(3.5) PC's & Stealth, DM advice

[PurpleSocks]

Hi, I'm currently planning a session for my PC's where they will be required to sneak in to an established and well defended orc raiders camp, kill the warchief and sneak out with minimal casualties.

Just asking for any advice as my PC's have a tendency to kill everything that moves, loudly, whilst setting of every trap in existance, and while I wan't to punish them for sucking at stealth I'd like to avoid any character deaths if possible.

My party consists of a level 7 druid, 7 transmuter, 7 scout and a 6 goliath barbarian. Oh and in the previous session they killed their first dragon, and may be coming off a we can kill anything high.

[mattie_p]

One does not simply sneak into an orc warcamp. [/obligatory]

[Feralventas]

1) Was the dragon well put together and capable of casting and played to minimize its own risk in the fight? If not, they may not quite understand the threat they could have had to deal with and therefore be not unreasonably confident. Maybe point out how much more dangerous it could have been.

2) If you want to enforce stealth, make a direct confrontation a non-option.
-Armed patrols around the area, level 5 barbarians with Leap Attack and Power Attack. Level 5 Rangers with Deady-Eye, Point-Blank and Precise Shot.
-Guards on the wall of the compound instead have Far Shot and non-magical lenses to mitigate light-blindness if the party attacks in daylight, good cover from their positions, 50% miss chance for it, if the party dares attack an orc camp at night.
-Both patrols and Guards have sounding-horns to call for backup and raise alarm and do so at the first sure sign of incursion.

[PurpleSocks]

1) Was the dragon well put together and capable of casting and played to minimize its own risk in the fight? If not, they may not quite understand the threat they could have had to deal with and therefore be not unreasonably confident. Maybe point out how much more dangerous it could have been.

2) If you want to enforce stealth, make a direct confrontation a non-option.
-Armed patrols around the area, level 5 barbarians with Leap Attack and Power Attack. Level 5 Rangers with Deady-Eye, Point-Blank and Precise Shot.
-Guards on the wall of the compound instead have Far Shot and non-magical lenses to mitigate light-blindness if the party attacks in daylight, good cover from their positions, 50% miss chance for it, if the party dares attack an orc camp at night.
-Both patrols and Guards have sounding-horns to call for backup and raise alarm and do so at the first sure sign of incursion.

Yeah, but the party caster got lucky with her dispel magic & spell penetration rolls and took out all of its buffs, in those two rolls the PC's went from being dragon food to dragon slayers before it had a chance to get out itself out of combat and flee.

I like the compound guards but I would like to make it at least possible for the PC's to survive should they blow a move silently check and alert the entire camp.

[Curmudgeon]

Hi, I'm currently planning a session for my PC's where they will be required to sneak in to an established and well defended orc raiders camp, kill the warchief and sneak out with minimal casualties.
How are you going to establish this requirement? If the job is simply to kill the warchief, let them go about it any way they want.

Just asking for any advice as my PC's have a tendency to kill everything that moves, loudly, whilst setting of every trap in existance, and while I wan't to punish them for sucking at stealth I'd like to avoid any character deaths if possible. It doesn't look like stealth would be their preferred approach, given that only the Scout likely has any relevant knack for that. If they're loud, avoiding PC deaths doesn't seem likely. This party is at a high enough level to do a Reincarnate if the Druid survives (and with Wild Shape to turn into a flying creature, that's pretty likely), and that seems like the right sort of experience for them to learn the value of stealth.

[drax75]

How are you going to establish this requirement? If the job is simply to kill the warchief, let them go about it any way they want.
It doesn't look like stealth would be their preferred approach, given that only the Scout likely has any relevant knack for that. If they're loud, avoiding PC deaths doesn't seem likely. This party is at a high enough level to do a Reincarnate if the Druid survives (and with Wild Shape to turn into a flying creature, that's pretty likely), and that seems like the right sort of experience for them to learn the value of stealth.

I agree, let them die if they try to take it head on. its a great life lesson "this is why you stealth sometimes".

This is why i preface all of my games with "If it looks to hard for you to beat and you think your going to die, you are likely correct and should run. Or you can die and make a new character." My players get sick of my saying this art the start of all of my games, but i just now the one time they screw up and die i am going to hear "this is unfair" and i am going to laugh.

[Alzun]

I like the idea of the guards, especially when armed with warhorns. Maybe even throw in a few Ogre Mages with "Alarm" rigged up. Just make sure that the player know that stealth=victory. Sometimes, even though it can be difficult, the DM just has to let the characters die.