Reverse Malconvoker?

[silverwolfer]

what sort of badness could a Bad guy malconvoker do, when trying to summon angels and archons?

[ArcturusV]

Systematic Attrition against the powers of Good? I mean "EVIL" doesn't have the same requirements as "GOOD". You don't have Evil characters saying "You cease to be evil if you ever do a Good Act and don't get an atonement quest" and such. But Good tends to have that ingrained.

Shackle yourself up an Angel, Deva, Archon, etc. Use it to do indescribable evil, the sort of acts that thoroughly taint the soul in DnD and are so vile that no amount of denial or "I had no choice" necessarily removes them from your soul.

... release control of them. Watch them get sucked into the Abyss/Hell because they are thoroughly evil now and are another rank of the Fallen. Laugh and repeat process.

[Spuddles]

Systematic Attrition against the powers of Good? I mean "EVIL" doesn't have the same requirements as "GOOD". You don't have Evil characters saying "You cease to be evil if you ever do a Good Act and don't get an atonement quest" and such. But Good tends to have that ingrained.

Shackle yourself up an Angel, Deva, Archon, etc. Use it to do indescribable evil, the sort of acts that thoroughly taint the soul in DnD and are so vile that no amount of denial or "I had no choice" necessarily removes them from your soul.

... release control of them. Watch them get sucked into the Abyss/Hell because they are thoroughly evil now and are another rank of the Fallen. Laugh and repeat process.

Yeah, but wouldn't casting all those [Good] spells eventually make you Good?

[The Dark Fiddler]

Yeah, but wouldn't casting all those [Good] spells eventually make you Good?

Give them the ability to cast them and ignore the effects on their alignment from the spells.

You should be doing enough evil per spell that you overwhelm whatever hit you get for casting a [Good] spell, though.

[Psyren]

It would be a hell of a lot harder for one thing. Demons and Devils fighting internally or among themselves is nothing surprising - they hate each other almost as much as they do the forces of good, plus both sides revel in violence and brutality. But getting an Archon to take on even an Eladrin, much less other Archons, would require titanic levels of coercion/madness.

[Chilingsworth]

Also, if you're using [Summoning] rather than [Calling] spells, you've just garaunteed given the forces of good intell about your activities. Do this enough, you can expect a visit from a Celestial-led deathsquad with overwhelming superiority over you.

[silverwolfer]

Well according to lore, Archons hate eldrins almost as much as they hate demons.

[Telonius]

"Evil" is not exactly a monolithic thing. There are almost always factions. All you have to do is steer the archons to the lesser of two evils. Shoot down the petty thief, while the merchant who charges exorbitant prices is undisturbed. Kill a few goblins; their existence allows your evil Captain of the Guard to demand more funds to finance the proper defense of the kingdom. If you have an Evil rival, set the angels on him. Have an associate tempt the (usually-good) mayor, and set him up for some divine revelation and a fall from power. Your evil minions are waiting to take control as soon as he's out the door.

[Chilingsworth]

Well according to lore, Archons hate eldrins almost as much as they hate demons.

Where the heck did you get that from? :smallconfused:

Granted, there is a lawful outsider that looks kinda archon like, called (iirc) a justicator, that hates demons and eladrins equally (and likes devils and archons equally.) But, those are not archons.

[Psyren]

Well according to lore, Archons hate eldrins almost as much as they hate demons.

And what lore is that? Because BoED says no such thing.

[killem2]

Yeah, but wouldn't casting all those [Good] spells eventually make you Good?

Arcane will not have to worry about it. Divine, maybe, but the summon aspect of malconvoker clearly removes that penalty.


Yes, they can. Wizards themselves said that clearly in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, on page 98. I quote the relevant part.


(Remember that wizards of any alignment can cast spells with the evil descriptor without ill effects.)

The spell in question is dread word, which, iirc, allows you to use the very Dark Speech. It doesn't get any more evil than that. And yet, as said by WotC themselves, a lawful good wizard can cast it without repercussion. Sure, the spell effect itself will probably effect him, but not the fact that he is casting an [Evil] spell.