Psychic warrior

[Macrus]

I found two different types of psychic warriors there's one in the psonics handbook and there's another one in the extended version. Which one of the two is better? Or does it even matter? I did note that there were a couple of differences between the two.

Macrus

[Daftendirekt]

Psionic Handbook = 3.0
Expanded Psionic Handbook = 3.5

Completely and utterly disregard the Psionic Handbook. Every last bit of it is nullified, made obsolete, and overridden by the 3.5 version.

[Fates]

The extended version is more recent, and thus that is the version you are supposed to use.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I found two different types of psychic warriors there's one in the psonics handbook and there's another one in the extended version. Which one of the two is better? Or does it even matter? I did note that there were a couple of differences between the two.

Macrus

The one in the book that's marked as "D&D 3.5 edition".

[Macrus]

Cool thank you very much

Marcus

[Rubik]

It's the *Expanded* Psionics Handbook.

Just, y'know, FYI.

And as mentioned, the 3.0 version is obsolete. Don't use it. Ever. Not even in a 3.0 only game. It's horrible, with a capital W-H-O-R-E.

[Psyren]

Rather than explain why 3.0 Psionics is terrible, much wittier minds (from the WotC boards) have done that for me:

I have used this model before, but to really appreciate how this "class feature" worked you should see how it would apply if ported to mainstream D&D where they haven't been conditioned to accept inferior mechanics without question. Lets take the big sacred moo, a Cleric's undead turning ability:

DM: "Before we get started, Cleric, I just want you to know that I am instituting some changes in your turn undead class feature that will make your class more different and give it a unique divine mechanic."

Player: "OK. How does it work now?"

DM: "Well, for starters, when you attempt to turn undead you will now have to burn a spell."

Player: "A spell???? What level?"

DM: "Different levels. It depends on what turning mode you want to use. Sanctified Gesture takes a level 1, Divine Dance of Power takes a level 2, High Holly Homina Homina takes a level 3, and...."

Player: "Wait, I assume I will get a bonus on the roll based on the level of spell slot I sacrifice?"

DM: "Sometimes you will. Other times you will get a penalty based on the turning defense mode the opponent selects. Turning and turning defense modes will interact on a table. The table determines the actual DC of the roll, not the level of the spell slot burned. Choosing a given defense mode may actually mean you pay a spell to get a penalty on the save, but it will still be better than being defenseless."

Player: "The undead will get defense modes?"

DM: "Sure, so will you. Each round you will select a turning attack mode and a defense mode. In fact, you will need to select a defense mode against each undead opponent each and every round and each will cost you spell slots."

Player: "Wwwwwwhat????!!!!!! What if I am facing undead who do not cast spells, I assume they won't get to mount a defense?"

DM: "It doesn't matter if you face undead without casting ability because their turning and turning defense modes are free."

Player: "Wait a minute! This is stupid! One of my 3rd level spell slots could be spent on Searing Light which fries undead; why would I ever spend it on an attack mode that might help me on a turning attempt? And why would I ever take a turning defense mode, much less a separate one vs. each undead opponent? I would simply choose to ignore undead or cast spells against them or go at them with weapons. I would have to have brain damage to choose to turn with these rules!"

DM: "If you fail to mount a defense then each unblocked undead gets a special +8 bonus to hit you for having this wonderful class feature and choosing not to use it. They also get to drain your stats if they hit. This will apply also to anyone who adds a level of Cleric; multiclassing will be very flavorful."

Player: "But I am a spellcaster, I need to be able to cast spells. How can I do my job if my spell slots get sucked away every time we run into undead?"

DM: "Well, how can you do your job if you are dead or reduced to a mindless state? You need to use your spells this way or you may not live long enough to cast them anyway."

Player: Head down, silently weeping into his hands.

DM: "I should mention too that you will be able to make turn undead attempts vs. nonundead; if you succeed they will be stunned for a few rounds. Of course, everyone who does not have this feature will get a huge bonus on the save DC. The best part: If you blow a 5th level spell to use High Holy Hokey Pokey then everyone in a large area could be stunned for a long while and they don't get a bonus vs. this one mode -- that makes the entire system usable and balanced."

Player: "They should all be stunned if they ever see me willingly use these rules. This is preposterous! I need my spells to heal and buff and perform all the functions of a Cleric. How am I going to be of any use to the party if I hemorrhage spell slots every time we run into undead?"

DM: "That is the beauty of it: You get to choose whether to use your spell slots as they were intended or save your own hide by using them to turn. Come on and at least give it a chance. It will be a mechanic unique to your class so it must be a benefit. You don't want to be just another spellcaster do you? This will add so much flavor and.... Hey! Get him off of me!"

Player: "How ya like that fist flavor?"

[WhatBigTeeth]

Plus the more basic problem where nothing scaled. You get a 3d6 damage power at level 3, and it just becomes more and more of a waste of space. You get a save-or-X at level 5, and its DC fades away in relevance.

And then those stat dependencies...

But 3.0 Soulknife was awesome.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Rather than explain why 3.0 Psionics is terrible, much wittier minds (from the WotC boards) have done that for me:

I have used this model before, but to really appreciate how this "class feature" worked you should see how it would apply if ported to mainstream D&D where they haven't been conditioned to accept inferior mechanics without question. Lets take the big sacred moo, a Cleric's undead turning ability:

DM: "Before we get started, Cleric, I just want you to know that I am instituting some changes in your turn undead class feature that will make your class more different and give it a unique divine mechanic."

Player: "OK. How does it work now?"

DM: "Well, for starters, when you attempt to turn undead you will now have to burn a spell."

Player: "A spell???? What level?"

DM: "Different levels. It depends on what turning mode you want to use. Sanctified Gesture takes a level 1, Divine Dance of Power takes a level 2, High Holly Homina Homina takes a level 3, and...."

Player: "Wait, I assume I will get a bonus on the roll based on the level of spell slot I sacrifice?"

DM: "Sometimes you will. Other times you will get a penalty based on the turning defense mode the opponent selects. Turning and turning defense modes will interact on a table. The table determines the actual DC of the roll, not the level of the spell slot burned. Choosing a given defense mode may actually mean you pay a spell to get a penalty on the save, but it will still be better than being defenseless."

Player: "The undead will get defense modes?"

DM: "Sure, so will you. Each round you will select a turning attack mode and a defense mode. In fact, you will need to select a defense mode against each undead opponent each and every round and each will cost you spell slots."

Player: "Wwwwwwhat????!!!!!! What if I am facing undead who do not cast spells, I assume they won't get to mount a defense?"

DM: "It doesn't matter if you face undead without casting ability because their turning and turning defense modes are free."

Player: "Wait a minute! This is stupid! One of my 3rd level spell slots could be spent on Searing Light which fries undead; why would I ever spend it on an attack mode that might help me on a turning attempt? And why would I ever take a turning defense mode, much less a separate one vs. each undead opponent? I would simply choose to ignore undead or cast spells against them or go at them with weapons. I would have to have brain damage to choose to turn with these rules!"

DM: "If you fail to mount a defense then each unblocked undead gets a special +8 bonus to hit you for having this wonderful class feature and choosing not to use it. They also get to drain your stats if they hit. This will apply also to anyone who adds a level of Cleric; multiclassing will be very flavorful."

Player: "But I am a spellcaster, I need to be able to cast spells. How can I do my job if my spell slots get sucked away every time we run into undead?"

DM: "Well, how can you do your job if you are dead or reduced to a mindless state? You need to use your spells this way or you may not live long enough to cast them anyway."

Player: Head down, silently weeping into his hands.

DM: "I should mention too that you will be able to make turn undead attempts vs. nonundead; if you succeed they will be stunned for a few rounds. Of course, everyone who does not have this feature will get a huge bonus on the save DC. The best part: If you blow a 5th level spell to use High Holy Hokey Pokey then everyone in a large area could be stunned for a long while and they don't get a bonus vs. this one mode -- that makes the entire system usable and balanced."

Player: "They should all be stunned if they ever see me willingly use these rules. This is preposterous! I need my spells to heal and buff and perform all the functions of a Cleric. How am I going to be of any use to the party if I hemorrhage spell slots every time we run into undead?"

DM: "That is the beauty of it: You get to choose whether to use your spell slots as they were intended or save your own hide by using them to turn. Come on and at least give it a chance. It will be a mechanic unique to your class so it must be a benefit. You don't want to be just another spellcaster do you? This will add so much flavor and.... Hey! Get him off of me!"

Player: "How ya like that fist flavor?"

That's just brilliant! :smallbiggrin:

[Yora]

All Psionics exept 3.5e are horrible.
It's a miracle how something so great could be made based on such a long and unbroken history of utter crap.

[TuggyNE]

All Psionics exept 3.5e are horrible.
It's a miracle how something so great could be made based on such a long and unbroken history of utter crap.

Also PF's version is quite nice, from what I know (due chiefly to being almost identical with minor bugfixes and tweaks).

But I think it's the old "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" thing. :smallwink:

[Draz74]

And I think 4e psionics are ok, within the context of 4e.

[Psyren]

And I think 4e psionics are ok, within the context of 4e.

They at least had the good sense to make monks psionic as a baseline. If I give no other compliments to 4e, they certainly deserve that one.

[Daftendirekt]

They at least had the good sense to make monks psionic as a baseline. If I give no other compliments to 4e, they certainly deserve that one.

Even though they didn't actually really get any psionic powers. They still just punched stuff for the most part... except they punched stuff VERY VERY WELL, unlike 3rd edition.

[Psyren]

Oh, they have powers... it's just that 4e descriptions (at least the ones I've read) tend to leave the fluff up to the players.

So if you want to imagine your monk's eyes flashing or hear a pealing gong in your mind when one performs Open The Gates of Battle, nothing stops you :smallsmile:

[Daftendirekt]

when one performs Open The Gates of Battle, nothing stops you :smallsmile:

For that, I always liked to picture Rock Lee dashing forward ready to kick some ass in Naruto. Speaking of, I've always wanted to recreate Rock Lee in D&D. He's my all-time favorite character from Naruto. Genius of Hard Work ftw.

[Psyren]

For that, I always liked to picture Rock Lee dashing forward ready to kick some ass in Naruto. Speaking of, I've always wanted to recreate Rock Lee in D&D. He's my all-time favorite character from Naruto. Genius of Hard Work ftw.

I'm 90% sure there's a Naruto d20 or Naruto PF conversion floating around these very boards. I know for sure there's one for Fairy Tail and Bleach.

[Daftendirekt]

I'm 90% sure there's a Naruto d20 or Naruto PF conversion floating around these very boards. I know for sure there's one for Fairy Tail and Bleach.

I know there's a Naruto d20 system floating around. I also know that it's HUGE and that the vast majority of that hugeness is due to statting up every single technique that had ever been seen in the show at the time the book was made. Rather intimidating to learn, and nobody I know IRL would want to play it (PbP not good enough for a game like that). So, I'll just optimize a (mostly)mundane PF monk/swordsage some time and get as close as i can to Rock Lee-ness with that.

[Karnith]

I know there's a Naruto d20 system floating around. I also know that it's HUGE and that the vast majority of that hugeness is due to statting up every single technique that had ever been seen in the show at the time the book was made. Rather intimidating to learn, and nobody I know IRL would want to play it (PbP not good enough for a game like that). So, I'll just optimize a (mostly)mundane PF monk/swordsage some time and get as close as i can to Rock Lee-ness with that.
I've read through (some of) that system, and not only is it really bogged down in trying to recreate every single thing in the series ever, but the mechanics of doing anything are pretty poorly-designed. Every technique you use requires multiple checks, not only to learn but also just use, and when everyone uses the stupid things every round, playing the game becomes a massive chore. I tried playing it once, when someone I knew had just found out about it, and never wanted to try it again.

Also, I know it goes against the spirit, but I've always preferred a tashalatora monk in trying to make a Rock-Lee-alike.