[3.5] Experienced player among newbies

[Silus]

So one of my supervisors at work has invited me to a 3.5 D&D session next weekend, and I still don't have a character. I am (and hopefully the DM as well) the only one with any tabletop experience (only a handful of years, but still).

So my biggest concern is how do I not mess things up for the other players? Last thing I wanna do is stomp in with an accidentally OP character compared to the other players optimization level or show anyone up.

Since I've never been the overqualified one at a table, what are some things I should look out for, and are there any classes I should outright avoid?

Three characters I was planning:
1. Swashbuckler/Scout => Dervish
2. Paladin (see if I can swing for LN) => Grey Guard
3. Warlock => Binder => Hellfire Warlock

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The hellfire warlock build would probably be too much damage output for a new group, but the dervish and grey guard builds should be fine as long as you don't end up with a dozen attacks with the dervish.

I would check with the party, though, and see what they want to make, and base your decision on that--if there's a barbarian or heavy-armor fighter in the party go with the dervish, if there's a rogue or light-armor fighter in the party go with the grey guard, stuff like that--so you can avoid stepping on toes.

[Phelix-Mu]

Three characters I was planning:
1. Swashbuckler/Scout => Dervish
2. Paladin (see if I can swing for LN) => Grey Guard
3. Warlock => Binder => Hellfire Warlock

The first two options sound very manageable. Naberius, on the other hand, is a pretty nifty trick for Hellfire Warlock, and makes the whole build operate with dramatically greater efficiency. But warlock is not high tier, so with some restraint even this may be manageable.

My approach to working with less-experienced players (which I do a lot), is to pick an inherently weak/flawed base class/character build and then tweak up the optimization of that class as the campaign progresses and I get a better handle on group dynamic. Leading with story over build can help keep this engaging, especially early on.

The big faux pas here would be opening with an optimized wiz->incantatrix or big bad druid and make the rest of the characters look like backseat drivers in your personal campaign. Try to fill some discrete role in the party and focus on enjoyable, engaging role play to bring some fun to the table. With enough fun, people won't notice or won't care half so much that you have better system mastery/more experience or whatever.

Also, offer other players help with feat suggestions (especially as the game goes on) and equipment selection (a particularly daunting task for new players, since it's a lot of reading across many books and one doesn't want to waste resources).

[Darrin]

Since I've never been the overqualified one at a table, what are some things I should look out for, and are there any classes I should outright avoid?


Avoid anything in Tier 1, unless you and the DM want a "Mentor" character that can save the PCs from a TPK in a pinch, in which case just go Core Druidzilla.



Three characters I was planning:
1. Swashbuckler/Scout => Dervish
2. Paladin (see if I can swing for LN) => Grey Guard


These are both not very OP, so you'd probably be fine with either of these.



3. Warlock => Binder => Hellfire Warlock

Hmm. Warlock is a great support character for low- to mid-levels. I'd back off on the Hellfire thing and I'd only go that route if the rest of the group picked up on optimization very quickly. Then you could ditch the training wheels and go the whole "crack the planet in half" route. Otherwise, stick to just straight-up Warlock 20, or dip cleric and go into Eldritch Disciple.

Also very good support characters that can really help other PCs shine:

Bard.
Factotum.
Dragonfire Adept.

[Telonius]

So one of my supervisors at work

Honestly, this raises more red flags for me than "the DM's just invited his girlfriend to play." Proceed very carefully.

[Chaosvii7]

If I were in your shoes, I would probably help them make their characters equally OP. It will earn you their undying respect by showing them your mad system skills. But I would only do that because not only am I a nice guy, but all the DMs I know are relentless and expect us to be in turn.

If your DM isn't as paranoid, then I suggest you simply make sure you're not in the spotlight over all the other members, even if you are comfortably OP. Though 3.5 is definitely a bit of a willy-waving contest at times, the game still promotes a story-over-stats gameplay if you can manage it. You don't necessarily have to play backseat or passively though. It's often hard to make the games about everyone when either EVERYONE IS A BROKEN CHARACTER or THERE IS ONLY ONE BROKEN CHARACTER, I will admit.

As far as restrictions go, you should probably steer away from things that aren't in PHB/PHII or any of the Complete books. Those books aren't horrifically unbalanced but still provide a greater amount of content. Some things are iffy, but it really takes a knowledge of all 100-something(Core + Eberron + Faerun) books to break something in a notable and meaningful way.

Not that all the other source material is crap, but I personally don't like having to pull feats and prestige classes seemingly out of my butt when I'm the most experienced 3.5 player at a table. It makes me looka bit too show-offy.

The only book I would definitely steer away from is Tome of Battle(nobody I know seems to like that book - I don't mind it at all), and the token class to avoid would definitely be Factotum("What's that? I'm in a party full of beginners? Why not save myself the trouble of relying on them to fulfill every party role and DO THEM MYSELF?").

The rest of my advice probably just loops back to the "be a team player" stuff I said earlier.

[Silus]

Honestly, this raises more red flags for me than "the DM's just invited his girlfriend to play." Proceed very carefully.

Well actually some of the guys at the attached cafe got started with it, invited my supervisor (less supervisor and more...one-half-step-higher-than-me-jobwise), and since she knew I did tabletop, asked if I wanted to join.

Since I've only been doing Pathfinder Society, I jumped at the chance. They were gonna have me DM at one point if the current DM didn't pan out (which I'm cool with).

Edit: So basically, play the Obi-Wan to a party of Luke Skywalkers until they get the hang of things + support over DPS?

I think I can work with this. See if I can somehow come up with some sort of support caster. Maybe an Enchantment Wizard/Sorcerer or something so I can be all "You get a Bull's Strength! You get a Bull's Strength! EVERYONE GETS A BULL'S STRENGTH!".


I would check with the party, though, and see what they want to make, and base your decision on that--if there's a barbarian or heavy-armor fighter in the party go with the dervish, if there's a rogue or light-armor fighter in the party go with the grey guard, stuff like that--so you can avoid stepping on toes.

This should't be very hard. I'm a pretty versatile player, though I never got the hang of things like Clerics, so I really hope someone decides to play a healer >.> My "supervisor" expressed interest in playing a Druid, so at least we have that base covered.

[andromax]

Honestly build whatever you like and throttle your power accordingly.
You could have a well thought out StP Erudite and not steal the thunder if you only used your 'power' sparingly and saved it for critical moments when other players can't do anything, and or emergencies. Think Gandalf from LotR. He was a wizard rolling with rogues and fighters and who did most of the work? He was just there as a guaranteed to work plan B.

You don't have to use your most powerful tricks and abilities every turn, nor do you have to volunteer to cast fly or teleport on the group to circumvent every obstacle.

[GreenETC]

Depending on party make-up, I'd say a party-focused Wizard or Bard is good so that you can make everyone feel good. BFC and Buffing either through spells or IC is always good for making sure you step on no toes and actually contribute meaningfully, so long as you keep your spells pretty mundane. Think Grease instead of Polymorph.