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Rizban
2013-05-08, 01:47 PM
I like all of those, though I'm going to arrange them into a tree format with similar ones keying off of each other.

stack
2013-05-08, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I have Preparations requiring focused fortitude. i think try, try again could require perfect strike. Maybe meditation requires expansive calm?

Expansive calm should have a 'may be taken more than once' clause. I'll add it.

stack
2013-05-08, 02:14 PM
HopliteA warrior who knows that a shield is more than that just a bit of defense.

Prerequisites: Hoplite is available to any Combat class.
Archetype Skills: An hoplite gains no additional class skills.
Archetype Proficiencies: An hoplite gains proficiency with all shields if he does not already have it.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Interposing Shield (Ex): The hoplite adds his BAB/2 (minimum 1) to the AC granted by his shield. Additional, all AC granted by his shield applies to touch AC.
Shield Slam (Ex): The hoplite may, as part of a full-attack action, make a bonus shield bash attack for each attack granted by his BAB at a -2 penalty. These attacks receive 1/2 STR to damage, but benefit from the shield's enhancement bonus, if any. No penalty is taken on his normal attacks. The hoplite retains his shield bonus.

Moderate Archetype Power

Pushing Shield (Ex): The hoplite does not provoke attacks of opportunity when making bullrush and overrun maneuver checks and may add the enhancement bonus of his shield to the check's result.
Dazing Bash(Ex): The hoplite may make a shield bash attack as a standard action. If the attack hits, the target must make a fort save or be dazed for 1 round. On a successful save the target is dazzled 1 round. The save DC is 10+level/2+Str. This attack deals normal damage.

Greater Archetype Power

Quick bash (Ex): The hoplite may now make a dazing bash as a move action, but cannot attempt more than one dazing bash per round.
Strong Arm (Ex): The hoplite may now add his full STR bonus to any shield bash attack.

Capstone: An hoplite adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Brawler – Befuddling Blow (Ex): For three rounds the brawler may make a dazing strike as a free action against any any target he confirms a critical against.
Gladiator – Stunning Master (Ex): For three rounds the gladiator may add his shield's enhancement bonus to the save DC of his dazing bash attacks.
Sentinel – Interposing Shield (Ex): For three rounds all attacks against the sentinel and his ward suffer a 20% miss chance.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-08, 02:26 PM
Brief thing: I was looking over the options for a spellblade, and I am noticing that many different combat only classes are super good for the spellblade.

Maybe it should be able take them and have a very restricted casting list that all "combat" archetypes grant, and *maybe* even a default capstone if you didn't want to make a capstone for each archetype...

Or maybe I'm loopy. I could just be loopy.

Rizban
2013-05-08, 02:28 PM
While that may be true, Spellblade is a Magic class, not a Combat class. I'd prefer to not give it access to the Combat archetypes for both balance reasons and the reasons I mentioned just a few posts back concerning the Spellblade and Zealot.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-08, 02:34 PM
Well, that's all well and fine. The Spellblade is Magic after all. But it sure feels like a combat class.

Are there still only 9 base classes?

Rizban
2013-05-08, 02:34 PM
Yes, there are only nine base classes, three of each type.

And Spellblade is meant to feel like a Combat class. It just isn't one. It's a highly combat focused Magic class.

stack
2013-05-08, 03:18 PM
Spellcasting capstones for the TrapsmithCapstone: A trapsmith adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability.
Augur - Spring Trap (Sp): As a standard action, the auger may claim any one trap he is aware of. He may then trigger the trap remotely as an immediate action.
Magus - Trap Rune (Sp): The magus may convert a prepared spell into a trap rune. This requires an amount of time equal to the casting time of the spell and expends the spell slot. The trap ruin may be placed on any surface and is activated by passing though the 5' space. The magus may set conditions on the activation based on simple factors (race, size, etc.) Once triggered the spell goes off as is cast, targeting the triggering creature with the square it was placed on as the point of origin. If the spell requires an attack roll, use the magus's BAB and attack modifiers. Spells with target 'you' may not be triggered by anyone other than the magus.
Spellblade - Eldritch Trap (Su): The spellblade may place a tactical trap anywhere within range of his eldritch blast as a standard action, dealing eldritch blast damage to any creature occupying the targeted space.


Also edited in two more feats above.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-08, 04:17 PM
Magnus: puts fireball trap down, does it aoe or only affect the o e square?

Is the tactical traps list missing?

Rizban
2013-05-08, 04:58 PM
Is the tactical traps list missing?Yes, it is.

3SecondCultist
2013-05-08, 04:58 PM
Hey Rizban, out of curiosity how many backgrounds/archetypes are you planning on having? I like the variety and these are some interesting options, but I'm wondering about people who might be new to the game being overwhelmed by options.

Rizban
2013-05-08, 05:01 PM
I would like to have around 10 for each type of class plus about 5 generic archetypes available to all. Archetypes that count for more than one class type count as such in the total, so there are going to be fewer than 35.

I feel like the Combat archetypes are pretty well fleshed out, and I'd like to move on toward the other class types.

Rizban
2013-05-08, 09:25 PM
A couple of rewrites for submitted material:

Well, here is an idea I had, obviously inspired by the paladin. Couldn't think of an appropriate capstone for the gladiator.


Holy WarriorThe holy warrior compliments his combat expertise with the ability to heal his allies and shrug off harmful mental effects.

Prerequisites: Holy Warrior is available to any Combat class.
Holy Warrior Skills: A Holy Warrior gains Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Holw Warrior Proficiencies: A Holy Warrior gains no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.

Holy Warrior Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Courage (Ex): You are immune to fear effects
Lay on Hands (Su): You may use a standard action to heal damage on any creature you touch. You must make a touch attack if you wish to use this ability on an unwilling creature. You may heal a total of 5 points of damage per class level each day, divided as you choose between uses.

Moderate Archetype Power

Deny Temptation (Ex): You are immune to charm effects.
Restore Strength (Su): You may use your Lay on Hands ability to remove ability damage, ability drain, and negative levels. You must expend 5 points of healing for each point of ability damage, ability drain, or negative level removed.

Greater Archetype Power

Divine Instrument (Ex): You are immune to compulsion effects.
Cleanse (Su): You may use your Lay on Hands ability to remove any fear, charm, or compulsion effect ona a creature. This includes removing the shaken, frightened, and panicked condition. You may also remove any other effect that could be removed by a Remove Curse Spell. You must expend 10 points of healing for each effect removed this way.


Capstone: A Holy Warrior adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Brawler – Smite (Ex): You may ignore the rolled damage for a single successful attack and instead use the maximum possible amount.
Gladiator – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Sentinel – Reprieve(Su): You may use your Lay on Hands ability to prevent damage or an effect that would be inflicted on your ward. This requires you to expend the same amount of healing as it would take to remove that damage or effect with your Lay on Hands ability.


Design Note
I realize that the lay on hands pool is a bit big. Considering that two of his other abilities draw on it and the remainder are very passive and conditional, I think that is alright. Also, I purposefully left out any alignment requirements or a code of conduct. I feel this makes the archetype more adaptable to a given playgroup, allowing for a greater variety of interesting characters, and it can be fluffed to suit.


TemplarA powerful warrior, the templar fights in the service of his god.

Prerequisites: Templar is available only to Combat classes.
Archetype Skills: A templar gains Knowledge (religion) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A templar gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Alignment: A templar must be strongly aligned to a particular deity, striving to live up to that deity's ideal. The templar's alignment must be within one step of his chosen deity's alignment.
Channeling (Su): By channeling motes of energy, a zealot is able to create a range of effects.
Smite: At 1st level, a templar can channel motes of energy to bring divine judgment against his enemies. As part of a melee attack, a templar bay spend 1 mote as a free action. He adds his Charisma modifier (if positive) to his attack roll and deals an extra 1d6 smite damage per two templar levels, rounded up.
Smite bonuses may only be used against an opponent who has an alignment component which is opposed to one of the templar's. For example, a Lawful Good templar can only smite enemies who are Evil or Chaotic or both. If a templar accidentally smites a creature of the wrong alignment, the smite has no effect, but the mote is still used.
Invigorating Touch: At 3rd level, a templar becomes able to channel energy to heal himself and his allies. By spending 1 mote, he may cast cure light wounds as a supernatural ability. By spending 3 motes, he may remove any fear, charm, or compulsion effect or any effect that can be removed by a remove curse spell as a supernatural ability.
Restorative Touch: At 5th level, a templar can channel 2 motes to heal 1d6 ability damage, 1d4 ability drain, or 1 negative level from a target creature.

Motes/day: This ability is exactly as the Augur ability of the same name, except that his bonus motes are based on his Charisma score instead of his Wisdom score.
Courageous (Ex): A templar is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).
Moderate Archetype Power Divine Grace (Su): A templar gains a bonus equal to his Charisma modifier (if positive) on all saving throws.
Divine Health (Ex): A templar gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Righteous Resolve (Su): A templar of at least 3rd level is immune to charm effects.
Greater Archetype Power Inviolate Mind (Su): A 6th level templar is immune to compulsion and mind-affecting effects.
Capstone: A templar adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability. Brawler – Brutal Smite (Su): If a brawler makes a successful critical hit when making a smite attack, the smite deals an additional 1d6 smite damage. Gladiator – Smiting Maneuver (Su): If a gladiator makes a successful bull rush, disarm, overrun, or trip attack, the gladiator may spend 1 mote as a free action to deal smite damage to the target as though he hit with a normal melee attack.
Sentinel – Divine Warding (Su): For three rounds, the sentinel's ward adds the sentinel's Charisma modifier (if positive) to his saves as long as he remains within 5 feet of the sentinel.
1



HopliteA warrior who knows that a shield is more than that just a bit of defense.

Prerequisites: Hoplite is available to any Combat class.
Archetype Skills: An hoplite gains no additional class skills.
Archetype Proficiencies: An hoplite gains proficiency with all shields if he does not already have it.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Interposing Shield (Ex): The hoplite adds his BAB/2 (minimum 1) to the AC granted by his shield. Additional, all AC granted by his shield applies to touch AC.
Shield Slam (Ex): The hoplite may, as part of a full-attack action, make a bonus shield bash attack for each attack granted by his BAB at a -2 penalty. These attacks receive 1/2 STR to damage, but benefit from the shield's enhancement bonus, if any. No penalty is taken on his normal attacks. The hoplite retains his shield bonus.

Moderate Archetype Power

Pushing Shield (Ex): The hoplite does not provoke attacks of opportunity when making bullrush and overrun maneuver checks and may add the enhancement bonus of his shield to the check's result.
Dazing Bash(Ex): The hoplite may make a shield bash attack as a standard action. If the attack hits, the target must make a fort save or be dazed for 1 round. On a successful save the target is dazzled 1 round. The save DC is 10+level/2+Str. This attack deals normal damage.

Greater Archetype Power

Quick bash (Ex): The hoplite may now make a dazing bash as a move action, but cannot attempt more than one dazing bash per round.
Strong Arm (Ex): The hoplite may now add his full STR bonus to any shield bash attack.

Capstone: An hoplite adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Brawler – Befuddling Blow (Ex): For three rounds the brawler may make a dazing strike as a free action against any any target he confirms a critical against.
Gladiator – Stunning Master (Ex): For three rounds the gladiator may add his shield's enhancement bonus to the save DC of his dazing bash attacks.
Sentinel – Interposing Shield (Ex): For three rounds all attacks against the sentinel and his ward suffer a 20% miss chance.




HopliteThe hoplite is a warrior defined more by his shield than by his weapon.

Prerequisites: Hoplite is available only to Combat classes.
Archetype Skills: A hoplite gains no additional class skills.
Archetype Proficiencies: A hoplite gains proficiency with all shields (including tower shields) if he does not already possess it.

Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Intervening Shield (Ex): As long as he is wielding a shield, the hoplite adds a deflection bonus to his AC equal to one half of his Base Attack Bonus, rounded down.
Shield Offensive (Ex): While wielding a light or heavy shield in one hand and a weapon in the other, a hoplite is treated as though he had the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, allowing him to make shield bashes as either his primary or off-hand attack. While a shield is treated as a one-handed weapon for most purposes, a hoplite only takes two-weapon fighting penalties as though the shield were a light weapon.
While wielding a tower shield, a hoplite may forgo his normal attacks and make a shield bash with his tower shield as though it were a two-handed weapon.
Moderate Archetype Power Defensive Maneuvers (Ex): By thrusting his shield into his target, a hoplite learns to make bull rush and overrun attempts without provoking attacks of opportunity from his targets. He still provokes attacks of opportunity from others for movement as normal. Additionally, the hoplite adds any enhancement bonus on the shield to any opposed checks when making a bull rush or overrun attempt.
Stunning Bash (Ex): As a standard action, a hoplite may make a shield bash against a single enemy. If the attack hits, it deals damage as normal, and the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 hoplite level + shield's AC bonus) or become stunned for 1 round. A hoplite may make a number of stunning bashes per day equal to his hoplite level. A hoplite must declare that he is attempting a stunning bash before he rolls. If the attack misses, the daily use of stunning bash is not wasted.
Greater Archetype Power Improved Shield Offensive (Ex): While wielding a light or heavy shield in one hand and a weapon in the other, a hoplite is treated as though he had the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, allowing him to make two shield bashes as part of his full attack.
While wielding a tower shield, a hoplite adds 2x his Strength modifier to shield bashes made with it rather than 1.5x as normal.
Capstone: A hoplite adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability. Brawler – Befuddling Blow (Ex): As a swift action, a brawler who confirms a critical hit against an enemy may immediately declare that the attack was also a stunning bash, consuming one of his daily uses and affecting the target as if he declared he was making a stunning bash attempt before attacking. Gladiator – Shield-Focused Maneuvers (Ex): For three rounds, a gladiator adds his shield's enhancement bonus to any combat maneuvers he uses his shield to perform.
Sentinel – Deflecting Shield (Ex): For three rounds, the sentinel reduces his shield's AC to 0. If he does so, all attacks against him suffer a 20% miss chance as he uses his shield to deflect all attacks against him.
1

Kerleth
2013-05-08, 11:20 PM
What do you think of this rewrite?


TemplarA powerful warrior, the templar fights in the service of his god.

Prerequisites: Templar is available only to Combat classes.
Archetype Skills: A templar gains Knowledge (religion) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A templar gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Alignment: A templar must be strongly aligned to a particular deity, striving to live up to that deity's ideal. The templar's alignment must be within one step of his chosen deity's alignment.
Channeling (Su): By channeling motes of energy, a zealot is able to create a range of effects.
Smite: At 1st level, a templar can channel motes of energy to bring divine judgment against his enemies. As part of a melee attack, a templar bay spend 1 mote as a free action. He adds his Charisma modifier (if positive) to his attack roll and deals an extra 1d6 smite damage per two templar levels, rounded up.
Smite bonuses may only be used against an opponent who has an alignment component which is opposed to one of the templar's. For example, a Lawful Good templar can only smite enemies who are Evil or Chaotic or both. If a templar accidentally smites a creature of the wrong alignment, the smite has no effect, but the mote is still used.
Invigorating Touch: At 3rd level, a templar becomes able to channel energy to heal himself and his allies. By spending 1 mote, he may cast cure light wounds as a supernatural ability. By spending 3 motes, he may remove any fear, charm, or compulsion effect or any effect that can be removed by a remove curse spell as a supernatural ability.
Restorative Touch: At 5th level, a templar can channel 2 motes to heal 1d6 ability damage, 1d4 ability drain, or 1 negative level from a target creature.

Motes/day: This ability is exactly as the Augur ability of the same name, except that his bonus motes are based on his Charisma score instead of his Wisdom score.
Courageous (Ex): A templar is immune to fear (magical or otherwise).
Moderate Archetype Power Divine Grace (Su): A templar gains a bonus equal to his Charisma modifier (if positive) on all saving throws.
Divine Health (Ex): A templar gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Righteous Resolve (Su): A templar of at least 3rd level is immune to charm effects.
Greater Archetype Power Inviolate Mind (Su): A 6th level templar is immune to compulsion and mind-affecting effects.
Capstone: A templar adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability. Brawler – Brutal Smite (Su): If a brawler makes a successful critical hit when making a smite attack, the smite deals an additional 1d6 smite damage. Gladiator – Smiting Maneuver (Su): If a gladiator makes a successful bull rush, disarm, overrun, or trip attack, the gladiator may spend 1 mote as a free action to deal smite damage to the target as though he hit with a normal melee attack.
Sentinel – Divine Warding (Su): For three rounds, the sentinel's ward adds the sentinel's Charisma modifier (if positive) to his saves as long as he remains within 5 feet of the sentinel.
1

Okay. Well first I'll just say I'm not a fan of dnd's alignment system. That is of course a playstyle thing, and is really neither here nor there.

Secondly, I think I like your version better than mine. It's a bit busier, but not so busy as to be confusing. With that said I think that I would choose either this or the zealot, since they are so similar. Personally, I prefer the Templar. The Zealot just seemed to have a little TOO much going on. A combat archetype that gained a class' spellcasting mechanics, a spell list, AND the troubadour's aura along with his own special abilities just seemed a little much to digest. Although they do a lot of the same things, the execution on the Templar just seems to be a lot cleaner.

I think maybe you should create an alternate, smaller amount of motes gained for the zealot/templar. Getting the same amount as the augur seems to be stepping on his toes a bit. Also, at about 4+ level you're gonna be able to smite so often it won't even be special anymore.

That's my initial reaction. I've got something eating at the back of my mind. Perhaps I've missed something, or perhaps I've got a good idea. It could also just be a brain spider from the far realm. Regardless, I'll think on it more.


On an unrelated note. Duelist=shiny. Me likey.

Rizban
2013-05-08, 11:24 PM
With that said I think that I would choose either this or the zealot, since they are so similar.That was the plan. Also one of the reason I haven't added either of them to the front page.


I think maybe you should create an alternate, smaller amount of motes gained for the zealot/templar. Getting the same amount as the augur seems to be stepping on his toes a bit. Also, at about 4+ level you're gonna be able to smite so often it won't even be special anymore.
The Zealot
{table=head]ChannelingAbilities|Inspiring AuraBonus/Range|Motes/day|SpellsKnown|Maximum SpellLevel Known

Smite|
-|
3|
1|
0|

-|
-|
4|
2|
1st|

Healing Touch|
+1 / 10 ft|
7|
2|
1st|

-|
+1 / 15 ft|
10|
3|
1st|

Vigor|
+1 / 20 ft|
15|
3|
1st|

-|
+1 / 25 ft|
20|
4|
2nd|
[/table]It was in the Zealot's spoiler and is less than half what an Augur gets. Templar would use approximately the same progression.

Kerleth
2013-05-09, 12:18 AM
My mistake. I apologize for not looking more carefully. It's.......ummm, your fault. Yeah, that's it. The zealot just had so much going on that it blew my mind. It's not like I read the zealot and then the templar one after the other and just forgot about the chart or anything. Nothing like that at all.
:smallbiggrin:
I seriously do think that the spellcasting, aura, mote based special abilities, and passive special abilities do make it a little overly complicated though. However, I like the addition of being able to choose a single domain. In that way it is more adaptable as a Champion of XX, where as the Templar is more of a straight up Paladin.



BTW, I was looking through the domains and noticed that earth's second granted power seemed a bit underwhelming. Air gets a shorter duration, but instant activation freedom of movement, water gets a swim speed, fire gets fire resistance, and earth gets ........ stonecunning.
Some suggestions:
Tremorsense
Perhaps a burrow speed, though that could be a gamerbreaker with soften earth and stone.
The ability to move through difficult stone terrain and a bonus to climb stone.
My first pick, Stone Tell once per day. I know it's kinda high level for an E6 game, but the effect isn't really all that powerful. It has a long casting time, only provides info, and isn't really a game breaker like many other divination spells.

stack
2013-05-09, 07:20 AM
I like the way you integrated tower shield into the hoplite. I hadn't thought of a sensible way to work them in and that bugged me. Little sad to see the move-action stun go away, but I suppose that was fairly powerful. Just using the two-weapon fighting mechanics is cleaner than what I wrote, though a touch less powerful. I approve of the whole package.

stack
2013-05-09, 10:40 AM
CallerA wise mage knows the value of strength in numbers, calling aid in battle from other planes

Prerequisites: Caller is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A caller gains Knowledge (Planes) and Knowledge (Nature) as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A caller gains gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Mighty Summons (Su): The caller is granted the augment summoning feat as a bonus feat.
Enduring Allies (Su): All summon nature's ally and summon monster spells are automatically extended without increasing spell level or casting time.
Spontaneous call (Sp): A caller learns summon monster I-III as bonus spells at the appropriate levels. If the caller prepares spells, he may choose to sacrifice any other spell he has prepared to spontaneously cast one of these three spells. The sacrificed spell must be the same or higher level as the summon monster spell being cast. The caller knows and can prepare and cast these spells from memory and does not need to copy them into a spellbook if he uses one, and these spells do not count against his number of spells known.

Moderate Archetype Power

Loyal Servant (Sp): The caller receives an unseen servant, as the spell, with unlimited duration. If the unseen servant is dispelled or destroyed, he may call another as a standard action.
Expeditious Call (Sp): The caller may cast all summon nature's ally and summon monster spells as a standard action.

Greater Archetype Power

Summon Horde (Su): When calling multiple creatures with a summon nature's ally or summon monster spell, the caller gains one extra creature.

Capstone: An ArchetypeName adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Auger – Great Call (Sp): The auger may spend one use of his spirit surge ability to cast Summon Monster IV.
Magus – Call of the Void (p): Tapping the dark knowledge of beyond, the magus may cast black tentacles.
Spellblade – Deadly Formation (Su): When casting a summon monster or summon nature's ally spell, the spellblade may cause it to deal his eldritch blast damage to all creatures adjacent to the space in which the creature forms. If summoning multiple creatures one must be chosen to benefit from this effect.


Red Mage Spell List

0-Level Acid Splash Arcane mark Dancing Lights Detect Magic Mage Hand Mending Prestidigitation Read Magic
1st-level Grease Floating Disk Mage Armor Mount Obscuring Mist Summon Monster I Summon Nature's Ally I Unseen Servant
2nd-level Acid Arrow Darkness Fog Cloud Glitterdust Gust of Wind Summon Monster II Summon Nature's Ally II Summon Swarm Web
3rd-level Call Lightening Haste Helping Hand Phantom Steed Sleet Storm Stinking Cloud Summon Living Element Summon Monster III Shield Summon Nature's Ally III Wind Wall1

stack
2013-05-09, 11:09 AM
ChymistPotions, poison, and explosives are the tools of the trade for the clever agent.

Prerequisites: Chymist is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: An chymist gains craft (alchemy) and craft (poison) as a class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A chymist gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Alchemical Adept (Ex): A chymist may use craft (alchemy) as if possessing a caster level equal to his class level. Additionally, he gains a bonus on craft (alchemy) checks equal to his level.
Explosive Alchemy (Ex): A chymist may prepare, with one hour of work, up to his level plus his INT modifier alchemical vials. These vials may be used as thrown splash weapons, dealing 1d6 damage per class level to the target (no save) and 1 damage per level to all creatures within 5 ft (Ref save for half, DC = 10+1/2 class level + INT mod). The damage may be fire, cold, shock, or acid, chosen individually as they are prepared. These vials may be thrown as an attack action.
Toil and Trouble (Ex): the chemist gains brew potion as a bonus feat, using his class level in place of caster level. He may brew potions or oils as if he had the spell list of any spellcasting archetype, chosen for the day after resting (including one domain if choosing the priest archetype).
Poison Use (Ex): A chymist is never harms himself when applying poison to a weapon.
Moderate Archetype Power

Volatile Potions (Su): Each morning when preparing his explosive vials, the chemist may also brew up to his level in volatile potions. These potions have no cost, but become inert after 24 hrs, and have no sale value.
Selective Vials (Ex):When attacks with alchemical vials, the chymist may chose up to his INT modifier square to not be affected by the splash damage.
Greater Archetype Power

Accuracy (Ex): the chymist may chose which square is targeted when missing with a thrown splash weapon.
Advanced Vials(Ex): the chymist's volatile vials now affect all creatures within 10 ft of the target creature. The chymist may choose to make the vial deal force or sonic damage, but the splash range remains 5 ft.

Capstone: An chymist adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Expert – Insightful Detonation (Ex): For three rounds the Expert adds his INT modifier to volatile vial damage.
Troubadour – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.

stack
2013-05-09, 01:05 PM
The Assassin capstone for the acrobat is confusingly worded.

Acrobat – Opportunistic Backstab (Ex): When an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity against the acrobat, he may make a Tumble check vs DC 15. If successful, he slips through his opponent's defenses and is able to apply sneak attack damage to the attack.

Maybe: When an enemy takes an attack of opportunity against the acrobat, the acrobat may...

Also, it is very similar to the acrobat's default capstone tuck and roll:

Tuck and Roll (Ex): As a move action, the acrobat can tumble through an opponent's square. If the acrobat avoids the opponent's attacks of opportunity for movement, she can treat that opponent as flat-footed against her next attack.

I suppose on close reading they are subtly different (OB applies sneak attack damage but doesn't flat-foot, doesn't require movement or have a specified action). Still, seems like it would be better to make it more unique, though I'm not sure what would be a better replacement.

Idea: Surprise Kick: When making a swinging kick, the acrobat can make a tumble check opposed by the target's reflex save. If successful, the target is flat-footed against the kick and the acrobat may execute a death attack as part of the kick as if he had studied the target for 3 rounds.

Edit - Also, the Mimic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15182944&postcount=211)is now re-worked to use the focus system and have capstones. Let the people rejoice!

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-05-09, 01:09 PM
Dear Gods we're swiming in archetypes. This week was a really crappy one. Next week shall be more productive.

stack
2013-05-09, 03:13 PM
Brawler: Critical Strike is stated to stack with other such effects. Should it be stated that this threat range increase is always applied last, preventing keen from multiplying it as well? I.e. does a keen scimitar wielded by a brawler threaten on 14 or a 13? (I know this was answered in the thread, but the text on the class seems unclear to me)

Acrobat: didn't spot any issues aside from a glaring lack of rapier proficiency. Swash-buckle!

Expert:
Proposed Professional Knack - Journeyman: Your cohort may make profession checks using your skill ranks, modifiers, and knacks.
Prerequisite: Apprentice

Proposed Sage Knack - Exploit Weakness: when making an attack, the expert may spend one point of insight to ignore damage reduction and hardness equal to his INT modifier until the start of his next turn
Prerequisite: Know Weakness

Auger: Vigor still needs a duration

Magus: Esoteric knowledge does not apply to anything that isn't identified by arcana, dungeoneering, religion, or the planes. I presume this is intentional (knowing how to hurt a human isn't terribly esoteric), but does mean there will be days that the ability is never sued, especially at low levels (fighting humanoids and animals).

Spellblade: Eldritch blast does not have a listed action. As such it is assumed to be a standard action, but it wouldn't hurt to state it.

Does surging conduit work with two-weapon fighting, allowing the spell to be channeled into the off-hand attacks as well?

ALSO - spellbreaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15072996&postcount=51)is updated (finally) per Rizban's input form a long time ago as well as properly formatted!

I'm taking a break now. My eyes hurt.

stack
2013-05-13, 12:19 PM
Background:
Phalanx Trained
You have spend many hours training top fight in a shield wall.

You may wield spears, longspears, glaives, and ranseurs as one-handed weapons.

(That could also work as a feat. Mainly wanted it to fit with the hoplite archetype.)

More feats:
Deadly Blow [Combat, Focus]Your blow lands heavily, inflicting a terrible wound.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Adrenaline Rush
Benefit: When you hit with a weapon or natural weapon attack you may spend 1 FP as an immediate action to maximize your weapon damage.


Bloody Focus [Combat, Focus]Pain brings clarity.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Meditation
Benefit: When a creature confirms a critical hit against you, succeeds with a combat maneuver verses you, or negates one of your attacks, you gain 1 FP. You cannot gain more than 1 FP per round from this ability.


Ranged Training [Combat, Focus]Your mental focus grants you deadly precision.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: Choose a ranged weapon type (shortbow, crossbow, etc). As long as you have at least 1 FP, you are treated as having the feats point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot for that weapon only. Once chosen the weapon can only be changed with 8 hrs of intense training with a new weapon. This feat counts as point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot for the purposes of qualifying for other feats.

(I think the feat tax on ranged combat is terrible design, so this reduces the burden, giving you the one feat you wanted (rapid shot) combined with the one you have to take anyway even though it is weak (PBS) and the one that only exists as a feat tax to address a rule that could have been done away with (precise shot). It is a strong feat relative to others, though it only applies to one weapon at a time, but really, the feat tax needs to die. Remove rapid shot from the list if its too strong.)


Focused Maneuver [Combat, Focus]You can see the flaws in your opponents stance and exploits them to send him reeling.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: You may spend FP as part of a combat maneuver. You gain an insight bonus on all checks related to the maneuver equal to twice the FP spent.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-05-13, 01:05 PM
(Wombat's Review of)Skillful Classes(Part 2!)


The Expert


Role: The expert is a learned character who pursues excellence in a craft, trade, or field of knowledge. An expert is an almost purely support class.

Basically, the class I always wanted to play as a player, but only ever ended up playing as a DM. Would this also be something NPC's often had, since there are a lot of tradesmen, crafters, so on?


Hit Die: d6
Class Skills (8 + Int modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level): All skills are class skills for an expert.

I like that feature. Works well for the class, and makes a lot of sense.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of The Expert.


Specialization (Ex): At 1st level, an expert chooses which path he will take and the focus of his abilities and talents. He must choose either Craftsman, Professional, or Sage.
Craftsmen focus on producing the highest quality goods, from swords to tapestries. A craftsman gains an insight bonus to all Craft skill checks equal to half his Expert level, rounded up.
Professionals are dedicated to business, whether providing a service, trading of goods, or simply investing wisely. A professional gains an insight bonus to all Profession skill checks equal to half his Expert level, rounded up.
Sages are masters of lore and knowledge from history to anatomy and engineering to politics. a sage gains an insight bonus to all knowledge skill checks equal to half his expert level, rounded up.

Alright, so I can be one of these paths, and they help me with a certain venue of skills. And you've chosen things that make sense - Craft, Profession, and Knowledge. Now, you've made it so they know a bunch of things in one category. Though, it feels a little wierd, mostly because of the fact that if I choose craftsmen, than I'm really good at making anything. From forging to item smithing, and so on, and that just seems odd. If I was a Sage, I have the chance to know everything. Arcane, religion, nature, so on... It just doesn't seem realistic. From a crunch stand point, it makes sense, but yeah. When I hear the term expert, I think of someone excelling in a specific category, like I'm an expert blacksmith, or and expert on nature, or some such.


Insight (Ex): An expert gains a number of Insight Points which he can expend to gain bonuses to many abilities. At the beginning of each encounter, he gains a number of Insight Points based on his level, as indicated on the class table, plus his Intelligence modifier. Expending points of Insight is a free action.
At 1st level, before rolling an attack roll, damage roll, saving throw, or skill check, an expert can expend 1 point of Insight to gain an insight bonus on the roll equal to his Intelligence modifier.

If this says what I think it does, I get insight points equal to my level per encounter, and I can use these to gain an insight bonus in different ways. So you are using the same number you have of insight points at that level to dictate how much of a bonus you get on the thing you are amping. In first level for this ability, we get the ability to uses this to add your bonus to an attack, damage, saving throw or skill check. If I had a +2 modifier to intelligence, I could do this 3 times in one encounter, and get a +3 to something of my choice (adding my level to my modifier). However I seem to have misread this because in the table it says at level 1 you get 0 insight points...so does that mean you get 0 points, plus you intelligence modifier? So in this example, I'd have 2 points, and a +2? Hm.

Further questions: Can I use all of the insight points toward one attack? So say I used both those points toward an attack, giving me a +4. Does this insight effect my roll itself, or as an addition to the roll (one would create a more common critical, one would just help the attack succeed)? Can I use my points in one attack where one of my insight points goes to the attack, and the other toward damage?


Knacks: Experts gain a number of abilities as they advance collectively referred to as knacks. Experts may choose any knack for which they qualify, but only those from their chosen specialization.

More of this when I read them down below, however, shouldn't they me right next to the knacks ability? Perhaps in a spoiler for them?


Insightful Defense (Ex): An expert learns to read his opponents and predict their attacks. By spending a point of Insight, he adds his Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus to his Armor Class against one opponent until the start of the expert's next turn. This ability may be activated as an immediate action.

Alright, so at level 2, you can use your insight points to AC as well as the abilities listed in Insight. I approve of you naming this so that it references the insight ability by name. I assume you did it like this to keep it away from some 3.5 abilities that go on to describe what happens to it at each level to in a long list, and instead do it in such a way where its easily apparent what you get and when.


Brilliant Aid (Ex): When using Aid Another, an expert may spent a point of Insight to increase the DC on his check to 15. If he succeeds on his Aid Another check, he adds 2 + his Int modifier to his ally's check.

Is Aid Another a Feat (I ask because it's got a capitalized name like a feat or ability might). Otherwise, I'm assuming it's aiding another in a skill check or ability roll. Actually, I'm just gonna ask for this to be more clear before I respond to it.


Insightful Strike (Ex): As a full round action, an expert can make a single attack and expend a points of Insight to deal additional damage against a single target. An expert adds damage equal to his expert level, but the Insight must be spent before making the attack roll. If the attack misses, the Insight spent is wasted.

Grammar error: first sentence, "expend a points of Insight". This confuses me because I thought I could add damage to an attack already from the original Insight abilitiy...does this instead allows me to spend a point to gain an additional attack? And then if it succeeds, I get additional damage based on my level, not based on my bonus that insight gives on every other insight ability so far? :smallconfused:


Skill Mastery (Ex): At 5th level, an expert selects a number of skills equal to his Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check using one of the selected skills, he may take 10 even if stress or distractions would normally prevent him from doing so.

Basically Master Acrobat with every skill. Hrm...so basically I can do the same thing an Acrobat does skill wise, except...with more skills. :smallfrown: I see this making the expert potentially better in skills of a physical nature, especially since they can do it in any armor, unlike the acrobat.


True Expert: Once per encounter, an expert may choose to use one of these abilities. All abilities are activated as a free action unless otherwise stated.

Epiphany (Ex): Every point of insight spent this round counts as two points for the purpose of determining bonuses and effects.

Skill Insight (Ex): When using skill mastery to take 10, the expert may take 15 instead. This function exactly as if he were taking 10, but the result is treated as though he rolled a 15.

Brains Over Brawn (Ex): When making an ability check or skill check based on Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, an expert may add his Intelligence modifier to the roll instead of the physical ability score.

Epiphany - So double the insight bonus, or effect. Nice.

Skill Insight - Nice. Though - how long does taking a 10 take?

Brains Over Brawn - Cool. All three of these I approve of.



Alright, so Knacks are their own (huge) category. Expect a review of that one seperate from this post. I'll try keeping in mind the class as a whole when considering it, though its a large list for only one class. :smalleek:

Rizban
2013-05-13, 08:43 PM
(Wombat's Review of)Skillful Classes(Part 2!)



Insight (Ex)<snip>

However I seem to have misread this because in the table it says at level 1 you get 0 insight points...so does that mean you get 0 points, plus you intelligence modifier? So in this example, I'd have 2 points, and a +2? Hm.You get 0 + Int mod at 1st level, as you noticed later in that paragraph. Yes, you would have 2 points per encounter and be able to add a +2 insight bonus to certain rolls.


Further questions: Can I use all of the insight points toward one attack? So say I used both those points toward an attack, giving me a +4. "Insight" is a standard bonus type. This ability adds an "insight bonus" to certain rolls. Insight bonuses, as per standard rules, do not stack with themselves. Only the highest insight bonus applies. Spending two points on a single roll, while technically possible, does not increase the bonus to that roll.

Does this insight effect my roll itself, or as an addition to the roll (one would create a more common critical, one would just help the attack succeed)?It affects the final total just like any normal bonus to a roll does. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from.

Can I use my points in one attack where one of my insight points goes to the attack, and the other toward damage?Yes, you can spend them on anything to which the ability allows them to apply. They are spent as a free action, so you may use them in any combination without limitation beyond those explicitly stated, i.e. they only apply to certain rolls, and insight bonuses do not stack with themselves.



KnacksMore of this when I read them down below, however, shouldn't they me right next to the knacks ability? Perhaps in a spoiler for them?As you saw below, it's a rather large list, so I placed it at the end, much as the full spell lists of spellcasters are set aside in their own section.



Insightful Defense (Ex)Alright, so at level 2, you can use your insight points to AC as well as the abilities listed in Insight. I approve of you naming this so that it references the insight ability by name. I assume you did it like this to keep it away from some 3.5 abilities that go on to describe what happens to it at each level to in a long list, and instead do it in such a way where its easily apparent what you get and when.That is correct.



Brilliant Aid (Ex)Is Aid Another a Feat (I ask because it's got a capitalized name like a feat or ability might). Otherwise, I'm assuming it's aiding another in a skill check or ability roll. Actually, I'm just gonna ask for this to be more clear before I respond to it.See Aid Another in Combat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother) and Aid Another during a skill check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#aidAnother). Both are standard 3.5 special actions using the same mechanic and the same name. A successful roll adds a +2 to something for another character. Brilliant Aid changes this from +2 to +2+Int mod.



Insightful Strike (Ex)Grammar error: first sentence, "expend a points of Insight". This confuses me because I thought I could add damage to an attack already from the original Insight abilitiy...does this instead allows me to spend a point to gain an additional attack? And then if it succeeds, I get additional damage based on my level, not based on my bonus that insight gives on every other insight ability so far? :smallconfused:That's an error on my part. The damage bonus should not be listed as one of the options in the 1st-level ability. It will be removed from that list in the next posted update.



Skill Mastery (Ex)Basically Master Acrobat with every skill. Hrm...so basically I can do the same thing an Acrobat does skill wise, except...with more skills. :smallfrown: I see this making the expert potentially better in skills of a physical nature, especially since they can do it in any armor, unlike the acrobat. That is a good point. My original intention was to make limited to skills tied to a mental ability score, but I dropped that at some point due to wording issues. I will add that back in with the next posted update, though I'll need to figure out how to word it appropriately.


Epiphany - So double the insight bonus, or effect. Nice.Yes, exactly.


Skill Insight - Nice. Though - how long does taking a 10 take?It takes the same amount of time as if you rolled the dice. See Checks Without Rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#checksWithoutRolls). This ability does not change that.


Brains Over Brawn - Cool. All three of these I approve of.Check.


Alright, so Knacks are their own (huge) category. Expect a review of that one seperate from this post. I'll try keeping in mind the class as a whole when considering it, though its a large list for only one class. :smalleek:I look forward to that.

Rizban
2013-05-14, 02:14 AM
stack, sorry that I've been kind of ignoring your posts lately. You've posted so much content that I wanted to get some time to sit down and review it seriously before replying to much of it. Not everything you've posted will be replied to in order, as I've moved some of the quotes around to be grouped according to topic.

A note to the other contributors in this thread, I'll be working through each of your contributions next.

1Classes

Brawler: Critical Strike is stated to stack with other such effects. Should it be stated that this threat range increase is always applied last, preventing keen from multiplying it as well? I.e. does a keen scimitar wielded by a brawler threaten on 14 or a 13? (I know this was answered in the thread, but the text on the class seems unclear to me)It always applies last. I'll specify that.


Acrobat: didn't spot any issues aside from a glaring lack of rapier proficiency. Swash-buckle!While thematically great, it was hard enough to not make Acrobat into another Combat archetype without adding more weapon proficiencies.


Expert:
Proposed Professional Knack - Journeyman: Your cohort may make profession checks using your skill ranks, modifiers, and knacks.
Prerequisite: ApprenticeThat works for me. Added it.


Proposed Sage Knack - Exploit Weakness: when making an attack, the expert may spend one point of insight to ignore damage reduction and hardness equal to his INT modifier until the start of his next turn
Prerequisite: Know WeaknessI'm not really a fan of this ability. I'd still rather come up with something else for that final Sage slot.


Augur: Vigor still needs a durationCheck.


Magus: Esoteric knowledge does not apply to anything that isn't identified by arcana, dungeoneering, religion, or the planes. I presume this is intentional (knowing how to hurt a human isn't terribly esoteric), but does mean there will be days that the ability is never sued, especially at low levels (fighting humanoids and animals).That is as intended.



Spellblade: Eldritch blast does not have a listed action. As such it is assumed to be a standard action, but it wouldn't hurt to state it.Yes, standard action.


Does surging conduit work with two-weapon fighting, allowing the spell to be channeled into the off-hand attacks as well?No. Conducting a spell only ever affects a single weapon. I'll mention that in the main ability.

1Archetypes

Beastmaster Archetype, capstones: "Augur – Channel of Nature (Su): When using channeling to use either the vigor or prescience ability,..." I think the end of the ability got cut off.Thanks, I'm not sure how I managed that. The complete sentence is, "When using channeling to use either the vigor or prescience ability, the bonuses apply to his animal companion as well."




MimicFirst, I want to say that I really like the concept and will definitely use it. However, I'd really, really prefer to not use Combat Focus on anything except Combat classes. The way you set it up looks like it would work well, but I want to keep FP unique to Combat if for no other reason than because I want it that way.


A trickster skilled at mirroring his enemies attacks

Prerequisites: Mimic is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: An Mimic gains disguise and spellcraft as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: An Mimic gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.Seems perfectly reasonable.


Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Improvisational Focus (Ex): The mimic gains the combat focus feat even if he doesn't qualify for it. Additionally, the mimic gains one FP every time he makes a save against a spell or spell-like ability. The mimic's maximum focus increases by 1.As mentioned above.

Mirror Spell (Su): Whenever the Mimic identifies a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability, he may chose, before the end of his next turn, to spend a number of FP equal to the effective spell level of the spell or ability to use the ability himself. The ability is treated as if it had been used by the original creature for caster level, DC's, and applicable feats, but the effect originates from the mimic and is under the mimics control. This ability does not deplete any uses of the ability from the original creature. The mirrored spell requires the same action to activate as the original and provokes attacks of opportunity as the original. The mimic does not suffer arcane spell failure when using this ability.I like it, though I believe I'll make this a (Sp) and limit it to spells and SLAs. Additionally, I believe it needs a caveat stating that any metamagic effects added to the spell are not mimicked.


Moderate Archetype Power

Mirror Move (Ex): Within one minute of observing another creature make a skill check the Mimic may spend 1 FP to make a skill check of the same type using the original creature's skill bonus.
Disguise (Sp): The Mimic may use disguise self at will as a caster of the Mimic's level. The effect continues until the Mimic chooses to change or dismiss it, the Mimic rests, or the effect is dispelled.Both seem okay, if a bit underwhelming compared to the 1st-level ability. :smalltongue:

Greater Archetype Power
Retain Move (Su): The mimic may spend 1 FP to retain the use of an identified ability or spell for 1 round/class level.Is this so that he can delay casting the spell for a couple of rounds?

Steal Move (Su): As part of an attack, the Mimic may spend FP to deny the target creature the ability to use a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability. The mimic can then treat this ability as if he had identified it for purposes of Mirror Move and Retain Move. The number of points spent are equal to the effective spell level of the ability. The mimic can choose which ability to steal, though if the target does not have the chosen ability the attempt fails. Otherwise a random ability is taken. The target creature cannot use the stolen ability for as long as the Mimic retains it.I kind of like this, but it definitely needs some reworking to make it appropriate.

Capstone: An Mimic adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Dashing Focus (Ex): For three round the acrobat gains a focus point each time he avoids an attack of opportunity from an enemy.
Expert – Inspired Focus (Ex): For three rounds, the expert may spend focus points in place of inspiration points or inspiration points in place of focus points.
Troubadour – Spell Focus (Su): The troubadour may, at any time, spend focus points to regain uses of his Magic Aptitude ability.
Definitely going to need to change with dropping FP...

Overall, I get the feeling that this is supposed to be Spellthief minus the Rogue. As I said, I think it's a good idea, but it will need to be heavily reworked to remove it's reliance on FP.

On the other hand, it could easily be reworked into a Combat archetype and included in one of the side projects rather than in the core if you want to go that direction with it instead. I think a Sentinel/Mimic might actually be really fun to play.



Whip-masterOnce again, I like the idea. I think, however, that an archetype so heavily focused on a single weapon is, thematically speaking, a little too narrow for what I'd like to have in the "core". Perhaps reworked as a racial option or included as another option in one of the side projects would be good.

Alternatively, broadening the concept a little bit into a wider focus, such as "reach weapons" or something might work. Though still might be a bit narrow for what I'd like to include in the core.


a skilled combatant who uses range and surgical precision to defeat his foes.

Prerequisites: Whip-master is available to any class.
Archetype Skills: A Whip-master gains no additional class skills.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Whip-master gains proficiency with whips if he does not already have it.If offered in a side project, the "any class" becomes more appropriate, particularly if racially restricted. Otherwise, I don't see it really offering much to the Magic classes.
The rest seems perfectly acceptable.


I like the special line. I might add it to the whip master to allow them to take red mage spells.Keeping in mind the above, this sounds like that might work.


Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Whip MAstery (Ex): Whip-master can do lethal damage with a whip regardless of their targets Armor Bonus and Natural AC. Additionally, the whip master threatens out to 5' with any whip he wields.
Quick Wrist (Ex): The Whip Master may use his Dex bonus in place of his Str bonus for all trip and disarm checks.
Those seem like fairly minimal abilities but are nice perks. The archetype just doesn't really seem to offer anything other than "Can use whips" at 1st level. It needs at least one more perk at this level to make it a viable option.

Moderate Archetype Power

Wrap-up (Ex): Upon a successful attack with a whip, the Whip-master may choose to forgo damage and entangle his foe. The target suffers the entangled condition until either the whip master chooses to release him (an immediate action) or succeeding on a DC20 strength or escape artist check. The Whip-master can make no further attacks with the entangling whip until the target is released. The target can be no more than one size larger than the Whip-master. The Whip-master can choose to initiate a grapple against an entangled target as an attack action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.I understand what you're saying here, but, just to be clear, you're suggesting essentially treating the whip like a net? I'm not entirely sure about the grappling part, as that seems a bit tacked on at the end.

Grasping lash (Ex): The Whip-master may make a trip check as a free action after successfully damaging a foe.Seems like a good option and is level appropriate.

Greater Archetype Power

Improved Reach (Ex): When wielding a whip, the whip master now threatens an area as if wielding a weapon with the reach property (10' for small/medium)
Improved Finesse (Ex): The Whip-master may use his dexterity bonus in place of his strength bonus for damage when wielding a whip.
Again, these seem like decent options but a bit lackluster. The first one needs clarification. As written, it takes away the ability to threaten adjacent foes.

Capstone: An Whip-masteradds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Brawler – Stunning lash (Ex): If a brawler confirms a critical against a foe, as a free action he may choose to stun the target for 1d4 rounds as part of a successful trip check granted by the grasping lash ability. A Fort save reduces the stunned condition to staggered, DC = 10 + Brawler level/2 + Dex bonus.I'm not sure how a whip stuns... Maybe a different status effect would work better?

Gladiator – Show Fighter (Ex): A gladiator may activate this ability as a free action when makes a successful trip or disarm check, including checks granted by grasping lash. The gladiator treats the result of his trip check as an intimidate check to demoralize all opponents within 30'.I really don't like this ability. Trip/disarm a foe to get a free area effect demoralize? I just don't like it and can't picture how it would work. Perhaps instead make this ability do a "whirlwind attack" with the whip to show that he can hit anyone he wants to produce the demoralize effect on anyone within reach of the whip.

Sentinel – Long Arm(Ex): A sentinel may activate this ability as a free action. For three rounds the sentinel may extend the range of his ward ability to equal the reach of his whip (15 ft for small or medium sentinels).I'm against any ability that increases the range of the ward ability, with the exception of "Epic" level feats/abilities that are gained at the 20+ feats past 6th level point.

Acrobat – Rolling maneuver (Ex): An acrobat may replace a trip or disarm check with a tumble or jump check.You mean using the skill check in place of the trip/disarm check? Not really sure I like that ability or can picture how it would work.

Expert – Try again (Ex): An expert may spend a point on insight to re-try any trip or disarm check with a +4 untyped bonus. If the check is successful, he regains the point of inspiration. This ability may be after the result of the initial check is known.The "reroll" ability is the troubadour's shtick with his luck stuff. Not sure of a better option for the expert, but I don't think it really fits that well.

Troubadour – Whip-dance (Ex): A troubadour may spend a move action each round for up to three rounds. Each round, anyone who can see the Troubadour is affected by his inspiring aura even in an area of silence.Interesting... Needs a bit of clarification, but it could work.

Auger – Surging maneuvers (Su): As a free action, the auger may spend motes to grant a competence bonus equal to the number of motes spent on all trip and disarm checks made with a whip.(Augur (http://cs411330.vk.me/v411330924/6ff7/IqL402R_dVY.jpg) not Auger (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Bit_(PSF).jpg/220px-Bit_(PSF).jpg)) Seems appropriate.

Magus– Clever maneuvers (Ex): As a free action, a magus may add his INT bonus to trip checks for three roundsIt works, though this is probably better as the Expert's ability.

Spellblade – Irresistible Channel (Sp): The spellblade may channel a spell through a held whip against a target currently entangled by the Wrap-up ability. No attack roll is required. If the spell allows a save, the DC is increased by the enhancement bonus of the whip. (The spellblade ability is "Spell Conduit" and "conduct a spell", similar in concept to metal conducting electricity. "Channel" is the purview of the Augur. Just want to keep the similar but distinct terms clear and properly applied.)
That caveat aside, I think this is actually a really nice ability.



Special: If a Magic class selects the Whip-master archetype, he gains the spellcasting ability and spell list of a red mage. He does not, however, gain any other benefits of that archetype.Made mention of this above.


I mentioned my concerns about this archetype at the beginning, but I would like to still say that I really do like it, even if it isn't something I feel belongs in the system core. With a little bit of polishing, this could well be one of my favorite archetypes, though I think it would see the most use with Gladiator and Spellblade.



ShootistGood concept, terrible name. :smallwink:


Master of short-range combat

Prerequisites: Shootist is available to any Combat class.
Archetype Skills: A shootist gains no additional class skills.
Archetype Proficiencies: A desperado gains proficiency with hand crossbows and pistols if he does not already possess it.Expected.


Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Combat Focus (Ex/Su/Sp): A shootist gains Combat Focus as a bonus feat. In addition, his maximum FP is increased by 1.
Deadeye (Ex): The shootist may spend 1 FP as a swift action to add his Dex modifier to all damage rolls of any crossbow or firearm until the end of his turn
Quick-draw(Ex): The shootist may draw a crossbow or firearm, or up to two hand-crossbows or pistols, as part of rolling initiative. He may also spend 1 FP as part of rolling initiative to add an insight bonus to the roll equal to his class level.
Well-trained(Ex):As long as the shootist has at least 1 FP, he is treated as having the point-blank shot, precise shot, and rapid reload feats, but only for hand-crossbows and pistols.
I like the first three. Well-Trained seems a little off to me, though it could be made to work.

Moderate Archetype Power

Trick shot (Ex): The shootist may spend 1 FP to perform a disarm, bullrush, or trip combat maneuver within the first range increment of his weapon. He may instead chose to ricochet his shot around a corner or other obstacle, negating cover, but suffers the normal penalties if he cannot see his target.
Careful Aim (Ex): The shootist can spend 1 FP as a move action to double the range increment of his attacks until the end of his turn. This attack deals double the base weapon damage. Any additional modifiers are not doubled.
I don't really like either one of these abilities, though they do give a few ideas on what to do with this level.

Greater Archetype Power

Arrow-splitter (Ex): If an enemy targets the shootist with a ranged attack, including spells, spell like abilities and supernatural abilities that require an attack roll, the shootist may spend 2 FP as an immediate action to make an attack roll using a held weapon. He may use the result of this attack roll as his AC or touch AC verses the attack.
Imbued alchemy (Su): As a full-round action, the shootist can imbue a number or arrows, bolts, or bullets equal to his class level with elemental energy. This energy persists for one hour per class level. When used as part of an attack, all damage from the round is dealt as the imbued element. The shootist may choose [fire], [cold], [shock], or [acid] at the time of the imbuing. Each round can be imbued with any one element as part of the same action. (feels a bit out of place)
I really, really dislike Arrow-Splitter as written. The concept is decent, but it just grates on me for some reason.
Item creation is, again, not something I'd really like to delve into too much with this type of archetype. While I can see doing something along those lines, I'm not sure this is how I would want to do it.

Capstone: An shootist adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Class 1 – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Class 2 – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Class 3 – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Hmm... I think this section will need to be rewritten entirely. :smallbiggrin:

I've rethought the Desperado, and I think that moving it more in this direction is probably for the best. The name may or may not be Desperado in the end, but I think I'm going to work from this to form the version that eventually gets finalized.



HopliteAs mentioned elsewhere, I really like this archetype. That's why I rewrote it there and already plan to have it included in the next update.


Spellcasting capstones for the Trapsmith

Capstone: A trapsmith adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability. Augur - Spring Trap (Sp): As a standard action, the auger may claim any one trap he is aware of. He may then trigger the trap remotely as an immediate action.With a bit of a rework, I've definitely decided use this. Really fun ability. So tempted to call it "Remote Trap" for the use of remote motes.

Magus - Trap Rune (Sp): The magus may convert a prepared spell into a trap rune. This requires an amount of time equal to the casting time of the spell and expends the spell slot. The trap ruin may be placed on any surface and is activated by passing though the 5' space. The magus may set conditions on the activation based on simple factors (race, size, etc.) Once triggered the spell goes off as is cast, targeting the triggering creature with the square it was placed on as the point of origin. If the spell requires an attack roll, use the magus's BAB and attack modifiers. Spells with target 'you' may not be triggered by anyone other than the magus.Again, a very nice ability that I'll include with a bit of a rework.

Spellblade - Eldritch Trap (Su): The spellblade may place a tactical trap anywhere within range of his eldritch blast as a standard action, dealing eldritch blast damage to any creature occupying the targeted space.I'm not really a fan of this one. I think an ability that let's the spellblade conduct his spells or blast through a trap would work better instead.



ProsoponI'm going to have to get to this one later. I'm getting rather tired at the moment, and this looks like it's going to require some serious digging to get through.



CallerI kept meaning to get to a summonor archetype, but I just didn't get to it yet. If nothing else, this should give me a good starting point.
A wise mage knows the value of strength in numbers, calling aid in battle from other planes

Prerequisites: Caller is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A caller gains Knowledge (Planes) and Knowledge (Nature) as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A caller gains gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.Makes sense.


Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power
Mighty Summons (Su): The caller is granted the augment summoning feat as a bonus feat.
Enduring Allies (Su): All summon nature's ally and summon monster spells are automatically extended without increasing spell level or casting time.Mighty is expected. Enduring needs to be better clarified but isn't bad.

Spontaneous call (Sp): A caller learns summon monster I-III as bonus spells at the appropriate levels. If the caller prepares spells, he may choose to sacrifice any other spell he has prepared to spontaneously cast one of these three spells. The sacrificed spell must be the same or higher level as the summon monster spell being cast. The caller knows and can prepare and cast these spells from memory and does not need to copy them into a spellbook if he uses one, and these spells do not count against his number of spells known.Pretty much expected.


Moderate Archetype Power

Loyal Servant (Sp): The caller receives an unseen servant, as the spell, with unlimited duration. If the unseen servant is dispelled or destroyed, he may call another as a standard action.
Didn't even consider this. Definitely a neat addition.

Expeditious Call (Sp): The caller may cast all summon nature's ally and summon monster spells as a standard action.I'm a little iffy on this one, particularly as it can potentially allow a spellblade to hit someone with his sword and suddenly BEAR! Maybe a casting time of full-round action instead of 1 round would be acceptable?

Greater Archetype Power
Summon Horde (Su): When calling multiple creatures with a summon nature's ally or summon monster spell, the caller gains one extra creature.That seems like a nice capstone and not too terribly overpowered.

Capstone: An ArchetypeName adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Auger – Great Call (Sp): The auger may spend one use of his spirit surge ability to cast Summon Monster IV.Not really a fan of this at all, as that can potentially be a huge game changer. Popping a CR 3-4 creature would become the default opening every time, despite the limited number of spirit surges.

Magus – Call of the Void (p): Tapping the dark knowledge of beyond, the magus may cast black tentacles.Again, not really a fan of adding 4th-level spells. While I have added a few through class features and domains, they're almost exclusively non-combat. This is pretty much a guaranteed lock down against everyone but a gladiator or breathstealer.

Spellblade – Deadly Formation (Su): When casting a summon monster or summon nature's ally spell, the spellblade may cause it to deal his eldritch blast damage to all creatures adjacent to the space in which the creature forms. If summoning multiple creatures one must be chosen to benefit from this effect.Interesting ability. I think a variation of this would work nicely.



Spell List
<snip>I'll have to review the spell list later.



ChymistAs cool as alchemy is, I've just never really been a fan of alchemy based character concepts. Still, it's a popular concept that certainly would seem to have a place here. I'm not opposed to having one, provided it's done in a way I can approve. Also, I'll definitely end up changing the name.


Potions, poison, and explosives are the tools of the trade for the clever agent.

Prerequisites: Chymist is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: An chymist gains craft (alchemy) and craft (poison) as a class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A chymist gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.Seems right.


Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Alchemical Adept (Ex): A chymist may use craft (alchemy) as if possessing a caster level equal to his class level. Additionally, he gains a bonus on craft (alchemy) checks equal to his level.Exists as part of Expert (Craftsman) class, but not out of place here, even if it effectively saves an Expert a knack. :smalltongue:

Improvised Explosives (Ex): A chymist may prepare, with one hour of work, up to his level plus his INT modifier alchemical vials. These vials may be used as thrown splash weapons, dealing 1d6 damage per class level to the target (no save) and 1 damage per level to all creatures within 5 ft (Ref save for half, DC = 10+1/2 class level + INT mod). The damage may be fire, cold, shock, or acid, chosen individually as they are prepared. These vials may be thrown as an attack action.Don't care for the name, but I actually do like the ability. Damage seems a bit high, but it's a neat ability.

Toil and Trouble (Ex): the chemist gains brew potion as a bonus feat, using his class level in place of caster level. He may brew potions or oils as if he had the spell list of any spellcasting archetype, chosen for the day after resting (including one domain if choosing the priest archetype). The chymist never pays XP costs for brewing potions.I don't mind the bonus feat, but completely negating XP cost isn't going to happen.

Moderate Archetype Power
Volatile Potions (Su): Each morning when preparing his explosive vials, the chemist may also brew up to his level in volatile potions. These potions have no cost, but become inert after 24 hrs. A DC 5 craft alchemy or appraise DC 10 check reveal this limitation.Not really a fan of this, as it seems to serve no real purpose other than to try to screw NPC shopkeepers.

Poison Use (Ex): A chymist is never harms himself when applying poison to a weapon.Seems reasonable, but he suddenly went from ranged at 1st to melee at 3rd. That seems a bit disjointed... Perhaps including this at first level would be better and then an improvement on the splodey vials at 3rd? Not sure, but that's what I'm thinking.

Greater Archetype Power

Swift Poison (Ex): the chymist may apply poison to a weapon as a move action.Is he an assassin now? I don't think this fits.

Advanced Vials(Ex): the chymist's volatile vials now affect all creatures within 10 ft of the target creature. The chymist may choose to make the vial deal force or sonic damage, but the splash range remains 5 ft.Hmm... interesting progression, though it seems a bit off somehow.

Capstone: An chymist adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Class 1 – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Expert – Insightful Detonation (Ex): For three rounds the Expert adds his INT modifier to volatile vial damage.
Class 3 – Capstone Ability Name (Ex/Su/Sp): Description.
Seems about right for Expert.


The Assassin capstone for the acrobat is confusingly worded.

Acrobat – Opportunistic Backstab (Ex): When an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity against the acrobat, he may make a Tumble check vs DC 15. If successful, he slips through his opponent's defenses and is able to apply sneak attack damage to the attack.It simply means he applies Sneak Attack to the AoO he makes against the enemy. I've fixed it to be more clear.


Also, it is very similar to the acrobat's default capstone tuck and roll:

Tuck and Roll (Ex): As a move action, the acrobat can tumble through an opponent's square. If the acrobat avoids the opponent's attacks of opportunity for movement, she can treat that opponent as flat-footed against her next attack.

I suppose on close reading they are subtly different (OB applies sneak attack damage but doesn't flat-foot, doesn't require movement or have a specified action). Still, seems like it would be better to make it more unique, though I'm not sure what would be a better replacement.They are similar but really quite different.
Tuck and Roll is a move action done on the acrobat's turn to render his opponent flat-footed, which can apply sneak attack if the acrobat has the right archetype.
Opportunistic Backstab applies sneak attack damage to an attack of opportunity made by the acrobat but does not render the target flat-footed.


Idea: Surprise Kick: When making a swinging kick, the acrobat can make a tumble check opposed by the target's reflex save. If successful, the target is flat-footed against the kick and the acrobat may execute a death attack as part of the kick as if he had studied the target for 3 rounds.Faster death attacks are not going to happen.

1Backgrounds

Background:
Phalanx Trained
You have spend many hours training top fight in a shield wall.

You may wield spears, longspears, glaives, and ranseurs as one-handed weapons.
I like it, but I've got my own take on it that I think I'll use instead. It's basically the same, but I think it will work just a little bit better. I'm still thinking it over though, so it probably won't be showing up in the next update.

1Feats

Ah, they don't expire but they don't come back. I see. Must have been reading in too many assumptions instead of just the text. Might want to spell out that they never expire or regenerate aside from the given methods (don't come back with resting).

I suppose a high-level feat could allow you to focus as a full-round action (or several minutes or whatever).
It does occur to me that two characters could just beat on each other to regain focus (Trip attempt, decline to take AOO, stand, repeat). Not sure what, if anything, to do about it.Addressing the concerns you voiced in these posts and elsewhere about the Combat Focus feat, I've rewritten it a bit to make things more clear.
Combat Focus [Combat, Focus]Trained warriors often enter a state of heightened awareness and achieve near superhuman levels of strength, endurance, and skill.
Prerequisites: Int, Wis, or Cha 13
Benefit: You gain access to Focus Points, which may be spent on a variety of abilities. Upon taking this feat, you immediately gain a number of Focus Points equal to your Hit Dice. The maximum number of Focus Points you may have at one time is equal to your Hit Dice. You must expend at least one Focus Point to activate Focus abilities, though some abilities may require more than one.
Once per encounter, you may spend 1 Focus Point as a swift or immediate action to gain a +2 bonus to either Fortitude, Reflex, or Will saves until your next turn. If you have at least four Focus feats, this bonus increases to +4.

Focus Points do not renew automatically. In order to gain additional Focus Points, you must perform one of four actions listed below.

Slaying a Foe: When you successfully attack an enemy and reduce his hit points to 0 or lower, you gain one Focus Points.
Making Critical Hits: When you confirm a critical hit against an enemy, you gain 1 Focus Points.
Successful Combat Maneuvers: When you make a successful bull rush, disarm, feint, grapple, overrun, sunder, or trip attack, you gain 1 Focus Points.
Defending an Ally: Anytime you prevent an attack against an ally, you gain 1 Focus Points. Such actions include, but are not limited to, disrupting a spell cast against an ally, stopping an enemy charging at an ally, using the In Harm's Way ability. Simply negating the damage or effect is not sufficient. The attack itself must be prevented from occuring.

You do not ever gain Focus Points for attacks against helpless creatures, creatures with fewer than half your Hit Dice, or attacks against allies and you do not gain Focus Points from attacks on which you spent Focus Points.
In addition, other feats or abilities may grant Focus Points or provide additional ways to gain Focus Points.



Focused Brutality [Combat, Focus]Trained warriors can use their mental focus to ensure a killing blow is unavoidable.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: When threatening a critical, you may spend 1 FP as an immediate action to automatically confirm the critical.
Renamed.


Meditation [Focus]Calm reflection centers the mind.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: After resting for a minimum of 8 hours, you may spend 1 hour meditating to regain level/2 FP. You may not exceed your maximum FP.Renamed and clarified.


Perfect Strike [Combat, Focus]Steady hands and careful aim win the day.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: You may spend 1 FP as a swift action to roll twice for your next attack. Use the best result. If one roll threatens a critical, the second roll acts as your confirmation roll.
Slight edit, made the feat below a prereq.


Try, Try Again [Combat, Focus]A skilled warrior can use an apparent miss into open his foes defenses.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: After making an attack with a weapon or natural weapon, you may spend 2 FP as an immediate action to re-roll the attack. You must take the result of the second roll, even if it is worse. You may choose to use this ability after the result of the roll has been announced.
Renamed.


Expansive Calm [Focus]You are capable of holding your focus through great exertion.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: Your maximum focus increases by 2. You immediately gain 2 FP upon taking this feat, which may be spent and recovered as normal. This feat may be taken more than once, the additional increase in FP capacity stacks.
Decided not to include this feat, at least for now.


Focused Fortitude [Combat, Focus]A hardened warrior can ignore his wounds.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you may spend up to your level in FP, healing 3 points of HP per FP spent. Any excess healed is lost.Decided not to include this feat. Added Focused Body instead.


Preparations [Combat, Focus]The veteran warrior knows how to steel himself for battle.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Focused Fortitude
Benefit: As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you may spend up to your level in FP, granting yourself 5 temporary HP per FP spent. These temp HP do not stack with THP from any other source and persist for class level minutes.
Decided not to include this feat.


Adrenaline Rush [Combat, Focus]Your focus allows you to move faster and hit harder than your foes.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: As a swift action, you may spend up to your level FP to grant a, insight bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, or AC (and touch AC) equal to the focus points spend or an insight bonus on movement equal to 5' x FP spent for level rounds. Attacks made using this bonus generate FP, an exception to the normal FP generation restrictions.Decided not to include this feat, but I'd like to include something similar.


ed - new feats
Bestial Focus [Combat, Focus]You imitate the deadly lunge of the wild beasts.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Adrenaline Rush
Benefit: As a swift action, you may spend 1 FP to grant yourself the pounce ability until the end of your turn.Not sure I want to grant pounce through a feat, as there are a few "pounce-like" class and archetype abilities already. A few would really tread on their toes and be the default feat choice for pretty much anyone except Sentinels and even many of them. Decided not to include this feat.


Mighty Lunge [Combat, Focus]You dart in and out with blinding speed.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Adrenaline Rush
Benefit: As a swift action, you may spend 1 FP to increase your melee weapon reach by 5' until the start of your next turn.Renamed, slight changes.


Deadly Blow [Combat, Focus]Your blow lands heavily, inflicting a terrible wound.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Adrenaline Rush
Benefit: When you hit with a weapon or natural weapon attack you may spend 1 FP as an immediate action to maximize your weapon damage.Never been a fan of maximize abilities. I might reconsider this one later though.


Bloody Focus [Combat, Focus]Pain brings clarity.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Meditation
Benefit: When a creature confirms a critical hit against you, succeeds with a combat maneuver verses you, or negates one of your attacks, you gain 1 FP. You cannot gain more than 1 FP per round from this ability.Seems interesting, but I think it's something I'd want to playtest a bit before adding in. Something about it doesn't quite sit right with me.


Ranged Training [Combat, Focus]Your mental focus grants you deadly precision.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: Choose a ranged weapon type (shortbow, crossbow, etc). As long as you have at least 1 FP, you are treated as having the feats point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot for that weapon only. Once chosen the weapon can only be changed with 8 hrs of intense training with a new weapon. This feat counts as point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot for the purposes of qualifying for other feats.

(I think the feat tax on ranged combat is terrible design, so this reduces the burden, giving you the one feat you wanted (rapid shot) combined with the one you have to take anyway even though it is weak (PBS) and the one that only exists as a feat tax to address a rule that could have been done away with (precise shot). It is a strong feat relative to others, though it only applies to one weapon at a time, but really, the feat tax needs to die. Remove rapid shot from the list if its too strong.)I'd rather do this kind of thing within the range focused archetypes. Feat tax is also less of an issue in E6.


Focused Maneuver [Combat, Focus]You can see the flaws in your opponents stance and exploits them to send him reeling.
Prerequisites: Combat Focus
Benefit: You may spend FP as part of a combat maneuver. You gain an insight bonus on all checks related to the maneuver equal to twice the FP spent.While interesting and probably quite acceptable, I'd like to playtest this one in a few situations before adding it in.

1Magic

(Typo) Stinking miasma - it should be a -5 penalty, not a +5 penalty

I like the change to restorative dew. I was just thinking of how over-powered it was with the rejuvenation spells. I was going t suggest putting in a clause that it only effect fast healing spells once per creature per casting, but that still would have been very efficient for a 1st level spell. I think I preferred the scaling penalty for stinking miasma though. It has a short duration and little out of combat application. I don't see using it in its current form, though it is stronger in the earliest levels than my version. Maybe reducing healing by 3+level/3?I have fixed the typo and changed the spell ability from reducing the effects of healing magic to dealing 1 point of nonlethal damage to all living creatures in the mist at the start of their turn, no save.


Should there be a mass minor rejuvenation?I considered it and decided against it. Mass fast healing just seemed a bit too strong.


Summon Living Element - 1/2 level duration for a full round cast to get a medium? The green mage can summon any small elemental as a 2nd level or 1d3 as a 3rd. I hoped the summon would be beefed up a bit to account for the severely restricted options, either reducing casting time or increasing duration. For a third level spell, maybe getting a small for minutes/level (allowing more out-of-combat utility) or a medium for rounds (not much use out of combat, very useful in)?To be 100% honest, I posted the wrong version of this spell. Looking back at my notes, I had changed it but copy/pasted the old version instead of the updated one. I'll have that fixed in the next update.


Gentle Breath
Spheres: Air/Life
Granted Power
Choose one

Buoying breeze: once per day as a swift action you may levitate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/levitate.htm)per the spell for class level rounds
Whispering winds: may cast message (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/message.htm)as the spell at will

1 - Color spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/colorSpray.htm) Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures. (non-lethal, light...thematically weak)
1 - Silent Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silentImage.htm) description (Creates minor illusion of your design.) (creating something 'from the air', it has no substance)
2 - Detect Thoughts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectThoughts.htm) Allows “listening” to surface thoughts.
2 - See Invisibility Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
3 - Tongues (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/tongues.htm) Speak any language.
3 - Fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) Subject flies at speed of 60 ft.


Air and life just seem like a good fit for divination spells to me. <shrug>Used some of your suggestions here, though I had several of those spells already down for that divine domain. You also forgot the requisite Summon Living Element spell. :smalltongue:

Edit: Added spoilers, because that is one MASSIVE wall of text otherwise.

stack
2013-05-14, 07:47 AM
Whoa feedback! Yeah, there's no way I can respond without missing quite a bit.

Mimic- I originally wrote it to use its own unique pool of improvisation points refilled by making attacks, saves, and casting spells, but changed it to FP to make use of all the other FP stuff that comes with the system. Easy enough to change it back. Retain move is to let you use the ability for multiple rounds (if you have the points to do so) and deny them they use it. Anyway, I like it as a core archetype to give an anti-mage parallel to the spellbreaker that matches the skilled classes better.

Whip-master was written before I had a better feel for how broad an archetype should be, hence its focus. Turns out you need a lot of abilities to make whips a good primary weapon. Broadening it could work, but so many abilities imply a flexible weapon.

Shootist - If the name has good enough for John Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075213/?ref_=sr_1), its good enough for me.:smallbiggrin: Not real keen on the elemental bit myself, but I wanted something to distinguish it from PF's gunslinger and darklink shadow had just proposed the idea.

Caller - my other idea for a high-level ability was to extent the duration of a summons to unlimited, but only allowed to have one such summoned at a time.

For the chymist, the volatile potions are to try to make potions useful by allowing some to be made each day without cost, allowing them to be used without reservation, but not creating an infinite wealth stream. If a shopkeeper can't hit a DC 10 appraise check then they deserve it. Poison use is a bit tacked on.

Acrobat/assassin- I completely misunderstood Opportunistic Backstab. Makes sense now.

For some reason I can't type augur right. Though the typo does create an interesting mental image.

I think I responded to any questions you posted and clarified anything I felt needed it. Thanks for the lengthy response.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-05-14, 08:12 AM
Good concept, terrible name. :smallwink:



Shootist - If the name has good enough for John Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075213/?ref_=sr_1), its good enough for me.:smallbiggrin: Not real keen on the elemental bit myself, but I wanted something to distinguish it from PF's gunslinger and darklink shadow had just proposed the idea.

Alternate name Ideas:

Marksman? Sharp Shooter? Adept Archer? Deadeye? Sniper? Ranger?

Rizban
2013-05-14, 11:43 AM
Alright, I think I have now officially replied to everything that I haven't replied to already.

darklink_shadow



Desperado
Overall, I have to say that I really like this archetype. It definitely managed to capture the feel I was trying to attain in several ways. I believe that I'm going to use large portions of this along with a little bit from stack's Shootist to create the Desperado archetype. Thanks for the ideas!

Master of short-range combat

Prerequisites: Desperado is free to any Combat or Skill classs
Archetype Skills: A Desperado always has intimidate.
Archetype Proficiencies: A desperado gains proficiency with hand crossbows and pistols if -he does not already possess it.Seems right, though I'd likely add Ride too.


Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Mounted Gunman(Ex): Ignore penalties caused by being mounted
Quick-draw(Ex): As part of a initiative roll, a Desperado may draw one weapon of his choosing.
Well-trained(Ex):The Desperado has point-blank shot, precise shot, and rapid reload feats, but only for hand-crossbows and pistols.
Well, huh. I like it. I don't know why I never thought to add the mounted bonus before. Those all look good.

Moderate Archetype Power

Gritty(Ex/Su/Sp): A Desperado can take a hit as well as he can give them, and he gains DR equal to half his level bypassed by adamantiteHmm... I'm not sure on giving him DR, though it could possibly be appropriate. I'd have to think about that.

Lone Wolf (Ex): The Desperado has lived through tougher times alone than most people could survive with help. He gains a bonus to survival checks equal to 5 and this bonus improves to 8 at level 5.Seems appropriate.

Dead Stare (Ex): As a swift action after dropping a foe in combat, a Desperado may make a free intimidate check with a bonus equal to the CR of the enemy he drops in the attempts to demoralize the remainder of his foes.I like it. Seems perfect or the Desperado! Great ability.

Shotgun Diplomacy In place of a diplomacy check, the Desperado may make an intimidate check as long as he is armed.This one, on the other hand, isn't something I'll want to use.

Greater Archetype Power

Die Another Day (Ex): When taking a fatal blow, the Desperado may make a fort save DC: equal to the amount of damage he would have to resist to be put at exactly -9 hp. If he passes, he is instead at -5 hp and stable.Seems alight, though it'll need some reworking to make it right.

Shrapnel Rounds(Su): Every shot of the Gunslinger's gun can either deal bleed damage equal to one fourth the damage he dealt or be fired so that he forms an explosive cone. This cone be "start" anywhere along his bullet's path, and acts as a 15' cone originating at the point designated in the direction he fired.

((If this isn't clear I will draw it later.))Bleed damage? Oh! Pathfinder. This ability really seems to be edging back into the ad hoc alchemist again, so I'd rather avoid it.

Piercing arrows: The Desperado's bolts fired from a hand cross bow instead fire as a line attack within his first attack increment, and deal damage to all targets within that path. (Basically, he 'casts' a line of pain, and everyone afflicted is hit by his bolt.)That could work.

Capstone: An gunslinger adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Brawler - Pistol Whip (Ex/Su/Sp): Anyone who moves adjacent to a Brawler Desperado provokes a pistol whip, although the Desperado must use his AoO for this attack. A pistol whip does damage equal to a club, and requires a fort save or daze affect. Ouch.Hmm... maybe.

Gladiator - Shot on the Run(Ex/Su/Sp): While moving, the Gladiator Desperado may fire off a quick shot. ((See flyby attack? My Desperado and the Gladiator mesh really well already, I didn't want to give much of a capstone.))This ability seems more appropriate to the Brawler or Acrobat than the Gladiator.

Sentinel - Something (Ex/Su/Sp): The Sentinel Desperado does something.Something indeed. :smallbiggrin:

Acrobat - Dodge Roll Once per round, you can make a tumble check (or acrobatics, whatever this should be) and roll 5ft out of harms way, negating the attack.That could work, though it still needs to be a once per encounter ability.

Expert - Alchemical Rounds See Alchemical rounds from my last attempt.That could potentially work for the Expert, though it's still something I'd prefer to avoid with this archetype.

Troubadour - Country Folk Song While singing about your woman leaving you for a man with a bigger horse and taking your dog, a mace to the head just doesn't feel quite as bad as it should. Your allies gain your Gritty power while this Aura is up.
Absolutely hilarious! While absolutely great, I don't think that I'll end up using it. It's just a bit too humerous to fit. I might use the ability, but the fluff is going to have to change.

3Hawk7915


This is great work, Rizban! I noticed the Trapfinder Archetype doesn't currently have a spell list to draw from, or capstones for the Magic base classes.Trapsmith will have its own spell list when I get it finished, but it will definitely be more limited that most Magic archetypes. It may end up possible that a Magic class might have more spells known than spells available on his list... I'm not 100% sure on the list yet, but it is something I'm working on doing.


Trapsmith Capstones
Capstone: A Trapsmith adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Change Fate (Su): By spending two motes, the Augur may reroll a failed skill check or saving throw, but must use the new result even if it is lower.
Magus – Esoteric Security (Su): For three rounds, you add your Intelligence modifier to your Search, Spot, Listen, Disable Device, and Open Lock checks.
Spellblade –Trap Power (Su): When you create a trap, magical or otherwise, its save DC is increased by 2 and it has a +2 bonus on caster level checks to beat spell resistance. I like these capstones, but I'm going to go with variations on the ones proposed by stack. While his might also be a little stronger, I really like the flavor of them and think they fit well with the archetype. The list you've provided could work, but they're a little lackluster compared to the other options available to the classes, though that Augur ability is pretty strong.



Let me introduce...


Spellguard
Already did a brief review of this earlier, though I can't remember if I had posted it or not. Going over it again, because it's definitely a concept I like.

Most consider Arcane Magic to be a tool for war and destruction. The Spellguard instead focuses their arcane magic towards tactics, utility, and defense, the "Soft" style to contrast a Red Mage's "hard" style of spellcasting.Apt description.


Prerequisites: Spellguard is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A Spellguard gains Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Spellguard gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.I half expected him to gain armor of some kind, but this works.


Spellguard Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Spellcaster: A Spellguard casts arcane spells focused on protection, support, utility, and battlefield control.
Arcane Defense (Su): The Spellguard is a master of magic, and understands how to defend against it. They gain a +1 bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level.
Familar: A Spellguard can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.
The Spellguard chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the spellguard advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.
If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the spellguard, the spellguard must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per spellguard level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a spellguard experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar’s demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.
Arcane spells, bonus on saves, and a familiar. Seems pretty good, though the familiar might be a little out of place. I also expected to see dispel magic or some other sort of protective spell as an always known spell here somewhere.

Moderate Archetype Power

Expanded Arcana (Ex): The Spellguard has access to more arcane power than normal for a member of his class. A Spellblade gains one additional 1st level spell known. A Magus gains one additional spell/day of their highest level of spell known. An Augur gains bonus motes equal to their level.
I'm really not a big fan of this ability. Extra magic can be rather potent. I've already tried to max out what the Magic classes have available per day while still maintaining balance, and adding more to it isn't something I think should be done lightly.

Greater Archetype Power

Bonus Feat: The Spellguard gains a bonus feat. The feat must be a metamagic feat, a spell focus feat, or Spell Penetration.
Not really the best capstone, though I'd prefer to not have too many open selection bonus feats available. Bonus feats also really aren't that great of a bonus in E6.

Capstone: A Spellguard adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Manipulate Magic (Su): You may apply a metamagic feat of cost 3 or less, even if you don't have the feat, for no mote cost and no increase in casting time.:smalleek: Yeah, that's really strong and already effectively what the spirit surge is supposed to be for.

Magus – Arcane Wayfarer (Sp): You may cast Dimension Door, as the spell.I don't really see how that fits with the archetype...

Spellblade – Enchant Item (Su): For three rounds, you may add +2 worth of bonuses to a masterwork or enchanted weapon or piece of armor wielded by the Spellblade
This ability seems good, though I really expected it to be defensive only.


Spellguard Spell List

0th-level Spells (Cantrips)

Arcane Step†
Daze
Detect Magic
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Prestidigitation
Read Magic

1st-level Spells

Alarm
Benign Transposition
Comprehend Languages
Endure Elements
Expeditious Retreat
Disguise Self
Feather Fall
Floating Disc
Grease
Identify
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Magic Weapon
Protection from Alignment
Obscuring Mist
Reduce Person
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep

2nd level spells:

Alter Self
Baleful Transposition
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Daze Monster
Detect Thoughts
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Invisibility
Knock
Minor Image
Mirror Image
Owl's Wisdom
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Shatter


3rd-level Spells:

Arcane Sight
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Dispel Magic
Displacement
Explosive Runes
Fly
Haste
Hold Person
Major Image
Protection from Energy
Sleet Storm
Slow
Water Breathing

I'll have to review spell lists when the archetypes are more thoroughly completely.


Arcane Step
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Spellguard 0
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 move action
Range: 10 feet
Target: You and touched objects or willing creatures.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (objects)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

With a word, you shimmer, flicker, and appear in a nearby location.

You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range and line of fire. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load). If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 10 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 10 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 100 feet. If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.While I'm not opposed to a low level teleport ability, a 0-level teleport that can take other creatures with it is just way too strong.


Some ideas left behind for the archetype were:


"Free" Arcane Thesis to make metamagic easier to add to spells.
I'm almost done with a metamagic focused archetype, and I'd rather not give that ability out to other archetypes without very good reason.


More bonus spells known, to bring it up to par with other caster lists that get three bonus spells.
That's what I expected to see, though it's really not a requirement.


Some sorta bonus to countering spells.
I wouldn't mind seeing a bonus to the roll, but, as stack mentioned, the better ability is part of the Augur class. I'd rather not give a version of that to the archetypes.


Increased AC bonus from defensive spells.
That seems like a good addition and is definitely what I expected to see from the class.

3Kerleth

Already responded to the next post but wanted to say a bit more that was relevant to the section of this post immediately previous.

I think that what the spellguard really lacked was a hook, some sort of signature ability or combination of abilities that really makes it stand out. Considering the theme of the class, enhanced ability at counterspelling and dispeling seems like a good fit. Perhaps the ability to counterspell as an immediate action, and being able to spontaneously cast dispel magic, like a priest does with cure spells?
edit: I forgot the augur gets some counterspelling abilities. Perhaps instead a bonus on dispelling checks along with the spontaneous casting of dispel magic. Then the archetype synergies with and augments the augur's counterspelling, but is also useful to other classes.A unique ability that is useful to all classes and synergizes well with Augur would probably be ideal, as long as it doesn't step on the Augur's toes by giving away her class ability to other classes. I'm definitely against giving an ability of one class to another, though not necessarily giving another class access to the same mechanics. E.g., a class could pick up limited Channeling through an archetype, but it would have its own channeling abilities rather than the Augur's abilities (see Templar).


I think the focus feats are a nice idea. They aren't for everybody, but not everybody has to use them. I wonder if you might want to add into the brute's rage ability that he can't use focus feats while raging. If they are more strategic, emphasizing combat tricks and precise timing it might be flavorful. Depends on how you design them. On the other hand, taking away options is, well, TAKING AWAY OPTIONS:smallfurious:!I think the rage ability is limited enough as it is.


I know it was a few posts back, but I really like the racial archetypes ideas. Some questions while on the topic.

1) So far I've been assuming that you have been using 3.5 base races, is that correct?
2) Have you considered doing a write up for race base stats and abilities, or are you pretty much satisfied and just want to do racial archetypes to expand them?
3) Have you considered doing LA 1 races as archetypes? What I mean is, you could have base stats for, let's say, drow that would be balanced with all the other base races. Then you could create a racial archetype for them that gives them all the bells and whistles that a "full" drow would have. Taking the archetype may or may not be mandatory for such a race, depending on how you wanted to design it.

Yes, I'll be using the base races until such time as I choose not to use them. I don't really plan to switch them out though.
I'll do a full write up for each race in the Census project.
Three different parts to this answer:
I'm not sure what to do with low LA races yet. High LA ones will be in the monster project as either classes or archetypes. Lower LA races may just get a benefit reduction and a racial paragon archetype, though that will also usually require expanding on the racial abilities some to make a fully fleshed out archetype. This option is definitely the most work.
What I'm most seriously considering for low LA races is just stripping them down and then offering their racial abilities back in the form of racial feats. Since feats are rather plentiful in E6 and most low LA races wouldn't make a full class or archetype, that seems like the easiest option at the moment.
My final idea is to offer ACFs for them. A drow, for example, might have a Brawler ACF that drops Flurry of Strikes for Poison Use and part of their original racial abilities back. I'm least sure of this idea, though it could work with some effort and might end up being the easiest to balance.




Holy Warrior
Skipping over this entirely, because I've already responded to it rather extensively.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-14, 06:10 PM
Glad it helps. I am pretty keen on shotgun diplomacy though. Lots of desperados use shotgun diplomacy and I think the mechanic I gave it is the best implementation you could have for it.

stack
2013-05-14, 09:26 PM
I've been thinking (scary, I know) that maybe the skilled classes could use a debuffing focused archetype?

Tomorrow I'll flesh-out the Cad. It will start with weak debuffs in place of attacks (deafened, dazzled), progressing to reduced costs for the weak conditions and stronger conditions with high action costs, eventually reaching things like blind and confusion. My goal will be to have an array of abilities to target various defenses and inflict a wide variety of conditions so that the player isn't foiled by the myriad immunities that monsters can have.

Rizban
2013-05-14, 09:48 PM
That seems like a good concept.

Rizban
2013-05-15, 02:56 AM
Changelog General: Archived all extant changelogs to the front page for easy reference.


Class: Brawler – clarified issue with Critical Strike
Class: Expert
fixed typos
fixed error in Insight ability
Added Journeyman professional knack.
Knack lists alphabatized

Class: Troubadour – Inspiring Auras list alphabatized
Class: Augur – fixed typos, added duration to Vigor
Class: Spellblade – Minor clarifications on eldritch blast and spell conduit


Archetype: Added Duelist!
Archetype: Added Templar!
Archetype: Added Hoplite!
Archetype: Assassin – clarified Acrobat capstone
Archetype: Beastmaster – fixed Augur ability
Archetype: Trapsmith – Added capstones for Augur, Magus, and Spellblade


Feats: Added Combat, Magic, and Skillful Feats rules.
Feats: Added the following feats
Combat Focus
Combat Lunge
Focused Body
Focused Critical
Meditative Focus
Perfect Strike
Unerring Strike



Divine Domains: Edited the Air spell selection. Finished the Gentle Breath divine domain.
Spells: Stinking Miasma – spell effect slightly altered.
Spells: Summon Living Element – uploaded the correct spell description.

planswalker
2013-05-15, 08:50 AM
woot, coming along nicely.

so, Riz, in your opinion, how close is this to being ready for a playtest?

Rizban
2013-05-15, 10:22 AM
woot, coming along nicely.

so, Riz, in your opinion, how close is this to being ready for a playtest?It's probably ready to do a public playtest now. The Combat classes and archetypes are definitely mature enough to run without problem, and the other two types have enough support to be able to use, even if they're not fully mature yet.

stack
2013-05-15, 10:31 AM
CadHonor is a comfort for the loser. Better to just win.
Prerequisites: Cad is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A Cad gains bluff as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Cad gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Dirty Tricks (Ex): Spit, throw dirt, sucker punch, nerve strike; however you do it, its dirty. As a standard action you may inflict the blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened condition on an opponent inside your melee range. Your target may make a save of DC equal to 10+level/2+dex or str mod. If they fail the save, they are afflicted with the chosen condition for 1d5 rounds or until they take a standard action to remove it. The save if fort for dazzled, deafened, or sickened; reflex for blinded or entangled,; and will for shaken. The creature takes to penalty on a successful save.
Sidestep (Ex): Once per encounter, when flanked by at least two creatures and targeted by one of the flanking creatures, the Cad may, as an immediate action, redirect the attack against any other of the flanking creatures.

Moderate Archetype Power

Quick and Dirty (Ex): Your dirty tricks may now be performed as a move action
Lingering Affliction (Ex): The duration of your dirty tricks is increased by 1/2 your level, rounded down.
Greater Archetype Power

Downright Mean (Ex): Your dirty tricks now require a full-round action to remove.
Tiresome (Ex): Any time a creature is under the effects of 3 or more dirty tricks, the creature is fatigued. If effected by 6 or more, the creature is exhausted. These conditions end as soon as the creature is no longer effected by the required number of dirty tricks.
Capstone: A Cad adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Preemptive Retaliation (Ex): When provoking an attack of opportunity, the acrobat may, as an immediate action, use one dirty trick against the attacking creature. This trick is resolved before the AOO.
Expert – Insightful Trick (Ex): When using a dirty trick, the expert may expend insight points up to half his level to increase the tricks DC by a number equal to the insight points spent.
Troubadour – Tenacious Trick (Ex): The troubador may force his target to re-roll a save against a dirty trick, taking the worse roll.

planswalker
2013-05-16, 12:02 AM
It's probably ready to do a public playtest now. The Combat classes and archetypes are definitely mature enough to run without problem, and the other two types have enough support to be able to use, even if they're not fully mature yet.

In that case, I'll try to set up a one-shot by Saturday to give things a test run. When I do, I'll link it to this thread.

Rizban
2013-05-16, 12:07 AM
I like the concept of the Cad, but I have to say that I'm really not a fan of the implementation... I'm not sure what to suggest at the moment, but I just really don't like it. I was going to try to review it, but I found myself at a bit of a loss for what to say specifically... I feel bad for that, but... :smallfrown:

1I've been working on a concept for a Magic archetype that I really, really like. The problem is that it keeps trying to turn into a class while still being an archetype. It's frustrating trying to find a balance. Because of how I setup the system, it's going to have to be an archetype. In reality though, I think I'm going end up posting it as its own project as a standard 3.5 class in addition to being an archetype for this system.

All that said, I'm recreating the 2e Sha'ir, the Al-Qadim spellcaster based on genies. I've run into the following observations:
The spell fetching mechanic as it exists in 2e and 3.X, while amazing, would demand it's own class to implement as it exists in either of those systems.
As an R'E6 class, it would be able to access any Magic archetype, most of which are totally unsuited to the concept.
As an R'E6 archetype, it loses the key feature of the Sha'ir, i.e. the spell fetching.
The 2e/3.X Sha'ir is both arcane and divine with access to basically any and all spells. While the a/d issue poses no problems here, all spell access would simply not work with the existing mechanics.


All that noted, it would seem that this concept is doomed to failure without it being a special case class with its own archetype list in a secondary supplement. That's really not something I want to do. As such, I believe I have come up with a solution that is both flavorful and has a potentially amazing cool factor that would easily rocket this to my favorite Magic type period.

The archetype concept will essentially become a genie based version of the Tome of Magic's Binder. The Sha'ir will periodically make pacts with genies to gain his power, gaining access to varying spell lists based on his pact. The archetype will override the Magic class' method of "knowing" spells, changing them based on his pact, though each class will still be limited by his maximum known. This is exceptionally good for the Spellblade, good for the Augur, and... "interesting" to the Magus, as it lets them switch out spells known.

planswalker
2013-05-16, 12:11 AM
that certainly sounds intriguing. Honestly, though, (as much as its own splatbook worth of stuff isn't really an option at this time), if the Sha'ir was its own published splatbook, I'd buy it.

Rizban
2013-05-16, 12:12 AM
Well, then I just might end up doing that as some point. :smallwink:

stack
2013-05-16, 06:59 AM
If anyone has ideas for fixing up the Cad I'm all ears. I'm not entirely happy with how it came out either. Right now its basically a bunch of ways to do single-target melee debuffs, which was not exactly how I had conceived of it, but I was trying to have it make fluff sense without depending on items.

Binder-style would be interesting. (The prosopon could use some company in the binder/incarnum-esque field)

ed-I am so torn as to what I would play in the playtest game. I originally was set on an augur, but now that the duelist and hoplite are 'official' I don't think I could resist. But having to choose...

Rizban
2013-05-16, 11:01 AM
ed-I am so torn as to what I would play in the playtest game. I originally was set on an augur, but now that the duelist and hoplite are 'official' I don't think I could resist. But having to choose...

I know how you feel!

3SecondCultist
2013-05-16, 11:18 AM
For my first playtest, I was thinking of either playing an Acrobat Duelist critical monster or a completely non-combat character. The only problem I have is that right now, you have 9 archetypes available to all Combat classes and only 5 for the Magic and Skillful ones. :smallfrown:

I really do like this E6, however. It is new, exciting and easy to use... and when I look at Aldhaven, I can't help but think how cool it would be to have an E6 version of that sandbox.

Rizban
2013-05-16, 11:23 AM
For my first playtest, I was thinking of either playing an Acrobat Duelist critical monster or a completely non-combat character. The only problem I have is that right now, you have 9 archetypes available to all Combat classes and only 5 for the Magic and Skillful ones. :smallfrown:I think you meant Brawler Duelist.


I really do like this E6, however. It is new, exciting and easy to use... and when I look at Aldhaven, I can't help but think how cool it would be to have an E6 version of that sandbox.That was the original concept for this, yes... Whether or not that's going to happen, I don't know.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-16, 11:24 AM
Not gonna lie, hoplite is seducing me too, but I think I will stick with a spellsword beastmaster with a military background or a lucky background or maybe even animal friend to have two pets running amok. But having 3 characters to control per turn would get a little annoying, since all 3 are different. (A man, a beast and a forever level 1 beast)

Military is clearly better, casting in medium armor is great! Then again, at level 6 I would have 3 animals with me, 2 of them would be the same, and that is neat!

Do something like a hawk and two riding dogs? Or a riding dog and two hawks? Man...

Maybe a wolf named Nighteyes, a dog name Fitz and a hawk named Falcon. Yeah.

Rizban
2013-05-16, 11:27 AM
A beastmaster casts off Green Mage and is thus a divine caster. You don't suffer spell failure for armor with divine spells. You really don't need Military unless you're going for an arcane caster.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-16, 11:36 AM
Pfft, you and your words.

Wait, you're right!

Ok, probably animal friend then! At least unless a more appealing background comes into existence.

stack
2013-05-16, 12:03 PM
Let's see...hoplite sentinel AC can get impressive.

Level 1
{table]base| 10
scale mail|+4
tower shield|+4
warding bonus|+1
Dex|+1
Deflection|+0
Total AC|20[/table]

Level 6
{table]base| 10
Full plate +1|+9
tower shield +1 |+5
warding bonus|+3
Dex|+1
Deflection|+3
Amulet of NA +1|1
Total AC|32[/table]

I was more inclined to the brawler or gladiator but...

Probably go duelist anyway.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-16, 12:57 PM
So, no archetypes let the spellsword get true strike. That's too bad. :( Although I think it fits in the Red Mage set up.

I hope some more magic or "any" archetypes come up. They are rather lacking.

Rizban
2013-05-16, 01:50 PM
No archetypes will allow any spellcaster to get true strike. That's a spell I won't be including.

3SecondCultist
2013-05-16, 01:54 PM
Haha that's what I meant, Brawler Duelist. It would be a really fun combination to try.

Rizban
2013-05-16, 10:56 PM
I wrote a jester/bard PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140180) several years ago that never got a single reply from anyone ever. :smallfrown: However, I think it might make an interesting Skillful archetype.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or whole cloth archetype rewrites for it would be interesting to see. Post them HERE of course, as that thread is long dead.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-16, 11:57 PM
Ok, I have a few half baked ideas I am going to put here.

Magic Archetypes:
Summoner
-Summons things

Transmutionist
-Turn your arms into claws! Grow tentacles on your back! Turn your gut into steel! Give yourself dragon eyes, and see in the dark!


Any Archetypes:
Shapeshifter
-Shapeshift!

Melder
-Uses soulmelds


EDIT:

I'll flesh some of these out... I donno when, gonna be busy for a few days.

Rizban
2013-05-17, 12:03 AM
Ok, I have a few half baked ideas I am going to put here.

Magic Archetypes:
Summoner
-Summons thingsstack presented one called the Caller already, though I'd really like to see some other takes on the idea. If you pursue this, I would like to see something that approaches it differently than what he has submitted.


Transmutionist
-Turn your arms into claws! Grow tentacles on your back! Turn your gut into steel! Give yourself dragon eyes, and see in the dark!I'm really not a fan of this type of character. While I do like the Evolutionist class by draken, I'm not sure it has a place in this project, at least not in the core portion of it.


Any Archetypes:
Shapeshifter
-Shapeshift!This is another thing I'm hesitant to include. I removed wild shape from the druid archetype for a reason. I'm not entirely sure that I want to include that kind of a character, at least in the core project.


Melder
-Uses soulmeldsAs my all time favorite subsystem, I have to encourage this. However, do note that I have already invested a lot of time and thought into an archetype for this myself. I'm always open to getting the thoughts of others though.

Rizban
2013-05-17, 01:06 AM
I just started posting up another project unrelated to this one, but I'd appreciate it if anyone interested would pop over and give it a read.

The Kreen of the Desert (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283977)

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 01:08 AM
Ahh, haha, I am so bad at balancing. I don't want to even try playing with races. Sorry Riz.

Ok, my comment: I like it!

Rizban
2013-05-17, 01:10 AM
That doesn't preclude commenting. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, that project has literally been around for years and been heavily play tested. I'm mostly just posting it to share it with the Playground.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 02:22 AM
The Summoner It's true, I'm weaker than you, but I brought friends.

Prerequisites: ArchetypeName is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: An ArchetypeName gains Spell as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: An ArchetypeName gains proficiency with nets.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

My Friends (Su): The Summoner can cast summon monster 1 at will as a full round action, as normal. She can add one round to it's duration by channeling extra energy as a move action.
Share Spells (Ex): You may cast a touch attack spell and have your summoned monster deliver it as part of a normal melee action. You may also cast spells with a range of personal on your summons.
Superior Summons (Ex): Your summons cannot be repulsed by protection from evil simply for being summons.

Moderate Archetype Power

Friends in Low Places (Su): You can apply the fiendish template to any of your summons.
Friends on High (Su): Alternatively, you can apply the celestial template instead.
Many Friends (Ex): When you summon a single monster using your at will summoning, you may summon a second of the same exact monster. Doing so is difficult, however, and you must spend a full round action each turn concentrating, or one of them will be dismissed. You may still take 5ft steps. This spell can only be used for up to one minute at a time, and requires 5 minutes before it can be used again.


Greater Archetype Power

Rolling with a Tough Crowd(Su): Your ability to summon monsters at will upgrades, now you can cast summon monster 2 at will, this works in every other way as "My Friends"

Capstone: An ArchetypeName adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Vigorous Summons (Ex/Su/Sp): 3 times per encounter or whatever it was, you can use your vigor ability on your summons as a free action.
Magus – Tactical Resummoning (Ex/Su/Sp): 3 times per encounter you may use a swift (can I use swift actions in addition to full rounds? If not, a free action once per turn) to move your summons as if they had cast dimension door. Use this to chase down runners, or set up flanks, or ambushes.
Spellblade – Eldritch Infused Summons(Ex/Su/Sp): 3 times per encounter, as a non-action, you can have a summon of yours deal your eldritch blast damage on a successful hit. You must declare this before the attack roll is made, and missed attacks still cost uses. Alternatively, they can instead cast any of your spells as one of their attacks, but this still makes your spell reset timer of d4 rounds go off.

Spell List:
I don't know. For now, "red mage" plus the level appropriate summon spells.


ehhh, or something.

stack
2013-05-17, 07:29 AM
Rizban: the Farcuer is interesting, but the troubadour covers bonuses to social skills already and uses auras in place of bardic music. Not sure if there is enough left to build an entire archetype from without coming up with significant additions. Might be some things I'll pillage for the comedy role next time I go over the prosopon.

Regarding the hoplite; would it be too much go let the bullrush/overrun ability also deal shield bash damage? Its not full-on dungeon crasher (which would need an archetype of its own), but would be a nice addition.

Ran into a minor rules issue: there is no base damage listed for tower shields and the shield specialization feat doesn't include them.

darklink_shadow: Interesting take. I had considered having a long-term summon in my caller archetype. I like the action cost for sustaining it. Can you sustain more than one instance of SMI at a time with one move? Does the spell still run its normal duration before you need to concentrate?

The fiendish and celestial templates are already built in to SM(X) spells. I presume the moderate abilities are to allow you to summon either, as if you where a neutral summoner?

Many friends is...odd. You lose your whole turn for two SMI monsters? You could just use a normal spell slot and get 1d3(+1 w/ a feat) by casting SMII. You would get this at level 3, so its useful then, but ages poorly until the boost to SMII at level 6. Of course, it doesn't cost a spellslot, so that is a significant advantage.

Capstone are a bit uneven.
Augur-Free action vigor on summon 3/encounter is pretty strong. Probably be once/encounter and take a standard action. Need to specify how many you can use it on at once and if they are paid for separately (I would assume yes).
Magus - again, probably 1/encounter. Sweet idea though. Need to specify how many you can use it on at once.
Spellblade - probably follow the 'for three rounds' pattern established by similar powers.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 08:12 AM
darklink_shadow: Interesting take. I had considered having a long-term summon in my caller archetype. I like the action cost for sustaining it. Can you sustain more than one instance of SMI at a time with one move? Does the spell still run its normal duration before you need to concentrate?

The fiendish and celestial templates are already built in to SM(X) spells. I presume the moderate abilities are to allow you to summon either, as if you where a neutral summoner?

Many friends is...odd. You lose your whole turn for two SMI monsters? You could just use a normal spell slot and get 1d3(+1 w/ a feat) by casting SMII. You would get this at level 3, so its useful then, but ages poorly until the boost to SMII at level 6. Of course, it doesn't cost a spellslot, so that is a significant advantage.

Capstone are a bit uneven.
Augur-Free action vigor on summon 3/encounter is pretty strong. Probably be once/encounter and take a standard action. Need to specify how many you can use it on at once and if they are paid for separately (I would assume yes).
Magus - again, probably 1/encounter. Sweet idea though. Need to specify how many you can use it on at once.
Spellblade - probably follow the 'for three rounds' pattern established by similar
powers.

No, sustain just one, but the spell runs out as normal. You can just boost it with a move action. I was thinking of giving it a max duration of 1 hour, or something to help prevent a little cheese, or saying you can only give it +1 round once per round.

They... are? Ok, Shadow Creature or Draconic templates. I'm just throwing ideas out there, not even smart enough to see things like that...

If you feel this is too weak, what boost should it get? My idea was for you to basically lose your actions in order to just sit there and have two beefy guys go do things.

I suck at balancing.
One at once, yes. Seperate actions to buff more of them. 1/encounter is fine.
All of them at once. That's not going to be too many, and it's just teleportation around the battle field. Powerful, yes, but capstones should be strong.
Yeah, that. I meant that.

stack
2013-05-17, 09:13 AM
I decided I would add my thoughts to Hawk7915's spellguard archetype (My changes will be marked in italics).


SpellguardMost consider Arcane Magic to be a tool for war and destruction. The Spellguard instead focuses their arcane magic towards tactics, utility, and defense, the "Soft" style to contrast a Red Mage's "hard" style of spellcasting.

Prerequisites: Spellguard is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A Spellguard gains Knowledge: Arcana as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Spellguard gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Spellguard Features

Lesser Archetype Power


Spellcaster: A Spellguard casts arcane spells focused on protection, support, utility, and battlefield control.
Arcane Defense (Su): The Spellguard is a master of magic, and understands how to defend against it. They gain a +1 bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level.
Familiar:
Unweave: A spellguard learns force concentration, touch of dispelling, and dispel magic as bonus spells at the appropriate levels. If the spellguard prepares spells, she may choose to sacrifice any other spell she has prepared to spontaneously cast forced concentration, touch of dispelling, or dispel magic of the same level as the sacrificed spell. The spellguard knows and can prepare and cast these spells from memory and does not need to copy them into a spellbook if she uses one, and these spells do not count against her number of spells known.

Moderate Archetype Power Expanded Arcana (Ex):
Abjurant armor: When casting a spell that grants an armor, shield, or deflection bonus to AC, the Spellguard increases the bonus granted by half his class level (minimum +1).
Counterspell master: The spellguard receives a bonus equal to half her level on all checks made to counterspell.
Greater Archetype Power Bonus Feat:
Piercing Spells: The spellguard gains an insight bonus equal to half her level on all checks made to penetrate spell resistance.
Quick Defense: Once per round, the spellguard may quicken one abjuration of 1st level or lower without increasing spell level or casting time.
Capstone: A Spellguard adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Manipulate Magic (Su): You may apply a metamagic feat of cost 3 or less, even if you don't have the feat, for no mote cost and no increase in casting time.
Magus – Arcane Wayfarer (Sp): You may cast Dimension Door, as the spell.
Spellblade – Enchant Item (Su): For three rounds, you may add +2 worth of bonuses to a masterwork or enchanted weapon or piece of armor wielded by the Spellblade
Spellguard Spell List

0th-level Spells (Cantrips)

Daze
Detect Magic
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Prestidigitation
Read Magic

1st-level Spells

Alarm
Benign Transposition
Comprehend Languages
Endure Elements
Expeditious Retreat
Disguise Self
Feather Fall
Floating Disc
Force Concentration
Grease
Identify
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Magic Weapon
Protection from Alignment
Obscuring Mist
Reduce Person
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep

2nd level spells:

Alter Self
Arcane Step†
Baleful Transposition
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Daze Monster
Detect Thoughts
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Invisibility
Knock
Minor Image
Mirror Image
Owl's Wisdom
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Shatter
Touch of dispelling


3rd-level Spells:

Arcane Sight
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Dispel Magic
Displacement
Explosive Runes
Fly
Haste
Hold Person
Major Image
Protection from Energy
Sleet Storm
Slow
Water Breathing



Force Concentration
Abjuration
Level: Spellguard 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can attempt to foil an opposing caster, forcing them to focus to complete their spell.

When any creature in range attempts to cast a spell or spell-like ability, you can force them to make a concentration check equal to 10+your caster level or lose the spell.

Touch of Dispelling
Abjuration
Level: Spellguard 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched creature, object, or spell effect
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You unweave a spell with a mere touch

As dispel magic, limited to the targeted use. Cannot be used for counterspelling or area dispels. Dispelling an unwilling target requires a melee touch attack.

Arcane Step
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Spellguard 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 move action
Range: 10 feet/level
Target: You and touched objects or willing creatures.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (objects)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

With a word, you shimmer, flicker, and appear in a nearby location.

You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range and line of effect. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load). If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 10 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 10 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 100 feet. If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

Hope you don't mind, Hawk7915.

stack
2013-05-17, 01:22 PM
NightmareYou have mastered your fears. Now you master others by theirs.
Prerequisites: Nightmare is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A nightmare gains intimidate as a class skills if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A nightmare gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Spellcasting: A nightmare casts arcane spells by drawing on the primal fears of all living creatures.
Horror Manifest (Su): The nightmare can call a horror to do his bidding. The horror is an incorporeal manifestation of terror that aids the nightmare in battle by preying on his target's deepest fears. The horror is directed as a free action on the nightmare's turn. Any creature sharing the horror's space takes a -4 penalty on all saves verses fear. The horror has the statistics of a shadow, but lacks the create spawn ability and any mode of attack (except when used as a conduit for spells). The horror never provokes attacks of opportunity for entering an occupied space. The horror has HP equal to 1/2 the nightmare's normal maximum and uses the nightmare's base saves and base attack bonus, modified by its own ability scores. For all effects dependent on HD the horror is considered to have HD equal to the nightmare's level. If destroyed, the horror can be re-summoned with a 1 minutes ritual after resting. The nightmare suffers no penalty for his horror falling in battle. The nightmare may target the horror as if it was not incorporeal.
Fear and Darkness: A shadow learns Cause Fear, Scare, and Terror as bonus spells at the appropriate levels. If the nightmare prepares spells, he may choose to sacrifice any other spell he has prepared to spontaneously cast a Cause Fear, Scare, and Terror spell of the same level as the sacrificed spell. The nightmare knows and can prepare and cast these spells from memory and does not need to copy them into a spellbook if he uses one, and these spells do not count against his number of spells known.

Moderate Archetype Power

Aura of Fear (Su): A nightmare may project an aura of fear as a free action. Any hostile creature within 10 ft must make a will save (DC 10+level/2+casting modifier) or become shaken until leaving the aura. A creature who saves against this aura is unaffected by it for 24 hrs.
Piercing Horror (Su): Any creature sharing a space with the nightmare's horror does not gain the benefit of any immunity to fear it may possess, though a creature losing its immunity does not suffer the normal -4 against fear for occupying the horror's space.

Greater Archetype Power

Horrid Focus (Su): The nightmare may channel spells through his horror. The nightmare can cast any spell requiring a standard action as a full-round action, using his Horror as the point of origin for the spell. The nightmare must have line of sight and line of effect to his target. Spells which require an attack roll use the horror's statistics.
Growing Dismay: The nightmare adds half his class level to the HD cap of any spell he casts with the [fear] descriptor.
Capstone: An nightmare adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Channel Aura (Su): The augur may spend motes to increase the size of his aura of fear, the radius increasing by 5' per mote spent for three rounds.
Magus – Studied Fear (Ex/Su/Sp): The magus may add his esoteric knowledge bonus to the DC of any [mind affecting] spell he casts against a creature that is shaken, frightened, or cowering.
Spellblade – Strike the Weak (Ex): For three rounds the spellblade gains his spell power bonus against any creature that is shaken, frightened, or cowering.
Nightmare Spell List

0-Level Acid Splash
Daze
Detect Magic
Ghost Sound
Mage Hand
Message
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Touch of Fatigue
1st-level Bane
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Doom
Disguise Self
Entropic Shield
Inflict Light Wounds
Ray of Enfeeblement
Reduce Person
Sleep
Ventriloquism
2nd-level Command Undead
Darkness
Hold Person
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Invisibility
Scare
Silence
Spectral Hand
Spiderclimb
3rd-level Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Deeper Darkness
Inflict Critical Wounds
Nondetection
Phantom Steed
Ray of Exhaustion
Terror
Vampiric Touch

Terror
Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Nightmare 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: Up to CL creatures within 30' of each other
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 round
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Your foes flee before you.

Up to your caster level in creatures, who must all be within 30' of each other, becomes frightened for you CL rnds. A successful will save reduces this to shaken for 1 rnd. Target with more than 7 HD are unaffected.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 01:58 PM
I like that a lot!

It feels a little weaker, but thematically nice.

stack
2013-05-17, 02:04 PM
Heavy on the mind-affecting, but what can you do, given the theme? Thought about having the aura just tank fear saves and pierce immunities for the moderate power. Not sure. There's a few ways to get to the same place and its hard to pick the best. Also considered a touch or ray fear SLA, but it didn't make it in.

Thought about an invisibility/darkness themed skill archetype, but couldn't figure out how to make it DO anything useful. The nightmare started as darkness and fear themed, but there ended up being too many things at once.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 02:07 PM
Well, it could have an ability called

"Horror Manifest" which summons a creature that does wisdom drain. That would let me tank saves, and be nifty.

Rizban
2013-05-17, 02:09 PM
Well, it could have an ability called

"Horror Manifest" which summons a creature that does wisdom drain. That would let me tank saves, and be nifty.O.o

Yeah... that's not overpowered at all... Drain is way too strong for E6. Even just doing ability damage is really strong. Temporary ability penalties is about the only thing I'll be including.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 02:15 PM
I don't know power levels very well. If you say it's too strong, maybe it is. I can just tell when something has flavorful utility, and when it doesn't.

Horror Manifest could do anything, as long as it was scary, and helped do scary things.

Rizban
2013-05-17, 02:18 PM
Drain doesn't heal. Ever. You have to use high level magic to fix it. The lowest level spell that can heal drain is restoration, a 4th-level spell. 4th-level spells are beyond E6, therefore anything that takes a 4th-level or higher spell to undo is also beyond what is appropriate for E6.

Edit: Lesser restoration is a 2nd-level spell that can heal 1d4 ability damage, so ability damage is allowable, but it should be very, very rare.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-17, 02:23 PM
It could be the.. uh... other one. Damage?

And it doesn't need to even exist. I just come up with bad ideas, and you are supposed to fix them into working classes.

stack
2013-05-17, 02:36 PM
Actually, I really like the idea of horror manifest. A ghostly apparition chasing after your enemies and acting as a focus to channel your powers through.
Probably make it something like the dark companion for the hex blade, giving a penalty to saves rather than draining stats though. It could become a central ability.

Bother, now I have to redo the whole archetype.:smalleek:

Rizban
2013-05-17, 02:39 PM
stack, do you have Expedition to Castle Ravenloft? If so, take a look at the way they handle the Knight of the Raven's raven. That combined with the dark companion would make for something very interesting. An archetype focused on creating a being composed on the nightmares of his enemies... That could be really neat.

stack
2013-05-17, 02:48 PM
I've read it before. Have to look again to refresh my memory. I'm definitely doing it, even though it means scrapping half of the abilities I have done already.

Rizban
2013-05-17, 02:49 PM
I know how that is. I've had to do that with a few of the things I've made. :smallfrown:

stack
2013-05-17, 03:20 PM
Okay, take a look now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15254586&postcount=312). Horror manifest gives a strong debuff and can eventually pierce immunity and be used as a spell conduit. Added the inflict line for healing the horror, since it acts as an incorporeal undead (shadow sans attacks/create spawn).

planswalker
2013-05-18, 01:45 AM
Stress Test Thread Ahoy! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15258200#post15258200)

darklink_shadow
2013-05-18, 04:42 AM
I like that a lot, Stack.

D-naras
2013-05-18, 04:18 PM
I am kinda underwhelmed with the skirmisher's acrobat capstone. It's essentialy sneak attack when flanking, and it goes against the feel of that combo, at least to me. An acrobat skirmisher should be hoping all over the place, not staying in one spot to attack.

How about this for a capstone:
Acrobat – Acrobatic Skirmish (Ex) Whenever the acrobat uses Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Move Silently, or Tumble during combat, he may make an attack roll as a swift action. If this attack hits, treat the opponent as flat-footed for sneak attack purposes.

Rizban
2013-05-18, 04:32 PM
I think that's flavorful, but I'm really trying to limit the number of ways to gain extra attacks. I'll consider that or something like it though.

D-naras
2013-05-18, 05:07 PM
Alternatively, you could increase the bonus damage if any of those skills was used.
Also, shouldn't the acrobat get a speed bonus similar to the brawler? I realise this will make them similar, but low movement speed hurts a lot when trying to be so mobile. :smalltongue:
For example, a halfling acrobat, while good at the skill rolls, will only move half his 20' foot speed and will not go very far.

D-naras
2013-05-19, 06:08 AM
CourtierCourtiers are the problem solvers(or makers) of the political arena. They are masters of getting what they want by using their honeyed words and their silver tongues, even stopping aggresion momentarily. Of course, politics are dangerous so all courtiers eventually seek out protection in the form of a loyal bodyguard, both to ensure their survival, and to increase their prestige in court.

Prerequisites: Courtier is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A Courtier gains Diplomacy and Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Courtier gains proficiency with the Rapier and Buckler.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Social Graces (Ex): Courtiers gain a competence bonus of 2 + 1/2 their level on all Diplomacy checks. Whenever the Courtier is making a Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate or Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) check, he may instead roll Diplomacy with a -5 penalty.
Sancrosant (Ex): When the Courtier is attacked in melee by an opponent with an inteligence score of at least 3, he may roll Diplomacy as an immediate action with a DC of 10+the attacker's Hit Dice+the attacker's Base Attack Bonus+5 if the attacker is chaotic or -5 if the attacker is lawful.
If he beats the DC, the attacker immediately ends his turn, without attacking the Courtier and doesn't threaten any square until the beginning of his next turn. This ability can be used only once per opponent per battle.

Moderate Archetype Power

Bodyguard (Ex): Accomplished Courtiers are either assigned, or attract bodyguards to help them in court and protect them in battle. Thankfully these bodyguards are moderetaly competent in social situations and they add weight to a Courtiers words when they are with their charge.
You gain a companion of the same race and alignment as you, with a Strength, Dexterity and Constitution score of 14 and an Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma score of 10 before racial modifications. The companion has good base attack bonus, fortitude and will saves, d10 hit dice and 5 ranks in Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Spot and Listen. The bodyguard has 1+1/2 the Courtiers level in hit dice. The Courtier is responsible for the bodyguard's equipment, and he must provide it himself. If the bodyguard dies, a new one will appear within 2 days if the Courtier is in an urban area, or a week after the Courtier sends out word of the loss.
Finally, whenever the bodyguard is adjacent to his Courtier, the Courtier automaticaly enjoys a +2 in all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive rolls used in social situations as if the bodyguard used Aid Another.


Greater Archetype Power

Master of the Courts (Ex): A Courtier may take 10 on any Diplomacy roll, even when using his Lesser Archetype Powers.

Capstone: A Courtier adds one additional option to his class's capstone ability.

Acrobat –Know your place (Ex): When the acrobat uses his sancrosant ability succesfully, he and his bodyguard can move a distance equal to their speed. This movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. If they end up flanking the attacker, the bodyguard may make an attack of opportunity versus the attacker.
Expert – Shared Insight (Ex): For three rounds, any time the expert spends points of insight to gain a bonus on an attack roll, damage roll, saving throw, or skill check, he may instead gain half the normal bonus and have his bodyguard also gain an insight bonus equal to the bonus the expert normaly gains. This bonus applies on the next appropriate roll the bodyguard makes in that round. If an expert uses insight to boost his attack roll, then the companion gains a bonus on its next attack roll.
Trobadour – Perfect Cooperation (Ex): For three rounds, the trobadour's bodyguard gains double the bonuses from any inspiring aura used by the trobadour.

3SecondCultist
2013-05-19, 10:28 AM
That's a pretty powerful archetype you've got there, D-naras. Ending people's turns as a Lesser Power is nice, but the Bodyguard is a pretty abusable one, despite being the solitary Medium Power. In 3.5, you get a proper humanoid companion at 6th level. Any party with a Troubadour Courtier is going to be a good deal more powerful than one without.

That being said, I love this archetype. It's pretty much been the one I've been waiting for, and with a little tweaking it will probably be my favourite. You might want to change the wording on Sacrosanct to once per encounter, add a version of the Bodyguard power to Greater Power to replace Master of the Courts, and add two different Medium Powers. These are just suggestions, feel free to ignore me. :smallsmile:

darklink_shadow
2013-05-19, 02:35 PM
Rizban, trying to make a spellblade beastmster reveals that none of the spells I given to the spell blade in the first level slot are detrimental and touch. As in, the only spells he could channel into smacking people using the green mage list would be good for his target.

In fact, he only has one between all of level 0 and 1, that is "Flare."

He should have at least one first level spell debuff that he could use!

D-naras
2013-05-19, 03:04 PM
That's a pretty powerful archetype you've got there, D-naras. Ending people's turns as a Lesser Power is nice, but the Bodyguard is a pretty abusable one, despite being the solitary Medium Power. In 3.5, you get a proper humanoid companion at 6th level. Any party with a Troubadour Courtier is going to be a good deal more powerful than one without.

That being said, I love this archetype. It's pretty much been the one I've been waiting for, and with a little tweaking it will probably be my favourite. You might want to change the wording on Sacrosanct to once per encounter, add a version of the Bodyguard power to Greater Power to replace Master of the Courts, and add two different Medium Powers. These are just suggestions, feel free to ignore me. :smallsmile:

Thanks for the input! Glad you liked it :smallsmile:
Combatwise, i think the courtier is not as strong as a beastmaster, whose riding dog will have 6d8+12 hit points, 17 strength and dexterity, 20 AC unarmored, scent, and the ability to communicate with his master at will at 6th level. Not to mention the second animal companion :smalltongue:.
The Courtier will definitely need playtesting. Sancrosant, while powerful, can only be used once per opponent and only if the opponent attacks the courtier in melee, so its totally left up to the DM.

Rizban
2013-05-19, 05:02 PM
Rizban, trying to make a spellblade beastmster reveals that none of the spells I given to the spell blade in the first level slot are detrimental and touch. As in, the only spells he could channel into smacking people using the green mage list would be good for his target.

In fact, he only has one between all of level 0 and 1, that is "Flare."

He should have at least one first level spell debuff that he could use!

That is one of the downsides of Green Mage/Beastmaster. You can still conduct your blast even if you can't conduct spells.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-19, 05:25 PM
Bah, fine. If that is your choice.

stack
2013-05-20, 08:44 AM
D-naras - interesting archetype. I like it overall. I would maybe not give a bonus to diplomacy checks, as that overlaps with the troubadour's beguiling influence. Maybe make it fast diplomacy instead? Rizban has tried to avoid giving away too many class abilities as part of archetypes, though his feedback would be good before making a change here. The bodyguard need some clarification, I think, especially if you have more powerful races (which are often dealt with by using reduced point buys in E6). Taking 10 on diplomacy doesn't have to overlap with the expert's ability to take ten, since they pick a set of skills for that.

Rizban - Regarding perfect strike and unerring strike; first, the requirement for perfect strike to have character level 3 when the prerequisite feat already requires level 3 seems redundant (pedantic point).

More importantly, I think perfect strike should have its cost mitigated relative to unerring strike. With unerring strike, you can see what your first roll is, then decide. Perfect risks wasting FP. Unerring requires a swift, but I don't think that balances the cost. For the same two points that duelist, for example, spends of perfect strike, he could instead just make an extra attack (at -2) using rhythm (other archetypes don't get this ability and haste stacking are caveats here). Anyway, short version: I would like to see perfect strike only cost 1 FP (though that seems cheap) or have some other benefit to make it worth using instead of unerring strike. Maybe have it reduce or re-rolls miss chance similar to blindfight?

Back to pedantry, in the gladiator's ability list, fancy footwork should be above unorthodox maneuvers since it is granted first.

stack
2013-05-20, 01:26 PM
Re-worked the Cad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15239356&postcount=286) to be a bit cleaner.

Burnheart
2013-05-20, 01:51 PM
Just a problem i spotted, beastmaster and trapsmith can both be selected by magic classes which get spells from there archtype and while beastmaster has a note that says it gets greenmage spells, trapsmith does not have something similar so a magic class trapsmith has no spells at the moment.

Rizban
2013-05-20, 01:54 PM
I'm fully aware of the trapsmith's issue. There is also no list of tactical traps or rules for how to use them. I actually have both lists essentially finished as of last Thursday, but I haven't had time to look over them again before posting them. I'll try to get them up today.

Rizban
2013-05-20, 03:35 PM
Changelog General: Added Equipment section!


Archeype: Red Mage – Slight wording update
Archeype: Trapsmith
Tactical Traps ability updated
Tactical Traps list added!
Spell list added!
Typos corrected.
Acrobat capstone edited

Rizban
2013-05-20, 10:05 PM
Not to take away from planswalker, but I started up my own play test as well. This one will go a slightly different direction to try out other aspects of the system and will not have the same class/archetype combos as accepted characters.

Recruitment thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284375)

darklink_shadow
2013-05-20, 10:17 PM
Wait, does that mean you know who got into planeswalker's game? Awww... Spellblade/Beast Master isn't there.

Rizban
2013-05-20, 10:18 PM
No, I dont, not yet. I posted the list of all sheets posted when he did his review and said he was closing interest. If you get into his game, I'll change the barred combinations from mine to reflect that.

Please direct all further inquiry about the play tests to their appropriate threads, thank you.

planswalker
2013-05-20, 10:49 PM
Not to take away from planswalker, but I started up my own play test as well. This one will go a slightly different direction to try out other aspects of the system and will not have the same class/archetype combos as accepted characters.

Recruitment thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284375)

... take away?

What craziness is that? More like add to, since this gives ME a chance to submit a character!


Wait, does that mean you know who got into planeswalker's game? Awww... Spellblade/Beast Master isn't there.

I'd have been really impressed if he did, since *I* don't know yet.

Jeriah
2013-05-20, 11:09 PM
Changelog General: Added Equipment section!


Archeype: Red Mage – Slight wording update
Archeype: Trapsmith
Tactical Traps ability updated
Tactical Traps list added!
Spell list added!
Typos corrected.
Acrobat capstone edited
Nice. I like the way you implemented those tactical traps. It's not quite how I would have done it, but I really like it. I'm still trying to talk my group into using this system.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-20, 11:25 PM
If a bugbear sets off a trapsmith's trap, and then later gets hit very hard in the head by a hammer, can the trapsmith go and collect his trap for the components? Salvage the remains and use them to build more traps? Or does he spend 5g per attack?

Rizban
2013-05-20, 11:27 PM
What does getting hit in the head by a hammer have to do with anything? :smallconfused:

No, once used, the components are consumed. As written though, a Trapsmith can use Disable Device on any trap, including his own, to disassemble it and collect components.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-20, 11:29 PM
Not even caltrops? He can't recover them?

I know he can disable device, but can he disable device on traps that have gone off for parts?

Also the hammer kills the bugbear, to get him out of the way for the dwarf trap smith to get his traps back. Duh...

Rizban
2013-05-20, 11:31 PM
If a tactical trap has been activated, it can not be salvaged for components. It is a makeshift trap that functions as intended but breaks after the first use.

Yes, it effectively costs 5gp per trap, though he can salvage any traps the party encounters when he disables them to get free components.

Edit: Also already included in the trapsmith entry, if he sets a tactical trap, and the trap is not triggered, he may disable it later to recover the components.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-05-21, 10:51 AM
(Wombat's Review of)Skillful Classes(Part 2.B)


The Expert
Knacks

General Knacks

General Knacks may be selected by any Expert, regardless of specialization.

I approve of a list of things anyone can take. Even if it is smaller than the rest (and that's fine with me).


Greater Skill Mastery (Ex): Upon selecting this knack, an expert selects two more skills to which his skill mastery ability applies.
Prerequisites: Skill Mastery
Special: This knack may be gained multiple times. Each time it is gained, the expert selects another two skills.

So this can be selected as a 3rd or 4th knack, since an expert gains Skill Mastery at level 5.


Improved Insight: Upon gaining this knack, an expert gains an additional point of Insight.
Special: This knack may be gained multiple times. Its effects stack.

A handy knack to have, given the uses that insight provides!


Trapfinding: The expert gains trapfinding. See the Trapsmith lesser archetype power.

So this knack grants you the ability of a the Trapsmith archetype? Interesting. I wonder if more knacks in the three other categories will have this sort of thing...Guess we'll find out!


Craftsman Knacks


Efficient Construction (Ex): When selecting this knack, the craftsman selects one specific Craft skill. When making masterwork items using the selected skill, the material cost to create them is reduced by 25%.
Prerequisite: 4 ranks in the selected Craft skill.
Special: This knack may be gained multiple times. It's effects do not stack. Each time it is gained, it applies to a different Craft skill.

I honestly am a big fan of crafting, especially since I see it as an excellent thing that is mostly ignored in the game. I commend you for having these knacks to help revive this skill!


Imbued Creation (Su): Despite not being able to cast spells, a craftsman learns to create magic items. This follows all the normal rules for crafting magic items, including needing the appropriate item creation feats, with the following exception. A craftsman need not provide the prerequisite spells for a magic item; instead, he makes a Use Magic Device check (DC 20 + caster level) to emulate each spell normally required to craft the item. He may attempt to emulate each spell only once per day and must succeed on emulating every spell necessary to craft the item before it can be completed. If the item would normally be completed before he has succeeded on every check, the item remains unfinished until he can succeed, and he must spend a full day crafting in order to make the attempt.
Prerequisite: Craft (any) 6 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 6 ranks
Special: For the purpose of crafting magic items and gaining item creation feats, a craftsman with this knack is treated as having a caster level equal to his class level minus 1.

This is quite interesting...I find it very strange that a non-caster could even emulate a spell to create a magical item. Then again, if you have magic a bit different in this system, I suppose it might not be as irregular.


Quality Workmanship (Ex): With this knack, a craftsman is able to create items of superior quality. When gaining this knack, the craftsman must select a specific Craft skill. Mastwork items crafted with the selected skill grant twice the normal masterwork bonus; i.e. weapons have a +2 on attack rolls, tools grant a +4 bonus, and the armor check penalty of armor is reduced by 2.
Prerequisite: 6 ranks in the selected Craft skill.
Special: This knack may be gained multiple times. It's effects do not stack. Each time it is gained, it applies to a different Craft skill.

I like this a lot. What happens if the craft check fails? Does it ruin the masterwork or does it stay masterwork?


Rapid Construction: When selecting this knack, the craftsman selects one specific Craft skill. When making items using the selected skill, the progress made on completing the item is measured in gold pieces instead of silver pieces. If crafting by the day instead of by the week, the progress is measured in silver pieces instead of copper pieces.
Prerequisite: 4 ranks in the selected Craft skill.
Special: This knack may be gained multiple times. It's effects do not stack. Each time it is gained, it applies to a different Craft skill.

I'm not sure if this is me not fully knowing something about craft, but this business of measuring in gold instead of silver pieces has confused me. If so, could you quote it here instead of linking it, as I am not able to open off site links on this computer. I just need some clarification on this...


Reagent Mastery (Ex): After gaining this knack, a craftsman is treated as though he were a spellcaster for the purposes of crafting items using Craft (Alchemy)
Prerequisite: Craft (Alchemy) 1 rank

So a crafter can make potions by using this knack, similar to the knack for creating magical items?


Renowned Craftsman (Ex): When using a Craft skill to earn a living, a craftsman gains his full skill check in gold pieces instead of half as normal for a week of work.
Special: This knack may be gained twice. The second time it is gained, the craftsman instead gains twice his skill check in gold pieces for a week of work.

So a knack to better advance your income. Nice!


Skilled Crafting (Ex): When making a Craft check using a Craft skill in which he has no ranks, a craftsman may treat the skill as though it had ranks equal to half the number of skill ranks of his highest Craft skill rounded down. For example, a craftsman with 8 ranks in Craft (leatherworking) and 0 ranks in Craft (basketweaving) could make a Craft (basketweaving) check as though he had 4 ranks in it. Ability modifiers and other bonuses are applied as normal.

This is a handy knack to have! I like that this is echoed in the other two categories as well. I like all of these Craftsmen Knacks. I hope the Rapid Construction one lessens the amount of time it takes to craft something.


Professional Knacks


Apprentice: Upon gaining this knack, a professional gains a skilled assistant in his work. The professional gains a cohort as though he had the Leadership feat, but he does not gain any followers. His leadership score is calculated using the number of ranks in his highest Profession skill rather than his character level. As normal, the cohort must be two or more levels lower than the professional.
Prerequisite: Profession (any) 6 ranks

So the apprentice assists in the professional's work alone, and in no other manner? Does he aid the Expert in checks? Give bonuses? Or allow double the work because two people are now doing it?


Fast Talk (Ex): A professional knows how to sell, bargain, and convince people something is worth more or less than it is. With this knack, a professional adds half his class level, rounded down, on any Bluff, Diplomacy, or Gather Information check related to goods, services, or trade in some way.

Good in writing "more or less". I like this.


Journeyman (Ex): A number of times per day equal to the professional's Intelligence modifier, the professional's apprentice may make a Profession check using the professional's skill modifier instead of his own.
Prerequisite: Profession (any) 8 ranks, Apprentice knack.

Ah, so the Apprentice is just the start to a knack tree in this aspect.


Savvy Trader: A professional has learned how to buy at the best prices, allowing him locate a particular item he wishes to buy at a discount. When gaining this knack, he must select a specific Profession skill. Once per week, a professional can make a Profession check to locate a particular item he wishes to buy. The item must be in some way related to the selected skill. If his skill check beats the DC set by the DM, he is able to purchase the item at a 25% discount.
The DC is 15 + the items rarity modifier: +0 for common items, +2 for uncommon items, +5 for rare items, or +10 for extremely rare items. Illegal items add another +5 to the DC. The item a professional tries to buy may not always be available, even if he beats the DC, especially if the item is rare or illegal.
Prerequisite: 6 ranks in the selected Profession skill.

Interesting. Can this stack with the "fast talk" knack?


Trade Pidgin (Ex): Learning a smattering of words and phrases from many different languages, a professional can learn to communicate with almost anyone. He is treated as constantly being under the effect of a tongues spell.
Prerequisite: Fast Talk knack

Oh, this is pretty interesting...I like this. It's a shame we don't see more things like this. No idea what...but yeah.

A lot of these knacks seem to be something that would also make sense for the craftsman to have, such as an apprentice. I know you're trying to make each its own, but it just seemed a little odd to have it here and not there to me. Could someone have Profession: Craftsman?


Sage Knacks



Greater Insight (Ex): Through extensive study, sages tend to gather deeper insight than most. Upon gaining this knack, a sage gains a number of points of Insight equal to 2 + number of times he has taken the Improved Insight knack.
Prerequisite: Improved Insight knack

A nice stack with it's prereq, I could see certain experts becoming insight focused. A nice thing to focus on.


Know Weakness (Ex): If a sage correctly identifies a creature with a Knowledge check, he can use this knack to identify that creature's vulnerabilities. When using Insight Points against that creature, any variable bonuses are increased by +2.
Prerequisite: Knowledge (arcana, dungeoneering, local, nature, religion, or the planes) 5 ranks.
Special: A sage must have at least 5 ranks in the related Knowledge skill to use this knack with that skill; however, taking this knack once allows it to apply to all Knowledge skills in which the sage has at least 5 ranks.

So, say I had knowledge: nature, I'd know about animal vulnerabilities. But if I'd also had say, 5 ranks in planes or religion also, I'd know about creatures specific to those knowledges too.


Lore (Ex): With this knack, a sage may make a special lore check with a bonus equal to his sage level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. A successful lore check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A sage may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.{table=head]DC|Type of Knowledge
10|Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population.
20|Uncommon but available, known by only a few people legends.
25|Obscure, known by few, hard to come by.
30|Extremely obscure, known by very few, possibly forgotten by most who once knew it, possibly known only by those who don’t understand the significance of the knowledge.[/table]
Special: If the sage has a least 5 ranks in a Knowledge skill, he gains a +2 bonus to lore checks related to that skill.

Bolded area: Do you mean Sage level or Expert level? Otherwise this is an excellent knack!


Magic Aptitude (Sp): Many sage's studies delve deep into mystical lore. A sage with this knack has learned some minor magical skills. He learns a number of cantrips from any spell list equal to his Intelligence modifier and may cast them a total number of times per day equal to 4 + his Intelligence modifier; however, casting a cantrip requires spending a point of Insight. These cantrips do not suffer from an arcane failure chance.
Prerequisite: Knowledge (arcana or religion) 6 ranks

Interesting. Connecting Cantrips to Insight is an cool way of doing it, especially if you're taking the added insight knacks.


Master Linguist (Ex): Having learned a great number of languages during his studies, a sage can communicate with almost anyone. He is treated as constantly being under the effect of a tongues spell. In addition, he gains a bonus on all Decipher Script checks equal to his class level.
Prerequisite: Must know at least 4 languages

Alright. Different prereqs, same knack. Works for me!


tl:dr - Overall, I like these, especially the Sage knacks. Nice work.

stack
2013-05-21, 11:05 AM
from the SRD: To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.

Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
Find the DC from the table below.
Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.

So Rapid Construction makes crafting MUCH faster.

I believe Quality Workmanship applies when making a new item, so there is no separate skill check to get the bonus increase, just the usual rules for crafting a MW item.

Reagent Mastery is so you can make alchemical items (acid flask, alchemist's fire, etc). Normally you have to be a caster. This is separate from enchanting items.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-05-21, 11:25 AM
from the SRD: To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.

Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
Find the DC from the table below.
Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials.
Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.

So Rapid Construction makes crafting MUCH faster.

I believe Quality Workmanship applies when making a new item, so there is no separate skill check to get the bonus increase, just the usual rules for crafting a MW item.

Reagent Mastery is so you can make alchemical items (acid flask, alchemist's fire, etc). Normally you have to be a caster. This is separate from enchanting items.

@ - Ah! Someone else reads my stuff. :smallcool:

@ - Ah, that quoted SRD makes a bunch more sense...I wish it were much more simplified, but alas. That makes things heck of a lot faster indeed.

@ - I know enchanting and making potions are two seperate things. I was referencing the fact that it was a similarity in the fact that both knacks allowed you to do magical things despite not being magical. However, I appreciate the clarification.

Rizban
2013-05-21, 02:22 PM
I'm only going to respond to the comments that I feel need response rather than to everything as I usually do. I've got kind of limited time this afternoon.



TraspfindingSo this knack grants you the ability of a the Trapsmith archetype? Interesting. I wonder if more knacks in the three other categories will have this sort of thing...Guess we'll find out!That is correct, though that is the only aspect of that archetype granted by this knack. I wanted there to be more than one option for dealing with being the party trap finder, though the trapsmith archetype is still the more potent option by far.



Efficient ConstructionI honestly am a big fan of crafting, especially since I see it as an excellent thing that is mostly ignored in the game. I commend you for having these knacks to help revive this skill!Do note that this only applies to masterwork items. I did not intend for that to extend to providing cheaper magic items, though I also chose not to explicitly forbid it, leaving that particular interpretation up to each individual DM. I feel that the rule as written is explicit enough that the actual rule and intent of the rule match and can be determined without explicitly trying to lock out other interpretations that could be appropriate to other games.




Imbued CreationThis is quite interesting...I find it very strange that a non-caster could even emulate a spell to create a magical item. Then again, if you have magic a bit different in this system, I suppose it might not be as irregular.I didn't want the class focused on crafting to not be able to craft things that other classes can. That just seemed stupid from a design point.
That said, I justify it to myself as him learning which materials are innately magical and how to incorporate them into items in patterns of power that emulate the way spells are used to create magic items. The UMD check is him trying to "create the arcane matrix" as opposed to him casting a spell.



Quality WorkmanshipI like this a lot. What happens if the craft check fails? Does it ruin the masterwork or does it stay masterwork?
I realized prior to your review how much this knack needs to be edited to make it more clear. For now, let's just ignore it...



Reagent MasterySo a crafter can make potions by using this knack, similar to the knack for creating magical items?No, he can make things like acid vials, alchemist's fire, and tanglefoot bags. These items don't require spells to craft but still require you to be a spellcaster to craft them. One of the stupidest rules in 3.5. Two different knacks for two different applications of the Craft skill.




ApprenticeSo the apprentice assists in the professional's work alone, and in no other manner? Does he aid the Expert in checks? Give bonuses? Or allow double the work because two people are now doing it?It's a cohort as per the Leadership feat. Whatever specifics are left up to the DM, though this knack (and Journeyman) assumes that the cohort is also an Expert (Professional).




Savvy TraderInteresting. Can this stack with the "fast talk" knack?That's entirely up to the DM. Fast Talk explicitly only grants a bonus on certain skill checks while this ability explicitly grants a discount on purchasing an item. Though it is implied that Fast Talk can be used to haggle prices, it is entirely up to the DM as to whether or not the skill check results can affect prices. In my games, I allow haggling and thus would allow them to potentially stack on a good roll.


A lot of these knacks seem to be something that would also make sense for the craftsman to have, such as an apprentice. I know you're trying to make each its own, but it just seemed a little odd to have it here and not there to me. Could someone have Profession: Craftsman?Well, Craft and Profession are very similar skills. Even the PHB makes not of that and dedicates several sentences to explaining why they aren't. In short, Craft makes something while Profession trades something.
There are definitely knacks on each list that could benefit the other, but they are on separate lists not only to allow a flavor difference but because having both could be potentially overly powerful.
That said, I believe I would enjoy a game where one player was a Professional,the other was a Craftsman, and the two work together to build a business selling fine goods.

I don't think "Profession (craftsman)" is one of the available options, and I'd be hesitant to allow it in my games. If I did allow it though, there's nothing in my rules or in the d20 rules that would allow Profession to function as Craft or select knacks not on your list.



Know WeaknessSo, say I had knowledge: nature, I'd know about animal vulnerabilities. But if I'd also had say, 5 ranks in planes or religion also, I'd know about creatures specific to those knowledges too.It explicitly applies to any Knowledge skill you can use to identify a creature in which have at least 5 ranks. Your interpretation is correct. You only have to select this knack once to gain its full benefits, assuming you spend the requisite skill points in the appropriate skill.



LoreBolded area: Do you mean Sage level or Expert level? Otherwise this is an excellent knack!They're one and the same. In all the knack lists, I drop the word "Expert" in preference for either "Craftsman," "Professional," or "Sage" to more clearly indicate that the options are available only to those specialization. I'll change this ability to "class level" for reasons of clarity though.

Kerleth
2013-05-21, 10:49 PM
Wow, looks like a lot has been added. I'll have to spend some time reading through all the new goodies. I apologize if I disappeared mid discussion with anyone. Between overtime at work and a family emergency, I just didn't have the time to keep up with this project. I just wanted to commend everyone on their dedication, as well as thank Rizban and others who responded to any ideas I had. Wish that I could have contributed more. I'll probably just lurk for awhile, at least until I familiarize myself with all the new material. Best of luck to everyone, and hat's off to you.

Rizban
2013-05-21, 10:58 PM
There's still plenty of material left to write, including two more whole projects after this one! So, don't get discouraged. There's still lots that you can do to contribute, and I'm very grateful for all the help you've provided so far.

wayfare
2013-05-21, 11:02 PM
For the acrobat, might I suggest an AC progression of 1/2/2/3/3/4? Its not a big thing, but I think it flows better on the table. No big thing either way.

Also, hows about some kind of acrobatic charge style ability? This class seems like mobility is a major focus, so it could be a good addition.

For the expert, how will +2 masterwork items stack/be effected by with enhancement bonuses?

Rizban
2013-05-21, 11:07 PM
For the acrobat, might I suggest an AC progression of 1/2/2/3/3/4? Its not a big thing, but I think it flows better on the table. No big thing either way.

Also, hows about some kind of acrobatic charge style ability? This class seems like mobility is a major focus, so it could be a good addition.

For the expert, how will +2 masterwork items stack/be effected by with enhancement bonuses?

It may be prettier on the table, but I think what exists will work better for balance vs the other classes.

You mean 90 degree turn on a charge? It already has that, gained at 1st level.

They never stack. If the enhancement bonus is higher, then use that. Otherwise, use the masterwork bonus.

wayfare
2013-05-21, 11:10 PM
It may be prettier on the table, but I think what exists will work better for balance vs the other classes.

You mean 90 degree turn on a charge? It already has that, gained at 1st level.

They never stack. If the enhancement bonus is higher, then use that. Otherwise, use the masterwork bonus.

I was thinking of a really acrobatic charge -- like just flat-out being able to make any kind of turn. Also, maybe something to avoid difficult terrain -- or would you consider that built in to the leaping abilities?

Rizban
2013-05-21, 11:14 PM
Any turns is a bit stronger than I'd like.

The Skirmisher archetype's greater power has the terrain benefit you mentioned already.

Darth_Versity
2013-05-22, 09:00 AM
Any turns is a bit stronger than I'd like.

The Skirmisher archetype's greater power has the terrain benefit you mentioned already.

Try the Swashbuckler style of acrobatic charge from complete warrior.

Also, i'm working on a Specialist Mage archtype. Not sure if anyone else has made anything like that. Should have it up later today.

stack
2013-05-22, 09:11 AM
Spell WeaverA skilled mage can see the invisible strands that tie all beings together and can subtly reweave them to his liking.

Prerequisites: Spell Weaver is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A spell weaver gains spellcraft and knowledge (arcana) as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A spell weaver gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Spellcasting: A spell weaver specializes in transmutation magic, casting arcane spells drawn from the spell weaver spell list.
Eldritch Tapestry (Sp): As a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, the spell weaver may weave a willing target that he is touching into his eldritch tapestry. A spell weaver may have a number of creatures in his tapestry equal to his casting modifier or his class level, whichever is higher, not counting himself. A creature must have a wisdom of 1 or greater to be part of the tapestry. A creature can remove itself from the tapestry, or be removed by the spell weaver, as a free action. A creature is aware that it is part of the tapestry. The weave extends 25 ft + 5 ft per level. Leaving this area does not remove on from the tapestry, but a creature outside this range is not affected by any ability dependent on the tapestry. If a creature in the tapestry is killed, the spell weaver takes non-lethal damage equal to twice the creatures HD and must make a will save equal to 10 + the creature's HDx2 or be sickened for a number of rounds equal to the creature's HD. A creature may be part of any number of weaves simultaneously.
Weave Casting: The spell weaver may treat all creatures in his tapestry as if he is touching them for the purpose of casting spells.

Moderate Archetype Power

Wide Weave: When casting a spell that targets a single creature over the weave, the spell weaver may simultaneously cast a spell on any number of creatures in the tapestry. Doing so raises the level of the spell by +1, as if using metamagic, using the metamagic rules for the caster's class, though casting time is always increased to a standard action for a swift action spell or a full-round action for a move or standard action spell.
Share Senses:The spell weaver may share one sense of a willing creature in his weave as a full round action. The creature must be in range of the tapestry and can end the sharing at any time. This effect may be maintained indefinitely, but requires concentration as if a spell. A full round action is required to switch which single sense is shared.
Greater Archetype Power

Personal Thread: The spell weaver may now cast spells with range: personal over the tapestry, treating them as if they had a target of one creature and a range of touch for purposes of the tapestry.
Mental Strands: All members of the tapestry may communicate telepathically with each other if they so choose.[/list]
Capstone: A spell weaver adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Vigorous Weave (Sp): For three rounds, the auger may use his vigor ability on any creature in his weave.
Magus – Masterful Tapestry (Sp): The magus may cast a spell through his wide weave ability without increasing the spell's level.
Spellblade – Quicken Weave (Sp): A spellblade may cast a spell using his wide weave ability as a swift action, but must make a fortitude save DC 10+spell level x 2 or be sickened for a number of rounds equal to the spell level.

Spell Weaver Spell List

0-Level Arcane Mark
Guidance
Detect Magic
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Read Magic
Resistance
1st-level Feather Fall
Endure Elements
Expeditious Retreat
Enlarge Person
Mage Armor
Jump
Magic Weapon
Rejuvenation† (minor)
Sanctuary
Shield
Remove Fear
2nd-level Aid
Bestial Might†
Darkvision
False Life
Invisibility
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Pyrotechnics
Spider Climb
3rd-level Blink
Haste
Fly
Keen Edge
Magic Weapon, Greater
Magic Vestment
Protection from Energy
Slow
Water Breathing

Bestial Might
Transmutation
Level: Spell Weaver 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You gain the totemic characteristics of your chosen animal.

Chose one ability score(either Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma). You receive a +4 enhancement bonus to that score. You take on minor characteristics of the animal tied to that score (bull, cat, bear, fox, owl, eagle respectively).

(I didn't want the entire second level list to be individual animal buffs. It works fine as one psionic power, so why not make it one spell?)

stack
2013-05-22, 12:24 PM
Its been a few hours since my last archetype post, so here's the <tada>


MagicianWho needs years of study, divine intervention, or monstrous heritage to use magic when you can just fake it?

Prerequisites: Magician is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A magician gains sleight of hand and UMD as a class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A magician gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Tricky Wand: The magician starts play with a personal wand. This wand is unique in that it has unlimited charges and the UMD DC to activate it is 15+the number of times it has been activated during the current day. It may hold any spell or combination of spells of total spell level no higher than class level/2, with cantrips counting as 0.5 levels. The selection of spells contained may be changed once a week or when leveling. The caster level is always equal to the magician's level and any spell DC is set using the magician's highest mental ability modifier.
Skilled activation (Ex): The magician gains a bonus equal to his level on all UMD checks.
Deceptive Devices (Ex): A flick of the wrist, a few nonsense words. The magician can chose to conceal his reliance on magic items. A spellcraft check opposed by the magician's sleight of hand check is required to notice that a spell completion or spell trigger item was used to cast a spell rather than an innate spellcasting ability.
Moderate Archetype Power

Hammer Space (Su): Where'd the rabbit go? The magician gains access to an extra-dimensional storage space that only he can access. Treat this as a handy haversack with a capacity of 2 cubic feet or 20 lbs per level. If the magician is killed, the contents appear adjacent to his body class level rounds after his death. Additionally, scrolls or wands may be drawn from this space as a swift action.
Stage magic (Sp):The magician may cast dancing lights, ghost sound, and prestidigitation as spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to his level plus his highest mental ability modifier.
Steady Hand (Ex): The magician may take 10 on all UMD checks, even is rushed or threatened.
Greater Archetype Power

Dual-wands (Ex): The magician may activate two wands as a full-round action.
Masterful Activation (Ex): The magician may spend a full round activating a spell completion or spell trigger item. The item then uses the magician's level as it's caster level and the magician's highest mental ability modifier to determine the save DC, if any.

Capstone: An Magician adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Easy Target (Ex): The acrobat may add half his skilled acrobat bonus to the save DC of one spell from a spell completion or spell trigger item activation against a flat-footed opponent.
Expert – Insightful Activation (Su): For three rounds expert may spend insight points in place of item charges, expending one point of insight per level of the spell being cast.
Troubadour – Great Distraction (Su): For three rounds the penalty from the distraction aura is doubled if the troubadour expends castings of his stage magic ability as a free action each round.

Darth_Versity
2013-05-22, 12:42 PM
Ok, this is my specialist mage archtype. It gives the Specialist Wizard option of traditional D&D without being boring or to powerful (I think :smalleek:). Let me know what you think.


Specialist MageSpecialist mages focus their magical power on a particular area of expertise, giving up power in other areas to be better at their focus.

Prerequisites: Specialist Mage is only available Magic classes.
Archetype Skills: A Specialist Mage gains Knowledge (arcana) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Specialist Mage gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.


Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Spellcasting: A specialist mage casts arcane spells and specializes in a single school of magic.
Specialisation (Ex): Focusing in one area, a specialist mage selects one school of magic to be his Specialty, and one school to give up forever, from those available (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy and Transmutation). Any spell from the school that is given up are removed from the specialist mages spell list and can never be learned through any means. At each level (including 1st) the specialist mage may learn an additional spell of his speciality school from his spell list which does not count towards his number of spells known.
School Focus: A specialist mage learns School Focus† as a bonus spell at first level. If the specialist mage prepares spells, he may choose to sacrifice any other spell he has prepared to spontaneously cast this spell. The sacrificed spell must be the same or higher level as the spell being cast. The specialist mage knows and can prepare and cast these spells from memory and does not need to copy them into a spellbook if he uses one, and these spells do not count against his number of spells known.
Moderate Archetype Power Metamagic Feat: A specialist mage gains a Metamagic feat of their choice.
Spell Power (Su): A specialist mage focuses his power to enhance his specialisation. He gains a +1 to the save DC of any spell cast from his Specialist school. At 5th level he also gains a +1 to his Caster Level for any spell from his Specialist school.
Greater Archetype Power Metamagic Reduction A specialist mage more easily alter and control his specialisation. He may reduce the total level increase of any Metamagic feats applied to spells of his Specialist school by 1.
Capstone: A specialist mage adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability.
Augur – Specialist Surge (Su): When casting a spell of your Specialist school, using Spirit Surge does not count towards your maximum number of Spirit Surges per day.
Magus – Esoteric Specialisation (Su): For three rounds, the magus adds his esoteric knowledge bonus to the save DC of his Specialist school.
Spellblade – Eldritch Specialisation(Su): When using Spell Conduit with an area effect spell of the Specialisation school, the spell activates as normal instead of just on the target. The Spellblade may ignore a number of targets in the spells effect equal to his CHA mod (he must include himself as one of the ignored targets if he wishes to avoid the effects)
Specialist Mage Spell List

{table="head"]Level |Abjuration |Conjuration |Divination |Enchantment |Evocation |Illusion |Necromancy |Transmutation
0 |Resistance |Acid Splash |Detect Magic |Daze |Dancing Lights |Ghost Sound |Touch of Fatigue |Mage Hand |Read Magic |Ray of Frost |Open/Close
1 |Endure Elements |Mage Armor |Comprehend Languages |Charm Person |Burning Hands |Color Spray |Cause Fear |Enlarge Person
1 |Protection from Evil/Good/Chaos/Law |Obscuring Mist |Detect Secret Doors |Hypnotism |Magic Missle |Silent Image |Chill Touch |Feather Fall
1 |Shield |Summon Monster 1 |Identify |Distract Assailant (SC) |Shocking Grasp |Ventriloquism |Ray of Enfeeblement |Magic Weapon
2 |Protection from Arrows |Glitterdust |Detect Thoughts |Daze Monster |Gust of Wind |Blur |False Life |Alter Self
2 |Resist Energy |Summon Monster 2 |See Invisibility |Tasha's Hideous Laughter |Scorching Ray |Minor Image |Scare |Spider Climb
3 |Dispel Magic |Sleet Storm |Clairaudience/Clairvoyance |Heroism |Fireball |Displacement |Halt Undead |Haste
3 |Explosive Runes |Summon Monster 3 |Tongues |Hold Person |Lightning Bolt |Major Image |Vampiric Touch |Slow
[/table]

School FocusUniversal
Level: Specialist Mage 1
Components: V
Casting Time: special; see text
Range: Personal
Target: Special; see text
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell targets another spell as you cast it. If the spell being cast is of the Specialist School this spell is a free action, if not it takes a move action. The action must be taken at the same time as the spell finishes casting, so a spell that fizzles out for any reason does not waste this spell as well. This spell counts as a spell of the same school it is affecting.

When cast, the spell affected increases any DC's by 1. You also gain an additional effect dependant on the spell school, which lasts for 1 round.

Abjuration: Gain a bonus on saving throws equal to the spells level
Conjuration: Gain a teleportation speed of 5' per spell level
Divination: Gain a +1 insight bonus to AC
Enchantment: Gain a bonus on attack rolls equal to the spells level
Evocation: Gain a bonus on spell damage rolls equal to the spells level
Illusion: Gain 5% miss chance per level of the spell (stacks with any other miss chance)
Necromancy: Gain DR /- equal to the spells level
Transmutation: Gain Temp HP equal to twice the spells level

Darth_Versity
2013-05-22, 01:10 PM
Its been a few hours since my last archetype post, so here's the <tada>


MagicianWho needs years of study, divine intervention, or monstrous heritage to use magic when you can just fake it?

Prerequisites: Magician is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A magician gains sleight of hand and UMD as a class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A magician gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Tricky Wand: The magician starts play with a personal wand. This wand is unique in that it has unlimited charges and the UMD DC to activate it is 15+the number of times it has been activated during the current day. It may hold any spell or combination of spells of total spell level no higher than class level/2, with cantrips counting as 0.5 levels. The selection of spells contained may be changed once a week or when leveling. The caster level is always equal to the magician's level and any spell DC is set using the magician's highest mental ability modifier.
Skilled activation (Ex): The magician gains a bonus equal to his level on all UMD checks.
Deceptive Devices (Ex): A flick of the wrist, a few nonsense words. The magician can chose to conceal his reliance on magic items. A spellcraft check opposed by the magician's sleight of hand check is required to notice that a spell completion or spell trigger item was used to cast a spell rather than an innate spellcasting ability.
Moderate Archetype Power

Hammer Space (Su): Where'd the rabbit go? The magician gains access to an extra-dimensional storage space that only he can access. Treat this as a handy haversack with a capacity of 2 cubic feet or 20 lbs per level. If the magician is killed, the contents appear adjacent to his body class level rounds after his death. Additionally, scrolls or wands may be drawn from this space as a swift action.
Stage magic (Sp):The magician may cast dancing lights, ghost sound, and prestidigitation as spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to his level plus his highest mental ability modifier.
Steady Hand (Ex): The magician may take 10 on all UMD checks, even is rushed or threatened.
Greater Archetype Power

Dual-wands (Ex): The magician may activate two wands as a full-round action.
Masterful Activation (Ex): The magician may spend a full round activating a spell completion or spell trigger item. The item then uses the magician's level as it's caster level and the magician's highest mental ability modifier to determine the save DC, if any.

Capstone: An Magician adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Easy Target (Ex): The acrobat may add half his skilled acrobat bonus to the save DC of one spell from a spell completion or spell trigger item activation against a flat-footed opponent.
Expert – Insightful Activation (Su): For three rounds expert may spend insight points in place of item charges, expending one point of insight per level of the spell being cast.
Troubadour – Great Distraction (Su): For three rounds the penalty from the distraction aura is doubled if the troubadour expends castings of his stage magic ability as a free action each round.


I really like this. The only thing I think it is missing is some way to take and use magical crafting feats so that they can not only make new wands, but also replace a magical class for crafting altogether.

stack
2013-05-22, 01:15 PM
I really like this. The only thing I think it is missing is some way to take and use magical crafting feats so that they can not only make new wands, but also replace a magical class for crafting altogether.

Crossed my mind, but you can already do that with an expert with the craftsman specialty. Makes a great combo though.

Your specialist mage is interesting, I'll have to think about it a bit before commenting further, though.

Rizban
2013-05-22, 02:51 PM
Try the Swashbuckler style of acrobatic charge from complete warrior.

Also, i'm working on a Specialist Mage archtype. Not sure if anyone else has made anything like that. Should have it up later today.



Skirmisher

...

Greater Archetype Power Graceful Step (Ex): A skirmisher is not hindered by difficult terrain. She is not slowed by uneven terrain, rubble, or undergrowth, moving across it at her normal speed, though she may still need to make a Balance check. She can also run and charge across such terrain.
She can not use this ability on any terrain that would require a Climb or Swim check or on any terrain that has been magically enchanted to impede movement.

It's already the same as the Swashbuckler ability, only it also allows running and doesn't slow movement, neither of which the SB ability provides. I'm not sure what you're suggesting...



Spell WeaverA skilled mage can see the invisible strands that tie all beings together and can subtly reweave them to his liking.

Prerequisites: Spell Weaver is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A spell weaver gains spellcraft and knowledge (arcana) as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A spell weaver gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Spellcasting: A spell weaver specializes in transmutation magic, casting arcane spells drawn from the spell weaver spell list.
Eldritch Tapestry (Sp): As a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, the spell weaver may weave a willing target that he is touching into his eldritch tapestry. A spell weaver may have a number of creatures in his tapestry equal to his casting modifier or his class level, whichever is higher, not counting himself. A creature must have a wisdom of 1 or greater to be part of the tapestry. A creature can remove itself from the tapestry, or be removed by the spell weaver, as a free action. A creature is aware that it is part of the tapestry. The weave extends 25 ft + 5 ft per level. Leaving this area does not remove on from the tapestry, but a creature outside this range is not affected by any ability dependent on the tapestry. If a creature in the tapestry is killed, the spell weaver takes non-lethal damage equal to twice the creatures HD and must make a will save equal to 10 + the creature's HDx2 or be sickened for a number of rounds equal to the creature's HD. A creature may be part of any number of weaves simultaneously.
Weave Casting: The spell weaver may treat all creatures in his tapestry as if he is touching them for the purpose of casting spells.

Moderate Archetype Power

Wide Weave: When casting a spell that targets a single creature over the weave, the spell weaver may simultaneously cast a spell on any number of creatures in the tapestry. Doing so raises the level of the spell by +1, as if using metamagic, using the metamagic rules for the caster's class, though casting time is always increased to a standard action for a swift action spell or a full-round action for a move or standard action spell.
Share Senses:The spell weaver may share one sense of a willing creature in his weave as a full round action. The creature must be in range of the tapestry and can end the sharing at any time. This effect may be maintained indefinitely, but requires concentration as if a spell. A full round action is required to switch which single sense is shared.
Greater Archetype Power

Personal Thread: The spell weaver may now cast spells with range: personal over the tapestry, treating them as if they had a target of one creature and a range of touch for purposes of the tapestry.
Mental Strands: All members of the tapestry may communicate telepathically with each other if they so choose.[/list]
Capstone: A spell weaver adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Vigorous Weave (Sp): For three rounds, the auger may use his vigor ability on any creature in his weave.
Magus – Masterful Tapestry (Sp): The magus may cast a spell through his wide weave ability without increasing the spell's level.
Spellblade – Quicken Weave (Sp): A spellblade may cast a spell using his wide weave ability as a swift action, but must make a fortitude save DC 10+spell level x 2 or be sickened for a number of rounds equal to the spell level.

Spell Weaver Spell List

0-Level Arcane Mark
Guidance
Detect Magic
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Read Magic
Resistance
1st-level Feather Fall
Endure Elements
Expeditious Retreat
Enlarge Person
Mage Armor
Jump
Magic Weapon
Rejuvenation† (minor)
Sanctuary
Shield
Remove Fear
2nd-level Aid
Bestial Might†
Darkvision
False Life
Invisibility
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Pyrotechnics
Spider Climb
3rd-level Blink
Haste
Fly
Keen Edge
Magic Weapon, Greater
Magic Vestment
Protection from Energy
Slow
Water Breathing

Bestial Might
Transmutation
Level: Spell Weaver 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You gain the totemic characteristics of your chosen animal.

Chose one ability score(either Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma). You receive a +4 enhancement bonus to that score. You take on minor characteristics of the animal tied to that score (bull, cat, bear, fox, owl, eagle respectively).

(I didn't want the entire second level list to be individual animal buffs. It works fine as one psionic power, so why not make it one spell?)

If I understand this correctly, it's a rehash of the War Weaver PrC. Right?


Its been a few hours since my last archetype post, so here's the <tada>


MagicianWho needs years of study, divine intervention, or monstrous heritage to use magic when you can just fake it?

Prerequisites: Magician is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A magician gains sleight of hand and UMD as a class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A magician gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Tricky Wand: The magician starts play with a personal wand. This wand is unique in that it has unlimited charges and the UMD DC to activate it is 15+the number of times it has been activated during the current day. It may hold any spell or combination of spells of total spell level no higher than class level/2, with cantrips counting as 0.5 levels. The selection of spells contained may be changed once a week or when leveling. The caster level is always equal to the magician's level and any spell DC is set using the magician's highest mental ability modifier.
Skilled activation (Ex): The magician gains a bonus equal to his level on all UMD checks.
Deceptive Devices (Ex): A flick of the wrist, a few nonsense words. The magician can chose to conceal his reliance on magic items. A spellcraft check opposed by the magician's sleight of hand check is required to notice that a spell completion or spell trigger item was used to cast a spell rather than an innate spellcasting ability.
Moderate Archetype Power

Hammer Space (Su): Where'd the rabbit go? The magician gains access to an extra-dimensional storage space that only he can access. Treat this as a handy haversack with a capacity of 2 cubic feet or 20 lbs per level. If the magician is killed, the contents appear adjacent to his body class level rounds after his death. Additionally, scrolls or wands may be drawn from this space as a swift action.
Stage magic (Sp):The magician may cast dancing lights, ghost sound, and prestidigitation as spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to his level plus his highest mental ability modifier.
Steady Hand (Ex): The magician may take 10 on all UMD checks, even is rushed or threatened.
Greater Archetype Power

Dual-wands (Ex): The magician may activate two wands as a full-round action.
Masterful Activation (Ex): The magician may spend a full round activating a spell completion or spell trigger item. The item then uses the magician's level as it's caster level and the magician's highest mental ability modifier to determine the save DC, if any.

Capstone: An Magician adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Easy Target (Ex): The acrobat may add half his skilled acrobat bonus to the save DC of one spell from a spell completion or spell trigger item activation against a flat-footed opponent.
Expert – Insightful Activation (Su): For three rounds expert may spend insight points in place of item charges, expending one point of insight per level of the spell being cast.
Troubadour – Great Distraction (Su): For three rounds the penalty from the distraction aura is doubled if the troubadour expends castings of his stage magic ability as a free action each round.


I like it! Though, I'm not entirely sure I'll include it here. It might fit better in one of the other two projects. It seems like a perfect archetype for gnomes...



Ok, this is my specialist mage archtype. It gives the Specialist Wizard option of traditional D&D without being boring or to powerful (I think :smalleek:). Let me know what you think.


Specialist MageSpecialist mages focus their magical power on a particular area of expertise, giving up power in other areas to be better at their focus.

Prerequisites: Specialist Mage is only available Magic classes.
Archetype Skills: A Specialist Mage gains Knowledge (arcana) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Specialist Mage gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.


Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Spellcasting: A specialist mage casts arcane spells and specializes in a single school of magic.
Specialisation (Ex): Focusing in one area, a specialist mage selects one school of magic to be his Specialty, and one school to give up forever, from those available (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy and Transmutation). Any spell from the school that is given up are removed from the specialist mages spell list and can never be learned through any means. At each level (including 1st) the specialist mage may learn an additional spell of his speciality school from his spell list which does not count towards his number of spells known.
School Focus: A specialist mage learns School Focus† as a bonus spell at first level. If the specialist mage prepares spells, he may choose to sacrifice any other spell he has prepared to spontaneously cast this spell. The sacrificed spell must be the same or higher level as the spell being cast. The specialist mage knows and can prepare and cast these spells from memory and does not need to copy them into a spellbook if he uses one, and these spells do not count against his number of spells known.
Moderate Archetype Power Metamagic Feat: A specialist mage gains a Metamagic feat of their choice.
Spell Power (Su): A specialist mage focuses his power to enhance his specialisation. He gains a +1 to the save DC of any spell cast from his Specialist school. At 5th level he also gains a +1 to his Caster Level for any spell from his Specialist school.
Greater Archetype Power Metamagic Reduction A specialist mage more easily alter and control his specialisation. He may reduce the total level increase of any Metamagic feats applied to spells of his Specialist school by 1.
Capstone: A specialist mage adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability.
Augur – Specialist Surge (Su): When casting a spell of your Specialist school, using Spirit Surge does not count towards your maximum number of Spirit Surges per day.
Magus – Esoteric Specialisation (Su): For three rounds, the magus adds his esoteric knowledge bonus to the save DC of his Specialist school.
Spellblade – Eldritch Specialisation(Su): When using Spell Conduit with an area effect spell of the Specialisation school, the spell activates as normal instead of just on the target. The Spellblade may ignore a number of targets in the spells effect equal to his CHA mod (he must include himself as one of the ignored targets if he wishes to avoid the effects)
Specialist Mage Spell List

{table="head"]Level |Abjuration |Conjuration |Divination |Enchantment |Evocation |Illusion |Necromancy |Transmutation
0 |Resistance |Acid Splash |Detect Magic |Daze |Dancing Lights |Ghost Sound |Touch of Fatigue |Mage Hand |Read Magic |Ray of Frost |Open/Close
1 |Endure Elements |Mage Armor |Comprehend Languages |Charm Person |Burning Hands |Color Spray |Cause Fear |Enlarge Person
1 |Protection from Evil/Good/Chaos/Law |Obscuring Mist |Detect Secret Doors |Hypnotism |Magic Missle |Silent Image |Chill Touch |Feather Fall
1 |Shield |Summon Monster 1 |Identify |Distract Assailant (SC) |Shocking Grasp |Ventriloquism |Ray of Enfeeblement |Magic Weapon
2 |Protection from Arrows |Glitterdust |Detect Thoughts |Daze Monster |Gust of Wind |Blur |False Life |Alter Self
2 |Resist Energy |Summon Monster 2 |See Invisibility |Tasha's Hideous Laughter |Scorching Ray |Minor Image |Scare |Spider Climb
3 |Dispel Magic |Sleet Storm |Clairaudience/Clairvoyance |Heroism |Fireball |Displacement |Halt Undead |Haste
3 |Explosive Runes |Summon Monster 3 |Tongues |Hold Person |Lightning Bolt |Major Image |Vampiric Touch |Slow
[/table]

School FocusUniversal
Level: Specialist Mage 1
Components: V
Casting Time: special; see text
Range: Personal
Target: Special; see text
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell targets another spell as you cast it. If the spell being cast is of the Specialist School this spell is a free action, if not it takes a move action. The action must be taken at the same time as the spell finishes casting, so a spell that fizzles out for any reason does not waste this spell as well. This spell counts as a spell of the same school it is affecting.

When cast, the spell affected increases any DC's by 1. You also gain an additional effect dependant on the spell school, which lasts for 1 round.

Abjuration: Gain a bonus on saving throws equal to the spells level
Conjuration: Gain a teleportation speed of 5' per spell level
Divination: Gain a +1 insight bonus to AC
Enchantment: Gain a bonus on attack rolls equal to the spells level
Evocation: Gain a bonus on spell damage rolls equal to the spells level
Illusion: Gain 5% miss chance per level of the spell (stacks with any other miss chance)
Necromancy: Gain DR /- equal to the spells level
Transmutation: Gain Temp HP equal to twice the spells level

I think it's an interesting concept, but giving 7 additional spells known is really very powerful, especially for a Spellblade. I'm not a fan of giving out free spells with few exceptions. With Priest, Green Mage, and Red Mage, the free spells given out are really all the same spell within each archetype, just the stronger versions of the spell. Cure Wounds, Summon Nature's Ally, and Orb of Energy are all just spell chains with slightly stronger versions.


School Focus is another neat concept, but I can't see it being used as you probably intended it to be used by anyone but a Spellblade, as he's the only one who won't have to waste resources in combat to use it. Additionally, the spell as written is insanely strong, particularly for a Magus. With a duration of Instant, the effects never end until hit with a successful dispel magic or similar. For this example, let's assume I'm a Magus who banned Divination. With a short buff routine in the morning, I have a +3 on all saving throws, a 15' teleportation(?) speed, a +3 bonus on attack rolls, a +3 bonus on all spell damage, a 15% miss chance, DR 3/-, and 6 temporary HP. I don't go adventuring for a day, sleep, regain all my spell slots, and head out with all the buffs still up and full spell slots.


Metmagic reduction is something I'd rather not hand out too readily, and I already have a planned archetype focused on metamagic that I'd like to be the only one that gets reductions. Additionally, metamagic works differently in this system (See Chapter 5: Magic), so metamagic costs shouldn't be referred to as level increases. That doesn't apply to all casters.

stack
2013-05-22, 03:13 PM
Yup, the spell weaver is a war weaver by way of the pathfinder vitalist/tactician.

The magician started as a wand-slinger, but that name was too lame. Once I picked the name the rest fell into place. I thought it would work well as a normal archetype, but I suppose it could work for gnomes. I don't care for gnomes myself, so that wouldn't have occurred to me.

Darth_Versity
2013-05-23, 05:50 PM
It's already the same as the Swashbuckler ability, only it also allows running and doesn't slow movement, neither of which the SB ability provides. I'm not sure what you're suggesting...

Sorry, was on my phone at the time and looking at the current version was difficult. I was just suggesting that as a form of Acrobatic Charge that already existed, but its clear now that you probably based it on that :smallbiggrin:


I think it's an interesting concept, but giving 7 additional spells known is really very powerful, especially for a Spellblade. I'm not a fan of giving out free spells with few exceptions. With Priest, Green Mage, and Red Mage, the free spells given out are really all the same spell within each archetype, just the stronger versions of the spell. Cure Wounds, Summon Nature's Ally, and Orb of Energy are all just spell chains with slightly stronger versions.


Hmm, maybe reduce it to 4 spells then. A bonus one at 1, 3 & 5. Or maybe just 1 and 4. Have to think on that.


School Focus is another neat concept, but I can't see it being used as you probably intended it to be used by anyone but a Spellblade, as he's the only one who won't have to waste resources in combat to use it. Additionally, the spell as written is insanely strong, particularly for a Magus. With a duration of Instant, the effects never end until hit with a successful dispel magic or similar. For this example, let's assume I'm a Magus who banned Divination. With a short buff routine in the morning, I have a +3 on all saving throws, a 15' teleportation(?) speed, a +3 bonus on attack rolls, a +3 bonus on all spell damage, a 15% miss chance, DR 3/-, and 6 temporary HP. I don't go adventuring for a day, sleep, regain all my spell slots, and head out with all the buffs still up and full spell slots.

I think you may have misread how it works, but I was short of time when writing it and struggling with the wording.

It adds a +1 to the DC of another spell being cast as you cast it, and adds an additional bonus dependant on the level and school of the spell its effecting. The bonus only lasts for 1 round.

So if for example a Magus cast Fireball, he could cast School Focus at the same time to increase the DC by 1. If Evocation is his Speciality school casting School Focus is a Free action, if not it takes his Move action. If he doesn't have a Move Action left, he cannot cast School Focus. He would then gain a +3 damage bonus to spells which lasts until the end of his next turn, so it would effect his fireball and any damaging spells next round.

Because the effect only lasts 1 round its a relatively minor boost for the cost of a 1st level spell. A Spellblade would get excellent use out of it, but would still only be able to use it every 1d4 rounds.

Maybe it would be easier to understand if it was always cast as a free action as you cast another spell, but increased the effected spells casting time unless it is a speciality school.


Metmagic reduction is something I'd rather not hand out too readily, and I already have a planned archetype focused on metamagic that I'd like to be the only one that gets reductions. Additionally, metamagic works differently in this system (See Chapter 5: Magic), so metamagic costs shouldn't be referred to as level increases. That doesn't apply to all casters.

Fair enough, the metamagic idea was something I was toying with and didn't really like myself when I wrote it as it was a little bland and felt to 'Hey, I want free metamagic'.

I'll have to think on something else. Thanks for the feedback.:smallsmile:

Rizban
2013-05-23, 06:17 PM
Ah, I missed the separate duration line within the text itself. The spell certainly needs cleaning up before it could be used. Still, I'm not really a fan of the spell... I'm trying to keep magic relatively simple and straightforward to make sure it's easier to balance against the non-Magic classes/archetypes.

D-naras
2013-05-24, 01:03 PM
D-naras - interesting archetype. I like it overall. I would maybe not give a bonus to diplomacy checks, as that overlaps with the troubadour's beguiling influence. Maybe make it fast diplomacy instead? Rizban has tried to avoid giving away too many class abilities as part of archetypes, though his feedback would be good before making a change here. The bodyguard need some clarification, I think, especially if you have more powerful races (which are often dealt with by using reduced point buys in E6). Taking 10 on diplomacy doesn't have to overlap with the expert's ability to take ten, since they pick a set of skills for that
....


Sorry for the late reply. The intention of Social Graces is mostly about using Diplomacy instead of the other skills, so instead of a bonus to diplomacy, the ability can have less of a penalty(which the bonus eventually removes). How about this then:

Social Graces (Ex): Whenever the Courtier is making a Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate or Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) check, he may instead roll Diplomacy with a -3 penalty. This penalty is reduced by 1 on each even level.

Regarding the body guard issue, how about this: The bodyguard can't have a base ability score higher than your Charisma, after applying racial modifiers.

stack
2013-05-24, 02:14 PM
Sorry for the late reply. The intention of Social Graces is mostly about using Diplomacy instead of the other skills, so instead of a bonus to diplomacy, the ability can have less of a penalty(which the bonus eventually removes). How about this then:

Social Graces (Ex): Whenever the Courtier is making a Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate or Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) check, he may instead roll Diplomacy with a -3 penalty. This penalty is reduced by 1 on each even level.

Regarding the body guard issue, how about this: The bodyguard can't have a base ability score higher than your Charisma, after applying racial modifiers.

That would be an interesting use for social graces. I had thought of just allowing diplomacy checks faster (I don't think anyone gets that). Not sure how Rizban will feel about swapping skills like that.

I would just have the bodyguard use one of the default arrays + racial mods, though that still doesn't address the powerful races question, maybe having one array for LA 0 races and one for LA 1 races, etc. Could just say it works as leadership (thus including a level-2 cap) but only attracts a warrior (as the NPC class) that happens to have the listed skills in addition to normal.

Rizban
2013-05-24, 02:20 PM
Sorry for the late reply. The intention of Social Graces is mostly about using Diplomacy instead of the other skills, so instead of a bonus to diplomacy, the ability can have less of a penalty(which the bonus eventually removes). How about this then:

Social Graces (Ex): Whenever the Courtier is making a Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate or Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) check, he may instead roll Diplomacy with a -3 penalty. This penalty is reduced by 1 on each even level.

Regarding the body guard issue, how about this: The bodyguard can't have a base ability score higher than your Charisma, after applying racial modifiers.

Two things.

First, the troubadour already has an ability called Social Graces and has had that ability since I first posted the class.

Second, I don't mind some skill switching, but I'm not going to expand the uses for Diplomacy. It's already one of the easiest skills to buff and is already one of the most powerful skills in the game. Adding more uses for the skill or more bonuses to it beyond what I've already included in the system just seems like it's too much added to an already powerful option.

stack
2013-05-24, 02:24 PM
Tweaked the chymist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15202058&postcount=269)some. I'm trying to polish some of my existing archetypes rather than roll out new ones (not that I wouldn't if I thought of something compelling).

Its easier to make new stuff than refine things. All the fun, half the work. But Rizban needs a break from slogging through all my stuff.:smallbiggrin:

D-naras
2013-05-24, 05:19 PM
Two things.

First, the troubadour already has an ability called Social Graces and has had that ability since I first posted the class.

Second, I don't mind some skill switching, but I'm not going to expand the uses for Diplomacy. It's already one of the easiest skills to buff and is already one of the most powerful skills in the game. Adding more uses for the skill or more bonuses to it beyond what I've already included in the system just seems like it's too much added to an already powerful option.

My bad, sorry. How's this?

Knowledge of the Courts (Ex): Courtiers gain a competence bonus of 2 + 1/2 their level on all Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) checks. Whenever the Courtier is making a Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate or Diplomacy check, he may instead roll Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) with a -5 penalty.


and similarly use Knowledge(Nobility and Stuff) instead of Diplomacy for all the archetype powers I proposed. Actually I think the particular Knowledge is more appropriate to rely on for a trained courtier.

Kerleth
2013-05-25, 01:52 AM
I think that duelist should be available to the Acrobat as well as the combat classes. Swinging on ropes and such tricks are a big part of a swashbuckler style character, and none of the combat characters can fully capture that feel. Also, depending on skill (AC bonus) rather than toughness also feels right for such a character. You said that you would be making exceptions for archetypes that crossed over "class types" here and there, and a duelist acrobat seems to be screaming for it.

Rizban
2013-05-25, 03:20 AM
I agree with you completely as far as the concept goes; however, that's not something I'll be adding. Duelist relies entirely on [Combat] feats that are available only to Combat classes. I'll be making some [Skillful] and [Magic] feats too. One thing I don't want is for these type specific feats to become available to other class types. This is a design choice I'm not willing to compromise on. I would have no problem with you playing an Acrobat/Duelist in your own group, but it isn't something that I'm going to allow in the core rules.

stack
2013-05-25, 12:08 PM
I think that duelist should be available to the Acrobat as well as the combat classes. Swinging on ropes and such tricks are a big part of a swashbuckler style character, and none of the combat characters can fully capture that feel. Also, depending on skill (AC bonus) rather than toughness also feels right for such a character. You said that you would be making exceptions for archetypes that crossed over "class types" here and there, and a duelist acrobat seems to be screaming for it.

I originally wrote my duelist to allow skill classes. I'm generally in favor of opening things up as much as possible, but Rizban's made his call.

Rizban - how are the other archetypes coming along? Just curious what's coming next.

Rizban
2013-05-25, 12:10 PM
There a couple of new ones I'll be postin soon, but I wanted to get those two play tests underway a bit before introducing further changes to the system.

D-naras
2013-05-26, 06:49 AM
Ranger
Rangers are the hunters and the guides of the wild, capable of tracking prey, mastering the terrain and organising their allies during a hunt.

Prerequisites: Ranger is available to any Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A Ranger gains Survival and Knowledge(Geography) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A Ranger gains proficiency with the Longsword, Shortsword, Shortbow, Composite Shortbow, Longbow and Composite Longbow.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power


Favoured Terrain (Ex): A Ranger begins play with 2 favoured terrain chosen from one of the following environments: Aquatic, Desert, Forest, Hills, Jungle, Marsh, Mountain, Plains, Tundra, Underground or Urban.
A Ranger earns an additional favoured terrain on each class level after 1st.
While in a favoured terrain you gain a +1 circumstance bonus to Hide, Knowledge (nature or dungeoneering), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks and always know where north is.
You may also use Aid Another as a swift action while in your favoured terrain.

Combat Styles (Ex): While in one of his favoured terrains, the Ranger is treated as having Two-weapon fighting and Rapid Shot.

Track (Ex/Su/Sp): Rangers gain Track as a bonus feat, and gain a competence bonus on Survival checks to track, equal to their class level.

Moderate Archetype Power

Expert Hunter (Ex): A ranger may move through any sort of natural undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. In addition a Ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. He takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Leader of the Hunt(Ex): When using the Aid Another action to add a bonus to an ally's attack roll or AC, all other allies within 30ft gain half the same bonus.


Greater Archetype Power

Hunter's Instinct (Ex): You are so in tune with your favoured terrains, that you are never surprised while in a favoured terrain. In addition you always gain a surprise round when fighting in a favoured terrain, but you only get a move action. If you would normaly act in the surprise round, you may take a full round's worth of actions.

Capstone: A Ranger adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Acrobat – Wild Movement (Ex): While in a favoured terrain, for three rounds you gain a Climb and Swim speed equal to your base land speed.
Expert – Insight of the Land (Ex): While in a favoured terrain, for three rounds the first Insight Point you spend each turn is not considered spent.
Trobadour – Leader of the Pack (Ex): While in a favoured terrain, as an immediate action made at the start of the surprise round, a Trobadour may grant his Hunter's Instict archetype ability to an ally instead of himself.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-05-26, 08:56 PM
Should I be holding off my reviews until the play-testings are done?

Rizban
2013-05-26, 09:02 PM
Nah, please continue.

Kerleth
2013-05-27, 09:51 AM
Ah, I hadn't realized that you wanted "combat" feats to only be available to combat classes. I just thought of the tag as an identifier for bonus feat and grouping purposes. Wanting to give each archetype access to a few unique tricks is not a bad idea. I was thinking of the other archetype you made that crossed the borders already, and your earlier comment about you intending their to be more, but I can see why duelist might not be a good candidate now.

Will feats like Weapon Focus and Skill Focus from the core be getting "combat" or "skill" tags? Or will it be just a very small subset of feats getting that treatment. I ask because an acrobat could always take more generic combat-based feats (without the "combat" tag) to allow for a swashbuckler, but if ALL combat focused feats are getting tagged (and skill, and magic), it would hugely restrict character creation. That would be going too far in that direction in my opinion, but of course it's your project.

Happy Memorial Day everyone!

Rizban
2013-05-27, 05:52 PM
Ah, I hadn't realized that you wanted "combat" feats to only be available to combat classes. I just thought of the tag as an identifier for bonus feat and grouping purposes. Wanting to give each archetype access to a few unique tricks is not a bad idea. I was thinking of the other archetype you made that crossed the borders already, and your earlier comment about you intending their to be more, but I can see why duelist might not be a good candidate now.Yep, that's why I included a section in the Feats chapter just to explain that.
Chapter 4: Feats

Combat, Magic, and Skillful Feats
Combat feats require a certain level of training and prowess in battle beyond simple weapons use, Skillful feats require certain levels of insight and skill training, and Magic feats require a magical understanding beyond most. As such, these feats are only available to characters who have levels in the appropriate class.


Will feats like Weapon Focus and Skill Focus from the core be getting "combat" or "skill" tags? Or will it be just a very small subset of feats getting that treatment. I ask because an acrobat could always take more generic combat-based feats (without the "combat" tag) to allow for a swashbuckler, but if ALL combat focused feats are getting tagged (and skill, and magic), it would hugely restrict character creation. That would be going too far in that direction in my opinion, but of course it's your project.Not at all. I will be converting any feats that require Fighter levels, such as Weapon Specialization, into [Combat] feats, but I won't be converting others.

The first [Skillful] feat I've written (but haven't posted before now) is
Greater Weapon Finesse [Skillful]
Prerequisite: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Finesse, levels in a Skillful class
Benefit: When attacking with the selected light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on damage rolls.


Happy Memorial Day everyone!Thank you. It's always good to take time to honor our troops.

stack
2013-05-28, 09:13 AM
Rizban - you've mentioned an elementalist archetype in the works. I've had some thoughts that I'll post later, maybe you'll find them useful. Also working on a ranged based caster archetype, might get it written today.

Still mulling a revamp of the prosopon. Not sure exactly what I want to do though.

stack
2013-05-28, 11:39 AM
ElementalistMastering the fundamental elements of creation grants great power.

Prerequisites: Elementalist is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: An elementalist gains knowledge (arcana) as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: An elementalist gains no additional armor or weapon proficiencies.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Spellcasting: An elementalist specializes in elemental magic, casting arcane spells drawn from the elementalist spell list.
Elemental Attunement (Su): As a full round action that provokes and attack of opportunity, the elementalist can choose air, earth, fire, or water to be his active element. This choice persists until another full-round action is taken to chance it. All spells cast by the elementalist that deal [acid], [fire], [cold], or [shock] damage instead deal damage of the type associated with his active element and become a spell of the appropriate type. This does not increase spell level or casting time.
Elemental Touch (Su): An elementalist may make a melee touch attack dealing 1D6+level damage of his active element type.
Elemental Resistance (Su): An elementalist gains elemental resistance top his active element type equal to his level x 4.

Moderate Archetype Power

Elemental Healing (Su): When taking elemental damage, the elementalist healing a number of hit points equal to half the amount of damage negated by his elemental resistance. Damage done exceeding the resistance is taken normally. The elementalist cannot exceed his normal maximum hit points using this ability, any excess HP healed are lost.
Elemental Blast (Su): The elementalist may now use his elemental touch ability as a ranged touch attack with a range of 25 ft + 5 ft/level.

Greater Archetype Power

Elemental Immunity (Su): The elementalist gains immunity to his active element type, replacing elemental resistance.

Capstone: An elementalist adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Elemental Burst (Sp): The auger may spend motes to create a burst of energy, centered on himself with a 30' radius, dealing 1d8 damage per mote spent to all creatures in the radius. He may exclude a number of creatures from this blast equal to his WIS modifier.
Magus – Admixture (Sp): For three rounds the magus may choose the elemental damage type of any elemental damage spells instead of using his active element.
Spellblade – Elemental Shield (p): For three rounds, and creature that attacks the spellblade with a non-reach melee weapon or any natural weapon takes damage as if struck with the spellblade's elemental touch ability.

Elementalist Spell List

0-Level Acid Splash*
Dancing Lights
Daze
Detect Magic
Disrupt Undead
Flare
Prestidigitation
Ray of Frost*
Read Magic
1st-level Burning Hands*
Control Flames†
Color Spray
Elemental Ray†*
Endure Elements
Faerie Fire
Obscuring Mist
Orb of Energy (lesser)†*
Produce Flame*
Shield
Shocking Grasp*
2nd-level Acid Arrow*
Chill Metal*
Elemental Push†*
Elemental Stun†*
Flaming Sphere*
Gust of Wind
Heat Metal*
Resist Energy
Scorching Ray*
3rd-level Call Lightning*
Elemental Cone†*
Elemental Missiles†*
Fire Shield
Fireball*
Lightning Bolt*
Orb of Energy†*
Summon Living Element†*
Water Breathing

* affected by elemental attunement

Control Flame
Evocation
Level: Elementalist 1
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One nonmagical fire source; see text
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 min./level
Saving Throw: See text.
Spell Resistance: No

You control the intensity or movements of one fire source.

As the psionic power control flames (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlFlames.htm). The spell is cast as if the power where fully augmented.

Elemental Ray
Evocation
Level: Elementalist 1
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the psionic power energy ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm). The spell is cast as if the power where fully augmented. The sonic damage option is replaced by acid damage, which also deal -1 damage per die and ignores hardness.

Elemental Push
Evocation
Level: Elementalist 2
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the psionic power energy push (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyPush.htm). The spell is cast as if the power where fully augmented. The sonic damage option is replaced by acid damage, which also deal -1 damage per die and ignores hardness.

Elemental Stun
Evocation
Level: Elementalist 2
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 5-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the psionic power energy stun (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyStun.htm). The spell is cast as if the power where fully augmented. The sonic damage option is replaced by acid damage, which also deal -1 damage per die and ignores hardness.

Elemental Missile
Evocation
Level: Elementalist 3
Components: M, S, V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level)
Target: Up to five creatures or objects; no two targets can be more than 15 ft. apart.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the psionic power energy missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm). The spell is cast as if the power where fully augmented. The sonic damage option is replaced by acid damage, which also deal -1 damage per die and ignores hardness.

Elemental Cone
Evocation
Level: Elementalist 3
Components: M, S, V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

As the psionic power energy cone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyCone.htm). The spell is cast as if the power where fully augmented. The sonic damage option is replaced by acid damage, which also deal -1 damage per die and ignores hardness.

stack
2013-05-28, 12:48 PM
Mystic BowAn archer who channels divine power through his bow.
Prerequisites: Mystic Bow is available to any Magic class.
Archetype Skills: A mystic bow gains spot as a class skill if he does not already possess it.
Archetype Proficiencies: A mystic bow gains proficiency with short bows.

Archetype Features

Lesser Archetype Power

Spellcasting: The mystic bow casts divine spells from the mystic bow list.
Guided Shots (Ex): The mystic bow may use his casting stat in place of dexterity when making ranged attack rolls.
Divine Focus (Ex): The mystic bow may cast spells requiring somatic components even when wielding a ranged weapon that requires two hands. The mystic bow may treat a held ranged weapon as a divine focus for the purposes of spellcasting.
Arcane Arrows(Ex): The mystic bow may create ammunition for a held ranged weapon (arrows, bolts, sling bullets, etc) as part of making an attack with the weapon. This ammunition counts as magic at level one and deals damage as standard according to its type. At level 3, it counts as +1 and at level 6 it counts as +2. The ammunition is expended as part of the attack and does not persist after either missing or damaging the target. The mystic bow can choose to have this arrow deal no damage upon a successful hit before making the attack.

Moderate Archetype Power

Imbue Arrow (Sp): The mystic Bow may conduct a spell through a ranged attack. As a full-round action, the mystic bow may cast a spell that requires one standard action or less to cast and make a single ranged attack as part of the casting. If the arrow strikes a target, the spell then goes off. If imbued with an area of effect spell, the spell is centered on the square occupied by the target (if multiple squares are occupied the attacker may choose). If a targeted spell, treat the struck creature as the only target of the spell.

Greater Archetype Power

Divine Guidance (Sp): As a full-round action, the mystic bow may focus on receiving divine guidance, allowing him to make a single attack with a ranged weapon. This attack ignores any miss chance from anything less than full cover or total concealment.

Capstone: An ArchetypeName adds one additional option to her class' capstone ability.

Augur – Swift Imbuing (Sp):For three rounds the augur may use the imbue arrows ability as a standard action.
Magus – Esoteric Bolts (Sp): For three rounds the magus may treat his arcane arrows as if the had the bane property against one type of enemy that he has gained his Esoteric Knowledge bonus against.
Spellblade – Hail of Arrows (Ex): In lieu of his regular attacks, the spellblade can make a ranged attack at his highest base attack bonus -2 at a maximum of one target per level. Each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.
Mystic Bow Spell List

0-Level Arcane Mark
Guidance
Detect Magic
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Read Magic
Resistance
1st-level Bless
Bless Weapon
Charm Person
Cure Light Wounds
Divine Favor
Endure Elements
Inflict Light Wounds
Magic Stone
Magic Weapon
Sanctuary
Shocking Grasp
2nd-level Aid
Align Weapon
Cure Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
See Invisibility

3rd-level Bestow Curse
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Contagion
Cure Serious Wounds
Inflict Serious Wounds
Magic Weapon, Greater
Magic Vestment
Protection from Energy
Wind Wall

Okay, I'm done now. For now. I mean it this time!

Could also be made as an elven racial archetype, but should probably be arcane for that.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-28, 06:13 PM
No acid arrow? Huh.

stack
2013-05-28, 07:36 PM
No acid arrow? Huh.

I was trying to have just enough offensive spells to make sure there was stuff to be worth imbuing. If I had made it arcane it would have been more offensive, which may yet be a good idea. I guess I just couldn't put any more blasty spells on a list after doing the elementalist.

There is a lack of area spells; I'll have to fix that. Suggestions always welcome.

darklink_shadow
2013-05-28, 07:50 PM
I really like the divine feel of it, actually, but acid arrow seems pretty standard fare for a magic archer of any flavor. I need to jet, so I'll come back later to look at some possible spells.

stack
2013-05-29, 12:59 PM
Another idea for the last sage knack: Time to Think: as a full-round action you may re-roll any knowledge check with a +4 bonus. This ability may be used Int mod times/day.

Could broaden it to any INT-based skill check, but I think its good enough with just the knowledge application. You ALWAYS know what things are (which a sage does anyway).

Its basically copied form the PF lore oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/lore) revelation. Other revelations on the list could be good too.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-06-03, 12:33 PM
(Wombat's Review of:)Skillful Classes(PART 3!)


The Troubadour





Role: A storyteller, poet, and musician, the troubadour is the master of inspiration. Whether encouraging his allies or demoralizing his foes, a troubadour's words are his weapons.

So, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I love bards. But not as a player. As a DM, I find them the perfect DMPC, a buffer and information giver, the party's Navi - "HEY LISTEN! You can open that chest with A!" "Watchout! Skeletons can't get maimed by criticals!" "LISTEN! I'm inspiring my LAZER!" Okay, okay, perhaps I'm getting carried away with references, but basically, what I want to see is not just a buffer/debuffer, especially since the knowledge thing has now been taken over by the sage. I want the the buffing, but I also want something that has unique feel...so I don't feel like I'm making everyone else do something, but not myself...But perhaps in this system, that's what an archetype is for!


Hit Die: d6
Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level): Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skill, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Interesting that the bard has the least amount of skills of the skillful. I'd have thought the acrobat might have been.

Class Features


Inspiring Aura (Su): A troubadour learns to inspire his allies and demoralize his enemies using only words and music. As a standard action, he may project an Inspiring Aura. The aura remains in effect until he uses a free action to dismiss the aura or activates a different aura as a standard action. A troubadour need not be in battle to activate an aura and may have it active at any time, and there is no limit to the number of times per day that a troubadour may activate his aura. A troubadour must sing, play a instrument, recite poetry, chant, whistle, or use some other verbal or musical style to produce the aura. If the troubadour is deaf, he has a 20% chance each turn of the aura failing and deactivating.
Unless otherwise noted, any variable bonus is equal to the bonus given on the table, and the aura affects all allies or enemies within the range given who can hear the troubadour, though they do not have to share a language. Creatures who are deaf are immune to all benefits and penalties granted by the aura. The aura does not work in an area of silence, and is automatically dismissed if the troubadour is dazed, stunned, paralyzed, unconscious, or is otherwise unable to continue producing the necessary sounds.
A troubadour begins play knowing three Inspirations of his choice, gaining one new Inspiration at each additional level to a maximum of 8 known at 6th level.

Alright, so I could do this all day, with no limitation, so long as I'm performing? No perform check, or negatives after a certain amount of time? You'd think the troubadour might get tired of playing the instrument or what not for hours. Are there concentration checks to continue playing if something attacks the troubadour? Being that it is E6, I appreciate that it never gets to more than one aura at a time until 6th, and only for a limited time there. I like the range and + increase progression.


Beguiling Influence (Ex): A troubadour uses his natural charm at wit to his advantage. He gains a circumstance bonus equal to his beguiling influence bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Perform checks when used in social situations. He never gains this bonus for other uses, such as when feinting in combat.

See bolded area - did you mean natural charm AND wit?


Streetwise (Ex): A troubadour understands more about life on the streets of a city than most. He gains a bonus on Knowledge (local) checks and on Survival checks made inside of a city equal to his Charisma modifier (if positive).

Seems a little underwhelming to me. *shrug*


Quick Thinking (Ex): Troubadours are known to quickly assess a situation and respond rapidly. Anytime a troubadour is aware of an enemy before combat starts, he gains a circumstance bonus to his initiative checks equal to his Beguiling Influence bonus. Enemies who gain a surprise round against him deny him this bonus.

However, I really like this one. :smallsmile:


Social Graces (Ex): When using Bluff or Diplomacy, a troubadour can quickly cover minor mistakes and smooth a botched attempt to influence someone. Any time a troubadour fails a Bluff or Diplomacy check, he may spend a swift action to immediately roll the check again. He must use the second result, even if the roll is lower. A troubadour may only use this ability against a particular target once per day.
This ability can not be used in combat, such as when attempting to feint.

I approve of all limitations on this. I like it. Well done putting in "he must use the second check".


Mental Resistance (Su): Troubadours carry many dark secrets they would prefer remain secret combined with a large amount of knowledge based on half-truths and false rumors. This makes a troubadour’s mind unreliable to those who would seek to mentally affect it. At 4th level, a troubadour receives a morale bonus equal to his Beguiling Influence bonus to saves made against Enchantment (Charm) spells and any ability that would read or detect his thoughts.

What dark secrets? It's not like they get any bonuses to knowledge save knowledge: local in cities. I like the ability, just not the fluff. Wouldn't be easier to say that they get better saves to their Will period? Or is that too much?


Fortune's Friend (Ex): For some reason, luck seems to favor a troubadour. At 5th level, he gains the ability to reroll a single ability check, skill check, attack roll, or saving throw but must use the second result, even if the result is lower. This ability is a free action and can be used a number of times per day equal to the troubadour's Charisma modifier, but only once on any one roll.

I'd recomend using something better to start off your ability description than "for some reason". It just strikes me as odd for the entity that's describing the class feature to say - "I don't know why luck favors the troubadour...but it does!" It'd be better to say, "Few know exactly why the troubadour is favored by luck, but whyever the case, they always seem to come out on top." An upgraded social graces. Nice.


Sound and Fury:
Inspirational Speech (Su): By spending a full-round action, a troubadour may activate a second inspiring aura for three rounds. At the end of the third round, he chooses which of the two auras is dismissed.

Cool, though Harmonize might be a better word for it. Can I choose to use the same aura two different ways, such as inspire ability?


Great Motivator (Su): By spending a standard action, the troubadour's inspiring aura bonus increases by +1 for three rounds.

I also like this.


Quite Fortunate (Su): The troubadour may use his fortune's friend ability once without it counting against his daily uses of that ability.

Nice. :smallsmile:

Inspiring Auras



Assault: All allies affected by this aura gain a bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits equal to twice the normal aura bonus.
That's a deadly combo with a brawler!


Alacrity: This aura grants a boost in reaction time to all allies within the aura, granting them a bonus on Initiative checks and on Reflex saves.
Sweet! I like.


Countersong: An aura user can use his aura to counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components). Each round of the countersong, he makes a Perform check and adds his aura bonus to the result. Any creature within 30 feet of the aura user (including the user himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a noninstantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the Perform check result for the save. Countersong has no effect against effects that don’t allow saves. The aura user may keep up the countersong for 10 rounds. After the countersong ends, the aura user must rest for at least 1 minute for each round the countersong was active before he can use it again.
So this affects any spell that has verbal components?


Distraction: While this aura is active, all enemies within the aura take a penalty to attack rolls and Concentration checks. As an immediate action, the aura user may end this aura to apply the penalty to a saving throw of one affected enemy.
Nicely named. And nice that there's an alternate method. Allows for a lot of playing around.


Fascinate: Enemies affected by this aura have a chance of becoming fascinated. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the aura user, and able to pay attention to him. The aura user must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every level a character attains beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with this aura.

To fascinate a creature, the aura user makes a Perform check, adding his aura bonus to the result. His check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the user cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the performance, taking no other actions, for as long as the user continues to play and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per class level). While fascinated, a target takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the aura user to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result.

Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.
A non combat Aura, that might help in preventing combat.


Inspire Ability: When this aura is activated, the aura user chooses one ability score. Affected allies gain a bonus on ability checks with that ability and on skill checks that have the chosen ability as its key ability.
In bolded area, I don't think you meant ability score, I think you meant "ability". Otherwise, pretty cool. I get to choose between upping the party's HP, possibly AC, or attacks, or even one of the other abilities for something or another. I'd likely commonly choose STR or CON, unless for a specific situation. WAIT. nevermind. this is only for checks, not abilities. Sadface. Can I stop the song and change it to a different ability at will?


Inspire Competence: When this aura is activated, the aura user chooses one skill. Affected allies gain a bonus on skill checks with that skill equal to twice the normal aura bonus. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible, as ruled by the DM. An aura user can't inspire competence in himself. This is a mind-affecting ability.
I could technically really do this for the skill that's being used all the time, since I can use this aura as many times as I want per day, all day. So if I have a team mate trying to do a jump check, I sing for that aura, and now he needs a climb check, so I change to that, and so on. Not to mention, how about an ally that is trying to listen (or some other conflicting skills)? I'm singing loudly to make someone hear better? :smallbiggrin: Something I've always wondered about and want your take on.


Intractability: This aura grants a boost in strength of will to all allies within the aura, granting them a bonus on Concentration and Sense Motive skill checks and on Will saves

I like your alike bonuses in these. Makes things more useful and attractive.


Repose: All allies affected by this aura ignore the effects of fatigue, exhaustion, hunger, and thirst while affected by the aura. This does not remove the need to sleep, eat, or drink, characters simply do not suffer the negative effects of the fatigue.

Everybody gets to sleep in their armor, so long as I sing while you sleep! :smallbiggrin:


Rousing Combat: All allies affected by this aura gain a bonus when making or attempting to resist a bull rush, disarm, feint, grapple, overrun, sunder, or trip attempt.

Nice.


Taunt: One enemy within twice the normal aura range must make a Will save (DC 10 + aura bonus + Charisma modifier) or become enraged and attempt to attack the aura user, moving toward him if necessary and charging if beneficial. This aura must be maintained each round as a swift action.

If the taunted creature is attacked, injured, or targeted or damaged by a spell from any source other than the aura's user, the taunt effect immediately ends. After a number of rounds equal to the aura bonus, the taunted creature gets a new saving throw. A creature that successfully saves against a taunt is immune to taunts from the aura user for 24 hours. This is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.

Reminds me of the sentinel! A sentinel and troubadour might have fun with this. :smallwink: Though, only if done right.



Tenacity: This aura grants a boost in resolve and resilience to all allies within the aura, granting them a bonus on Fortitude saves and damage reduction X/magic where X is the aura bonus. This does not stack with other sources of damage reduction.

Interesting! I like this a lot.


Valor: All allies affected by this aura gain a bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls.

Nice. Always handy.


Vigor: All allies affected by this aura gain a bonus on armor class and saves against fear, poison, and disease.

Oh wow! A very nice one. That's a pretty big bonus to AC. What if you did Dex bouns to AC, so they'd get the max of their armor, or some such. If you'd like to keep it as is, I'll not complain, I just don't see what kind of AC bonus this is. Natural? Circumstance? so on...

[/list] One problem I see with this is there's not a lot of things that affect enemies. I count 3 enemy debuffs, and 11 buffers. I don't suppose there's a way to fan that out more?

stack
2013-06-04, 10:59 AM
Stupid question: Does the hoplite still take the -2 penalty on attacks for wielding a tower shield if he is using the shield to make the attack? There does not appear to be any abilities listed to mitigate the penalty, so I believe the answer is yes.

Does the hoplite threaten with a tower shield? I believe the answer is yes, since he can forgo normal attacks to make shield bashes. I don't believe you ever officially answered the tower shield damage question, either.

Why yes, I have been mentally building hoplites, why do you ask?

Rizban
2013-06-04, 11:33 AM
Stupid question: Does the hoplite still take the -2 penalty on attacks for wielding a tower shield if he is using the shield to make the attack? There does not appear to be any abilities listed to mitigate the penalty, so I believe the answer is yes.I honestly hadn't even thought about that. I'm leaning towards yes, because you're basically wielding a door as a weapon.


Does the hoplite threaten with a tower shield? I believe the answer is yes, since he can forgo normal attacks to make shield bashes. I don't believe you ever officially answered the tower shield damage question, either.Yes, a hoplite should threaten with any shield he wields.
Well, following the progression, a light shield does 1d3, and a heavy does 1d4. So, logically, it would be 1d6; however, that just seems lame. Let's make it 1d8.


Why yes, I have been mentally building hoplites, why do you ask?Oh, no reason...

stack
2013-06-04, 11:58 AM
Could a character with powerful build wield a large shield? I don't expect the ac to change, but it would certainly help the bash damage. Especially if you get the bashing enchantment (requires CL 8, which an auger can pull off).

Though tower shields can't get bashing, since it specifies light and heavy shields only.:smallconfused: Might need a line that a hoplite can treat his tower shield as a heavy shield for the purpose of feats and enchantments, since the shield specialization feat ( Player's Handbook II, p. 82) also does not appear to apply to tower shields. Normally I wouldn't care about that feat, but it is a pre-req for the feat that makes your shield bonus apply against touch attacks.

Rizban
2013-06-04, 12:09 PM
There's another feat that does the same thing but doesn't have the prerequisite. The name escapes me at the moment.

stack
2013-06-04, 12:15 PM
Parrying Shield, ( Lords of Madness, p. 181)

It doesn't give the bonus to resist bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, or trip attempts that shield ward does( Player's Handbook II, p. 82) . Plus LoM is a less common source than PHB II, making the other feat the only option if LoM isn't allowed.

There's also the bashing enchantment issue, but I suppose that could slide as an 'ask your DM nicely'.

darklink_shadow
2013-06-04, 03:10 PM
Ask your DM nice rules are terrible. Some of us play with rules lawyers.

stack
2013-06-04, 03:55 PM
Thought about changing the Cad significantly. The current version basically cribs PF's dirty tricks. This limits it to melee. Might re-name and re-fluff it to use true-names to inflict status effects, allowing both buffs and debuffs, plus some range. I would NOT be using the truenaming mechanic for both legal and function reasons. This sounds like a good idea?

darklink_shadow
2013-06-04, 04:07 PM
Cad was skill type wasn't it?

True naming sounds like magic type to me.

stack
2013-06-04, 08:14 PM
Cad was skill type wasn't it?

True naming sounds like magic type to me.

But there are only so many low level language spells in core.:smallfrown:

jojolagger
2013-06-04, 10:55 PM
I like what I see. I can think of a few domain related suggestions, but really out of it and need sleep so will wait until I can think straight and probably not say something stupid before saying a lot.

stack
2013-06-05, 12:24 PM
I'm starting up an arena playtest here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15374996#post15374996). I want to keep it open so others can DM or even take over entirely if I get too busy at some point.

Saidoro
2013-06-06, 10:52 AM
From arena thread:(For those just joining us, the argument was about when spellblades gain spells from their archetypes, and my position was "this loophole should be closed" not "You should give me unbalanced abilities because I found a loophole")

What? No. There is absolutely nothing in the archetype that is "more specific" than what is in the classes as far as how spellcasting works beyond defining arcane/divine and defining a spell list. There is absolutely nothing in any of them that says you can override maximum spell level or anything of the sort. There is nothing at all that says that they gain higher level bonus spells at 1st level. Show me, by RAW, proof of what you're claiming. I want to see where you're getting this.
The extra spells ability simply says that you gain the spells, and there is nothing inherent in the rules about needing to be a certain level to cast a certain spell. It's similar to how you don't need to meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat unless the granting ability states otherwise, the specific rule saying you get it trumps the general one saying you don't qualify.

Rizban
2013-06-06, 11:00 AM
To repost what was said...


When a spellblade has an archetype like priest which grants extra spells known when do they gain those spells? First level? Whenever they gain the appropriate spell level? Whenever an augur or magus would gain an appropriate spell level? The text indicates the first, but that's the least reasonable interpretation so I thought I'd ask.
Chapter 2: The Archetypes

[snip]


Priest

[snip]

Divine Touch: If a priest's deity is of Good or Neutral alignment, he channels positive energy and learns Cure Light, Cure Moderate, and Cure Serious Wounds as bonus spells at the appropriate levels. If a priest's deity is of Evil alignment, he channels negative energy and learns Inflict spells instead.


Yes, they gain it at the appropriate spell level, but there's nothing to stop a first level spellblade from casting third level spells, they don't use slots. And if they have to wait to cast them that still raises the question of whether they have to wait until when their specific glass gains access to them(so 4th level for 2nd level spells and never for third) or when those spells can be cast in general(3rd level for 2nd level spells and 5th for 3rd).


Except, you know, that they have a stated maximum spell level of 1st. Whether or not they use slots has nothing to do with it. Do you assume that a Warlock can cast any and all invocations just because it doesn't use slots? That's silly.

Obviously the answer to this is "Yes." If the class can't cast spells of that level, then the class can't cast spells of that level. I thought that was one of the core underlying principles of spellcasting. I never knew that was up for debate.
Sorcerers have delayed spellcasing. Dread Necros have delayed spellcasting. Lots of other classes do too. I don't see why Spellblade having delayed spellcasting is that confusing or what would possibly lead you to assume that it would use the spell progression of a completely different class for one of its abilities.

I'm not sure what is ambiguous about that line...

I don't see how "appropriate levels" can possibly be interpreted to mean "All at first level," or "When a completely different class gains spells of the same level."


This is what I assumed, just making sure. The spellcasting ability described by the archetypes is more specific than the maximum spell level described in the class so by RAW they would gain them at first level, but that's a pretty obviously unreasonable interpretation which is why I asked.
I'm not trying to justify cheese by RAW, I'm trying to clarify RAW to stop others from doing the same.


What? No. There is absolutely nothing in the archetype that is "more specific" than what is in the classes as far as how spellcasting works beyond defining arcane/divine and defining a spell list. There is absolutely nothing in any of them that says you can override maximum spell level or anything of the sort. There is nothing at all that says that they gain higher level bonus spells at 1st level. Show me, by RAW, proof of what you're claiming. I want to see where you're getting this.

Rizban
2013-06-06, 11:08 AM
The extra spells ability simply says that you gain the spells, and there is nothing inherent in the rules about needing to be a certain level to cast a certain spell. It's similar to how you don't need to meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat unless the granting ability states otherwise, the specific rule saying you get it trumps the general one saying you don't qualify.No, it doesn't. It says you gain them "at the appropriate levels," as I pointed out at the very beginning.

1You seem to be confused on the general vs specific issue, as shown by your example.
Using feats as a basis:
General Rule: To gain a feat, you must meet the feat's requirements.
General Rule: To gain a feat, you must be gaining your 1st HD or a HD divisible by 3.

Those rules always apply unless specifically stated to not apply. You have it backwards in your understanding. You only ignore those rules when it specifically says you ignore them. Look at the monk, for example.
A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.That's an example of a specific rule. Without that line, he'd have to meet the prereqs to choose the feat.

As opposed to the Fighter entry along the same lines:
A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.This is an example of the book simply reminding the player what the rules are. It's restating the general rule, not applying a specific rule.

To arrive at your interpretation of how bonus feats work, you have to assume an unprinted specific rule stating that you ignore all general rules relating to the acquisition of feats then turn around and apply another specific rule overriding the first specific rule which states to return to the general rule.

Rizban
2013-06-06, 11:21 AM
What about this line: "If a priest's deity is of Evil alignment, he channels negative energy and learns Inflict spells instead"?

Would you go on to argue that "learns Inflict spells" 'obviously' includes Mass Inflict Light Wounds, Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds, and Mass Inflict Critical Wounds? After all, it just says an evil priest "learns Inflict spells instead," and those are "Inflict spells." Wow! Spellblade Priest can at will 8th-level spells at 1st level! :smallannoyed:

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-06-06, 11:28 AM
:smalleek: Oh boy...it seems I've walked into a semantics debate...:smallfrown:

Looking forward to starting my review on magic! Getting close to half way through the system! :smallsmile:

Then maybe I'll have more of an opinion on all these magical archetypes I've been purposely ignoring.

Rizban
2013-06-06, 11:33 AM
It's less a semantics debate and more of a pure misunderstanding of what's written. Gaining a spell as a bonus spell known at the "appropriate level" doesn't mean in any way that you gain a bonus 2nd- and 3rd-level spell at your first class level that you know and can cast at 1st level. I still don't understand how you can interpret that in any way other than "You gain X as a bonus spell known when you can cast spells of the same level as X."

planswalker
2013-06-06, 12:13 PM
the same way "base statistics" somehow doesn't tell you what statistics are and are not used.

jojolagger
2013-06-06, 01:18 PM
Earth domain thing mentions the stonecutting ability, which I think is actually meant to be the stone cunning ability that dwarfs get.
Should a dwarf with the earth domain get improved stonecunning instead (from UA, earth dwarf, same but +4 instead of +2)?

planswalker
2013-06-06, 01:29 PM
no, they wouldn't. Gaining stone cutting from neither the earth domain nor the dwarf race mentions suddenly having ISC if you gain the ability twice.

jojolagger
2013-06-06, 01:31 PM
no, they wouldn't. Gaining stone cutting from neither the earth domain nor the dwarf race mentions suddenly having ISC if you gain the ability twice.

Is suggestion because it makes sense for a dwarf that likes earth even more to be even better with rocks.

darklink_shadow
2013-06-06, 01:34 PM
It doesn't mention it NOW bu this entire system is in alpha. It COULD mention it. It just doesn't yet. I'm going to have to side with Jojo. Earth Domain SHOULD say that. I mean, seriously, are you going to try to convince me a dwarf priest with ISC is more over powered than a Dwarf priest who gets nothing from the earth domain is under powered? Or even overpowered at all?

planswalker
2013-06-06, 01:37 PM
Jojo, you said would, not should. There's a world of difference between what is currently true and what would make sense to have. I do agree that it would make sense thematically for that to be amended into the earth domain, but that isn't what's currently there. Your question, grammatically, is asking about what happens now, not what would make sense to happen.

darklink_shadow
2013-06-06, 01:46 PM
Oh grammar... thou art a heartless bitch. Yes, I see how what he actually said isn't what I assumed he meant. I also just got out of bed and might go back as soon as I can. I feel ill.

jojolagger
2013-06-06, 02:43 PM
There, is should.

Also, may I suggest the Earth's Embrace domain gets something about healing more when the caster (or target) is standing on stone or earth? Or maybe a few temporary hp? Earthen Reinforcement.
Also, Earthen Grace, Earthfast, and Foundation of Stone (all spell compendium) are spells that might fit Earth's Embrace.

stack
2013-06-06, 03:28 PM
There, is should.

Also, may I suggest the Earth's Embrace domain gets something about healing more when the caster (or target) is standing on stone or earth? Or maybe a few temporary hp? Earthen Reinforcement.
Also, Earthen Grace, Earthfast, and Foundation of Stone (all spell compendium) are spells that might fit Earth's Embrace.

I believe Rizban is trying to only use OGL and homebrew spells. Opening up the entire spell compendium would make it SO much easier to fill domains, though.

Rizban
2013-06-06, 07:09 PM
Earth domain thing mentions the stonecutting ability, which I think is actually meant to be the stone cunning ability that dwarfs get.
Should a dwarf with the earth domain get improved stonecunning instead (from UA, earth dwarf, same but +4 instead of +2)?

I like that idea. I think I'll include it.



I believe Rizban is trying to only use OGL and homebrew spells. Opening up the entire spell compendium would make it SO much easier to fill domains, though.

This. While using SpC would make things much easier to fill, Imwant to keep thing OGL compliant. Feel free to use those spells as a basis for something homebrewed though. Just be sure it isn't a verbatim copy.

Saidoro
2013-06-06, 08:54 PM
What about this line: "If a priest's deity is of Evil alignment, he channels negative energy and learns Inflict spells instead"?

Would you go on to argue that "learns Inflict spells" 'obviously' includes Mass Inflict Light Wounds, Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds, and Mass Inflict Critical Wounds? After all, it just says an evil priest "learns Inflict spells instead," and those are "Inflict spells." Wow! Spellblade Priest can at will 8th-level spells at 1st level! :smallannoyed:
:smallsigh: I am not attacking you. I am not saying that the rules should work the way I describe. I am informing you of a valid reading of the ability which you quite clearly did not intend.
Regardless, the bonus feat thing is an old debate which I am sure we have both heard all sides of and which I doubt either of us is likely to have our opinions changed on. In the interest of not getting into a fruitless and potentially volatile argument on pointless semantics I'll concede the point. Just be aware that someone could read it the way I had and not all who do so will take my "if it's ridiculous but technically legal you still shouldn't do it" stance.

Rizban
2013-06-06, 09:29 PM
I never said you were attacking me. I just was doing the same "technically legal" misinterpretation of the rules using a different example.


I still don't see where you're getting this "valid reading of the rules." I've asked you to quote the lines which say what you claim and show exactly how they say that. You still have not done so. Until you do, I'm not going to continue this "debate".


I've been playing D&D since back in the 90s before 3rd edition even came out. I've played in a number of different groups in a number of different cities and states across the country. I've been on this site (and others) for a number of years playing D&D with people from around the world.

In all that time, this is the first time I've ever heard that this "old debate" you're talking about even exists. Additionally, this is the first time that I've ever heard your particular interpretation of how bonus feats are "supposed to work."

Based on my own experience, that I've never heard your interpretation or of this The existence "old debate", yet you seem to encounter people who disagree with your interpretation frequently, I have to wonder if you've ever considered that your interpretation of that and your interpretation of General vs Specific might just be wrong.

planswalker
2013-06-06, 10:57 PM
:smallsigh: I am not attacking you. I am not saying that the rules should work the way I describe. I am informing you of a valid reading of the ability which you quite clearly did not intend.

except that it's NOT a valid reading.

He gains them at the appropriate level. That doesn't mean 1st level. It means at the level when it is appropriate for him to cast spells of that level. Nothing in the wording contradicts that. The only thing going on here is your terrible misunderstanding of what the "general versus specific" argument means.


Regardless, the bonus feat thing is an old debate which I am sure we have both heard all sides of and which I doubt either of us is likely to have our opinions changed on.

well, when you specifically invent unwritten rules to support your side, it's amazing what you can make up.


In the interest of not getting into a fruitless and potentially volatile argument on pointless semantics I'll concede the point.

no comment


Just be aware that someone could read it the way I had and not all who do so will take my "if it's ridiculous but technically legal you still shouldn't do it" stance.

you know, when you allow yourself to intentionally misunderstand what is actually clearly and explicitly outlined, you can come up with all sorts of crap that is "legal". Especially when it stems from your misunderstanding of the fundamental concepts for how the system works.

Jeriah
2013-06-07, 07:19 PM
Wow... That's just... Just no.

It is NOT a valid interpretation of the rules to say that you can do something because the rules don't say you can't. The rules say what you can do. "Specific" means a change to existing general rules and requires an explicit statement saying exactly the change. If no such statement exists, then you must use the existing general rules.

I'm known for twisting rules and wringing every last perk out of them and get in trouble for it with my group constantly, but even I wouldn't read the bonus spells entries that way. Even if I did, it would be limited to 2nd level spells, because the spellblade never gets 3rd level spells.

darklink_shadow
2013-06-07, 07:46 PM
Thanks Jeriah. You spoke my mind better than I could formulate words today.

jojolagger
2013-06-09, 12:31 PM
The expert capstone effect Epiphany says it makes each inspiration point count as two points for determining bonus and effects. However, the wordings of most of the insight abilities don't have the bonuses or effects scale off how many points were spent, so it doesn't seem to do anything. (Only the Assassin, skirmisher, and Trapsmith capstone effects scale off points spent.)

Also, the specialization bonus and insight bonus to your focus skill don't stack, which might be good for balance, but makes it less effective to use insight for something you're good at, which seems weird.

Jeriah
2013-06-09, 02:02 PM
The expert capstone effect Epiphany says it makes each inspiration point count as two points for determining bonus and effects. However, the wordings of most of the insight abilities don't have the bonuses or effects scale off how many points were spent, so it doesn't seem to do anything. (Only the Assassin, skirmisher, and Trapsmith capstone effects scale off points spent.)

Also, the specialization bonus and insight bonus to your focus skill don't stack, which might be good for balance, but makes it less effective to use insight for something you're good at, which seems weird.

I can't say much to the first part, because I haven't really read it. The second might be justified as being consistently good at some things while having some occasional flashes of insight into things with which you aren't very good. I really haven't even read that class yet though, so maybe that doesn't apply. It was just a thought.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-06-19, 09:16 AM
Hey Rizban, how are we doing? Guess things have been busy lately? Just seems awhile since we've conversed, and I'm still making sure Troubadour is done (by waiting on your response to my PEACH) before moving on down the list.

stack
2013-06-19, 09:19 AM
I believe Riz had some computer issues recently. Not sure on the current status.

inuyasha
2013-06-19, 02:17 PM
love
Spheres: Chaos, Life?
Granted Power
Choose one

Charm person A number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier
The ability to heal damage equal to your charisma modifier*your level per day, this can be split to heal more people, and you can heal yourself

1 - Charm person Makes one person your friend
1 - Hideous laughter Makes someone collapse into lots of laughter
2 - Calm emotions You make someone calm down
2 - Suggestion You use your charm and wit to make someone do something
3 - Geas, lesser You cast a powerful spell to make someone do an important thing for you
3 - Charm monster Makes one monster your friend

Did I do it right?

I'm willing to contribute (even though ive never played E6)

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-07-10, 09:09 AM
Pokes Rizban.

What happened to this thread? It was a bumping and a grinding along, and all of a sudden, we haven't had a post in almost a month! :smallconfused:

D-naras
2013-07-10, 09:59 AM
If that bothers you, you should see the pauses that happen at Gnorman's E6 thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273643), the thread that spawned this one. :smalltongue:

Jeriah
2013-07-10, 02:00 PM
Rizban disappeared about a month ago. I haven't seen him anywhere online, this site, Skype, MSN, Facebook, or anything. I don't know what happened to him, but I'm a little bit concerned that I haven't heard back from emails or anything.

Gnorman
2013-07-10, 03:18 PM
If that bothers you, you should see the pauses that happen at Gnorman's E6 thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273643), the thread that spawned this one. :smalltongue:

Hey, that's a cheap shot!

But seriously, it is hard to find time to work on these things. I'm sure real life just took priority for Rizban, and he'll return when he can.

D-naras
2013-07-14, 01:35 PM
Hey, that's a cheap shot!

But seriously, it is hard to find time to work on these things. I'm sure real life just took priority for Rizban, and he'll return when he can.

But I need my Gnorman fiiiix..... :smallsigh:
Both of your homebrews are awesome by the way.

Jeriah
2013-07-16, 12:09 AM
I like the flavor of some of Gnorman's stuff, but I really prefer the way Riz has this setup. I really like how he has kept the fluff text of each aspect almost exclusively limited to the crunch of each class, allowing each player to pick what they can do without tying a lot of extraneous material to it. The few fluff aspects that got translated into rules (e.g. alignment restrictions) seem to be limited and flavorful in ways that make real sense. I really like that whether you channel positive or negative energy as a Priest is based on your patron deity's alignment rather than your own. That just makes a lot of sense to me.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-07-16, 05:25 AM
I like the flavor of some of Gnorman's stuff, but I really prefer the way Riz has this setup. I really like how he has kept the fluff text of each aspect almost exclusively limited to the crunch of each class, allowing each player to pick what they can do without tying a lot of extraneous material to it. The few fluff aspects that got translated into rules (e.g. alignment restrictions) seem to be limited and flavorful in ways that make real sense. I really like that whether you channel positive or negative energy as a Priest is based on your patron deity's alignment rather than your own. That just makes a lot of sense to me.

I think he's mentioned at some point adding a little more fluff in the mix, after everything was said and done, but yes, I agree that its so far so good. :)

Jeriah
2013-07-17, 07:00 AM
I think he's mentioned at some point adding a little more fluff in the mix, after everything was said and done, but yes, I agree that its so far so good. :)I'd be disappointed if he added more fluff to most of it. I've always felt like the mechanics and the fluff should be separated. Whereas I hated Miko's character, I really think she got it right by being a Samurai without levels in the class.

Classes should be what you can do, not who you are. I'm always disappointed when I read RPG manuals and see endless descriptions of "what you are" in the "what you can do" sections.

Yeah, it makes sense for certain PrCs or ACFs or something that is meant to be one small, specific aspect tied to something in the setting. I'm totally fine with that. It's when the core mechanics get tied too tightly to some particular setting fluff that I have issues with it. Core mechanics should work irrespective of setting, and tying aspects of them to a particular setting just bothers me. I mean, sometimes I just want to play the paladin class without it being so tightly restricted by fluff and having to wheedle the DM until he capitulates.

Rizban
2013-07-23, 03:23 PM
Sorry about that guys. Real life had me too busy to even think about the forums for awhile. Things seem to be slowing down now though.


(Wombat's Review of:)Skillful Classes(PART 3!)


The Troubadour

Interesting that the bard has the least amount of skills of the skillful. I'd have thought the acrobat might have been.The acrobat should also have had 6+ rather than 8+. A typo on my part that I completely missed but will be corrected when I again update this.


Class Features

Alright, so I could do this all day, with no limitation, so long as I'm performing? No perform check, or negatives after a certain amount of time? You'd think the troubadour might get tired of playing the instrument or what not for hours.There are no drawbacks to continuing it beyond inability to be silent and any other situational problems the DM might have arise.


Are there concentration checks to continue playing if something attacks the troubadour?As written, no, but that's something that should definitely be considered... Perhaps require a Perform check rather than a Concentration check. After all, it's an attempt to maintain a performance.


See bolded area - did you mean natural charm AND wit?Yes.


Seems a little underwhelming to me. *shrug*It is, but it isn't worthless. Frankly, I kind of like it. It reflects his ability to get around, know what's going on, and generally survive in a city without actually having to do any "real" work.


However, I really like this one. :smallsmile:Who doesn't?


I approve of all limitations on this. I like it. Well done putting in "he must use the second check".

[QUOTE=TheWombatOfDoom;15361131]What dark secrets? It's not like they get any bonuses to knowledge save knowledge: local in cities. I like the ability, just not the fluff.Agreed. It's something I've edited and will post in the next update.


Wouldn't be easier to say that they get better saves to their Will period? Or is that too much?They already have a Good Will Save. I don't want to just bump it up even higher, but a troubadour should be able to almost always resist those specific kinds of abilities.


I'd recomend using something better to start off your ability description than "for some reason". It just strikes me as odd for the entity that's describing the class feature to say - "I don't know why luck favors the troubadour...but it does!" It'd be better to say, "Few know exactly why the troubadour is favored by luck, but whyever the case, they always seem to come out on top." An upgraded social graces. Nice.Haha, yeah. I had something else there, accidentally deleted it at some point, couldn't remember what I had written, and threw that in as a placeholder... Never did get back to it. I'll have something there eventually though.


Cool, though Harmonize might be a better word for it. Can I choose to use the same aura two different ways, such as inspire ability?I think I'll probably use that rename. I'm going to say no, it has to be two different auras.


Inspiring Auras


So this affects any spell that has verbal components?It's the same as the standard 3.5 bard ability. First sentence: "(but not spells that simply have verbal components)"



In bolded area, I don't think you meant ability score, I think you meant "ability". Otherwise, pretty cool.You're right.

I get to choose between upping the party's HP, possibly AC, or attacks, or even one of the other abilities for something or another. I'd likely commonly choose STR or CON, unless for a specific situation. WAIT. nevermind. this is only for checks, not abilities. Sadface. Can I stop the song and change it to a different ability at will?Yeah, but it takes a standard action to start it up again with a different ability. You select the affected ability upon activation.



I could technically really do this for the skill that's being used all the time, since I can use this aura as many times as I want per day, all day. So if I have a team mate trying to do a jump check, I sing for that aura, and now he needs a climb check, so I change to that, and so on.Yep.

Not to mention, how about an ally that is trying to listen (or some other conflicting skills)? I'm singing loudly to make someone hear better? :smallbiggrin: Something I've always wondered about and want your take on. That's why it says "Certain uses of this ability are infeasible, as ruled by the DM." Listen and Move Silently should fall into that category.


Everybody gets to sleep in their armor, so long as I sing while you sleep! :smallbiggrin:Sleeping in armor isn't affected by this. This aura doesn't remove the condition, just the penalties associated with the condition while it is active. You're still fatigued, you just don't feel it.



Oh wow! A very nice one. That's a pretty big bonus to AC. What if you did Dex bouns to AC, so they'd get the max of their armor, or some such. If you'd like to keep it as is, I'll not complain, I just don't see what kind of AC bonus this is. Natural? Circumstance? so on...Honestly, I've been considering changing this one to damage reduction instead of an AC bonus...


One problem I see with this is there's not a lot of things that affect enemies. I count 3 enemy debuffs, and 11 buffers. I don't suppose there's a way to fan that out more?Agreed. I kind of ran out of harmful aura ideas that aren't overly devastating and then hit the max number of auras I really wanted. I'd be interested to see suggestions though.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-07-23, 03:39 PM
Sorry about that guys. Real life had me too busy to even think about the forums for awhile. Things seem to be slowing down now though.


RIZBAN! I'm glad you're okay! I was kinda worried. :smallbiggrin:

And a response! :smallsmile:

stack
2013-07-24, 12:00 PM
Rizban's back!

Too bad I ran out of time to run that playtest. I can keep up with a few games, but can't run anything now.

Amechra
2013-07-24, 02:38 PM
One quick question:

Why not have Craft Knacks apply to all skills that would qualify?

So if I had Rapid Construction, it would apply to all Craft skills I have at least 4 ranks in.

EDIT: Shouldn't you need to spend 2 motes per +1 spell level when using metamagic as an Augur?

After all, otherwise they can Persist 2nd level spells by 6th level, and Quicken 3rd level spells.

Which is a problem, because normally you'd need to be pretty optimized to pull that off.

Rizban
2013-08-06, 05:53 PM
We've got an update!

Changelog Class: Acrobat – Number of class skills corrected.
Class: Expert Edited the Epiphany capstone ability to be more useful.
Insightful Strike slightly reworded and bonus type added.
Class: Troubadour Typos fixed
Mental Resistance ability slightly edited.
Fortune's Friend ability slightly edited.
Inspirational Speech renamed to Harmonizing Aura
Inspiring Auras: Distraction – Changed “Immediate” to “Swift or Immediate”
Inspire Ability – slight clarification and addition to ability
Inspire Competence – slight clarification
Class: Spellblade Typos fixed
Surging Conduit – slight clarification


Archetype: Green Mage – Nonexistent ambiguity clarified to more explicitly prevent intentional misinterpretation. :smallannoyed:
Archetype: Priest – Nonexistent ambiguity clarified to more explicitly prevent intentional misinterpretation. :smallannoyed:
Archetype: Red Mage – Nonexistent ambiguity clarified to more explicitly prevent intentional misinterpretation. :smallannoyed:

1Also, I've started posting some work on the first expansion to this system:
The R'E6 Census of Peoples and Races (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296405)



1

inuyasha
2013-08-06, 05:57 PM
Hey rizban just to wonder, how was that domain I made? I hope I made it right

Rizban
2013-08-06, 06:02 PM
love
Spheres: Chaos, Life?
Granted Power
Choose one

Charm person A number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier
The ability to heal damage equal to your charisma modifier*your level per day, this can be split to heal more people, and you can heal yourself

1 - Charm person Makes one person your friend
1 - Hideous laughter Makes someone collapse into lots of laughter
2 - Calm emotions You make someone calm down
2 - Suggestion You use your charm and wit to make someone do something
3 - Geas, lesser You cast a powerful spell to make someone do an important thing for you
3 - Charm monster Makes one monster your friend

Did I do it right?

I'm willing to contribute (even though ive never played E6)

It looks okay, but I'm not sure I want to take things in that particular direction. At the moment, I'm kind of planning to avoid combining any of the alignment spheres with any of the others. I'd like to get the domains I currently have on the list finished up before I consider adding new domains to the list. Priests already have the most widely varied possible spell list available...

Rizban
2013-08-06, 11:39 PM
As I've mentioned, I've been working on the Blue Mage, an incarnum based archetype. I'm also effectively discarding the entire soulmeld list and writing up my own soulmelds to make them more appropriate to R'E6. It was convenient that the classes already have their chakra binds divided into 6 tiers. :smalltongue:


That said, I'd like some input on the archetype (and suggestions for the capstones) prior to including it in the first posts. Yes, this is essentially going to be the Incarnate. I'll probably eventually do a Soulborn and Totemist based archetype as well.



Blue MageThe blue mage possesses mastery of the mysterious soul-stuff known as Incarnum. No two blue mages are the same, and it is impossible to predict them. They are capable of completely changing their abilities from day to day.

Prerequisites: Blue Mage is available to any Combat or Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A blue mage gains Concentration and Knowledge (the planes) as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A blue mage gains proficiency with any weapons or armor granted by his soulmelds.

The Blue Mage
{table=head]
Level|
Soulmelds|
Essentia|
ChakraBinds|Open Chakras

1st|
2|
1|
1|Crown

2nd|
3|
2|
1|Feet, Hands

3rd|
3|
3|
1|Arms, Brow, Shoulders

4th|
4|
4|
1|Throat, Waist

5th|
4|
5|
2|Heart

6th|
4|
6|
2|Soul[/table]

Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Meldshaping: A blue mage may shape incarnum soulmelds drawn from the blue mage soulmeld list. He knows and can shape any soulmeld from this list. The Difficulty Class of the blue mage's soulmelds, if appropriate, is equal to 10 + the number of points of essentia invested in the soulmeld + the blue mage's Wisdom modifier. His meldshaper level is equal to his blue mage class level.
A blue mage may only shape a number of soulmelds per day. He may shape a number of soulmelds equal to his Constitution score -10 or the maximum appropriate for his level (given in the above table), whichever is lower.
A blue mage must get a good night's rest and spend one hour meditating to shape his soulmelds for the day. Soulmelds remain shaped until the blue mage chooses to unshape them, such as when he decides to shape new melds, or when a spell or effect causes it to unshape.
Additionally, at 1st level, a blue mage gains access to a pool of essentia, packets of energy that can be invested into his soulmelds to increase their power. A blue mage's number of essentia is shown on the table. Essentia can be invested into any soulmeld or moved from one to another as a swift action.
Chakra Bind: A blue mage is able to bind his soulmelds to his chakras, increasing the powers of his soulmelds or granting him new abilities. Binding a soulmeld to a chakra prevents a blue mage from wearing an item in the body slot associated with the chakra.
A blue mage may only have a limited number of soulmelds bounds to chakras, and only to certain chakras, based on his level. The number of binds and the open chakras are shown on the table. At 1st-level, a blue mage can only bind one soulmeld, and he can only bind it to his crown chakra.
Moderate Archetype Power Expanded Essentia Capacity (Ex): At 3rd level, a blue mage's maximum essentia capacity increases by one. This affects all soulmelds, feats, and any other essentia receptacles that he possesses.
Greater Archetype Power Rapid Reshaping (Su): Once per day, a blue mage may use a full-round action to unshape any one soulmeld he has shaped and shape a different soulmeld of his choice. This action provokes attacks of opportunity. If the unshaped soulmeld was bound to a chakra, the new soulmeld may also be bound to the chakra appropriate for that soulmeld.
Capstone: A blue mage adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability. Brawler – Soul-Rending Strike (Su): After confirming a critical hit against a living foe, a brawler may choose to not deal additional critical strike damage. If he does so, he gains one temporary essentia, which can be immediately invested in any essentia receptacle as a free action. If the target of the attack has an essentia pool, it is reduced by 1. This temporary essentia lasts for 1 minute.
Gladiator – : ???
Sentinel – : ???
Acrobat – : ???
Expert – : ???
Troubadour – : ???
1

Arcanist
2013-08-08, 12:26 AM
Blue MageThe blue mage possesses mastery of the mysterious soul-stuff known as Incarnum. No two blue mages are the same, and it is impossible to predict them. They are capable of completely changing their abilities from day to day.

Prerequisites: Blue Mage is available to any Combat or Skillful class.
Archetype Skills: A blue mage gains Concentration and Knowledge (the planes) as class skills if he does not already possess them.
Archetype Proficiencies: A blue mage gains proficiency with any weapons or armor granted by his soulmelds.

The Blue Mage
{table=head]
Level|
Soulmelds|
Essentia|
ChakraBinds|Open Chakras

1st|
2|
1|
1|Crown

2nd|
3|
2|
1|Feet, Hands

3rd|
3|
3|
1|Arms, Brow, Shoulders

4th|
4|
4|
1|Throat, Waist

5th|
4|
5|
2|Heart

6th|
4|
6|
2|Soul[/table]

Archetype Features
Lesser Archetype Power Meldshaping: A blue mage may shape incarnum soulmelds drawn from the blue mage soulmeld list. He knows and can shape any soulmeld from this list. The Difficulty Class of the blue mage's soulmelds, if appropriate, is equal to 10 + the number of points of essentia invested in the soulmeld + the blue mage's Wisdom modifier. His meldshaper level is equal to his blue mage class level.
A blue mage may only shape a number of soulmelds per day. He may shape a number of soulmelds equal to his Constitution score -10 or the maximum appropriate for his level (given in the above table), whichever is lower.
A blue mage must get a good night's rest and spend one hour meditating to shape his soulmelds for the day. Soulmelds remain shaped until the blue mage chooses to unshape them, such as when he decides to shape new melds, or when a spell or effect causes it to unshape.
Additionally, at 1st level, a blue mage gains access to a pool of essentia, packets of energy that can be invested into his soulmelds to increase their power. A blue mage's number of essentia is shown on the table. Essentia can be invested into any soulmeld or moved from one to another as a swift action.
Chakra Bind: A blue mage is able to bind his soulmelds to his chakras, increasing the powers of his soulmelds or granting him new abilities. Binding a soulmeld to a chakra prevents a blue mage from wearing an item in the body slot associated with the chakra.
A blue mage may only have a limited number of soulmelds bounds to chakras, and only to certain chakras, based on his level. The number of binds and the open chakras are shown on the table. At 1st-level, a blue mage can only bind one soulmeld, and he can only bind it to his crown chakra.
Moderate Archetype Power Expanded Essentia Capacity (Ex): At 3rd level, a blue mage's maximum essentia capacity increases by one. This affects all soulmelds, feats, and any other essentia receptacles that he possesses.
Greater Archetype Power Rapid Reshaping (Su): Once per day, a blue mage may use a full-round action to unshape any one soulmeld he has shaped and shape a different soulmeld of his choice. This action provokes attacks of opportunity. If the unshaped soulmeld was bound to a chakra, the new soulmeld may also be bound to the chakra appropriate for that soulmeld.
Capstone: A blue mage adds one additional option to his class' capstone ability. Brawler – Soul-Rending Strike (Su): After confirming a critical hit against a living foe, a brawler may choose to not deal additional critical strike damage. If he does so, he gains one temporary essentia, which can be immediately invested in any essentia receptacle as a free action. If the target of the attack has an essentia pool, it is reduced by 1. This temporary essentia lasts for 1 minute.
Gladiator – : ???
Sentinel – : ???
Acrobat – : ???
Expert – : ???
Troubadour – : ???
1

Ah, I remember having the idea of a Blue Mage that uses Incarnum at one point... Good times, GOOD times... It didn't turn out too well... Mostly because I tried to please EVERYBODY (including myself). I'm slowly starting to notice that you can't please everyone at once :smallannoyed:

I'm actually eager to see how this will turn out though :smallamused:

Jeriah
2013-08-08, 11:28 AM
We've got an update!

Changelog Class: Acrobat – Number of class skills corrected.
Class: Expert Edited the Epiphany capstone ability to be more useful.
Insightful Strike slightly reworded and bonus type added.
Class: Troubadour Typos fixed
Mental Resistance ability slightly edited.
Fortune's Friend ability slightly edited.
Inspirational Speech renamed to Harmonizing Aura
Inspiring Auras: Distraction – Changed “Immediate” to “Swift or Immediate”
Inspire Ability – slight clarification and addition to ability
Inspire Competence – slight clarification
Class: Spellblade Typos fixed
Surging Conduit – slight clarification


Archetype: Green Mage – Nonexistent ambiguity clarified to more explicitly prevent intentional misinterpretation. :smallannoyed:
Archetype: Priest – Nonexistent ambiguity clarified to more explicitly prevent intentional misinterpretation. :smallannoyed:
Archetype: Red Mage – Nonexistent ambiguity clarified to more explicitly prevent intentional misinterpretation. :smallannoyed:

1Also, I've started posting some work on the first expansion to this system:
The R'E6 Census of Peoples and Races (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296405)



1Yay! Updates!

Rizban
2013-09-04, 05:11 PM
Changelog General: Once again, we have a minor post shuffle to accommodate additional material


Class: Brawler – Slight update to Quick Acrobat.
Class: Sentinel – Warding ability changed to grant a Warding bonus rather than a Cover bonus to the ward's AC.
Class: Magus – Speak Language added to skill list.
Class: Spellblade – Combat Training ability added.


Archetype: Breathstealer – Unarmed Combat ability added.
Archetype: Trapsmith – Open Lock added to skill list.

Jeriah
2013-09-04, 11:36 PM
Nice ability on the Spellblade. Now you just need to get some Combat feats in place for it to use. :smallbiggrin:

Trapsmith definitely needed that skill to make it worthwhile.

Since I haven't really messed with the other items on the change list, I don't have much else to say about them.

stack
2013-09-05, 07:37 AM
IUAS was much needed for the breathstealer. Stupid feat taxes.

Letting the spellblade get combat feats is nice too. Had you rejected that idea earlier, or am I just fuzzy from a crazy summer?

Rizban
2013-09-05, 02:31 PM
It was an idea I had rejected earlier, yes. I'm still a bit leery of it and am seriously considering giving it a limit of class level -2.

Rezby
2013-09-05, 05:35 PM
So let me just see if I have this straight. If I want to make a Spellblade, with the Red Mage archetype, at level one, I'd be decent a combat and I'd have a single spell chosen from any of the Red Mage's 0th or 1st level spells, that I can cast at will? Its basically a warrior + single spell at that point. It seems to be not so great.

I think it might be more balanced to give the spellblade one or two 0th level spells that doesn't count against their spells known list. What do you think?

the rest of this e6 edition is pretty awesome. Question: The feat list is small: does that imply that standard 3.5 feats are available to be taken, so long as they don't have class-specific prerequisites?

Rizban
2013-09-05, 07:11 PM
So let me just see if I have this straight. If I want to make a Spellblade, with the Red Mage archetype, at level one, I'd be decent a combat and I'd have a single spell chosen from any of the Red Mage's 0th or 1st level spells, that I can cast at will? Its basically a warrior + single spell at that point. It seems to be not so great.

I think it might be more balanced to give the spellblade one or two 0th level spells that doesn't count against their spells known list. What do you think?It also gets the energy orb spell, as all red mages do, giving it two spells and an eldritch blast. Considering that they can be cast all day long. I'd say that's plenty strong for first level.


the rest of this e6 edition is pretty awesome. Question: The feat list is small: does that imply that standard 3.5 feats are available to be taken, so long as they don't have class-specific prerequisites?Thanks!

Yeah, it's using SRD feats for now, but I'm working on the feats for it. If there's a Fighter requirement, substitute any Combat class for Fighter, at least until I get the feats reworked.

Jeriah
2013-09-05, 08:11 PM
On the Spellblade Red Mage, what about granting it the 3rd-level spell Orb of Energy at 6th level instead of not at all?

Rizban
2014-02-09, 01:18 PM
Changelog Class: Acrobat – Clarification on Distracting Flank ability.
Class: Magus Number of cantrips per day increased by 1 starting from 3rd level
One additional 1st-level spell per day at level 6.
Eclectic Study ability updated to allow selection of domain spells.
Class: Spellblade Spells with duration now add duration to refresh time.
Specified how to handle using Spell Conduit with spells granting multiple attacks.
Clarification on Surging Conduit ability.
Eldritch Power ability increased from +4 to +5.


Archetype: Huntsman added!
Archetype: Hoplite – Deflecting Shield ability increased to 30%.
Archetype: Priest – Spell list now references Priest having divine domain access.
Archetype: Templar Fixed typos.
Channeling (Smite) – Added additional +1 to attack in some circumstances.
Channeling (Invigorating Touch) – Modified to be usable as a swift action.
Channeling (Restorative Touch) – Modified to only be usable on others.
Courageous and Righteous Resolve abilities combined into Courageous Resolve ability.
Self Sacrifice ability added.
Brutal Smite ability clarification.



Background: Removed Animal Friend


Feats: Added Extra Knack and Knack Generalist feats.

r2d2go
2014-02-09, 03:36 PM
Noticed missing Domain spells/powers, so I found/made some!

Death
Death 2: Ghoul Touch (SRD): Paralyze living humanoid for 1d6+2 rounds with a touch, sickens those within 10 feet.
Death 3: Vampiric Touch (SRD): Drain 1d6 per two levels with a touch.

Chaos
Chaos 1: Anarchic Water (SpC): As Bless Water, but Chaotic.
Chaos 2: Soul of Anarchy (DM): +5 to escape artist and escaping grapples, weapons are Chaotic aligned. Grants DR 3 if combined with good or evil.

Evil
Evil 1: Curse Water (PHB): As Bless Water, but Evil.
Evil 2: Soul of Shadow (DM): Take more damage from Inflict (or heal if undead), remove fatigue by dealing damage. Grants DR 3 if combined with law or chaos.
Evil 2: Desecrate (SRD): Fills area with negative energy, making undead stronger.

Good
Good 1: Bless Water (SRD): Creates a pint of holy water.
Good 2: Consecrate (SRD): Blesses an area with positive energy, making undead weaker.
Good 2: Soul of Light (DM): Heal more with Cure, remove fatigue by healing. Grants DR 3 if combined with law or chaos.

Law
Law 1: Axiomatic Water (SpC): As Bless Water, but Lawful.
Law 2: Soul of Order (DM): +2 to resist enchantment, weapons are Lawful aligned. Grants DR 3 if combined with good or evil.

Creeping Ooze
Ability 1 (Homebrew): You are unaffected by any difficult terrain that is slippery, muddy, slimy, or similarly difficult to walk on.
Ability 2 (SC Slime Domain): Rebuke or command oozes as an evil cleric rebukes or commands undead. You can use this abilities a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Cha modifier.

2 - Soften Earth or Stone (SRD): Turns stone to clay or dirt to sand or mud.
2 - Meld into Stone (SRD): You and your gear merge with stone.
3 - Transmute Rock to Mud, Lesser (Homebrew): Transmute a 1 foot cube per level.
3 - Caustic Mire (CM): Creates difficult terrain, deals 1d6 per square moved and produces flammable gas.

Lesser Transmute Rock to Mud
Level: Green Mage 3, Creeping Ooze 3
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Up to a 1-ft. cube/level (S)

As Transmute Rock to Mud, except as noted here.

Crushing Waves
Ability 1 (Homebrew): You are no longer damaged by pressure underwater. (I can just visualize someone of this domain, walking in an underwater trench... Water Breathing is 2 hours/level so it's semi feasible too)

1 - Bo of Water (OA): Staff deals 1d8+CL/2, is considered magic.
2 - Pressure Sphere (SW): Deal 4d6 under water from crushing pressures.
3 - Wall of Water (Sa): Conjure walls of water
3 - Rushing Waters (SpC): Wave Bull Rushes with +15 to the roll.

Destroying Flame
Ability 1 (Homebrew): Gain resistance to fire 5. Once per day, you may triple that resistance for 1 minute, and spontaneously burst into flames. This deals 2d6 to all within 5 feet for the duration of the fire resistance.

1 - Burning Hands (PHB): Deal 1d4/level to a 15 foot cone.
1 - Blades of Fire (SpC): Deal +1d8 fire damage with weapons.
2 - Fatal Flame (CS): When creature dies, explode, dealing 2 damage/HD or CL to adjacent.
2 - Flame Blade (SRD): Blade of fire makes touch attacks for 1d8+CL/2 damage.
3 - Darkfire (SpC): Fire deals 1d6/2 levels, and can be thrown.
3 - Explosive Cascade (SpC): 1 square/level in a path deals 1d6/level, lights up area.

Earth's Embrace
Ability 1 (Homebrew): Gain damage reduction equal to your hit dice.
Ability 2 (Edit): Gain acid and sonic resistance equal to twice class level.

1 - Earth Healing (Homebrew): Sink into the ground, healing three times as much from sleep.
2 - Battlefield Fortification (HB): Create a shallow trench.
2 - Earth Healing, Mass Lesser (Homebrew): You and others sink into the ground, healing two times as much from sleep.

Earth Healing
Transmutation
Level: Green Mage 1, Earth's Embrace 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: One willing creature
Duration: 8 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Your target sinks into the ground (any unworked stone or soil), and the earth protects and heals them. For the duration of the spell, the target is held 10 feet underground. They can breath normally and do not require food or water, and immediately fall asleep. While asleep, they heal three times as much as normal. If the stone or earth above them is dug away, the spell ends immediately.

Earth Healing, Mass Lesser
Level: Green Mage 2, Earth's Embrace 2
Target: Up to one willing creature per level
Duration: 2 hours/level (D)

As Earth Healing, except as noted.

Earth's Fury
Ability 1 (Homebrew): Once per day, any metal or stone equipment you are wielding immediately heats up as if in the third round Heat Metal. You are unaffected, but any creature who attacks you with a natural weapon (if wearing metal armor) or any creature you hit (if using a metal weapon) takes 2d4 fire damage. This effect lasts for 1 minute.

Abbreviated version: Once per day, you may heat any metal or stone equipment you wield as if casting Heat Metal, but only dealing damage to others who touch the metal.

Ability 2 (Homebrew): You may heat up one 5 foot square of stone per level each day. If a creature steps on said square within one minute, it shatters, dealing 2d6 piercing, slashing and fire damage to the creature and making that square take twice as long to move through.

1 - Earth Shard (Homebrew): 1 shard/level of rock deals 1d6+1 damage.
1 - Lava Slash (Homebrew): Nearby enemies must make balance check or fall down.
2 - Lava Missile (SK): 1+CL/2 missiles deal 1d4 fire damage and set fires.
3 - Earthbolt (OA): Deals 1d6/level to a line extending to close range.

Earth Shard
Conjuration (Creation) [Earth]
Level: Green Mage 1, Earth's Fury 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One or more creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

With a wave of your hand, you fling several razor-sharp shards or stone at your opponents. You may create up to one shard per caster level (maximum 5). Each turn, you may fling one as a free action, or all of them as a standard action. Each attack is considered attacking with a +1 ranged weapon you are proficient in.

Material Component: A shard of rock. If you are near solid stone, you may remove a shard of rock from there instead.

Lava Slash
Conjuration (Creation) [Earth, Fire]
Level: Green Mage 1, Earth's Fury 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Effect: 15 foot line of lava
Duration: 1 round/level, see text
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: No

As you finish the incantation, lava begins forming around your fists. You swing your hands downwards, and it extends to form a 15 foot line of lava, whipping into your opponents. The lava immediately deals 1d4/level (up to 5d4) damage to those in the area. For 1 round/level, the lava continues to burn, dealing 1 damage per round.

That's it for now, but I might fill the rest of them later.

jojolagger
2014-02-09, 07:22 PM
How about "dispelled, dismissed, or otherwise ends normally"?

Pulled over here because we were kind clogging the thread.

Why not just say "when the spell ends"? Adding unneeded complexity seems like asking for trouble.

r2d2go
2014-02-10, 12:19 PM
Part 2:

Furious Storm

Ability 1 (SC Storm Domain edit): You gain resistance to electricity equal to two times your class level.

Light of Life

Ability 1 (ECS Life Domain): Once per day, you can grant 1d6 temporary hit points +1 per cleric level to a creature you touch. These temporary hit points last for a maximum of 1 hour/level.

1 - Light of Lunia (PlH): You glow with light, and can fire up to two light rays.
2 - Light of Venia (PlH): As Light of Lunia, but 3d6 vrs evil outsiders and can heal for 3d6.
2 - Dawn Burst (CM): Deals 1d6+CL to undead, dazzles others.

Living Waters

Ability 1 (Homebrew): You can breath water, as if under a continuous Water Breathing effect.

1 - Wave Blessing (SW): Creatures cannot fail swim checks.
2 - Animate Water (CAr): Animate up to a 5 foot cube of water into double hit point animated object(s).
3 - Water Healing (Homebrew): Turn water into healing potion.

Water Healing
Transmutation
Level: Green Mage 3, Living Waters 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: 4 fl oz (half cup) of water touched
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Casting Water Healing upon half a cup of water instantly turns it into 4 doses of healing potion. Each ounce of this potion provides nourishment as if it were a normal meal for a Medium creature, and cures 1d8 points of damage when drunk.

Raging Inferno

Ability 1: You may use the Greater Drought ability of a Walker in the Wastes once per day, for one round per level.

Ability 2: Any spell you cast that deals Fire or Desiccation damage gets +1 damage per die.

3 - Raise Temperature (Homebrew, FB edit): Increase the heat of the area around you.

Raise Temperature
Transmutation [Fire]
Level: Green Mage 3, Raging Inferno 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: 20 ft./level
Area: 20 cu. ft./level emanation, centered on you
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You imbue an area with fire energy, reducing or raising the temperature by two temperature bands or to Severe Heat.
Effects of the new temperature on creatures and the environment are incurred immediately. (see Heat Dangers, Sandstorm page 12)
Arcane Material Component: A drop of mercury.

Shattered Stone

1 - Earth Shard (Homebrew, see previous post) - 1 shard/level of rock deals 1d6+1 damage.
1 - Local Tremor (RotD) - Knock people down with tiny earthquakes.

And that's it! I might add more just in case some (or all :smalltongue:) of these are deemed unworthy, but that's pretty much every missing slot.

Rizban
2014-02-13, 08:24 AM
Noticed missing Domain spells/powers, so I found/made some!

[snip]
Part 2:

[snip]Thanks for the input. Of note though, several spells you've suggested, such as bless water are already on the Priest's base spell list. I'll definitely look over your suggestions the next time I update the divine domains.


Pulled over here because we were kind clogging the thread.

Why not just say "when the spell ends"? Adding unneeded complexity seems like asking for trouble.I'm thinking about making it say "when the spell ends normally" and adding a caveat that having it dispelled does not reduce the refresh time.

Rizban
2014-02-13, 02:15 PM
Changelog Class: Gladiator Fixed typos.
Unorthodox Maneuvers edited for readability and clarity.
Class: Acrobat – Acrobatic Leaping and Acrobatic Swinging edited for readability and clarity.
Class: Expert – fixed some typos.
Class: Augur – Changed table slightly
Class: Spellblade – Edits to Spellcasting and Spell Conduit abilities.


Archetype: Assassin Craft (poisonmaking) added to Archetype Skills
Poison Use moved to Lesser Power
Uncanny Dodge added to Moderate Power
Charming Killer capstone ability modified
Fixed typos
Archetype: Breathstealer Reorganized and reworded slightly for clarity.
Powerful Grapple ability moved from Lesser Power to Moderate Power.
Constrict ability increased to 2x Strength.
Mighty Wrestling added to Lesser Power.

Archetype: Force Adept added!
Archetype: Green Mage Woodland Stride ability moved to Lesser Power.
Whispers of the Wild ability moved to Moderate Power and changed from (Sp) to (Su).
Treant Sapling ability added to Greater Power.

Archetype: Huntsman – Added missing tables.
Archetype: Red Mage Added special exception for spellblades to the Orbs of Energy ability.
Added Blade Wind to the spell list.
Added Hurl Item to the spell list.
Archetype: Skirmisher Nimble moved to Lesser Power
Fast Movement added to Moderate Power
Skirmish Sneak Attack ability edited slightly.


Spells: Swim – Proper material component added.
Spells: Added several spells. Blade Wind
Call Item
Force Gem
Force Knife
Hurl Item
Mage Hand, Greater
Magic Missile Swarm
Magic Missile, Greater


Added Chapter 7: Monsters!

stack
2014-02-15, 01:18 PM
Glad to see you're back at it. I like the force adept, though I haven't had a chance to check the new spells yet.

Rizban
2014-02-25, 11:04 AM
Glad to see you're back at it. I like the force adept, though I haven't had a chance to check the new spells yet.

Glad you like it.


The more I look at the Troubadour, the less I like it. I mean, it does what I meant for it to do, but I just don't care for how it does it. If there are any ideas on improving it, I'd be glad to hear them!

Mighty_Chicken
2014-03-05, 03:50 PM
I agree the Troubatour lacks some sauce. It's like all the sauce must necessarily come from the archetypes.

(btw, the Troubatour is really missing access to an archetype that grants him minor magic capabilities. Magical aptitude is fine, but there should be and option to be more like the original Bard)

I like that the Troubatour is better than the bard in its role as party face and buffer. I'd happily play a troubatour - it's a simple class that represents exactly a certain kind of character I like playing. Maybe more auras could have the option to end abruptilly to grant a different effect, like the Distraction aura, or maybe he needs more active abilities like Fascinate.

I don't have any great ideas right now, but here are some minor comments on the class:

The definition of "social situations": does using a hurried Diplomacy check on the verge of starting a battle counts as a social situation or not? Did you let that ambiguous intentionally so DMs and players would fight over it? :)


Repose aura: bad for exploration focused campaigns. Cripples many mechanics that use self-inflicted fatigue and exhaustion (like some Spell Point variants). If you're looking for a very strong effect against fatigue and exhaustion, I'd suggest +2*aura bonus or +3*aura bonus vs effects that would cause fatigue or exhaustion, and/or fatigue and exhaustion healing [aura bonus] times faster within the aura range. Personally I wouldn't allow it for the aforementioned reasons, but I like the idea.

Auras that grant Fort, Ref and Will bonuses: granting bonuses to skills, initiative or damage reduction too was a great idea. Same goes for Vigor aura.

Inspire competence/ability: they do the same thing, except Inspire Ability also allowes for ability checks. I don't understand why the note about changing the aura as an standard action, since that's how all auras are supposed to work.

Quick thinking: why couldn't it be a straight Initiative bonus? How much difference would it do?

Social graces: I like the flavor of abilities that only allow you the reroll in your next turn. But this way, it's an almost at-will luck reroll for Bluff and Diplomacy, which is a good thing in defining the Troubatour as the best party face among the classes.

Magical aptitude: It's good as it is, but won't it escalate in any way? There you have 6-9 0-lvl spell slots per day that could be used to power other abilities, or to be combined with other abilites. What about casting as a swift action while performing (maybe, for balance reasons, it could disrupt the aura)? What about the save DC being based on Beguiling Influence rather than in spell level? Or Beguiling influence also adding new known cantrips, or being able to forget old cantrips and learn new ones? I'm not sure this class feature is still relevat at 6th level.

Rizban
2014-04-01, 11:42 PM
Major update time!

Changelog General: Reworked to accommodate new table code.
General: Minor post shuffle.


Archetype: Assassin Fixed several typos.

Archetype: Beastmaster Added specific spell list.
Wild Whispers changed from (Ex) to (Su).

Archetype: Brute Slight change to Indomitable ability.

Archetype: Duelist Renamed Flyn's Offense to Agrippa's Offense.
Added Gladiator capstone.

Archetype: Force Adept Minor formatting edits.

Archetype: Green Mage Change to Spellblade capstone.
Remove Disease spell moved from 3rd to 2nd level.
Added the following spells: Jump, Speak with Animals, Beastly Power, Wild Insight.
Removed the following spells: Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom, Reduce Animal, Soften Earth and Stone, Warp Wood, Greater Magic Fang.

Archetype: Hoplite Shield Offensive modified in respect to how tower shields are handled.
Specified weapon damage for tower shields.
Clarification on Improved Shield Offensive.
Clarification on Brawler capstone.
Clarification on Gladiator capstone.
Slight change to Sentinel capstone.

Archetype: Huntsman Added weapon proficiency.
Added Urban to list of Favored Environments.

Archetype: Priest Clarification to Divine Domains ability.
Clarification to Divine Touch.
Added missing "bonus" to Church Authority. Changed bonus increase from 6th level to 5th level.
Clarification on Third Domain.
Clarification on Fourth Domain.
Added maximum bonus amount to Spellblade capstone.
Added "(good only)" and "(evil only)" to certain spells.
Added the following spells: Cure Minor Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Poison.

Archetype: Pugilist Clarification on Penetrating Strike and Greater Penetrating Strike.
Removed Imbued Fist ability.

Archetype: Red Mage Clarification on Orbs of Energy ability.
Clarification to Spellbattle.
Clarification to Magus capstone.
Added the following spells: Open/Close, Touch of Fatigue, Elemental Weapon
Removed the following spells: Obscuring Mist, Flame Arrow, Ice Storm, Greater Magic Weapon, Sleet Storm

Archetype: Skirmisher Fixed minor typos.

Archetype: Template Complete change to how a Templar's Channeling ability and motes function.
Minor edits to channeling abilities.
Self Sacrifice ability modified to accommodate new mote system.

Archetype: Trapsmith Fixed minor typos.
Added the following spells: Detect Snares and Pits, Dispel Magic, Snare
Tactical Traps moved to their own section.

planswalker
2014-04-02, 06:03 AM
Impressed with the overall changes. I specifically like the changes to spell lists. I think they make more sense overall.

Btw, your table under the "feats" section which summarizes the new feats you've made hasn't been formatted yet.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-04-02, 06:39 AM
Impressed with the overall changes. I specifically like the changes to spell lists. I think they make more sense overall.

Btw, your table under the "feats" section which summarizes the new feats you've made hasn't been formatted yet.

I believe that's because he needs to figure out how to recreate the column span he had in that table.

Rizban
2014-04-02, 08:19 AM
The spell lists have definitely been in "beta". Now that there's been some play testing, I've been able to refine them a little more. I do need to get some of the homebrew spells posted still.

I believe that's because he needs to figure out how to recreate the column span he had in that table.

This. The system currently does not support spans. I'm trying to decide how to display that table and didn't have enough time last night to do that.

planswalker
2014-04-02, 04:59 PM
ah, that makes sense.

You know, I really like the look of the Huntsman and really want to make a skillful huntsman of some stripe sometime. Perhaps I'll try to talk my sister into co-dm'ing a game.

Rizban
2014-04-02, 07:52 PM
ah, that makes sense.

You know, I really like the look of the Huntsman and really want to make a skillful huntsman of some stripe sometime. Perhaps I'll try to talk my sister into co-dm'ing a game.I'm actually playing an Acrobat Huntsman in a game right now. It's really a neat little character. As long as I focus on positioning him to best help his allies, he's fun. The stacking Move Silently bonuses make him pretty sneaky, which really helps with the positioning. If I were to do it again though, I'd probably go with an Expert Huntsman.

planswalker
2014-04-03, 01:19 AM
I'll have to give that a try, then.

Lady Tialait
2014-04-03, 06:58 AM
Hey Rizban! Bet you didn't expect me! Woo!

You ever gunna get those Domains filled out? Great cosmology work on those, I just wish it was a bit more finished, on the mechanics side.

Rizban
2014-04-03, 07:06 AM
Hey Rizban! Bet you didn't expect me! Woo!

You ever gunna get those Domains filled out? Great cosmology work on those, I just wish it was a bit more finished, on the mechanics side.

Tia! Yep, that's actually my next goal. I've got another domain focused archetype in the works too, so it won't just be the priest using them.

Lady Tialait
2014-04-03, 08:20 AM
You do realize your cosmology set up for your E6 requires me to write a full campaign setting...you have stolen my free time...this isn't the first time Rizban. I shall have my revenge!

Rizban
2014-04-03, 10:31 AM
You do realize your cosmology set up for your E6 requires me to write a full campaign setting...you have stolen my free time...this isn't the first time Rizban. I shall have my revenge!

Mwa ha ha! :smallamused:

Can I help?

stack
2014-04-04, 11:03 AM
Reading back through the thread. Wow, did I write a lot of material! The old job got pretty slow, hence being the 'old' job. I'll chime in if I have any other ideas.

Rizban
2014-04-04, 11:11 AM
Reading back through the thread. Wow, did I write a lot of material! The old job got pretty slow, hence being the 'old' job. I'll chime in if I have any other ideas.It was quite helpful. I'm going back through a lot of the submitted material from different people to see what and where I can incorporate much of it.

Rizban
2014-04-04, 11:41 AM
We've got a minor update here.

Changelog Genereal: Updated tables throughout to incorporate the updated styling options of the new system.
Magic Classes: Re-added missing table information lost in the table transition.

stack
2014-04-04, 11:53 AM
It was quite helpful. I'm going back through a lot of the submitted material from different people to see what and where I can incorporate much of it.

I don't think you ever reviewed the Prosopon. Can't blame you, there was a lot there. Not really a core archetype, come to think of it. I really ought to go back and re-work it sometime.

Giddonihah
2014-05-18, 07:46 PM
I was originally going to run a generic classes e6 game, but when I saw this I decided to use it instead for my low magic e6 campaign.

Still a little bit unsure about the balance, it seems like noncombat classes could get oneshotted by a skirmishing/brute Brawler, and Sentinel hoplites look like they can become near impossible to hit without a 20 by anything except a Gladiator. The spellcaster and skilled archetypes also seem a bit anemic, are there any posted in the thread that are recommended balance wise?

In particular as Iv made Npcs with this system, I find myself puzzling on what feats to put on them, this system is just so self contained that feats seem almost an after thought when making a character.

Oh and one of my players wanted a background that gave Disguise and Bluff as class skils, so I came up with the Hunted (Wanted, Chased, Fugitive etc) background: Disguise and bluff becomes class skills, +2 bonus to both when hiding your identity.

Rizban
2014-05-18, 08:03 PM
I was originally going to run a generic classes e6 game, but when I saw this I decided to use it instead for my low magic e6 campaign.

Still a little bit unsure about the balance, it seems like noncombat classes could get oneshotted by a skirmishing/brute Brawler, and Sentinel hoplites look like they can become near impossible to hit without a 20 by anything except a Gladiator.Those things are somewhat intentional. If you specialize on one area, then you're the best in that area. The converse of that is that a Brawler really can't take much of a hit, and a Sentinel Hoplite is not going to be doing much offensively. A Sentinel isn't going to have very high touch AC, allowing special moves and such to still get through.


The spellcaster and skilled archetypes also seem a bit anemic, are there any posted in the thread that are recommended balance wise?The spellcasters are actually pretty decent based on real play. The spellblade is a bit strong and probably will be receiving some small nerfs the next time I post a revision. The skillful classes aren't terribly powerful in combat, but they're not really meant to be. They're meant to fill in the skill requirements of an adventuring party. If you don't have any skill challenges, then they're not going to feel useful.


In particular as Iv made Npcs with this system, I find myself puzzling on what feats to put on them, this system is just so self contained that feats seem almost an after thought when making a character.That's something I've also run into. I'm hoping to make some interesting feats that will work with this system. I've started trying to do some of that with the Combat Focus feats.


Oh and one of my players wanted a background that gave Disguise and Bluff as class skils, so I came up with the Hunted (Wanted, Chased, Fugitive etc) background: Disguise and bluff becomes class skills, +2 bonus to both when hiding your identity.I've pretty much ignored backgrounds. My balance point for them was to be the equivalent of about a feat and a half or a little better. That seems like a reasonable background to me.

r2d2go
2014-05-22, 01:11 AM
Trying again on domains, using mostly obscure spells. Will edit this as I figure more stuff out, I mostly just posted on my new E6 play by post and realized I might as well post here as well.

Good:
1st level - Ray of Hope (1 round/level Heroism, counters Sorrow, 1st level cleric/bard).
Might be a little strong, but it is a 1st level good descriptor spell.
2nd level - Angelskin (1 round/level DR 5/evil, 2nd level paladin)
While paladin occasionally gets grossly underleveled spells, I don't think this is one of them. DR 5/evil, while good, isn't particularly OP for a 2nd level spell, especially at 1 round/level. I mentioned it in my first set.

Evil:
1st level -Sorrow (as Ray of Hope, but -3 to each)
This is even stronger than Ray of Hope, but it's cleric 1/bard 1... maybe debuff it to -2?
2nd level - Bunch of options here. Potential things from PHB:
Death Knell
Animate Dead
Desecrate

Things from other books:
Sadism (+1 luck to rolls for each 10 damage dealt last round)
Masochism (+1 luck to rolls for each 10 damage taken last round)
Darkblast (Touch attack 1d8/2 levels, Fort or stun 1 round)
Summon Undead II

All Evil descriptor 2nd level spells. Death Knell is already in Death, but maybe reuse is okay? Eh.

Death:
2nd Level - Animate Dead, Summon Undead are both decent options.
3rd Level - Summon Undead III, maybe Vecna's Malevolent Whisper (Reduces creature at 10 or less HP to -9 and stable. Might also be a candidate for 2nd level?), maybe Opalescent Glare (save or die, if save then fear for 2d10 rounds for evil creatures of less than 5 HD, save or Fear for 2d10 rounds if more than 5 HD or nonevil. Save or die is a bit questionable, but is pretty restricted and with a debuff it could work better. I thought it also represented the whole "Death doesn't mean evil" thing well)

Chaos:
1st level - without the water thing, no idea.
2nd Level - Soul of Chaos is still an idea. Anarchic Storm is also decent (2d6/round to lawful, 5d6 vrs lawful outsider and a storm)

Law:
Same as Chaos.

That's what I came up with for the true/pure stuff. I'll probably do the rest some time :smalltongue:

Also, I still think Spellblade (redmage) + metamagic is a little crazy. At 3rd level, you can get 1d3+5 as a swift action, 3 times an encounter, plus 10d6 damage to one or 10d4 to a 15 foot cone.

Jeriah
2014-06-13, 06:07 PM
Trying again on domains, using mostly obscure spells. Will edit this as I figure more stuff out, I mostly just posted on my new E6 play by post and realized I might as well post here as well.

Good:
1st level - Ray of Hope (1 round/level Heroism, counters Sorrow, 1st level cleric/bard).
Might be a little strong, but it is a 1st level good descriptor spell.
2nd level - Angelskin (1 round/level DR 5/evil, 2nd level paladin)
While paladin occasionally gets grossly underleveled spells, I don't think this is one of them. DR 5/evil, while good, isn't particularly OP for a 2nd level spell, especially at 1 round/level. I mentioned it in my first set.

Evil:
1st level -Sorrow (as Ray of Hope, but -3 to each)
This is even stronger than Ray of Hope, but it's cleric 1/bard 1... maybe debuff it to -2?
2nd level - Bunch of options here. Potential things from PHB:
Death Knell
Animate Dead
Desecrate

Things from other books:
Sadism (+1 luck to rolls for each 10 damage dealt last round)
Masochism (+1 luck to rolls for each 10 damage taken last round)
Darkblast (Touch attack 1d8/2 levels, Fort or stun 1 round)
Summon Undead II

All Evil descriptor 2nd level spells. Death Knell is already in Death, but maybe reuse is okay? Eh.

Death:
2nd Level - Animate Dead, Summon Undead are both decent options.
3rd Level - Summon Undead III, maybe Vecna's Malevolent Whisper (Reduces creature at 10 or less HP to -9 and stable. Might also be a candidate for 2nd level?), maybe Opalescent Glare (save or die, if save then fear for 2d10 rounds for evil creatures of less than 5 HD, save or Fear for 2d10 rounds if more than 5 HD or nonevil. Save or die is a bit questionable, but is pretty restricted and with a debuff it could work better. I thought it also represented the whole "Death doesn't mean evil" thing well)

Chaos:
1st level - without the water thing, no idea.
2nd Level - Soul of Chaos is still an idea. Anarchic Storm is also decent (2d6/round to lawful, 5d6 vrs lawful outsider and a storm)

Law:
Same as Chaos.

That's what I came up with for the true/pure stuff. I'll probably do the rest some time :smalltongue:

Also, I still think Spellblade (redmage) + metamagic is a little crazy. At 3rd level, you can get 1d3+5 as a swift action, 3 times an encounter, plus 10d6 damage to one or 10d4 to a 15 foot cone.

Those look pretty good.

r2d2go
2014-07-18, 12:27 AM
Rizban, are you still here? If so, I've got a game using these rules going, plus some ideas :smalltongue:

Rizban
2014-07-18, 01:25 AM
Rizban, are you still here? :smalltongue: If so, I've got a game using these rules going, plus some ideas :smalltongue:

Yep. I'm actually running the system in a campaign for my live D&D group. We even met earlier tonight. :smalltongue:
I've also apparently agreed to DM for a pbp of this system that's recruiting right now.

I'd definitely like to see what you're suggesting. I've got a long list of changes and modifications and some new material that I just haven't had time to write out and post, but I'm always open to revising things if something better is suggested. :smallbiggrin:

r2d2go
2014-07-18, 02:39 AM
Ah, cool. Here's the IC thread (same campaign as the previous one, new players) http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?351650-IC-Rise-of-the-Kitka

As for the suggestions...

I was going to run through the existing domains again, but I think it'd be redundant with my older post for cross-element spells. However, I think the Convergent domains are pretty sparse, so I made a few of those.

Justice
Spheres: Law, Good
Granted Power
Choose one You gain a +4 morale bonus to saving throws against fear effects. At 6th level, this increases to Aura of Courage, as paladin. You may ask the gods for judgement of any action at will. This is identical to casting Augury, except that it tells you if an an action is just or unjust instead of its normal effect.
1 - Restoration, Lesser: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
1 - Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
2 - Calm Emotions: Calms creatures, negating emotion effects.
2 - Shield Other: You take half of subject’s damage.
3 - Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
3 - Prayer: Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty.

Freedom
Spheres: Chaos, Good
Granted Power
Choose one You gain a +4 morale bonus to saving throws against compulsion effects. At 6th level, this increases to Aura of Resolve, as Paladin of Freedom. You may act as if under the effects of Freedom of Movement for one round per level per day.
1 - Faerinaal's Hymn: One evil creature per level can't make AoOs.
1 - Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
2 - Freedom, Lesser: Removes any of the restraining effects Freedom of Movement negates.
2 - Remove Paralysis: Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
3 - Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
3 - Prayer: Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty.

Corruption
Spheres: Chaos, Evil
Granted Power
Choose one Whenever you cause a fear ability, those affected have a -2 penalty to their saves. At 6th level, this becomes an Aura of Fear, as Aura of Courage, but instead causes enemies to be Shaken (DC 13+Cha). When channeling positive energy or turning undead, you may instead channel negative energy and rebuke undead.
1 - Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds.
1 - Doom: Subject is Shaken.
2 - Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
2 - Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
3 - Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blinded or deafened.
3 - Animate Dead: Creates undead skeletons and zombies.

Tyranny
Spheres: Law, Evil
Granted Power
Choose one Enchantment (Compulsion) spells you cast have +2 to their save DCs. At 6th level, you gain an Aura of Despair, as Paladin of Tyranny. When channeling positive energy or turning undead, you may instead channel negative energy and rebuke undead.
1 - Confusion, Lesser: Subject is Confused for 1 round.
1 - Command: One subject obeys selected command for 1 round.
2 - Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
2 - Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
3 - Bestow Curse: -6 to an ability score; -4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action
3 - Animate Dead: Creates undead skeletons and zombies.

Chaotic Evil's name seems a little off... Anarchy? Entropy? Eh. I considered Contagion for the evil stuff, but decided Animate Dead was better and makes the energy swap thing more viable. I also made it "you may" for the same reason. Might do some more in a bit. How do you feel about Natural/Intent crosses?

I also still think Spellblade's metamagic should be altered a bit. It makes Quicken Spell amazing, with Twin Spell and Energy Admixture also in the running, because if you use them your encounters are likely to be shorter than your spell cooldowns. This makes the metamagic essentially free, which is probably not your intent. Maybe lowered caster level or a cooldown on metamagic itself? Just suggestions though, it's not game breaking on its own. Can't think of anything else at the moment, so that's it :smalltongue: anything look reasonable?

WindStruck
2014-07-18, 05:10 AM
Ok, here's a comment/suggestion: since this whole system seems quite different, there's absolutely no reason that if the brawler class had a full BaB progression, that they'd HAVE to get an iterative attack. If that was the only thing stopping you, you could just throw it out.

Rizban
2014-07-18, 05:16 AM
Conversation from the other thread:
Uh, Rizban, is there a reason why Brawler is 3/4 BAB?

Because it gets bonus attacks from flurry and an expanded crit range and crit multiplier with its weapons. It had to take a hit somewhere...


That is true, but as a combat-oriented class, I think it only makes sense to have full BaB progression. I think it might pan out better if the class had full BaB, but the flurry abilities had a bigger penalty. Basically, I think it should be a strategic choice for a player to decide whether they want to use it or not, not a no-brainer in every possible scenario.
I'm going to stick by my design on that one, as giving it full BAB is also giving it an iterative attack.

Brawler is supposed to be an agile skirmisher that focuses on speed and positioning and delivering a few telling blows rather than standing there slugging it out for as many hits as possible. Flurry of Strikes already allows it to do more attacks than the two full BAB classes, and I don't feel like it will remain balanced against the other two if it has the same BAB, 2 more attacks than they can make, a much higher chance of dealing criticals, and doing much more damage on a critical.

If I were to give Brawler full BAB, I would have to reduce Flurry to a single extra attack and increase the penalty for it to keep it balanced. As a kind of defining feature of the class, I don't want to discourage its use. Keep in mind that the Brawler is not the 3.X Monk. It can actually hold its own with the other classes as written and even out performs them in some cases.


Ok, here's a comment/suggestion: since this whole system seems quite different, there's absolutely no reason that if the brawler class had a full BaB progression, that they'd HAVE to get an iterative attack. If that was the only thing stopping you, you could just throw it out.

I'd rather not just outright change the rule on how BAB works from how the core d20 mechanic has it defined. The system is designed to work on the d20 chassis as opposed to rewriting it. I really don't see why missing out on +2 BAB is that big of an issue, especially if you're just going to deny them the iterative attack anyway.

WindStruck
2014-07-18, 06:05 AM
It's not a terribly big issue. I just thought the option to make a single, more-accurate attack would be nice. I was originally going to suggest that you specifically state that if the brawler makes a single attack that round, that they are treated as having full BaB, but the end result was pretty much what I suggested.

Ironically, when you said THIS:

Brawler is supposed to be an agile skirmisher that focuses on speed and positioning and delivering a few telling blows rather than standing there slugging it out for as many hits as possible.
I thought you achieved the exact opposite.

It seems to me the brawler just runs up to someone and starts pummeling them as fast as possible. Sure there's the speed, but I don't see the "positioning". All its abilities basically revolve around increasing number of attacks, enhancing criticals of those attacks, and increasing movement speed.

The gladiator is more what you described as a goal for your brawler. Its Unorthodox maneuvers are perfect examples, where you line foes up that are next to each other, directly behind one another, or even on opposite sides of you. And in order to help do this, the gladiator can take a 10-foot step.

I think if you swapped a few of their qualities, you could have two quite distinct classes: One that engages in combat quickly and dishes out a lot of damage while shrugging off the attacks of his enemies. The other, who positions himself in the battlefield strategically, performing skillful maneuvers and vexing his foes that never mastered the advanced techniques of fighting.

Keledrath
2014-07-18, 07:12 AM
Yeah, I feel the brawler should have full BAB for the same reason Warblade does: Attack Bonus, not full attacks. It's just a matter of accuracy. They still won't be standing toe-to-toe with people, given the d8 HD, Light Armor only, and no additional source of AC.

WindStruck
2014-07-18, 11:02 AM
Something else I just realized. Brawler only has proficiency with simple weapons. That honestly ought to be all the "hit" in damage you need, and it seems to make sense... at least if we go along with the sort of hard-hitting no-technique fighter view.

Rizban
2014-07-18, 12:50 PM
Brawler focuses on hit-and-run. It's designed to get multiple attacks, yes, but it's meant to do so without standing around to do so, remaining highly mobile. It's built to encourage that play style while discouraging another one. By "positioning," I mostly meant moving in for a flank.

Gladiator is focused on being able to manipulate the battlefield a bit, hit very consistently, and use tactical options offensively. It's the trained warrior.

Sentinel is meant to stand there and take abuse and throw itself in harm's way for an ally while still being able to do some damage when the enemy gets close.

The point is to keep each distinct from the others so that class is a meaningful choice. If you introduce larger amounts of overlap into the base classes, then they start to lose that.

Frankly, I feel that the last paragraph in the earlier post already describes the two classes well.

As to weapon proficiencies on the Brawler, there are a couple of Archetypes that provide some martial weapon proficiencies. So, I don't feel the lack there is too significant.


On another note, I've run numbers on these classes pretty extensively. On average, the three classes are pretty equally effective. The Brawler and Gladiator do pretty similar damage on average, but the Brawler is more likely to do more damage and to end fights through damage. Sentinel falls behind some on damage output, but it's supposed to do that.

r2d2go
2014-07-18, 02:52 PM
Honestly, gotta agree with Rizban on the Brawler thing. Since "A brawler may make a flurry of strikes as part of any melee attack action using any weapons with which he is proficient", it really encourages moving around rather than staying - you get the same attacks regardless. If you added BAB, it'd change this at 6th level, because now you have to full attack to get your value's worth. Additionally, as a Brawler, you have a continuous 10-40% chance of hitting regardless of attack bonus in the form of a critical hit (and also get a sizeable bonus to confirm), which means that your attack bonus is somewhat less important. The addition of what is essentially a bonus to fast Tumble makes the class an excellent skirmisher overall. In my opinion, adding BAB is both unnecessary and detracts from the skirmishing aspect.

On a related note, Brawler+Skirmisher is pretty powerful :smalltongue: keen weapons are pretty viable in terms of cost at level 6, which means with a +2 strength race and a +1 stat item, you can have a 13-20/x3 +1 keen falchion, attacking at +12 for 2d4+11+2d6 for an average of 41.4 damage per hit, which is pretty solid. It's not really comparable to AoE damage (or even just a volley of Scorching Ray for 24d6), but it's excellent for (somewhat) sustained melee damage, and only drops 5.6 damage without the capstone.

Keledrath
2014-07-18, 03:29 PM
I suppose. I guess it's just an instinctive reaction to seeing
Primary Melee
d8 HD
3/4 BAB
Flurry of Blows
Fast Movement

Rizban
2014-07-18, 03:36 PM
I suppose. I guess it's just an instinctive reaction to seeing
Primary Melee
d8 HD
3/4 BAB
Flurry of Blows
Fast MovementWhich is why I'm not changing it. :smallwink: This isn't your 3.x Monk.

Brawler was the first class I designed for this system. I balanced all of the other classes around it. Since it is the standard for balance for the system, it competes pretty well with everything but munchkined spellcasters.

WindStruck
2014-07-18, 05:51 PM
Could you explain how moving around is "encouraged". I just don't see it. I mean, you CAN. But that doesn't mean you should.

And we shouldn't be conflating this with the skirmisher archetype and always assuming we go brawler+skirmisher. It is the skirmisher that benefits from moving around, and that's how it should be labeled.

Rizban
2014-07-18, 06:48 PM
Could you explain how moving around is "encouraged". I just don't see it. I mean, you CAN. But that doesn't mean you should.

And we shouldn't be conflating this with the skirmisher archetype and always assuming we go brawler+skirmisher. It is the skirmisher that benefits from moving around, and that's how it should be labeled.Bonuses to move speed, light armor only, lower HD, no penalties to attacks for movement.

r2d2go
2014-07-19, 01:04 AM
Could you explain how moving around is "encouraged". I just don't see it. I mean, you CAN. But that doesn't mean you should.


In addition to what rizban said, you get hit about half as often if you move around (more against enemies with lots of attacks, less against enemies with just one). The increased speed means that you can move in for flanking and attack. Then, next turn, you can attack and move back. This forces your opponent to either forgo a full attack and charge, or attack someone closer (like a Sentinel or Gladiator, who are both more durable). Next turn, you can move and attack again. In this way, you essentially force your opponent to not get full attacks on you, yet you get almost your full value of attacks every turn. Plus, you gain quite literally nothing from not moving, unless you somehow have more attacks than your BAB normally allows (haste, natural attacks).



And we shouldn't be conflating this with the skirmisher archetype and always assuming we go brawler+skirmisher. It is the skirmisher that benefits from moving around, and that's how it should be labeled.

Probably shouldn't have used that as an example, especially since that little optimization was mostly just to show power, not argue for mobility. Here's another example, though: If you use Brute instead, when you're raging, you have +4 Con for a little durability, you have +2 to attack, and you deal almost as much (34.2 damage an attack). If you take Huntsman, your critical threat range increases to 12-20/x3, and if you're against a primary favored enemy you do significantly more damage (51.3 damage an attack) - even with just base +2 favored enemy bonus, you're dealing 43.7 a hit. Mostly I was just trying to say that it's a pretty powerful class :smalltongue:

Jeriah
2014-07-20, 06:58 AM
Huntsman also grants some weapon proficiencies.

r2d2go
2014-08-27, 08:45 PM
Remembered this thread, throwing up part two of the adventure using these rules:

A New World (IC) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368223-IC-A-New-World)

A New World (OoC, character sheets) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367714-OoC-A-New-World)

Rizban
2014-09-13, 12:08 PM
Changelog General: Updated codes across all tables.
General: Formatting changes across all Classes and Archetypes


Class: Brawler – Corrected typo.
Class: Magus – Great Lore bonus increased.


Archetype: Assassin – Slight wording changes.
Archetype: Beastmaster – Removed errant reference to “druid”.
Archetype: Duelist – Changed Rhythm ability restrictions.
Archetype: Force Adept Piercing Missiles – Clarification
Force Wave – Slight change
Magus – Missile Master – Changed to 3 rounds.
Archetype: Hoplite Shield Offensive – Tower shield clarification.
Defensive Maneuvers – Clarification
Brawler Befuddling Blow – Slight change
Archetype: Huntsman – Changed armor proficiency
Archetype: Pugilist – Reworded Unarmed Strike ability.
Archetype: Red Mage – Nimble added armor limitation.
Archetype: Skirmisher – Nimble added armor limitation.
Archetype: Templar Channeling – Clarification
Restorative Touch – Wording change.
Archetype: Trapsmith – Damage resistance from Trap Defense ability given a damage type.


Feats: Finally fixed feats table after forum updates.
Feats: Slight changes to metamagic.

Jeriah
2014-10-08, 05:47 AM
Changelog General: Updated codes across all tables.
General: Formatting changes across all Classes and Archetypes


Class: Brawler – Corrected typo.
Class: Magus – Great Lore bonus increased.


Archetype: Assassin – Slight wording changes.
Archetype: Beastmaster – Removed errant reference to “druid”.
Archetype: Duelist – Changed Rhythm ability restrictions.
Archetype: Force Adept Piercing Missiles – Clarification
Force Wave – Slight change
Magus – Missile Master – Changed to 3 rounds.
Archetype: Hoplite Shield Offensive – Tower shield clarification.
Defensive Maneuvers – Clarification
Brawler Befuddling Blow – Slight change
Archetype: Huntsman – Changed armor proficiency
Archetype: Pugilist – Reworded Unarmed Strike ability.
Archetype: Red Mage – Nimble added armor limitation.
Archetype: Skirmisher – Nimble added armor limitation.
Archetype: Templar Channeling – Clarification
Restorative Touch – Wording change.
Archetype: Trapsmith – Damage resistance from Trap Defense ability given a damage type.


Feats: Finally fixed feats table after forum updates.
Feats: Slight changes to metamagic. Just went over those. Looks good to me. You clarified a few of the things my local group had questions about, so that's great.