Is the Half Fey template irredeemably broken? [Archive]

Urpriest

2013-02-27, 03:40 PM

Infinite Charm person as a spell like ability.

Geas/Quest with no idea who is casting it.

Host of other abilities.

Within a few moments a half fey could be the trusted friend and ally of everyone in the room. And they would be largely unaware of it.

This seems *incredibly* powerful to me.

Geas/Quest is only at 15+HD and 1/day, at which point a caster could do similar things.

Charm Person at-will is a good deal better, and isn't accessible to Warlocks until later in the game. Still, remember that all of this is pegged to LA +2.

Deadline

2013-02-27, 03:43 PM

Not really. You can get the same/similar (and better) effects from both the Warlock class and Mindbender PrC class from Complete Arcane. The half-fey template isn't too bad for a +2 LA, which is a fairly steep price on most things that would want to take it (Casters).

Edit: Swordsaged by the Master of Monsters himself.

visigani

2013-02-27, 03:47 PM

Toliudar

2013-02-27, 03:47 PM

This is a perfect example of why it's important to use this rule:

A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.

Also, if using a SLA draws attacks of opportunity, it requires concentration and effort. If I'm chatting with you and abruptly have to stop talking while my eyelids flutter, either I've just **** myself or I've used a SLA.

Frozen_Feet

2013-02-27, 03:54 PM

It's not like you can't optimize Diplomacy to the point that you can reap similar benefits without magic at that point.

Also, non-humanoids scoff at Charm Person. So do humanoids with protection from [alignment].

Thrice Dead Cat

2013-02-27, 03:56 PM

Deadline

2013-02-27, 03:58 PM

The Warlock's Charm can only be on a single person per day.

Meanwhile I could conceivably cast charm person every six seconds. Assuming I slept eight hours... I could charm a little under 10k people a day...

Yes, but it is usable at will. And the Mindbender can choose to make the duration of a handful of his charms (and one dominate monster) permanent. Meanwhile, the half-fey can spend his entire day in a crowded area making almost everyone his friend (for 1 hour per level, so you won't be charming all those people unless you are higher level).

And the Bard with good ranks in Diplomacy is going to absolutely blow your mind, because he can do this to indifferent non-humanoids all day, without using spells. All he needs to do is hit a DC 15 Diplomacy check. (Charm Person makes an NPC Friendly to you, same as the skill check - it's just easier to use the spell on hostile or unfriendly targets).

Edit: I'm not saying it isn't useful, but it's far from broken.

Edit2: Sorry if my post sounds overly snarky, it wasn't intended to be hurtful. I'm just surprised that you seem to think this is broken when the Diplomacy rules are way, way more useful. Have you had many experiences with Charm Person breaking your game? I haven't, and that's informing my opinion on how strong/weak the template is.

visigani

2013-02-27, 04:20 PM

This is a perfect example of why it's important to use this rule:

Also, if using a SLA draws attacks of opportunity, it requires concentration and effort. If I'm chatting with you and abruptly have to stop talking while my eyelids flutter, either I've just **** myself or I've used a SLA.

That's the thing though, it's a purely mental action. I don't have to be interacting with you at all. I just have to see you, think about it, fluttery eyes and all... I can charm person my way right up to the King.... or at least get myself in the presence of the king, simply dressed as a servant even.

And now I am the king's trusted friend and ally.
http://www.disneyvillains.net/images/Jafar.jpg

Deadline

2013-02-27, 04:30 PM

That's the thing though, it's a purely mental action. I don't have to be interacting with you at all. I just have to see you, think about it, fluttery eyes and all... I can charm person my way right up to the King.... or at least get myself in the presence of the king, simply dressed as a servant even.

Assuming you Charm the right person, sure. Also note that using a Spell-like ability provokes an attack of opportunity, so while it doesn't require any components, it isn't "undetectable".

And now I am the king's trusted friend and ally.

Yes (assuming he doesn't have spell resistance, is humanoid in type, and fails the will save), which means he "Wishes you well", and will possibly "chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate" with/for you. You can attempt opposed Charisma checks (with no retries) to force him to do something he doesn't want to do. And you are going to find yourself facing down some fairly well-trained guardsmen that will do their best to flay you alive eventually. (Eventually someone will save against your constant charming, or will simply have the duration expire, and if you've been up to shenanigans you will not be charming for long).

Edit: And again the Bard wins this round, as a successful Diplomacy check isn't mind control or compulsion, it's just working your way into their good graces legitimately. So an hour after you Diplomacy up the king, he'll probably still think you are a great guy.

Karnith

2013-02-27, 04:31 PM

That's the thing though, it's a purely mental action. I don't have to be interacting with you at all. I just have to see you, think about it, fluttery eyes and all... I can charm person my way right up to the King.... or at least get myself in the presence of the king, simply dressed as a servant even.

And now I am the king's trusted friend and ally.
http://www.disneyvillains.net/images/Jafar.jpg
Being Jafar aside, your targets still need to fail their saves. And not be immune to mind-affecting effects. And be humanoids. And not notice that you're using your spell-like abilities. And then you'd need to keep the charm person going all the time. And even then they're only charmed; they won't do outrageous things for you, and you need to win an opposed charisma check to get them to do anything they wouldn't usually do. A mid-level psion or wilder could essentially do the same trick, if one so wished to do so.

Half-fey is a fine template, and charm person a fine spell, but there's nothing broken about it.

Phelix-Mu

2013-02-27, 04:43 PM

Ditto on the general sentiment. The 1/day or other limited SLAs higher up are more broadly useful, particularly on the duration front, especially in when they complement a caster that normally can't access such effects easily (druid or dread necro or something else that lacks the mind-controlling stuff).

Finally, LA+2 is a significant downside for any high tier class, where each level of class contains significant power increase. If the DM isn't offering buyback, this probably isn't the best idea unless you are starting at high-level and have a good idea that mind-affecting stuff is going to be useful.

Autopsibiofeeder

2013-02-27, 05:44 PM

Assuming you Charm the right person, sure. Also note that using a Spell-like ability provokes an attack of opportunity, so while it doesn't require any components, it isn't "undetectable".

I wouldn't say that makes it detectable. It just causes you to be forced to lower your guard if you don't make a sufficiently high concentration check when threatened by someone with a melee weapon.

Zanthy1

2013-02-27, 05:51 PM

Just a quick question, where can I find said Half-Fey template?

Autopsibiofeeder

2013-02-27, 05:52 PM

In the Fiend Folio, if memory serves me well.

Karnith

2013-02-27, 05:57 PM

In the Fiend Folio, if memory serves me well.
It does indeed; Half-Fey is in the Fiend Folio, on page 89.

Also, since we're talking about the template, does anyone else find it odd that they get glitterdust usable as a spell-like ability before they get sleep? Glitterdust becomes available at 1 HD, while it takes 3 HD to get sleep. Both are usable once per day, so there isn't even an issue of sleep being usable more times or something.

Flickerdart

2013-02-27, 06:05 PM

It's also available online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

nedz

2013-02-27, 06:52 PM

It's also available online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

Well, technically that's a different thing, but it amounts to the same.

This whole argument though reminds me of the "Warlocks are broken because they can do their invocations at will." position. This isn't true because there are only so many rounds in a day where you can usefully do something.

It is also the case, with Half Fey, that their SLAs are mainly enchantments. Enchantments are very weak because immunity to enchantment is very common.

visigani

2013-02-27, 11:22 PM

Phelix-Mu

2013-02-27, 11:34 PM

Except immunity to enchantment *isn't* common. It's common to adventurers. Is everyone at the King's Court wearing Rings of Protection from Evil? Do they all have mind blank cast on them?

How many humans in a given city do you think have twenty four hour protection from charm person?

Consider the immense power you'd wield just from being able to make pretty much anyone and everyone your friend for just an hour each day.

So, how are we measuring power? I think you could get to be pretty powerful in the sense that Jesus was powerful, i.e., make people believe that you are nice and friendly.

All your friends won't stop the orc invasion, probably won't all write you into their wills, not gonna fight for you (and even if they did, the average person is practically useless in actual combat in any sense beyond taking up space).

All your friends will help you with reasonable requests, use skills and such for you, do things that require minimal investments of time/money, and they may help spread false info or generally be more able to help with some kind of crowd-sourced disinformation campaign.

Moreover, think of the risks you run always charming everyone and their cousin. Say someone saves and recognizes what you are doing, or somehow word of your tactic reaches the ears of good-aligned churches. The non-normal people with moral qualms are going to look poorly on your behavior, and employ countermeasures, like hanging up pictures of you around with warnings, posting guards with prot. from evil in public places and popular gathering spots. Lots of powerful people/beings have a vested interest in making sure single individuals aren't imposing their will on entire populations.

In short, with enough overuse, any strategy tends to develop an Achilles' heal of the sort that is proportional to the overuse. If charm is your thing, expect that, over time, charm becomes less useful, as reality adjusts itself. This should already be clear in that half-fey don't rule entire settings or nations, as would often be the case with many world-shaking mechanics.

Talentless

2013-02-27, 11:34 PM

It's common to adventurers. Is everyone at the King's Court wearing Rings of Protection from Evil? Do they all have mind blank cast on them?

Uh... unless they have already been mindraped and put under control of some other caster, you're damned right they do.

Realize that the King, and his Court Nobles, should all have a theoretical yearly income equivalent to around a 5-6th level adventurer's WBL. Not to mention ancestral magic equipment that they pass down to their children.

At least, they all SHOULD if the game wants to keep any semblance of the kind of society it was modeled with, the Medieval Ages of Europe. Where the Kings and Nobles had all the best equipment, food and well, everything worth having (except for good marriages and paranoia free lives... but that is a different subject).

visigani

2013-02-27, 11:37 PM

Uh... unless they have already been mindraped and put under control of some other caster, you're damned right they do.

Realize that the King, and his Court Nobles, should all have a theoretical yearly income equivalent to around a 5-6th level adventurer's WBL. Not to mention ancestral magic equipment that they pass down to their children.

At least, they all SHOULD if the game wants to keep any semblance of the kind of society it was modeled with, the Medieval Ages of Europe. Where the Kings and Nobles had all the best equipment, food and well, everything worth having (except for good marriages and paranoia free lives... but that is a different subject).

There's many different magical enchantments... many much more useful in day to day life.

Phelix-Mu

2013-02-27, 11:40 PM

There's many different magical enchantments... many much more useful in day to day life.

Actually, if you are in charge or want to be in charge, then worrying about mental manipulation should be high on your list of concerns, as is any other kind of "invisible threat." I can see where the court nobles might not all be hip to this, but for a king not to employ some kind of ability to avoid magical influence, then it would have to be a very small or very poor kingdom, or some kind of other situational circumstance (like maybe low-magic area or kingdom where all magic was treated with fear and superstition...extending to items...such a kingdom would not last long without some other huge advantage).

Worira

2013-02-27, 11:41 PM

Major political figures not having protection from mind-affecting spells in DnD would be amazingly foolish. To think that the king, in particular, wouldn't regularly be protected from magic that can influence his decisions without people noticing is absurd.

EDIT: and then ninjas

Urpriest

2013-02-28, 01:04 AM

Is your worry what players can do, or the effect on the setting?

If the former, as others have pointed out, the people the players are interested in controlling will likely be protected, and charm doesn't give them all that much control past what you could get with a good diplomacy.

If the latter, and you're worried about NPCs doing this, remember this is the sort of thing the fey are supposed to be able to do. How many fey are you aware of in fiction who are limited in the number of people they can charm per day?

nedz

2013-02-28, 07:46 AM

Deadline

2013-02-28, 10:08 AM

Consider the immense power you'd wield just from being able to make pretty much anyone and everyone your friend for just an hour each day.

I'm not sure you and I are using the same definition of that word, unless you just mean "widespread". I'm sure you've read what the Charm Person spell does, just how potent do you think it is? Because as has been pointed out, it isn't Dominate. Heck, it isn't even Suggestion. It just feels like there is a disconnect here with regards to how powerful a first level spell is.

Karnith

2013-02-28, 10:19 AM

Moreover, spamming Charm Person isn't going to make everyone your friend; pretty much anyone worth Charming is going to be a powerful person in their own right, which means higher class levels, better gear, and hence better saves. Charm Person is a first level spell, and having it as a spell-like ability means that there's not much that you'll be able to do to boost its save DC, so they'll need to make a will save at 11 + your Cha modifier. That's not terribly difficult, and the moment someone makes their saving throw they'll know that someone's trying to mess around with them, and take appropriate action.

You'll be able to make commoners love you, sure, but they're commoners. They aren't very useful, and you could just hire them for a few silver pieces per day if you wanted. Some other low-level characters will probably fail the save, too, but they're low-level characters. Pretty much anyone worth having as a friend is going to be highly resistant, if not outright immune, to this tactic.

awa

2013-02-28, 12:08 PM

another thing to consider charm immunity is extremely cheap with several spells being either extremely low level area of effect or having very long durations. not to mention many monsters have the ability at will.

So it should be pretty high on the list of immunities to acquire

Amphetryon

2013-02-28, 02:14 PM

The OP's concerns over the power of Charm Person appear from here predicated on a majority of powerful folks not knowing that such abilities exist and have defenses available, in a world where such abilities are relatively common. Though not everyone chooses to play it as such (and there are some odd issues as it pertains to wealth), the default D&D 3.X universe is a High Magic setting, with all the awareness which that entails.

When assassination by poisoning or gunfire is a credible threat, people of means in position to worry about it take steps to minimize that threat as they see fit. When assassination by Charm Person is a credible threat, one should expect a similar response.

lunar2

2013-02-28, 05:09 PM

and this is why the entire throne room is covered in a giant AMF, with traps of prismatic ray in the corners that shoot anyone targeting the king with a hostile action of any sort.

Karnith

2013-02-28, 05:13 PM

Phelix-Mu

2013-02-28, 07:00 PM

and this is why the entire throne room is covered in a giant AMF, with traps of prismatic ray in the corners that shoot anyone targeting the king with a hostile action of any sort.

Alternately, the king is himself a powerful spellcaster, astral projecting with his usual sundry wards and protections up about himself.

While I agree that pretty much every king should be cautious and aware of magic and thus employ countermeasures, not every kingdom could/should be ruled by someone with a bunch of class levels or employing very sophisticated magical defenses. Are the biggest, richest kingdoms this cool? Surely, but there are likely also poor, small kingdoms with much more modest capabilities.

Half-fey would be pretty cool on an alternate race Insidious Corrupter. Always loved that PrC, and it's heavy focus on enchantment and existing loss of caster levels might make it easier to swallow some more in exchange for more flexible charm/manipulation abilities, not to mention the stat bonuses from the template. Unseelie fey is probably more to the point, though.

Karnith

2013-02-28, 07:30 PM

While I agree that pretty much every king should be cautious and aware of magic and thus employ countermeasures, not every kingdom could/should be ruled by someone with a bunch of class levels or employing very sophisticated magical defenses.
Why not? In a world where magic and casters not only exist, but are common, it would make sense that the people with power (magic) in the world would be the ones in control. Lords and rulers get appointed/take power because of their ability to project power, both over their people and against enemies. In our (Earth) history, this generally ended up being people who commanded armies and/or were wealthy. In D&D worlds, though, it's going to be the powerful spellcasters who get the nod, because they have world-shattering powers on their own. This isn't even taking into account the difficulties involved in keeping power when practically every spellcaster is going to have access to many ways to disturb the proper functioning of the kingdom (like, say, the charm person shenanigans brought up in this very thread).

Think of it as something like survival of the fittest - the rulers who don't have a way to deal with magical efforts to take power from them are the ones who are going to lose. Either magic-users are going to become the people in power, because those without magic won't be able to resist them, or people in power are going to become magic-users.

EDIT: I was being facetious about the king astral projecting etc., but even mid-level spellcasters are going to have substantial capabilities thanks to their spells and will not only have the means to take over a kingdom (except, perhaps, one run by a stronger spellcaster), but will also have any number of ways to magically protect themselves once in power.

Flickerdart

2013-02-28, 08:59 PM

Are the biggest, richest kingdoms this cool? Surely, but there are likely also poor, small kingdoms with much more modest capabilities.
Not really, since any caster who feels like having a kingdom now can just come and kick out the current rulers of such kingdoms with no effort, installing their own, competent defenses. If your government can be undermined by a 1st level spell, it won't be around for long.

Phelix-Mu

2013-02-28, 09:08 PM

Not really, since any caster who feels like having a kingdom now can just come and kick out the current rulers of such kingdoms with no effort, installing their own, competent defenses. If your government can be undermined by a 1st level spell, it won't be around for long.

The quotes that I cited were rather in excess of what one would need to avoid a charm spell. I was just pointing out that not every king or kingdom needs to be so thoroughly kitted out. Protection from evil or low-level abjurations? Sure. AMF/prismatic ray trap? Surely not everywhere.

And, well, while we are at it, many kingdoms exist not by their own power, but through some historical happenstance, as some relic of the past, or the convenience of their neighboring kingdoms, or some such setting justification. Even if there is tons of magic in the world, in the standard D&D setting, not every land is ruled by wizards and clerics, or their direct proxies (as would likely be the eventual case with a survival of the fittest scenario). Is this realistic? Not particularly, but setting flavor doesn't always need to be realistic in a fantasy game.

The DM need not build every king or person of means into some kind of anti-PC device, with tricks to thwart every plan that might come up. Under the theory that characters are exceptional individuals in the game world (a theory I don't totally subscribe to), maybe this one kingdom will fall under a simple magical assault by the PCs, as no one but the PCs have ever tried.

None of what I just said at all invalidates the general consensus that half-fey is not broken or that charm person at will is not a kingmaker ability.

123456789blaaa

2013-02-28, 10:23 PM

Why not? In a world where magic and casters not only exist, but are common, it would make sense that the people with power (magic) in the world would be the ones in control. Lords and rulers get appointed/take power because of their ability to project power, both over their people and against enemies. In our (Earth) history, this generally ended up being people who commanded armies and/or were wealthy. In D&D worlds, though, it's going to be the powerful spellcasters who get the nod, because they have world-shattering powers on their own. This isn't even taking into account the difficulties involved in keeping power when practically every spellcaster is going to have access to many ways to disturb the proper functioning of the kingdom (like, say, the charm person shenanigans brought up in this very thread).

Think of it as something like survival of the fittest - the rulers who don't have a way to deal with magical efforts to take power from them are the ones who are going to lose. Either magic-users are going to become the people in power, because those without magic won't be able to resist them, or people in power are going to become magic-users.

EDIT: I was being facetious about the king astral projecting etc., but even mid-level spellcasters are going to have substantial capabilities thanks to their spells and will not only have the means to take over a kingdom (except, perhaps, one run by a stronger spellcaster), but will also have any number of ways to magically protect themselves once in power.

The problem with this is that almost the entire DnD setting is arbritrary and honestly makes no sense when you think about it. Once you change one part because it doesn't make sense that leads to changing the others until you've got a very very different setting that lots of people don't want to play in.

Karnith

2013-02-28, 11:05 PM

The problem with this is that almost the entire DnD setting is arbritrary and honestly makes no sense when you think about it. Once you change one part because it doesn't make sense that leads to changing the others until you've got a very very different setting that lots of people don't want to play in.
Well, I personally like playing in that kind of setting, but that was my point, yes. On the upside, the existence of such a world makes dealing with charm person at will pretty easy.

visigani

2013-03-01, 12:43 AM

Well, I personally like playing in that kind of setting, but that was my point, yes. On the upside, the existence of such a world makes dealing with charm person at will pretty easy.

Casters are everywhere? In a small town the highest level caster you're going to find is I want to say level 7.... and the most massive of cities you're still topping out at lvl 16 Maximum of four. In a population of 25,000 or more.

Flickerdart

2013-03-01, 01:04 AM

Casters are everywhere? In a small town the highest level caster you're going to find is I want to say level 7.... and the most massive of cities you're still topping out at lvl 16 Maximum of four. In a population of 25,000 or more.
A level 7 caster can raise the dead, transform into horrifying beasts, crush the will out of his enemies with a single word, cure any disease and poison, fly, call celestials or unicorns to his aid, see things at great distances, or simply kill with a single spell. The vast majority of problems that people face can be both caused and solved by a caster who is "merely" seventh level.

Togo

2013-03-01, 08:39 AM

Autopsibiofeeder

2013-03-01, 09:12 AM

I think the template is too cheap. It's notably better than similar templates for the same cost, and gives spell-like abilities that scale, stat bosts, immunity to enchantment and flight. Make it a +3 or +4 and it fits in better with existing templates in terms of power.

Perhaps +3. I think Half-celestial/fiend is better, especially in the attribute department (but also the hit point and skill point bit).

Karnith

2013-03-01, 09:16 AM

Casters are everywhere? In a small town the highest level caster you're going to find is I want to say level 7.... and the most massive of cities you're still topping out at lvl 16 Maximum of four. In a population of 25,000 or more.
Actually, using the DMG's demographics, in small towns you're going to top out with (at best) 6th level clerics and druids, and 4th level wizards and sorcerers. In a large town (2,001+ people), however, you'll top out with 9th-level clerics and druids, and 7th-level wizards and sorcerers. In small cities (5,001+ people) it's 12th-level clerics/druids, and 10th-level wizards/sorcerers (and there are double the number of them), in large cities (12,001+ people) it's 15th-level clerics/druids and 13th-level sorcerers/wizards (and there are triple the normal number of them), and in a metropolis (25,001+ people) it's 18th-level clerics/druids and 16th-level sorcerers/wizards (and there's quadruple the normal number). And remember that's only the highest-level caster; for each one, there are twice as many casters of half that level, and ditto for those casters, all the way down the line. And at the very least, every single small town is going to have one bard, one cleric, one druid, one sorcerer, and one wizard.

That's a lot of casters, and any one of them that is mid-to-high-level is going to be capable of taking over a kingdom that isn't protected against magic. Obviously not every one will, but unless magic is brand new in your world, or unless there just aren't high-level characters, a lot of people are going to have tried it before.

Perhaps +3. I think Half-celestial/fiend is better, especially in the attribute department (but also the hit point and skill point bit).
+3 is probably fine; a level adjustment of +3 is going to be a pretty huge handicap for anyone who would want to play a half-fey anyway.

Zero grim

2013-03-01, 09:53 AM

With regards to kingdoms having the ability to magically protect themselves I think its fair to say that a king will have at least a handful of low level adepts.
all the king has to do is get covered by a protection from chaos (seems more fitting to me) whenever he has a meeting and just make sure he doesn't talk for too long, even a bunch of level 1 adepts can achieve that.

also while your ability to charm people at will from the half-fey template is nice, its never really going to be unnoticed unlace you have good ranks in disguise or more magic to hide your big butterfly wings.

Flickerdart

2013-03-01, 11:23 AM

I think the template is too cheap. It's notably better than similar templates for the same cost, and gives spell-like abilities that scale, stat bosts, immunity to enchantment and flight. Make it a +3 or +4 and it fits in better with existing templates in terms of power.
Most templates are grossly over-valued to the point of uselessness. Half-fey is actually competitive with two class levels.

Zombulian

2013-03-01, 11:24 AM

I apologize if someone's already brought this up, I didn't have time to read all the way through.
But a level 11 DFA can use Charm at will, as well as Geas at will - as a standard action.

lunar2

2013-03-01, 04:19 PM

The quotes that I cited were rather in excess of what one would need to avoid a charm spell. I was just pointing out that not every king or kingdom needs to be so thoroughly kitted out. Protection from evil or low-level abjurations? Sure. AMF/prismatic ray trap? Surely not everywhere.

And, well, while we are at it, many kingdoms exist not by their own power, but through some historical happenstance, as some relic of the past, or the convenience of their neighboring kingdoms, or some such setting justification. Even if there is tons of magic in the world, in the standard D&D setting, not every land is ruled by wizards and clerics, or their direct proxies (as would likely be the eventual case with a survival of the fittest scenario). Is this realistic? Not particularly, but setting flavor doesn't always need to be realistic in a fantasy game.

The DM need not build every king or person of means into some kind of anti-PC device, with tricks to thwart every plan that might come up. Under the theory that characters are exceptional individuals in the game world (a theory I don't totally subscribe to), maybe this one kingdom will fall under a simple magical assault by the PCs, as no one but the PCs have ever tried.

None of what I just said at all invalidates the general consensus that half-fey is not broken or that charm person at will is not a kingmaker ability.

did i mention the 6 iron golems also in said throne room? and the energy drain trap that bypasses the AMF and hits anyone who touches the king?

this was from an actual campaign, and i really did need that level of defenses to keep the king alive with this party. essentially, if it existed (even if it's not statted) they would try to kill it. and this wasn't even supposed to be a political campaign, it was an arena campaign that somehow left the arena.

nedz

2013-03-01, 04:56 PM

The thing with the Half Fey template, and the LA +2, is that most high tier classes lose more than they gain, but it can be a reasonable choice for lower tier builds.

The usual complaint with the Half Fey template is that you get fly very early. This is fixable if you use the Savage Species racial classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), and delay the acquisition of the second level until maybe 6th.

Because this template scales with level it probably shouldn't be used with LA buy off, but that's just my view.