Lolth-Touched Help please!

[gurgleflep]

Hello everybody :smallsmile:
I need a bit of help with the Lolth-Touched Template. It seems like a reasonable template, but I'm wondering if there's a save or anything against the forced alignment change. There isn't a save against it from what I've seen, but is there a way I could prevent it?

Also, it says it can't be added to lawful or good characters, but nothing race wise. Shouldn't it just be for the drow, spiders, and various other followers of said deity.

I'm sorry if this all seems a bit confusing in wording.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

As a DM you'd be welcome to rule that way. As it stands, it's not racially restricted and immediately turns the beneficiary CE.

[gurgleflep]

How would I go about making a save? I'd imagine it would be a will save, but what would they have to beat?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Are you a DM reworking the template for use by your players?

[gurgleflep]

Yes I am. We've not started said campaign, we'll be making characters on our next game day (we were meant to start a while back, but we've had some wonked out weather), and the party orc's arguing between it and the Eye of Gruumsh template, leaning more towards LT because it's the less expected of the two.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think the intent was for Lolth to bless one of her followers/minions by granting them the template. Using it on unwilling critters might undermine her reason for using it (to gain stronger minions), and Will save is a terrible way to model rejecting the goddess' blessing. Not to mention, those that reject the blessing, in addition to not becoming CE, wouldn't get the benefits of the template, and Lolth would likely summarily execute anyone that did decline (she's prone to acting out like that).

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

So I guess I'd chat with him; does he like the template but doesn't want to be CE? What does he want to get out of it?

My personal feeling is that the alignment shift is part and parcel of a clearly under-adjusted template, and that, absent a compelling reason, the roleplaying requirement should be observed. If you're uncomfortable with that, then point him in the direction of a different template.

[gurgleflep]

I think the intent was for Lolth to bless one of her followers/minions by granting them the template. Using it on unwilling critters might undermine her reason for using it (to gain stronger minions), and Will save is a terrible way to model rejecting the goddess' blessing. Not to mention, those that reject the blessing, in addition to not becoming CE, wouldn't get the benefits of the template, and Lolth would likely summarily execute anyone that did decline (she's prone to acting out like that).

The person is willing, but they don't like the idea of the alignment change. Their back story's something along the lines of "Orc born on the surface, drow raiding party from the Underdark comes and slays them. A priestess - feeling she needs a slave - spares the orcish child. Numerous years pass, he's obtained "freedom" (if it can be called such), and becomes great friends with some of the clerics and priestesses of said city." He wants to be a chaotic neutral.

(This part is in reply to QuickLyRaiNbow. I don't know how to quote numerous things)
He likes the template quite a bit, and it helps with his story line. If the template's unable to have the alignment thing worked out, he'll either go with no template or change his story to fit the Eye of Gruumsh idea.
I need to read up on the Eye though, I just skimmed through it.

[Morcleon]

It says it changes his alignment to CE. Never says anything about having to remain that way. :smallwink:

[Phelix-Mu]

Mmm, I agree with Morcleon on that caveat. As a corollary, characters willing to accept Lolth's blessing and then reform or have change of heart should be treated like any other renegade drow, i.e., mercilessly hunted down by those seeking Lolth's favor. Excellent backstory fuel for plot, though, so as long as the player is aware of the past returning to haunt his character, I'd green-light it.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

He likes the template quite a bit, and it helps with his story line. If the template's unable to have the alignment thing worked out, he'll either go with no template or change his story to fit the Eye of Gruumsh idea.
I need to read up on the Eye though, I just skimmed through it.

So is he going to have some sort of anti-evil epiphany? It seems odd that a character of a normally CE race, raised as a slave by another CE race after a brutal slaughter and blessed by a CE god with special abilities would then be CN and keep those powers. Personally speaking, I'd let him keep the stat boots but lose Fearless when his alignment changed, or point him in the direction of a different template or re-fluffed race, like Half-Ogre or Goliath. Just say he's a bigger, badder orc than normal and sidestep the question entirely.