[3.5] Going into psionics with Beguiler? (Too late?)

[Norin]

Hey all!

So i have a character ive been playing for a while now. He's a lvl 5 human beguiler going mindbender dip on lvl 6 (+mindsense feat). He's got improved init, Spell Focus illusion and enchantment as far as feats goes and Power word pain as my Advanced Learning spell.

It's all good and fun and on lvl 6 i get access to some pretty decent spells. I seem to lack a bit of options in combat though, and we do quite a bit of dungeon crawling. So far i have been trying to be a skillmonkey and BFC caster and shooting things with my shortbow or using my UMD on a magic missile wand.

Lately i looked into psionics and found it interesting and fun, so i was wondering if going for this progression would be an idea, of if i should just stick to beguiler casting and eventualy get my lvl 9 spells?



Beguiler
Beguiler
Beguiler
Beguiler
Beguiler
Mindbender
Psion
Psion
Psion
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
Cerebremancer
???



Looking at Psion as a class and the powers i get combined with the possibility to overchannel and augment powers, i really do not see a huge drawback in just being able to use lvl 7 powers by the time i end up on lvl 20. I was also thinking of going for Overchannel -> Talented and Practiced Manifester possibly.

The issue though is being "stuck" with lvl 8 Beguiler spells, missing out on awesome spells like Time Stop.

Of course the "rule" is to never set up a caster build that loses lvl 9, but wouldnt manifesting as a lvl 13 (ML 17 with Practiced manifester) psion on top of the lvl 16 Beguiler make me that more versatile?

Of course entry into this build should have been better and planned for manifesting/casting, but this is what i have to work with atm.

So, Yay or Nay to Psion/Cerebremancer progression on my Beguiler/Mindbender? Suggestions for a better build?

(Also what to put on lvl 20?)

[Ernir]

Power-wise, no, don't do it. Capitalizing on what you do have is going to serve you better than branching out this late. That character has missed the theurge train.


Of course the "rule" is to never set up a caster build that loses lvl 9, but wouldnt manifesting as a lvl 13 (ML 17 with Practiced manifester) psion on top of the lvl 16 Beguiler make me that more versatile?

If versatility is your concern, consider that the higher level spells you'd be missing out on are at any given level going to give you a broader power base than the lower level powers you'd be getting instead.

EDIT: The basic Beguiler level build I'd suggest is Beguiler 19/Mindbender 1.

[Norin]

I know what you mean, but then again, it's a bit about having a fun char to play from 5-15 too, not just what you miss out on at lvl 17-20 (is the campaign even going that far?).

Thanks for the reply though. It's more or less what i expected most people to say. :smallwink:

[Mnemnosyne]

At this point, if you want to add psionics to your build, your best bet is to use Ardent. Due to the funky way they gain their powers, and the order in which level advancement goes, you can do this:

Using a class that grants Knowledge (all skills), put at least 6 ranks into Knowledge (Psionics) ahead of time. You can do this during your Mindbender dip, for instance.
Go into Ardent at 9th level.
During step 6 of the level-up process, assign at least 4 skill points to Psicraft.
During step 7 of the level-up process, take the Practiced Manifester feat, since you now qualify due to the 4 points in psicraft.
During step 8 of the level-up process, choose powers. Since you took the Practiced Manifester feat and are thus now manifester level 5, and ardents can choose any power they're able to manifest, you can select your two powers as 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level powers from either of your selected mantles. Pick one 2nd level power.

Now you qualify for Cerebremancer, and can go into it at 10th level, advancing your manifesting and your spellcasting for the next 10 levels. You wind up with a manifester level of 15, thus allowing you to basically manifest as a 15th level Ardent, and spellcasting as a 19th level Beguiler. With Overchannel, you can increase your effective manifester level by 2. That means you can reach an effective manifester level of 17, which means that at level 20, you can take a single 9th level psionic power.

Granted, your psionics are always limited to the two initial mantles you chose, but if you use Substitute Powers from the Mind's Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a), you can probably get a really good set of power choices in your two mantles. You get a nice bit of manifesting at the cost of one caster level and two feats, and a little bit of MAD, because the Ardent's manifesting is based on Wisdom and not Intelligence. Still, it's pretty much the only way to add psionics to this character without gimping yourself.

The only question is, 'is doing this better than going straight Beguiler, or taking some other PrC?' You'll have to decide that, but it could in fact be pretty decent.

[Norin]

I like the idea, but my wis is unfortunately stuck at 12 for now. :smallannoyed:
And that gets expensive if i want to up it to something effective in that build.

[Ernir]

I know what you mean, but then again, it's a bit about having a fun char to play from 5-15 too, not just what you miss out on at lvl 17-20 (is the campaign even going that far?).

Thanks for the reply though. It's more or less what i expected most people to say. :smallwink:

Well, ask yourself whether having level 1 (Manifester Level 5-6, I'd guess) powers is going to be more fun than having a full new level of spells. At any level. It's not just about 17-20, the absolute level setback is the same regardless of where you measure it.

This subforum can be a massive echo chamber when it comes to popular charop advice, but really, there's a reason people are going to tell you it's a bad idea in this case. :smalltongue: