PC caster build suggestion for low level campaign

[Nornalhorst]

Lurker here that recently joined the forums.

I joined a D&D 3.5 campaign with my friends, unfortunately for me the campaign has already been running for more than 4 months and the DM has ruled that any new PCs can only be lvl 1 (not taking into account ECL). So I'm going to be far behind everyone else in levels.

I played only very little so far as a lvl 1 cleric human, unfortunately I felt like I couldn't contribute at all being too weak. So I asked the DM about the situation and he said he'll allow me to create a new character. I can use anything from any book as long as its nothing homebrewed, but I have to get it approved first by him and I'll still have to start out lvl 1 (still not taking into account ECL).

So any suggestions? Mainly I wanted to be a caster since there is only 1 caster, a wizard, in the party so far.

One idea I had was to be a lvl 1 Cleric Lich, the backstory being I was a powerful lich who has been forced down to this low level, and had everything taken from him by another more powerful foe who couldn't quite find his phylactery to outright destroy him completely so chose the next best thing. How does this sound, what kind of build for a cleric would you recommend? I'm not sure if the DM will buy it though:smallbiggrin:.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What level is the rest of the party? I'd say play something with racial HD and racial spellcasting. A Steel Dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a) could work out, especially with Loredrake. Dragons of Faerun puts their LA at +2/+3/+4/+4. A Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) could be useful, especially if you go with a Cha-to-everything build. A Lammasu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lammasu.htm) or even better yet, a Tauric Human+Lammasu (+1 HD, only a +3 LA), would be able to contribute considerably to the party, especially since a level of Cleric would give you even more domains.

[Psyren]

Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) Telepath 1 with Practiced Manifester. You are level 1, but have all the power of a level 9 Psion; You are also extremely hard to kill and can fool the entire party into thinking you're an ordinary human by making yourself look like one and holding all your items with telekinesis.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) Telepath 1 with Practiced Manifester. You are level 1, but have all the power of a level 9 Psion; You are also extremely hard to kill and can fool the entire party into thinking you're an ordinary human by making yourself look like one and holding all your items with telekinesis.

That would be level 5 Psion, Unbodied only get 4th level manifesting despite being ECL 8, unless there's some trick I'm not aware of.

[Gavinfoxx]

Steel or Tome Dragon...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9064.0

[Psyren]

That would be level 5 Psion, Unbodied only get 4th level manifesting despite being ECL 8, unless there's some trick I'm not aware of.

Practiced Manifester will give you ML 9, and since you can use that to augment your level 1 powers all the way up, you'll be just as powerful as a Psion 9. (For instance, the Unbodied I mentioned above can fire off 9d10 Mind Thrusts, just like a Telepath 9. If it picks up EK: Astral Construct, it can create Astral Construct Vs - again, just like a Telepath 9.)

EDIT: Bah, just realized it says "hit dice" rather than "character level." It should really count LA...

[Nornalhorst]

What level is the rest of the party? I'd say play something with racial HD and racial spellcasting. A Steel Dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a) could work out, especially with Loredrake. Dragons of Faerun puts their LA at +2/+3/+4/+4. A Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) could be useful, especially if you go with a Cha-to-everything build. A Lammasu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lammasu.htm) or even better yet, a Tauric Human+Lammasu (+1 HD, only a +3 LA), would be able to contribute considerably to the party, especially since a level of Cleric would give you even more domains.

Nice, very nice, I was wondering does a lvl 1 Lammasu cast spells as a lvl 7 Cleric, the description seems to be saying so?

What would be a powerful build for a cleric in a low level campaign?

Also what do you think of my low-level Lich idea in the OP?

[Gavinfoxx]

Also what do you think of my low-level Lich idea in the OP?

Don't like it at all. Lich does nothing to improve your casting capability and spell access. You want casting, hit dice, and spell access, primarily.

[Nornalhorst]

Don't like it at all. Lich does nothing to improve your casting capability and spell access. You want casting, hit dice, and spell access, primarily.

True, true, I'll just leave that for a higher level campaign. Though liches do have some powerful special abilities.

[Gavinfoxx]

True, true, I'll just leave that for a higher level campaign. Though liches do have some powerful special abilities.

We've been telling you various races with integrated casting, which should help. Just consider one of those.

[Nornalhorst]

We've been telling you various races with integrated casting, which should help. Just consider one of those.

I'm really liking the Lammasu and the Unbodied, not sure about the dragon though but they do seem good.

[MukkTB]

You're not going to contribute significantly if you are severely outleveled. the issue here is one of survival. A stray blast or confused monster could chomp you in half. You might be able to do something with consumables if the other players are willing to throw a few gold at you.

If I was in your situation I'd be mad. But going past that I'd give up the need to be a mover or a shaker and just roll up a comedy relief character. Nothing you can do will be worse than a lvl 1 character legitimately trying to contribute when severely outleveled.

[Nornalhorst]

You're not going to contribute significantly if you are severely outleveled. the issue here is one of survival. A stray blast or confused monster could chomp you in half. You might be able to do something with consumables if the other players are willing to throw a few gold at you.

If I was in your situation I'd be mad. But going past that I'd give up the need to be a mover or a shaker and just roll up a comedy relief character. Nothing you can do will be worse than a lvl 1 character legitimately trying to contribute when severely outleveled.

Yeah I know what you mean, when I played my lvl 1 cleric human I ended up going up against a single construct, the dice also hated me rolled alot of single digits that night including an unusual amount of nat 1s so couldn't hide, find higher ground, or even cast a single spell, so one hit KO...:smallannoyed: the only thing that saved me was one of its attacks missing.

[Vaz]

A Lammasu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lammasu.htm) or even better yet, a Tauric Human+Lammasu (+1 HD, only a +3 LA), would be able to contribute considerably to the party, especially since a level of Cleric would give you even more domains.

A Tauric adds the Base Humanoids to the Base Creatures, so a Human/Lammasu Tauric would become a 7HD+3LA Character with a single class level (aka, ECL 11).

Tauric Lammasu gives you 7th level Cleric Casting; it allows you Prestige Class entry as a 1st level, courtesy of the RHD, but it's not exactly early entry, as you are still 3 levels behind a full caster, and they have the class features and Domain abilities. Neither do you have a spellcasting class, just the ability to cast spells as a cleric, and taking a cleric just allows you Cleric 1 Casting/Cleric 7 casting, but only the Cleric 1 casting can be progressed.

If you are doing a 1 shot adventure with no levelling involved at ECL11, then as a gish, it's fairly decent. Otherwise... Nope.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Tauric adds the Base Humanoids to the Base Creatures, so a Human/Lammasu Tauric would become a 7HD+3LA Character with a single class level (aka, ECL 11).

Tauric Lammasu gives you 7th level Cleric Casting; it allows you Prestige Class entry as a 1st level, courtesy of the RHD, but it's not exactly early entry, as you are still 3 levels behind a full caster, and they have the class features and Domain abilities. Neither do you have a spellcasting class, just the ability to cast spells as a cleric, and taking a cleric just allows you Cleric 1 Casting/Cleric 7 casting, but only the Cleric 1 casting can be progressed.

If you are doing a 1 shot adventure with no levelling involved at ECL11, then as a gish, it's fairly decent. Otherwise... Nope.

I meant Tauric adds +1 HD to what a Lammasu already gets, but replaces the +5 LA with a +3 LA. The base humanoid in a tauric creature always adds at least one HD to the final result.

Tauric Lammasu is a perfect candidate for Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin), assuming you can carry over some benefits of their physique (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut) (bottom of the page). You still want at least one (Cloistered) Cleric level to get two more domains and Turn Undead.

[Seer_of_Heart]

You could make a white dragonspawn loredrake dragonwrought kobold(optional spellhoarding? there is some template that converts sorcerer casting to wizard casting for dragons). For a +3 to sorcerer casting, at level 6 you can pick up another +1 sorcerer level for free. At level 6 you're getting 5th level spells.

[Juntao112]

Pixie Warlock.

[Psyren]

Since you're outleveled class-wise, pick a race with powerful defensive abilities instead. Pixie and Unbodied are great choices.

On Unbodied, check with your DM if Practiced Manifester will work with the Level Adjustment - if so, it's a clear winner. If not, your options are open.

Pixielock is a nice skillmonkey but you won't be amazing in combat by any stretch.

[Nornalhorst]

I meant Tauric adds +1 HD to what a Lammasu already gets, but replaces the +5 LA with a +3 LA. The base humanoid in a tauric creature always adds at least one HD to the final result.

Tauric Lammasu is a perfect candidate for Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin), assuming you can carry over some benefits of their physique (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut) (bottom of the page). You still want at least one (Cloistered) Cleric level to get two more domains and Turn Undead.

Are you telling me I can reduce level adjustment by making a tauric creature? If so I have some good ideas for this:smallbiggrin:.

What if I used a hydra for the base?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Are you telling me I can reduce level adjustment by making a tauric creature? If so I have some good ideas for this:smallbiggrin:.

What if I used a hydra for the base?

Tauric is limited to small or medium base humanoids, and medium or large base creatures.

Edit: You can, however, use a Dungeonbred version of a normally huge animal, vermin, or magical beast for a Tauric creature. You'll still only have one torso/head, but you would get the Hydra's fast healing.

[Nornalhorst]

Tauric is limited to small or medium base humanoids, and medium or large base creatures.

Edit: You can, however, use a Dungeonbred version of a normally huge animal, vermin, or magical beast for a Tauric creature. You'll still only have one torso/head, but you would get the Hydra's fast healing.

only one head?

Any other good ideas for a tauric base?

I think I'll probably end up being an unbodied or lammasu tauric

[Vaz]

The base creature's lose their heads, so no 30 headed breath attacks. it also requires Large or Medium creature base.

If you used a Dungeonbred 5 Headed Hydra as the base, you'd be a large 5+Humanoid HD+3LA Monster, with Fast Healing 15, Darkvision 60ft, Low Light Vision, Scent, Ability Scores of Str (+6), Dex (+2), Con (+10) (Int/Wis/Cha are humanoid based).

You wouldn't actually have any attacks, apart from Unarmed Strikes using your Monstrous Humanoid HD (3/4 BAB, means BAB 3+, your Strength makes up for that). For a humanoid, one with benefits to Mental and penalties to Physical is a must; Grey Elf, say. Considering a 5Headed Hydra (anything more is just only adding on stat boosts in exchange for Monstrous Humanoid HD. 5HD is usually a no-no if you're going for Caster optimization though.

However, a Lammasu at Level 10 provides the benefits of a Barbarian (with Stats that are likely higher), Pounce and Rake (something Barbarians' frequently consider a must have), 2 Natural claw attacks, and a Weapon attack, fly, and Cleric 7th Spellcasting with a 3/4 BAB.

If your DM isn't that experienced, and your parties casters think that Magic Missile and Fireball are the ways to win battles, I'd advise not taking it, you'll be treading on everyone's toes, except the Trap-activator-Detector.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The base creature's lose their heads, so no 30 headed breath attacks. it also requires Large or Medium creature base.

If you used a Dungeonbred 5 Headed Hydra as the base, you'd be a large 5+Humanoid HD+3LA Monster, with Fast Healing 15, Darkvision 60ft, Low Light Vision, Scent, Ability Scores of Str (+6), Dex (+2), Con (+10) (Int/Wis/Cha are humanoid based).

You wouldn't actually have any attacks, apart from Unarmed Strikes using your Monstrous Humanoid HD (3/4 BAB, means BAB 3+, your Strength makes up for that). For a humanoid, one with benefits to Mental and penalties to Physical is a must; Grey Elf, say. Considering a 5Headed Hydra (anything more is just only adding on stat boosts in exchange for Monstrous Humanoid HD. 5HD is usually a no-no if you're going for Caster optimization though.

However, a Lammasu at Level 10 provides the benefits of a Barbarian (with Stats that are likely higher), Pounce and Rake (something Barbarians' frequently consider a must have), 2 Natural claw attacks, and a Weapon attack, fly, and Cleric 7th Spellcasting with a 3/4 BAB.

If your DM isn't that experienced, and your parties casters think that Magic Missile and Fireball are the ways to win battles, I'd advise not taking it, you'll be treading on everyone's toes, except the Trap-activator-Detector.

Don't forget that Dungeonbred applies the reverse of the ability adjustments for a size change (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases), but adds +4 Str and Con afterward. A 5-headed Dungeonbread Hydra on a Tauric creature would give Str +2, Dex +4, Con +10, and +3 natural armor. You'd still get Combat Reflexes for free, as well as Endurance from Dungeonbred. With that Con score and movement speed, I'd go with the Quick trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick).

The Lammasu could take the Summon Elemental reserve feat and Nodwick all the traps, thus making the entire party obsolete!