[3.5/PF] Extra Damage and Critical Hits

[Twilightwyrm]

So we're all aware that many forms of extra damage do not get multiplied on a critical hit. Sneak Attack damage, Skirmish damage, damage from Flaming, Frost, or Holy weapons (their burst variations nonwithstanding) and the like are all examples of such damage. However, I was always under the impression that this was only the case when either a general rule, or a rule in the ability's own description, specifically states that it cannot. But I have, recently, ran into some, shall we say, disagreement, on this issue. This leads me to wonder if there is perhaps some rule I have missed, or whether, as I suspect, sources of damage are, as I suspected, only reduced on critical hits when specifically states to be. I know that, among other things, this would be of particular interest both to bards with Dragonfire Inspiration, as well as martial adapts, where strikes are specifically noted as not having their extra damage multiplied on a crit, but have no such exemption for boosts, counters, or in rare cases, stances. Finally, if it is the case that these are not so limited, I'd also be interested in other good sources of damage that are also multiplied on a critical hit.

Note: I did not mention weapon-like spells, as they are specifically noted to threaten critical hits.

[Halae]

As far as it goes, there's two things that generally aren't multiplied on a crit:

1. Precision damage, which is what you get from skirmish and sneak attack
2. Added energy damage to an attack, such as the flaming enchantment or dragonfire inspiration

Just about everything else can crit if it involves an attack roll. it's why Eldritch blast works for it - theoretically, shivering touch can actually critical hit, doing 6d6 dexterity damage rather than 3d6.

Also, since you pointed out pathfinder, take a look at the pathfinder paladin's new and improved smite evil ability. it's beyond awesome now, and the extra damage it does is multiplied by critical hits as well.

[Qc Storm]

I was under the impression that no damage dice over the weapon's regular dice would multiply.

Was I wrong?

[Curmudgeon]

3.5 rule:
Multiplying Damage

Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied. So sneak attack dice won't be multiplied, but the non-dice sneak attack bonus from Craven will be multiplied.

[Twilightwyrm]

2. Added energy damage to an attack, such as the flaming enchantment or dragonfire inspiration


See, this is where I have some confusion. Nothing in the description of Dragonfire Inspiration says that the extra damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, and further, the normal damage bonus from Inspire Courage, to the best of my knowledge, is. So why, exactly, wouldn't it be multiplied?



3.5 rule:


Multiplying Damage
Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.

So sneak attack dice won't be multiplied, but the non-dice sneak attack bonus from Craven will be multiplied.

Interesting. Might I ask were this rule is referenced?

[TuggyNE]

See, this is where I have some confusion. Nothing in the description of Dragonfire Inspiration says that the extra damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, and further, the normal damage bonus from Inspire Courage, to the best of my knowledge, is. So why, exactly, wouldn't it be multiplied?

Because it's damage dice, and that in itself is enough to disqualify it. Flat bonuses to damage work, damage dice don't.


Interesting. Might I ask were this rule is referenced?

Actions In Combat: Critical Hits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits).

[Firest Kathon]

See, this is where I have some confusion. Nothing in the description of Dragonfire Inspiration says that the extra damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, and further, the normal damage bonus from Inspire Courage, to the best of my knowledge, is. So why, exactly, wouldn't it be multiplied?

As per the rule you quoted, extra damage dice are never multiplied.


Interesting. Might I ask were this rule is referenced?

Source for D&D 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#multiplyingDamage)
Source for Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Multiplying-Damage)

[Twilightwyrm]

Alright, thanks everyone for the information.