Monk Build + Two Half Breeds?

[Gwazi Magnum]

I am currently working on making a Monk starting at level 8 with the rolled ability scores of 17, 16, 16, 15, 12, 10 (note: This is not a boosted campaign, I just happened to get the best rolls in the group).

General Monk advice would be most appreciated (along with clarification on what makes tripping and grappling so useful, I never understood that).

However, there two other questions in terms of Monks I have.

1. Lycanthropy, is this a good idea?
I am debating between:
-Wererat (High Dex boost, low level change)
-Weretiger (Good Attribute increase +Imp Natural Attack)
-Werebear (Amazing Attribute boost)

Note: Before you say the lycanthrope's LA and/or HD are too high for level 8. I'll be using the Dragon Magazine #313 level up variant for them instead.

2. Combining two half breeds?
For example I am currently looking at Half-Minotaur, would this first off be a good race for a Monk? And secondly could I mix it with another half breed (like example: Half-Nymph/Half-Minotaur [I don't actually plan on Nymph however]) or would d&d only allow for one half breed race with the other half having to be standard like human, elf, orc etc?

[Karnith]

1. Lycanthropy, is this a good idea?
I am debating between:
-Wererat (High Dex boost, low level change)
-Weretiger (Good Attribute increase +Imp Natural Attack)
-Werebear (Amazing Attribute boost)
Lycanthropy is generally not a very good idea, both because of the relatively high level-adjustment involved (+3 for natural lycanthropes), and because it involves taking animal hit dice, which provide a pretty mediocre chassis (3/4 BAB and d8 HD are not good for someone who wants to be good at melee combat, and 2 + Int skill points is just bad). Generally speaking, you would be better off taking actual class levels than being a werecreature.

Related question: I don't actually have Dragon 313, but are the lycanthrope classes presented there like the Savage Species classes, in that you must progress through all of the levels before you may take levels in other classes?

2. Combining two half breeds?
For example I am currently looking at Half-Minotaur, would this first off be a good race for a Monk? And secondly could I mix it with another half breed (like example: Half-Nymph/Half-Minotaur [I don't actually plan on Nymph however]) or would d&d only allow for one half breed race with the other half having to be standard like human, elf, orc etc?
You can combine multiple Half-x templates on the same character (if you have two, they become quarter-x). And while Half-Minotaur is a good choice for melee-based builds, I would recommend against adding too many templates to your character, especially if you aren't going to be able to buy off your level adjustment. Level adjustments above +2 are generally not worth it because of how severely they delay your advancement through classes.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh boy, monk and lycantropy. Anyway first of all what is your concept for this character? A hard hitting unarmed striker? A lightly armoured fighter who employs hit and run tactics? Or a warrior empowered by mystic powers? Because there are a few classes that fill those niche and are far stronger than monk like Unarmed Swordsage or pyschic warrior (which can be combine with monk; but it needs a Setting specific feat).

Tripping is really good because you can deny your opponents actions, every round they spend on the ground trying to get up is another round they can't use to try to kill you and your party (spellcasters as always aren't as bothered by this; but at the right optimization level nothing really bother them). Grappling is in theory the same; but in my opinion it is far worse than tripping since you also take yourself out of the fight that way and unless you are fighting humanoid opponents it is quite difficult to beat a monster's grapple check without being a monster yourself.

As for general monk advice, I suggest you to look into ACF, monk have tons of them an most are a strict upgrade, for example the variant combat styles from Unearthed Arcana give you a lot of options, Martial Monk (Dragon something) is incredibly awesome or meh depending on your reading, invisible fist is a must have IMO since you can buy evasion relatively cheap. Darkmoon disciple is also pretty good for sneaky monks.

As far a lycanthropy goes, I would advice against it, while the stat boost can be really useful, you loose your class features (even if you are getting them level by level), I would advice going for Half Minotaur which only eats one level and gives ridiculous stat boosts (remember you get some bonus and penalties if you go from medium to large in addition to the ones normally boosted by the template).

As far as stacking templates, you can as long as all templates are legal and stacked in the right oder, for example Half minotaur can only be applied to humanoids or monstrous humanoids (IIRC) so you could stack it on top of a shifter; but not on a half dragon human since they have the Dragon subtype, though if you applied the half minotaur template first and then applied the half dragon it would be legal since Half Dragon can be applied to any living corporeal creature.

Does it makes sense?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Lycanthropy is generally not a very good idea, both because of the relatively high level-adjustment involved (+3 for natural lycanthropes), and because it involves taking animal hit dice, which provide a pretty mediocre chassis (3/4 BAB and d8 HD are not good for someone who wants to be good at melee combat, and 2 + Int skill points is just bad). Generally speaking, you would be better off taking actual class levels than being a werecreature.

Related question: I don't actually have Dragon 313, but are the lycanthrope classes presented there like the Savage Species classes, in that you must progress through all of the levels before you may take levels in other classes?

You can combine multiple Half-x templates on the same character (if you have two, they become quarter-x). And while Half-Minotaur is a good choice for melee-based builds, I would recommend against adding too many templates to your character, especially if you aren't going to be able to buy off your level adjustment. Level adjustments above +2 are generally not worth it because of how severely they delay your advancement through classes.

So, would the stats change at all it became quarter-x? Or would it be just as effective if they were Half? Also can it go any lower than quarter or is that the farthest I can go?

For Lycanthrope, note than Monk has hd8 which is the same as more animals, lower than some animals even, and they share the same BAB growth.
As for the Dragon rule, I don't know for sure but it looks you do need to go through them all first. It more seems like a way to let people be lycanthope's who would otherwise not be able to due to the Level restriction set by a DM.



Oh boy, monk and lycantropy. Anyway first of all what is your concept for this character? A hard hitting unarmed striker? A lightly armoured fighter who employs hit and run tactics? Or a warrior empowered by mystic powers? Because there are a few classes that fill those niche and are far stronger than monk like Unarmed Swordsage or pyschic warrior (which can be combine with monk; but it needs a Setting specific feat).

Tripping is really good because you can deny your opponents actions, every round they spend on the ground trying to get up is another round they can't use to try to kill you and your party (spellcasters as always aren't as bothered by this; but at the right optimization level nothing really bother them). Grappling is in theory the same; but in my opinion it is far worse than tripping since you also take yourself out of the fight that way and unless you are fighting humanoid opponents it is quite difficult to beat a monster's grapple check without being a monster yourself.

As for general monk advice, I suggest you to look into ACF, monk have tons of them an most are a strict upgrade, for example the variant combat styles from Unearthed Arcana give you a lot of options, Martial Monk (Dragon something) is incredibly awesome or meh depending on your reading, invisible fist is a must have IMO since you can buy evasion relatively cheap. Darkmoon disciple is also pretty good for sneaky monks.

As far a lycanthropy goes, I would advice against it, while the stat boost can be really useful, you loose your class features (even if you are getting them level by level), I would advice going for Half Minotaur which only eats one level and gives ridiculous stat boosts (remember you get some bonus and penalties if you go from medium to large in addition to the ones normally boosted by the template).

As far as stacking templates, you can as long as all templates are legal and stacked in the right oder, for example Half minotaur can only be applied to humanoids or monstrous humanoids (IIRC) so you could stack it on top of a shifter; but not on a half dragon human since they have the Dragon subtype, though if you applied the half minotaur template first and then applied the half dragon it would be legal since Half Dragon can be applied to any living corporeal creature.

Does it makes sense?

My idea of a Monk was someone who did three things mainly

1. Was fast in the battlefield
2. Was hard to hit
3. Damaging and Skilled Fist Fighter

Character history was planned to be he was found wandering (or left as a baby) by a temple of Monks and was raised and trained by them.

Tripping seems nice in that regard, but wouldn't out right damaging/killing the enemy be preferable?

The Half-Breed system I am following you on though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

So, would the stats change at all it became quarter-x? Or would it be just as effective if they were Half? Also can it go any lower than quarter or is that the farthest I can go?

For Lycanthrope, note than Monk has hd8 which is the same as more animals, lower than some animals even, and they share the same BAB growth.
As for the Dragon rule, I don't know for sure but it looks you do need to go through them all first. It more seems like a way to let people be lycanthope's who would otherwise not be able to due to the Level restriction set by a DM.




My idea of a Monk was someone who did three things mainly

Swordsage does all of this
1. Was fast in the battlefield: Thanks to the maneuver system they can move and attack in the same round without completely neutering their damage output,t hey are slower than monks though.
2. Was hard to hitMonks usually have low AC since they can't get enchanted armour and upgrading Wis and Dex becomes costly quite fast; swordsages get Wis to AC and can wear light armour so they will usually have better AC than a monk of the same level, they also have other types of defences such as substituting AC for a Sense motive roll (and skill checks are incredibly easy to pump), or using a concentration check instead of a save
3. Damaging and Skilled Fist Fighter There is a variant that gives you the monk unarmed strike class feature, including the increased damage die in addition to all the maneuvers that can increase your damage output.

Character history was planned to be he was found wandering (or left as a baby) by a temple of Monks and was raised and trained by them.Swordsage have very similar fluff to monks as printed.

Tripping seems nice in that regard, but wouldn't out right damaging/killing the enemy be preferable?With Improved trip you can make a free trip attempt everytime you trip them, and usually you try to trip people as an AoO, on your round you full attack as normal.

The Half-Breed system I am following you on though.
Answers in bold.

[Pandoras Folly]

Half minotaur half human

You get a +4 str +2 con and wis -2 int, darkvision 60, scent, +2 spot search and listen +10 movement and a gore attack
Then for being large you get +8 strength +4 con and minus 2 to dex, plus 2 natural armor

Human gets you xtra skill points and aGRAVY xtra feat, monks are feat hungry you need it.

Take improved natural attack and you are doing Huge sized damage add in superior unarmed strike add 5 lvls to your damage progression as a monk.

The only.other race I found in my research to be worth it was the Goliath


Multiclass with psionics, it has lots of useful stuff and with tashlatora feat allows a psionic class to stack with monk for your progressive monk abilitied
expansion id a psionic power is a power that is great
A

[Karnith]

So, would the stats change at all it became quarter-x? Or would it be just as effective if they were Half? Also can it go any lower than quarter or is that the farthest I can go?
The template would always be applied the same way, regardless of the "strength" of the bloodline. So whether the character is half-minotaur (for example), quarter-minotaur, or what have you, he would always get the full benefit of the half-minotaur template. You can go as far down as you want, into quarters, eighths, sixteenths, etc.; the only thing stopping you are the number of half-x templates and type changes that would prevent you from adding more templates. That, and trying to manage an enormous level adjustment.

For Lycanthrope, note than Monk has hd8 which is the same as more animals, lower than some animals even, and they share the same BAB growth.
While that is true, monks have class features that (at least in theory) make up for their poor chassis. In reality, of course, monks are pretty terrible melee combatants, and animal hit dice have worse saves (dire animals excepted) and no class features, in addition to the +3 level adjustment, making them even worse in comparison. Their stat boosts in the hybrid/animal forms are not enough to make up for all of those lost levels, even for those with relatively low ECL adjustments, like wererat. Things like were-tiger or were-bear, which are ECL +9, are just horrible.

If you want to stay combat-effective, you would really be better off taking levels of monk (or, better yet, some other class) than becoming a lycanthrope. If you want to/have to be a were-creature for story reasons, or if you really just want to be one, then we can try to help you with that, but if you're just trying to be an effective monk you'd be better off not becoming a lycanthrope.

As for the Dragon rule, I don't know for sure but it looks you do need to go through them all first. It more seems like a way to let people be lycanthope's who would otherwise not be able to due to the Level restriction set by a DM.
I only asked because without that restriction, taking only a level or two in the lycanthrope class may be worth it (I don't have the class progressions in front of me, so I don't know). If you have to progress through the whole thing, though, I would recommend against it.

[GreenETC]

For Lycanthrope, note than Monk has hd8 which is the same as more animals, lower than some animals even, and they share the same BAB growth.

The problem with this is that they are cumulative, meaning taking a 3/4 BaB class and a 3/4 BaB Animal HD means you are down not one, but 2 whole BaB points, which translates to a lot of difference when you're going for multiple hits.

If you're looking for an unarmed fighter, particularly with some animal flavor, I would recommend going for a Bear Warrior Barbarian build with the Street Fighter ACF, since it accomplishes that well, and level 8 is the first level it kicks off. Fist of the Forest also works well with that sort of an idea.