Mitigation vs. Hp

[GutterFace]

So ive been looking into playing a barbarian some time in the future. besides the Lion Totem variant which i am going to rule out.

i am torn between the regular core PHI Barbarian and the UA Whirling Frenzy barbarian.

now before i get too far into a deep build for this character i need some thoughts.

the regular core Barbarian gets + Str and + Con when in rage. the Whirling gets + Str and + dodge AC.

is it widely considered in D&D 3.5 that HP is better than AC?

[Piggy Knowles]

The HP boost scales automatically - as you gain more hit dice, you get more bonus HP.

The AC boost does not care what level you are; it's the same no matter how many HD you have.

Considering that most enemies have attack bonuses that scale with level, I find that the Con boost stays useful, while the AC bump doesn't.

[Cog]

AC is all or nothing; if you're willing to sink other resources into it, then the AC boost is better, but otherwise a Con boost is better.

The decision about Whirling Frenzy isn't about the defensive abilities, though; it's that tasty extra attack. Hard to pass that up, and that's why Whirling Frenzy is recommended so frequently.

[Piggy Knowles]

The decision about Whirling Frenzy isn't about the defensive abilities, though; it's that tasty extra attack. Hard to pass that up, and that's why Whirling Frenzy is recommended so frequently.

Yes, this. My post above was only about which is better defense, a static Con boost or a static AC boost. Whirling Frenzy is still the superior option offensively, though.

[Diarmuid]

The reason I like the WF barb better is that most DM's will say that when you go unconscious your rage ends.

After level 5 if you ever go unconscious while raging, you're dead due your Con being lower and having taken Max HP + 10 dmg taking you immediately to -10.

If your DM uses the normal duration for the Rage which might give your companions time to slap a heal on you, then regular could work.

[GutterFace]

all very good points. i loved the Whirling extra attack. the DM already ruled when your unconscious everything stops, rage, PP regeneration, etc.

So second weird question. since i get an extra attack when raged (WF babr) is this possible is i was going to do a throwing build?

throw Harpoon, quick draw, throw ax, rip our harpoon?

i cant remember the specifics of the Harpoon weapon, i remember you can tear it out for more damage?

[Slipperychicken]

all very good points. i loved the Whirling extra attack. the DM already ruled when your unconscious everything stops, rage, PP regeneration, etc.

So second weird question. since i get an extra attack when raged (WF babr) is this possible is i was going to do a throwing build?

throw Harpoon, quick draw, throw ax, rip our harpoon?

i cant remember the specifics of the Harpoon weapon, i remember you can tear it out for more damage?

Harpoons are in A&EG. I'm AFB, but I think the target has the option to rip it out of himself as a Full-Round action (or attack the rope), or else he's attached to it. I don't think there's RAW for pulling your own harpoon out of someone else.

[TroubleBrewing]

They're also in Stormwrack and Frostburn.

[GutterFace]

How odd that the recipient cant opt to pull it out but you cant rip it out. especially if you beat them in a strength check to "guide" them around....

[Slipperychicken]

How odd that the recipient cant opt to pull it out but you cant rip it out. especially if you beat them in a strength check to "guide" them around....

It would be pretty unbalanced. You'd essentially get two attacks for the price of one. But hey, you're getting some CC on your ranged attack, so it's not all bad.

[GutterFace]

It would be pretty unbalanced. You'd essentially get two attacks for the price of one. But hey, you're getting some CC on your ranged attack, so it's not all bad.

very true :)

[olejars]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can remove it [the harpoon] without damage with a heal check.

[GutterFace]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can remove it [the harpoon] without damage with a heal check.

wouldn't that make Heal a broken skill? if it is legal, cool. but otherwise i would always have Heal in class and fix myself post combat...right?

[tyckspoon]

wouldn't that make Heal a broken skill? if it is legal, cool. but otherwise i would always have Heal in class and fix myself post combat...right?

It gives Heal something useful to do, which is nice considering how thoroughly pointless it is compared to (very cheap) magic otherwise. I'm not sure why you would say that is a 'broken' skill, considering the harpoon still hit and did its damage- you aren't going to Heal back that HP with a skill check, you're just making sure you don't suffer extra damage when you take the spear out.

[TroubleBrewing]

Preventing secondary damage from harpoon extraction isn't what I'd call "useful". :smalltongue:

But it CERTAINLY isn't "broken", either.

[GutterFace]

It gives Heal something useful to do, which is nice considering how thoroughly pointless it is compared to (very cheap) magic otherwise. I'm not sure why you would say that is a 'broken' skill, considering the harpoon still hit and did its damage- you aren't going to Heal back that HP with a skill check, you're just making sure you don't suffer extra damage when you take the spear out.

i didn't mean broken like game breaking. but if the removal of a Harpoon and the damage that went along with it could be completely mitigated by a heal check that's pretty good. ive only ever seen/read that heal can stop bleeding, stabilize, and determine what caused death or the root of a poison/disease. ive never seen anything with Heal where it did anything super functional. but it would be awesome if it could.

Supposing is i had 5 ranks in Heal, Knowledge Nature, and 5 ranks of profession - herbologist. i could scrounge the wilderness for medicinal herbs to cure disease. ive never seen it done. so i dont know if it could work

[tyckspoon]

Supposing is i had 5 ranks in Heal, Knowledge Nature, and 5 ranks of profession - herbologist. i could scrounge the wilderness for medicinal herbs to cure disease. ive never seen it done. so i dont know if it could work

Actually Heal can already be used to treat poison and disease; if you're caring for a victim, they can use the result of your Heal check instead of their saving throw. Makes for a very effective way to handle disease, since they tend to have really low diseases relative to skill values, and more importantly you can Take 10 on the Heal check to avoid the risk of getting a really poor roll on your save. A net bonus of +8-10 or so will usually cover any use of this you might need, tho, so there still isn't much reason to sink a lot of points into Heal.