Please Critique my Sha'ir Binder

[tuesdayscoming]

I spent a few hours last night hashing out the build below. Nothing brilliant, but I think it would likely make for a fun character to play.

I'm currently not sure quite what to do with the last few levels/feats of the build. Currently, I have the last few levels dedicated to building up a counterspelling focus, but am not completely sold on doing so.

Any recommendations as to what would be a good way to finish off the build? Again, I'm open to stripping out the counterspells, thereby freeing up two or three feats and two class levels (for a total of three free).

note: This build uses the Apostle of the Green Lady prestige class, which is a variant of Tenebrous Apostate. The most meaningful difference between the two is that AotGL is full-casting, where TA loses a CL at 1st.

The build:

Race
Unseelie Fey Magic-Blooded Human

Class Progression
Sha'ir 1 / Binder 2 / Anima Mage 9 / Apostle of the Green Lady 5 / Sacred Exorcist 1 / Contemplative 1 / x 1

Feats
1 Versatile Spellcaster
H Extend Spell
3 Improved Vestige Binding
6 Persistent Spell
9 Ignore Special Requirement
2 Practiced Spellcaster
5 Divine Defiance
8 Arcane Mastery

Contemplative nets us the Inquisition domain (some book out there lists it as one of Wee Jas's)

[8wGremlin]

Yeah looks competent - i take it you've looked over my sha'ir binder builds?

Your not using the Turn Undead for anything other than counter-spelling and blasting undead with the displeasure of Wee-Jas (1d6 per effective cleric level)

You really need "Arcane Preparation" feat early, otherwise your spells drop out of your memory after 1 hour (sha'ir level)

good otherwise...

[Psyren]

1) Move ISR to H, Extend Spell to 6 and Persistent Spell to 9.
2) What are your stats (at 1 and at 20)? Sounds like your Cha will be pretty high.

[tuesdayscoming]

Yeah looks competent - i take it you've looked over my sha'ir binder builds?

Your not using the Turn Undead for anything other than counter-spelling and blasting undead with the displeasure of Wee-Jas (1d6 per effective cleric level)

You really need "Arcane Preparation" feat early, otherwise your spells drop out of your memory after 1 hour (sha'ir level)

good otherwise...

Yes, I have seen at least one of your builds. Honestly, it was a huge part of what convinced me to try this build out, so I thank you.

Honestly, though, I could never quite understand why you recommend Arcane Preparation in the first place. So long as your DM doesn't think that you lose the spell spot after a called spell fades, it seems to me that the ability to change spells around every hour is actually an asset. Am I missing something?

You are quite right that I could squeeze a bit more value out of my Turn uses. I'm really not sure what to do with them, though. Moreover, I'm not sure what here could reasonably be dropped to add another Turn use. Suggestions?


1) Move ISR to H, Extend Spell to 6 and Persistent Spell to 9.
2) What are your stats (at 1 and at 20)? Sounds like your Cha will be pretty high.

The only issue with shuffling the feats as you suggest would be that the build would be unable to use Vestige Metamagic to persist a spell as soon as it becomes available. The low-level vestiges don't generally seem to have terrible special requirements, and it seems to be that the benefit of a persistent spell at ECL 7 would outweigh the mild inconvenience of vestige requirements. I might be sorely mistaken, though.

As to stats, I'm not sure off-hand, but can post them when I get home. I will, though, be starting with an 18 Cha (before templates) and will be pumping Cha every 4 levels, unless something comes up.

[Gotterdammerung]

Honestly, though, I could never quite understand why you recommend Arcane Preparation in the first place. So long as your DM doesn't think that you lose the spell spot after a called spell fades, it seems to me that the ability to change spells around every hour is actually an asset. Am I missing something?

I kinda feel tha same way. I don't even see how sha'ir gets any benefit at all from arcane preparation. It isn't defined anywhere as a spontaneous spellcaster. It's spells are compared directly to a "wizard's prepared spell". I would question if sha'ir's even qualify for the feat.

But even if they qualify, I see nothing in the text of arcane preparation that would prevent the spell from leaving memory after hours/ sha'ir lvls. They alredy prepare a spell like a wizard and it still leaves, why would preparing it through a different source stop it from leaving?

I also agree, that a left spell doesn't count against a sha'ir's spells per day. It says "Like other spellcasters, a sha'ir can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell lvl per day."
The other section describes that a retrieved spell remains set until cast or until a number of hours equal to class level.

This defines the loss of the spell after the time limit as something other than "cast". And since spells per day is a specific limit on castings per day, losing a spell from the time limit does not mean losing a per day spell slot.


All in all, it is an interesting spellcaster, but I feel that the access to divine spells comes at an extremely prohibitive cost. You can only send the elemental out for 1 spell at a time. And since the divine retrieval takes an hour or two, by the time you have stocked your list with divine spells, the first retrievals are expiring.

[8wGremlin]

All in all, it is an interesting spellcaster, but I feel that the access to divine spells comes at an extremely prohibitive cost. You can only send the elemental out for 1 spell at a time. And since the divine retrieval takes an hour or two, by the time you have stocked your list with divine spells, the first retrievals are expiring.

Absolutely, the idea behind Arcane preparation, is that it states, that it stays in memory until cast.

You load up with some spells (divine or arcane), and have them "locked in" via Arcane Prep, this allows your other spells to fade if not cast, but still have these on call when you absolutely need them. cus sending your Gen off for a divine spell, and all of your 'in memory' spells fade away, before he gets back, is a pain in the arse if you get attacked.

With the above sha'ir he will only be able to keep anyspell in memory for just and hour!

[Psyren]

They are not spontaneous casters though and thus do not qualify for the feat. Their mode of preparation is unique, but is still preparation.

[Gotterdammerung]

Absolutely, the idea behind Arcane preparation, is that it states, that it stays in memory until cast.

You load up with some spells (divine or arcane), and have them "locked in" via Arcane Prep, this allows your other spells to fade if not cast, but still have these on call when you absolutely need them. cus sending your Gen off for a divine spell, and all of your 'in memory' spells fade away, before he gets back, is a pain in the arse if you get attacked.

With the above sha'ir he will only be able to keep anyspell in memory for just and hour!

But Arcane Preparation doesn't say it stays in memory until cast. Well at least the current version doesn't say that. You could use the outdated version from the tome of blood. But you wouldn't meet the prerequs for it with Sha'ir, because that version requires you be able to cast spells as a sorcerer or a bard.

The other versions don't say that. And sha'ir doesn't even meet the prerequs for any of those versions. He isn't a spontaneous caster.

So the feat doesn't lock in anything in 3.5 and sha'ir doesn't even make the prerequs for it in any edition.

[8wGremlin]

They are not spontaneous casters though and thus do not qualify for the feat. Their mode of preparation is unique, but is still preparation.

Conceded.

Sha'ir handbook really needs an update