Is this a bad idea?

[gurgleflep]

I've got an idea thought up to have a coven of troll vampires laid away inside of a castle. Trolls can regenerate limbs if they're chopped off (but not burnt) and the limbs can spawn an entire troll. The whole lot would be essentially the same chap duplicated to some crazy number.

Is this an overly strong idea, or could I expand upon it to make it even more of a deadly experience?

[Acanous]

Troll regeneration doesn't work that way. They regenerate from *The largest piece of Troll*, meaning you would get an unused stump of limb, while the trollpire would just regrow his arm.

[gurgleflep]

Troll regeneration doesn't work that way. They regenerate from *The largest piece of Troll*, meaning you would get an unused stump of limb, while the trollpire would just regrow his arm.

That stinks :smallfrown: Well, there goes that idea.
Thank you.

[Flickerdart]

Regeneration requires a Constitution score, which a vampire does not have.

[TaiLiu]

Regeneration requires a Constitution score, which a vampire does not have.

Does it? :smallconfused:

The Atropal has Regeneration and lacks a Constitution score. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal)

[Starbuck_II]

Does it? :smallconfused:

The Atropal has Regeneration and lacks a Constitution score. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal)

They changed the rules between 3.0 and 3.5.
In 3.5, you need Con to have regeneration.
In 3.0, they didn't care if you had Con.

So to update Epic level Handbook, you need to remove Atropals regeneration.

[Asrrin]

Forgive my ignorance, but what happens if you bisect a troll exactly in half?

[mcv]

That stinks :smallfrown: Well, there goes that idea.
Thank you.

There's nothing wrong with making a new kind of troll that does work like that. It would definitely be an interesting scenario.

I can imagine the PCs' growing horror as they watch a chopped-off arm slowly growing a new torso.

[Xenogears]

They changed the rules between 3.0 and 3.5.
In 3.5, you need Con to have regeneration.
In 3.0, they didn't care if you had Con.

So to update Epic level Handbook, you need to remove Atropals regeneration.

Or remember that an Atropal is the undead fetus of a GOD and therefor doesn't care about the rules? My personal opinion on the matter is that it fits them perfectly.

[Arbane]

Forgive my ignorance, but what happens if you bisect a troll exactly in half?

Flip a coin?

[Zubrowka74]

There's nothing wrong with making a new kind of troll that does work like that. It would definitely be an interesting scenario.

I can imagine the PCs' growing horror as they watch a chopped-off arm slowly growing a new torso.

Used to work like this. 1E, 2E ? Trolls could also lob their head at the enemy line and then use their bite attack.

[Amnestic]

Forgive my ignorance, but what happens if you bisect a troll exactly in half?

If a troll only regenerates from the largest part and there is no "largest" part, I guess it wouldn't regenerate at all?

[Flickerdart]

Forgive my ignorance, but what happens if you bisect a troll exactly in half?
All trolls contain an odd number of quarks, making this an impossible event.

[Renen]

What if you meat grinder the troll into a VERY fine paste?

[Flickerdart]

What if you meat grinder the troll into a VERY fine paste?
Then the largest contiguous blob regenerates into the troll.

[Phelix-Mu]

Just create a new brand of troll...Starfish Troll or something. As usual, some mildly demented wizard looked at the troll stats and said "Really? IS THAT THE BEST YOU CAN DO?" He started work on the starfish troll right away.

After some experimentation, a troll was developed that could be broken into parts, and each part (above a certain size, let's say each part that is at least as big as a small object) grows into a new troll.

Now, we can just expand this to add on twisted as necessary. Don't starfish trolls need hive mind? I think that might be nice. Or maybe they need some constrict ability and grapple bonus, in the vein of an actual starfish.

Now, if we want to get super awesome, lets make scrags with hydraulic muscles, in the manner of starfish. A large or larger creature with a strength proportional to a starfish would be sickeningly strong. And while hydraulic muscles probably wouldn't work on a bipedal critter...well, it's MAGIC, kiddies.

Now, now I think we are getting close to "a bad idea"....mwahahaha.

[gurgleflep]

Just create a new brand of troll...Starfish Troll or something. As usual, some mildly demented wizard looked at the troll stats and said "Really? IS THAT THE BEST YOU CAN DO?" He started work on the starfish troll right away.

After some experimentation, a troll was developed that could be broken into parts, and each part (above a certain size, let's say each part that is at least as big as a small object) grows into a new troll.

Now, we can just expand this to add on twisted as necessary. Don't starfish trolls need hive mind? I think that might be nice. Or maybe they need some constrict ability and grapple bonus, in the vein of an actual starfish.

Now, if we want to get super awesome, lets make scrags with hydraulic muscles, in the manner of starfish. A large or larger creature with a strength proportional to a starfish would be sickeningly strong. And while hydraulic muscles probably wouldn't work on a bipedal critter...well, it's MAGIC, kiddies.

Now, now I think we are getting close to "a bad idea"....mwahahaha.

Now THAT is an epic idea!
Probably not a good thing for the people in the party, but it'll be fun for me as a DM.

[ksbsnowowl]

I've got an idea thought up to have a coven of troll vampires laid away inside of a castle. Trolls can regenerate limbs if they're chopped off (but not burnt) and the limbs can spawn an entire troll. The whole lot would be essentially the same chap duplicated to some crazy number.

Is this an overly strong idea, or could I expand upon it to make it even more of a deadly experience?

Although I can't help you with three duplicates of the same troll, I do have an idea that may allow you to get a troll-type creature that gets a similar feel to the vampires you were shooting for.

Make a Phantom Troll. Phantom is a template from MM5 that can be applied to any corporeal creature, and allows them to go incorporeal or corporeal as often as they want, as a swift action. And they can still strike corporeal foes while they are incorporeal. It doesn't change type, so wouldn't end Regeneration.

[Alienist]

Chopping the body part off yourself and storing it somewhere, makes you come back from death once, no matter what the PCs do.*

Doing it a thousand times means they need to kill you a thousand times.

:D

[Flickerdart]

Chopping the body part off yourself and storing it somewhere, makes you come back from death once, no matter what the PCs do.*

Doing it a thousand times means they need to kill you a thousand times.

:D
"Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached."

If you chop off a body part, the body part dies. It doesn't keep being a valid thing to regenerate out of.

[gurgleflep]

Although I can't help you with three duplicates of the same troll, I do have an idea that may allow you to get a troll-type creature that gets a similar feel to the vampires you were shooting for.

Make a Phantom Troll. Phantom is a template from MM5 that can be applied to any corporeal creature, and allows them to go incorporeal or corporeal as often as they want, as a swift action. And they can still strike corporeal foes while they are incorporeal. It doesn't change type, so wouldn't end Regeneration.

How would one go about attacking it while it's incorporeal? Special made weapons?


Chopping the body part off yourself and storing it somewhere, makes you come back from death once, no matter what the PCs do.*

Doing it a thousand times means they need to kill you a thousand times.

:D

This is a good idea. It would be funny to watch too!
"Great, we killed that one!" *door rattles*
"What's that?" *door bursts open* "NOT ANOTHER ONE!!"
~One eternity later~
"WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM?!"

[TuggyNE]

How would one go about attacking it while it's incorporeal? Special made weapons?

Yes, and other things (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype).

[Mnemnosyne]

"Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached."

If you chop off a body part, the body part dies. It doesn't keep being a valid thing to regenerate out of.
It doesn't say how long it takes them to die, though. This might still be a valid short term tactic. In second edition, the separated body parts would take 24 hours to die; if we retain the same time limit on the severed body parts, since to my knowledge there is no specific time limit given in 3.5, then a troll could indeed do this before going into battle, or even just every day.

Even if we assume the body parts die much faster, they presumably stay alive for a few minutes. The troll may very well chop off its pinky or something only moments before charging the adventurers. If they kill him with fire within the next few minutes, unless they find the pinky he chopped off, he still regenerates from it.

[Devils_Advocate]

There's nothing wrong with making a new kind of troll that does work like that.
Well, if you do introduce a horde of rapidly reproducing monsters like that, they should be new in-universe too, e.g. recently invented by a mad archmage or something as in Phelix-Mu's scenario, to explain why they haven't already spread throughout the entire land, killing everyone.

Also, that way they present a clear threat that the PCs need to deal with instead of just running away from (i.e. that they'll spread throughout the entire land, killing everyone).


Forgive my ignorance, but what happens if you bisect a troll exactly in half?
!!! (http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2663)

[gurgleflep]

Also, that way they present a clear threat that the PCs need to deal with instead of just running away from (i.e. that they'll spread throughout the entire land, killing everyone).[/URL]

Something along the lines of an apocalypse, right? They need to find a way to stop it in as quick a way as possible.

I like your idea, by the way. :smallwink:

[Andezzar]

Something along the lines of an apocalypse, right? They need to find a way to stop it in as quick a way as possible.
Make sure they don't team up with the wraiths. They're just bidng their time for their apocalypse.

[Flickerdart]

If they kill him with fire within the next few minutes, unless they find the pinky he chopped off, he still regenerates from it.
No he doesn't - fire and acid damage bypasses regeneration. Sequestering a body part shortly before battle only works if the enemy's tactic is "chop you up into little pieces and keep chopping every time you regenerate to keep you down".

[Bakkan]

All trolls contain an odd number of quarks, making this an impossible event.

Actually, to avoid the PCs simply cutting the troll into 3, 5, or more equal parts, you need every troll to contain a prime number of quarks (though this still doesn't handle the case when the PCs separate each quark from all the rest).

[The Viscount]

Actually, to avoid the PCs simply cutting the troll into 3, 5, or more equal parts, you need every troll to contain a prime number of quarks (though this still doesn't handle the case when the PCs separate each quark from all the rest).

There's definitely more strange quarks than charm in a troll! *rimshot

[TuggyNE]

Actually, to avoid the PCs simply cutting the troll into 3, 5, or more equal parts, you need every troll to contain a prime number of quarks (though this still doesn't handle the case when the PCs separate each quark from all the rest).

If someone can't figure out how to parlay this into a full asymmetrical cryptosystem, I'll be sad.