good mount for an crossbow sniper?

[Soranar]

As the title says, I'm designing a crossbow swift hunter build but I can't think of what kind of mount he should be riding.

Might try to make a small character to let him ride a medium mount everywhere, was thinking of using wild cohort to get the mount since I'm multiclassing and a ranger's animal companion is fragile to begin with.

The mount wouldn't be a fighter and I'd concentrate on movement and survivability over fighting capacity (since the point is to stay away from enemies)

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, so I'm not sure it's a good starting idea, but a nice trick would be to place some kind of armoured wagon with arrow slits atop an elephant. If you combine it with some form of teleport (ToB shadow hand can get you some of this), this might be a cool option at high levels. Get the elephant goggles of darkvision and go around with a big darkness effect on top of the elephant. Now get a crossbow sight of true seeing or something like that, now you can see through the darkness. Put some boots of silence or something on the elephant, and there you go, headshot gundam, D&D style.

At low-levels, selection is much more limited. Shooting from the back of some wagon may still be a cool idea, you'd have to figure out the wheels issue, but thankfully there's always magic (levitated wagon or something).

EDIT: The teleport effect would stop you from getting stuck in the armoured wagon/box atop the elephant, and lack of a door would make getting into the box much harder.

I really like your concept. Good luck

[Daftendirekt]

As the title says, I'm designing a crossbow swift hunter

A mount's movement does not count towards triggering Skirmish damage.

[Soranar]

A mount's movement does not count towards triggering Skirmish damage.

what? Just reread the description, I don`t see that anywhere. As long as I move 10ft+ skirmish should trigger no?

[Daftendirekt]

As long as I move 10ft+ skirmish should trigger no?

Yes. As long as YOU move. Not your mount. I tried a mounted skirmisher a while ago and asked in this forum for help, and got this answer. I didn't remember the exact source, so I googled it just now. CAdv errata (http://www.robsworld.org/3ecampaign/3.5%20Errata/CompleteAdventurer_Errata08022005.pdf). Bam.

"The skirmish ability
cannot be used while mounted"

[Soranar]

Yes. As long as YOU move. Not your mount. I tried a mounted skirmisher a while ago and asked in this forum for help, and got this answer. I didn't remember the exact source, so I googled it just now. CAdv errata (http://www.robsworld.org/3ecampaign/3.5%20Errata/CompleteAdventurer_Errata08022005.pdf). Bam.

"The skirmish ability
cannot be used while mounted"

And there goes my build. Good to know

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Might be worth asking your DM about, on the basis that there's a long history of people on mounts shooting while constantly in motion. Parthian shots, Cantabrian circles and caracole volleys come to mind. You could offer to give up or reduce your skirmish while unmounted in exchange, perhaps.

[Daftendirekt]

I personally think it's a dumb rule. I don't know why it should matter whether it's your legs or a horse's legs that are doing the moving. Talk to your DM about it, he may agree on its BS nature and let you do it anyway.

So, under the assumption that you're given permission to do this, let's continue.

Wild Cohort is definitely the best method of getting a mount that won't be instakilled. Even with Natural Bond, your Ranger animal companion will still be a few levels behind due to your scout levels (under the assumption you do the optimal Scout4/ranger16 or 5/15). You could do something as simple as a riding dog/wolf or a horse (depending on character size). Possibly ask your DM about better mounts at higher levels, like maybe a griffon or something.


Might be worth asking your DM about, on the basis that there's a long history of people on mounts shooting while constantly in motion. Parthian shots, Cantabrian circles and caracole volleys come to mind. You could offer to give up or reduce your skirmish while unmounted in exchange, perhaps.

Genghis Khan's hordes... I heard they had some success with the whole "mounted archery" thing. :smallwink:

[Soranar]

Might be worth asking your DM about, on the basis that there's a long history of people on mounts shooting while constantly in motion. Parthian shots, Cantabrian circles and caracole volleys come to mind. You could offer to give up or reduce your skirmish while unmounted in exchange, perhaps.

Nah, I'm a heavy optimizer (and our group's rule-lawyer, cause no one else wants to do it) so I'll just have to adjust. Wanted to make something different than a simple archer build, I'll just have to think of something else.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm, I wonder about a loophole....

"Mounted" is a pretty specific game term. As long as you personally have enough room to move around under your own power, I don't see why you couldn't also be on top of a creature of significant size.

Still won't allow you to skirmish with a full attack, as seems to be the intent of the errata, but I'm not quite seeing how the rule prevents you from, say, running around atop a moving carpet of flying of sufficient size.

The full attack + skirmish fix is substantially more complicated, as it requires a second 5' step or monk levels and the 10' step granted by sparring dummy of the master item from Arms and Equipment Guide (a 3.0 source).

I think if you google "D&D 3.5 free movement" you'll get some hits. Member Person Man wrote a very impressive post on mobility on some other thread a week or two ago. It went into Travel Devotion and other means of swift movement/free movement. Very useful.

[Daftendirekt]

Nah, I'm a heavy optimizer (and our group's rule-lawyer, cause no one else wants to do it) so I'll just have to adjust. Wanted to make something different than a simple archer build, I'll just have to think of something else.

If you're looking for a less-than-usual archer build, could always go for extreme distance instead of extreme maneuverability:

-Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild, 3.0 but un-updated)
-Cragtop Archer (Races of Stone)
-Peerless Archer (Silver Marches)

Check those out, add Ranger/Fighter as desired.


The full attack + skirmish fix is substantially more complicated

It's really not. Travel Devotion solves the whole thing.

[Soranar]

Well I was rereading the swift hunter feat and it doesn't actually say you need a ranger level, just a favored enemy. And a lot of Paladin initiate feats grant a favored enemy so I might just do that and use the turn undead to fuel travel devotion. Also saves me from taking all those mounted combat feats required for mounted archery

[Daftendirekt]

Well I was rereading the swift hunter feat and it doesn't actually say you need a ranger level, just a favored enemy. And a lot of Paladin initiate feats grant a favored enemy so I might just do that and use the turn undead to fuel travel devotion. Also saves me from taking all those mounted combat feats required for mounted archery

Now there is a path I never thought of (mostly because I'm rather unfamiliar with initiate feats). Kudos.

[Phelix-Mu]

It's really not. Travel Devotion solves the whole thing.

I did kind of contradict myself in the space of a couple sentences, didn't I. Oh well.:smallamused:

Halfling monk substitution level 1st gets skirmish 1d6 in exchange for flurry, plus 6+Int skill points and smaller HD, everything else standard monk. Might help with early acquisition of Swift Hunter, but you have to be a halfling.... Hehe. Somewhat silly suggestion, but your mention of Swift Hunter alternate qualifying brought it to mind.

[Daftendirekt]

I'm not seeing Initiate feats anywhere that grant Favored Enemy though. Where are they?

[Soranar]

I'm not seeing Initiate feats anywhere that grant Favored Enemy though. Where are they?

it's substution levels actually, most are in the book champion of valor (1 in the web enhancement)

I thought they were initiate feats cause those are also in that book.