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Drakefall
2013-02-28, 10:40 AM
Good day Playgrounders.

One of my RP groups has recently gotten a new addition to its roster. The fellow in question is very enthusiastic, yet is having a little bit of difficulty wrapping his head around how exactly to become a good roleplayer.

The GM and myself are helping him out with what advice we can, and I have scrounged up a few links to other playground threads that deal with the topic, but I thought it'd be good for him to get some varied answers.

Thus I appeal to the playground for any bits of wisdom or links to helpful discussions on the topic that they may provide. I will send him a link to this thread and I'm sure it'll be very helpful.

JusticeZero
2013-02-28, 10:43 AM
What sort've trouble is he having? Can you perhaps link their character to a fictional one (who isn't exceptionally powerful) and get that idea through?

AttilaTheGeek
2013-02-28, 08:53 PM
I have a semi-related question:

I'm starting up a new campaign, and I've never DMed before. I have four completely new players, and one player who is nice and friendly, but the last player is the only one I know who has even more of the SRD memorized than I do. He wants to help "teach" the newer players some of the jargon by completely immersing them in it, and it's failed spectacularly in the past.

How should I help teach the new players what's going on, both mechanics- and roleplaying-wise, without having them be overwhelmed by the more experienced player?

ArcturusV
2013-02-28, 09:02 PM
Well, without knowing more what I typically mention to new players to help them Roleplay is...

"Think of your character like a character in a movie. When you approach a situation ask yourself what you'd see a character (like yours) in a movie do, how, why. Then when you start applying those ideas to your character... that's roleplaying. The point where you start saying things like "I charge the goblin with a battlecry and hack at it's neck!" instead of saying "I charge and roll an attack". Everything else just spins off from that point."

As for the Jargon Guy?

Tell him to keep his jargon to official terms, rules terms, only to start off with. Explain stuff as it comes up. When you're dealing with Official, Rules Terms only, the Jargon isn't anywhere near as severe.

Once they're handy with the rules jargon and you hear them comfortable referencing them, saying "What's it's touch AC?" rather than "What do I have to roll to hit him with Shocking Grasp?", THEN you can sprinkle in the less direct rules related jargon.

Jack of Spades
2013-02-28, 10:09 PM
Well, without knowing more what I typically mention to new players to help them Roleplay is...

"Think of your character like a character in a movie. When you approach a situation ask yourself what you'd see a character (like yours) in a movie do, how, why. Then when you start applying those ideas to your character... that's roleplaying. The point where you start saying things like "I charge the goblin with a battlecry and hack at it's neck!" instead of saying "I charge and roll an attack". Everything else just spins off from that point."

As for the Jargon Guy?

Tell him to keep his jargon to official terms, rules terms, only to start off with. Explain stuff as it comes up. When you're dealing with Official, Rules Terms only, the Jargon isn't anywhere near as severe.

Once they're handy with the rules jargon and you hear them comfortable referencing them, saying "What's it's touch AC?" rather than "What do I have to roll to hit him with Shocking Grasp?", THEN you can sprinkle in the less direct rules related jargon.

This. All of it.

Kol Korran
2013-03-01, 03:16 AM
Good day Playgrounders.

One of my RP groups has recently gotten a new addition to its roster. The fellow in question is very enthusiastic, yet is having a little bit of difficulty wrapping his head around how exactly to become a good roleplayer.

The GM and myself are helping him out with what advice we can, and I have scrounged up a few links to other playground threads that deal with the topic, but I thought it'd be good for him to get some varied answers.

Thus I appeal to the playground for any bits of wisdom or links to helpful discussions on the topic that they may provide. I will send him a link to this thread and I'm sure it'll be very helpful.
First we need to udnerstand what do you mean exactly by roleplaying, sicne this can be interperted as many things by different people. to some it's "how to play your character", to others is "to understand the rules and mechanics", to some it's "make optimal beat-the-encounter decisions" and so on. Can you explain your problem more clearly? an example or two might help greatly.


I have a semi-related question:

I'm starting up a new campaign, and I've never DMed before. I have four completely new players, and one player who is nice and friendly, but the last player is the only one I know who has even more of the SRD memorized than I do. He wants to help "teach" the newer players some of the jargon by completely immersing them in it, and it's failed spectacularly in the past.

How should I help teach the new players what's going on, both mechanics- and roleplaying-wise, without having them be overwhelmed by the more experienced player?

If I understand your question correctly, this these are actually two questions- how to get the players to understand the rules (and jargon) better, and the other is about how to help them rolepaly their characters better. I got no original advice here, but a few things that might help:

rules wise
I'd suggest to focus on the basics at first: how to attack your target melle and ranged, how to calculate damage, movement and types of actions, how do spells work, and how do skills work. as Arcturus said, once they grasp these things, add more (like combat maneuvers, special defenses and attacks like energy attacks, DR, SR and so on). a few things that might help:
1. Make simple summarized, concise sheets for the players, explaining the basic rules, not the entire PHB, such as:
melee attack= Base Attack Bonus (BAB)+ strength+ magic+....
then go over these with the party at the start, make sure they understand the terms, and know where the relevant numbers are on their character sheet. do this at the beginning of the session, and perhaps at the recaps (if the players want) I suggest at hinting for more complex actions, but just that- hinting. enterprising players might read more.

2. run a series of simple encounters, each one focusing on 2-3 mechanics at most. don't rush things and let the players become comfortable with these, but slowly add more, more and so on (a great way to do so is to have the opponents use such rules, and explain them. such as cover, ranged fire, or using alchemical ites and such. the playerswill soon catch on.

an important thing is to be clear on the rules and explain them (briefly, don't bog the game) when the opportunity arises. for example- when an enemy is using cover, explain that their AC was X, but due to the cover it's now Y, much harder to hit (and put some places the party might take cover as well).

some people run a sort of a "training adventure" for new players, like they are soldiers of an army or some organization, and they are being tested and shown how to best use their skills. however, not everyone likes these things (I imagine your veteran player won't), and it's quite fine to do this within a potentially lethal adventure, but make a wide room for misconceptions and mistakes. on the over all I suggest making beginner adventures less lethal, since the players misunderstanding the rules and possibilities adds greatly to the danger factor

3. make the veteran player your aid: this may or may not work depending on how much he's willing to cooperate, but It might be worth a try. when making the pages, plannign your adventure, take the player aside before the session and ask him to focus on helping the players understand JUST rules x, y, z, m, n for now. aks his help to help them master it, but not bombard them with too much info, explain to him the rational.

Roleplaying their characters
there is an interesting thread by Frozen Feet talking about letting new players roleplay themselves first. I'm not sure about my opinion about it yet, but it's worth a read. a few things I found helped me:
1. ask each player to describe 3 defining characteristics about his character. I'm not talking about their class, race, what they can do, but rather how they behave and make decisions. these can help give new players anchors to base themselves about at first.
2. ask them to define two characteristics referring to 2 other members of the group "dwarves irritate me!" , "I always trusted the priests of Kord" , and so on. a lot of roleplay comes from the party interacting within itself. you find way too many parties composed of odd group of people with little to no connection or covnersations between them. D&D is a social game, try to encourage roleplay inside the group, not just at the DM.
3. present "roleplay opportunities" for the players to interact with. I'm not talking just about the way too prevalent moral dilemmas that many groups like, but about simple tavenr scenes, fairs, and so on. at first try to aim directly at the characteristics given to you about the characters, but don't forget- AIM TO INTEREST THE PLAYERS, NOT PCS! you need to get the players hooked, the PCs will soon follow.
4. a suggestion about this though- try to make a scene to appeal to 2+ of your characters (roleplay wise). so it begets wider interaction. many times when a scene only interest one player (or less than half the group) the player chooses not to interact because he thinks this will bore the rest. such scenes are often a bit more complex, but well worth.
5. there is an important rule in improvisational acting called "Yes, and..." which means you try to find a way to build upon the input the players gives you, and add to it. this usually means you rarely utterly block a player, but you can make things quite hard and challenging. This rule helped me quite a lot, as DM and player, in roleplay applications.
6. for struggling players, I suggest basing their characters on TV/ movie/ book/ comic figures and work from their, it may feel "less original", but C'mon!

as in any aspect of RPGs I suggest these for beginning players:

explain possibilities, either before or after an encounter with new elements/ possibilities. if before this can be done in the form of hitns not to ruin the surprise
encourage people to act in ways that add fun to the game, a positive word, smile or such can greatly help
lasly, but quite important- let people experiment, and explore- mechanics and roleplay wise. try to have some beneficial outcome to their exploration (possibly with bad outcome, or hardships, but something making the experiment worthwhile). in dangerous situation feel free to add words of caution, but if you can, try not to foster an atmosphere of "make the wrong move and you're dead!" a real party downer for new players, and not the right lesson. (later more lethal themed games may go that way, but not an option i'd choose for beginners)



hope this helps, sorry for the length... I tend to get wordy :smallwink:

Drakefall
2013-03-01, 04:51 AM
What sort've trouble is he having? Can you perhaps link their character to a fictional one (who isn't exceptionally powerful) and get that idea through?


First we need to udnerstand what do you mean exactly by roleplaying, sicne this can be interperted as many things by different people. to some it's "how to play your character", to others is "to understand the rules and mechanics", to some it's "make optimal beat-the-encounter decisions" and so on. Can you explain your problem more clearly? an example or two might help greatly.

Alrighty.

Well he doesn't have much of a problem with grasping of the rules. He's getting there no slower than anyone else.

What I'm specifically trying to find for him is advice on roleplaying, not for his specific character at the moment, but in general. The actual pretending to be someone else part, without that someone else being a crazy murder-hobo.

If it helps he's currently playing an assassin in our Dark Heresy game.

So far the advice we've given him has gone along the lines of picking a paticular aspect of his own personality to focus on as the core of the character he wants to play and emphasise this while making rational IC decisions.



hope this helps, sorry for the length... I tend to get wordy :smallwink:
No worries, I'm a fan of words. It was most helpful.:smallsmile:

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far!

Kol Korran
2013-03-01, 08:25 AM
What I'm specifically trying to find for him is advice on roleplaying, not for his specific character at the moment, but in general. The actual pretending to be someone else part, without that someone else being a crazy murder-hobo.

hmmmm... does he expresses an interest, makes an effort to roleplay his character? not everyone who gets into roleplay games WANTS to roleplay a character. many just love the opportunity to let loose, kill things, grab their loot and be able to have fun without much regarding the consequences. it's what makes it fun for them, not the immersive and acting aspect of the game.

other than that I don't have much to add other than the advice I've given so far. good luck!

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-03-01, 11:04 AM
I would have him steal something quick and dirty from Marvel Heroic Roleplaying: Distinctions. A Distinction is something that's a unique aspect of the character. It can be brought in to help your roll, or brought in to hinder your roll. Now, you don't need to bring it mechanically into the game, but the concept of a Distinction can still help plenty.

For instance...

Captain America has three Distinctions:

Moral Compass: it helps him when his values are challenged, when his conviction is questioned. It gets in the way when the only way ahead is morally murky.

Resolute Tactician: it helps him when he's leading fellow heroes strategically in a situation. It gets in the way when trying to puzzle out the most advantageous way forward just wastes time or makes you predictable.

Sentinel of Liberty: it helps him when he's defending the country and ideals that he loves. It gets in the way when those ideals are threatened by the mission he's on, which will result in something good overall.

With those alone, you can easily help someone to start playing their character as someone who's not just one-dimensional. The rest can build on that.

ArcturusV
2013-03-01, 11:18 AM
Well Drakefall, the key question there for him to consider is Why. You have two sets of Why ideally. One is already determined, the Out of Character Why, which ideally should be "Because I wanna have some fun with the guys around the table". That's why you get stuff done IC, and that should never be forgotten. It's a big trap that some people get into when they start roleplaying, thinking they're doing good by asserting a character personality that runs contrary to the needs of the game.

The other Why is why your character is doing something. The easy answer in Dark Heresy being "Because my Inquisitor passed down orders through a few intermediaries that told me to", of course. But I'm talking about in a more refined sense. His assassin wants to sneak across rooftops to the target. Why? Well maybe because that's how his skills work most optimally. Why? Because that was part of his Death Cult Traditions. Why? Because they were raised on some arboreal world where the people never touched the ground and hunted the dangerous death beasts from the canopies.

The more you ask Why, and keep it in the context of the OOC Why, the more Roleplaying you are actually doing. Just don't lose sight of that OOCness.