OOTS #876 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Scowling Dragon]

Oh.....Crap. This is intense.

[Theo333]

No "holy"? Now would be a good time...five minutes ago.

[Raineh Daze]

Snake tail!

Also, lesson to be learnt: never turn something someone helped you with against them if they have any cynicism in them.

[Ifni]

I thought that was going to be a moral challenge to Durkon for a moment (I helped you when it was actively disadvantageous to me) and then... yeah. Spell backdoors. Heh. Sneaky Malack.

[hamishspence]

Looks like Durkon's getting vamped.

[SaintRidley]

Well, Durkon getting munched on was a leading thought.

Poor guy. He did so well, too.

[Valley]

Interesting debate about free will in there somewhere.

Note to self - make sure to keep moving next time I explain my plans to the Hero.

[Brennan1214]

Probably missing the point, but that's a yes on the snake-thing thing.

EDIT: WOW. 1 post, 7 ninjas.

[Timeless Error]

Oh boy. This is not good news for Durkon, no it is not.

[MeanMrsMustard]

So we're agreed then? No legs?

[Paseo H]

...

So...Malack intended to vamp Durkon from the very beginning?

It's official.

I am impressed.

[ThePhantasm]

Oh no. This cliffhanger is killing me with the suspense even more than Belkar's vamp-out cliffhanger. Yikes! :smalleek:

[Zea mays]

Oh No Durkon! Durkon!:smalleek:

You're just teasing us again Giant, right?

Right?

[GnomeGninjas]

First Malack's alignment, and now his legs. With a few more comics any question we ever had about Malack will be answered.

[Raineh Daze]

No legs. Yuan-ti? :smallconfused:

This also severely curtails any possible aid, because Durkon won't heal from the damage as easily as Malack.

[Angelus-alvus]

So we're agreed then? No legs?

Yeah this page is the confirmation Malack is some kind of Naga.

[Samalpetey]

All I could think seeing that last panel was "poo" (though not in those words :smallwink:)

[oppyu]

Oh... oh damn. Poor Durkon :smalleek:

[ThePhantom]

Well, this looks bad. And it can only get worse, as somewhere Team Evil is on their way.

[rgrekejin]

Well, Malack has no legs, and Durkon is in pretty serious trouble. I'd suspect this is the end for him, but, as we've been shown in the past few pages, speculating on events at this point is completely pointless. There's always one more twist coming. I eagerly await whatever happens (hopefully) tomorrow!

[Caivs]

Woah...And I thought people were wrong when they said Malack wouldn't teach even a new friend a spell that could be used against him, but it seems he's a LOT more similar to Tarquin that we thought.

Also, I am quite thrilled by the fact ever since a few strips, the question we ask ourselves at the end of a strip is not ''Will something turn the tables'' but more ''Will something NOT turn the tables''. Does this one finally seal the outcome?

[Feddlefew]

Ooooh so he had coiled his entire tail under that robe. That.... Actually explains a lot. Like why his tail kept inexplicably changing lengths from comic to comic.

[Amidus Drexel]

Ooh, not looking good for Durkon. :smalleek:


No legs. Yuan-ti? :smallconfused:


Possible. It seems to fit him best, anyways. An abomination, maybe.

[Chantelune]

Woah, Durkon is being hacked something bad. :smalleek:

[MeanMrsMustard]

I'm wondering if there's any signifigance in the bite Malack's using. With Belkar, he chomped down on the head, but here, it looks like he's going for the "standard" neck bite.

[Arkanist]

I'm surprised he could pronounce the counterspell. Maybe he uses his forked tongue?

Also, I love how the Giant manages to answer questions in the most intense possible manner. Awesome.

[hamishspence]

Yeah this page is the confirmation Malack is some kind of Naga.
More likely a legless Yuan-ti half-blood or abomination- Naga's generally don't have arms, either.

[Samalpetey]

Only Belkar can save Durkon now! ... He's screwed. :smallbiggrin:

[Raineh Daze]

Yuan-ti would fit... but it runs afoul of the OGL/product ID thing, so the above stated naga is much more likely, since they're mythological entities.

Either way, he gets a bonus to grapples, I think.

[eras10]

I have no idea how Durkon gets out of this, and I also have no idea how OOTS makes it through the rest of the story without him.

Verbal-only priest spells? Sudden appearance of Roy? Can Durkon flop his body in such a way as to present his holy symbol and force Malack to recoil?

I've been wondering for a long time if the Belkar dying at this gate widespread expectation is a decoy to hide something bigger.

Also, If Xykon walks in sometime after this confrontation, it's going to be ugly. OOTS is an exhausted force sans rest.

[Deepbluediver]

Well....this got ugly fast.

[Jarian]

Evil Mastermind Malack now confirmed.

Also, no legs. Looking back, it seems kind of obvious now...

[Quild]

I'd like to say that I don't expect Malack to actually turn Durkon into a vampire, but I get wrong too many times when I expect or doesn't expect something for next strip!

[RNGgod]

Yeah, my first instinct is to assume this is it for Durkon.

But again, there was every chance that the same was true for Belkar six strips ago. So, best to wait and see.

[FujinAkari]

...

So...Malack intended to vamp Durkon from the very beginning?

It's official.

No it isn't. Malack wasn't considering Vamping ANYONE until a few minutes ago. Malack was just aware that giving Durkon a spell that could basically completely nullify him was a foolish decision, thus he worked in a way to nullify it, just in case.

[Tetsujin-28]

I think a sudden appearance by V is Durkon's only shot at getting out of this.

[PhantomFox]

Looks like someone has been learning from the Evil Overlord's List. If this isn't an instance of something on the list, it should be.

[GnomeFighter]

So, who's going to save the party? I guess it's going to be a case of kill the father to free the children. My guess is V which will absolve him.

[Arkanist]

Also, this seems to perhaps fulfill the prophecies of Durkon returning home posthumously and him visiting destruction on them when he next returns.

[Scowling Dragon]

Durkon will enter his Homeland.....Post Humorously.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Malack's a snake and Durkon's getting vamped. Welp, we're screwed.

[Procyonpi]

Oh ****. Could this be the end for Durkon? :(

[MeanMrsMustard]

I'm surprised he could pronounce the counterspell. Maybe he uses his forked tongue?
Remember the password for the Infiltration Protocol (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0812)?

[ThePhantasm]

Also, this seems to perhaps fulfill the prophecies of Durkon returning home posthumously and him visiting destruction on them when he next returns.

Well, as we learned when Malack was sucking on Belkar's head, don't assume too quickly that a prophecy is about to be fulfilled...

Although yeah, I think this is it for my favorite dwarf.

[JustWantedToSay]

Looks like someone has been learning from the Evil Overlord's List. If this isn't an instance of something on the list, it should be.

Rule 34 "I will not turn into a snake. It never helps."

oh why did I have to be numbered 34...

[le Suisse]

Never create something you cannot destroy. I said it a long time ago and will say it a long after. Too many characters were destroyed by their own creation used against them, or simply escaping their control.

This is one of the most awesome comic I ever seen.

On the funny side: How long will it take to people to start shiping these two?

[Mutant Sheep]

I'm wondering if there's any signifigance in the bite Malack's using. With Belkar, he chomped down on the head, but here, it looks like he's going for the "standard" neck bite.

Belkar's head is about half of his body. Little neck. Then again, so is Durkon?

[Gift Jeraff]

So Durkon might became a creature he hates that is usually slain by stabbing it with a piece of dead tree? How fitting. :smallfrown:

If Durkon does become a vampire, who wants to bet that he'll be staked by the (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootscast.html) Stick (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html)?

[Raineh Daze]

So, does anyone have any answers for these questions?


Are there any rules regarding targeting grappling combatants?
What's the LA for a Yuan-ti Abomination/Naga? Malack's ECL seems like it must be through the roof at this point.
Is it even possible that he's a Yuan-ti?

[Leliel]

Well.

That just goes to show that Tarquin chooses his friends like he makes his plans.

"Magnficently".

If you listen closely, you can hear Asmodeus cursing Nergal's name.

[Endon the White]

No Durkon! NO!

[CWater]

Oh dear.. Will there be anyone to save Durkon...:smalleek:

If the next page is a cut-away, I'll :smallfurious::smalltongue:

[MeanMrsMustard]

How long will it take to people to start shipping these two?
I'd be surprised if the shippers hadn't already started a long time ago.

[Divayth Fyr]

Ok, this leaves the question: why bother checking if Durkon protected himself if you could simply dispel the spell and not care at all*?

*yes, I know it's for the plot, but still..

[Agnostik]

I'm wondering if there's any signifigance in the bite Malack's using. With Belkar, he chomped down on the head, but here, it looks like he's going for the "standard" neck bite.
Well, it's been established earlier that OOTSverse halflings have very big heads (Belkar said something about it being by far the heaviest part of his body). It's probably easier to aim at than neck. :smallbiggrin:

[Nephrahim]

I'd be surprised if the shippers hadn't already started a long time ago.

I won't lie, the thought crossed my mind reading this comic.

[Leliel]

Rule 34 "I will not turn into a snake. It never helps."

oh why did I have to be numbered 34...

I don't think it counts if you're already a snake. Or have snake-like abilities, at any rate.

[Caesar]

THERE IT IS!!! Belkar as a vamp was just waaay too crass. This is epic story-telling, Giant.

[Henry the 57th]

And once again we see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

[le Suisse]

I'd be surprised if the shippers hadn't already started a long time ago.

Somehow your avatar makes your comment perfect.

[Incom]

If Rich hadn't said that Mass Death Ward being level 7 instead of 8 was an error, I'd say that we should have seen this coming because of it.

[The Black Cat]

Ack, too good! I can't handle this tension.

[SaintRidley]

So, does anyone have any answers for these questions?


Are there any rules regarding targeting grappling combatants?
What's the LA for a Yuan-ti Abomination/Naga? Malack's ECL seems like it must be through the roof at this point.
Is it even possible that he's a Yuan-ti?


If Malack were a Yuan-Ti Abomination with exactly the minimum levels in Cleric to cast Harm, he would have 9 racial hit dice, 11 class levels, +7 LA from his race and +8 LA from vampire, putting him at ECL 35.

[St Fan]

More likely a legless Yuan-ti half-blood or abomination- Naga's generally don't have arms, either.

Or maybe some kind of homebrewed, mutant vampire form for lizardfolks.

After all, vampires are shapeshifters and those who were once human are often portrayed with intermediary forms between man and bat or wolf. I can see a reptile vampire having some half-snake form as an option.

[The Giant]

Ok, this leaves the question: why bother checking if Durkon protected himself if you could simply dispel the spell and not care at all*?

*yes, I know it's for the plot, but still..

You don't play your trump card first. You play it last, when it will ensure victory. Or better yet, you win without even using it.

[Caesar]

Yuan-ti would fit... but it runs afoul of the OGL/product ID thing, so the above stated naga is much more likely, since they're mythological entities.
.

lolwut? how long have you not been reading this comic again? :smallamused:

[Arkanist]

If Durkon does become a vampire, it will open the gateway for plenty of White Wolf jokes. If he doesn't.... I don't even know where this comic is going anymore, I'll be honest. It's a roller coaster ride in the dark.

[MeanMrsMustard]

Somehow your avatar makes your comment perfect.
And I will never be able to look at it the same way again. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[Chilingsworth]

If Malack is a Yaun-ti, Durkon might be saved by the lawyers...

[Burner28]

Awesome strip! great job on building the suspense! Will Durkon get out of this one?


Never create something you cannot destroy. I said it a long time ago and will say it a long after. Too many characters were destroyed by their own creation used against them, or simply escaping their control.

This is one of the most awesome comic I ever seen.

On the funny side: How long will it take to people to start shiping these two?

Hopefully, never!

[Henry the 57th]

You don't play your trump card first. You play it last, when it will ensure victory. Or better yet, you win without even using it.

Clever vampire lizard snake thing. I guess this is how Durkon will returning home "posthumously".

[Harry Leipzig]

I think a sudden appearance by V is Durkon's only shot at getting out of this.

Yes, I think that's the only Durkon's getting out of this one: V rushes in, sees what's going on, and casts a couple Incinerates (assuming V prepared some today).

Failing that, may be time to start discussing Vamp!Durkon. What are the chances that OOTS would accept another Evil-aligned member? Of course, considering the fact that Durkon would be LE and a fairly honerable fellow, I think it likely that he could come to some kind of compromise with them (only feed on Evil characters or people the team fights against). But who knows, maybe Durkon would ask Roy to stake him rather than exist as a vampire.

[Guancyto]

Holy ****!

Giant, I commend you. There are so many things about Malack that we really should have seen coming, and didn't. (Having reread a few parts involving him, the bloodwart tea is actually described as such when it's introduced, it's just that the text has similar-looking o's and a's. And when Durkon splashes a bit of it, it's blood red.)

This was yet another one of them.

[The Glyphstone]

:elan: He's a Yun...Yan...Yon....Serpent Thingy!


Also, a Fridge brilliance moment: When Durkon tried to casss MDW before against Sabine, and the spell failed because Thor and the devas couldn't understand his request...it wasn't because Thor was an idiot this time, it was a hint the spell had been tampered with.

[Omegonthesane]

Ok, this leaves the question: why bother checking if Durkon protected himself if you could simply dispel the spell and not care at all*?

*yes, I know it's for the plot, but still..

Ninja'd by the Giant himself, but to elaborate - if Malack had simply dispelled the Mass Death Ward without first rendering Durkon unable to cast, Durkon could have cast a garden-variety Death Ward on himself, and we have no reason to think Malack has a backdoor into those.

[Raineh Daze]

If Malack were a Yuan-Ti Abomination with exactly the minimum levels in Cleric to cast Harm, he would have 9 racial hit dice, 11 class levels, +7 LA from his race and +8 LA from vampire, putting him at ECL 35.

And 20 HD total. Ouch. Even with a whole bunch more class levels, he'd be tougher than practically all of the OotS. No wonder he'd be stuck at level 11...

[DaOldeWolf]

No Durkon! Well, it seems its all over now. :smallfrown:

[Ted The Bug]

OH WOW.

And I thought the Belkar moment was gonna be the climax. How naive I was. What's really intriguing is that no matter what happens, Durkon will still be heading back to the Dwarven Lands...

(minor quibble: it's a little hard to follow the panels in the middle of the strip. I read the four panels on the left before reading the big one to the right, and I was lost for a bit about what had happened)

[ThePhantasm]

Failing that, may be time to start discussing Vamp!Durkon. What are the chances that OOTS would accept another Evil-aligned member? Of course, considering the fact that Durkon would be LE and a fairly honerable fellow, I think it likely that he could come to some kind of compromise with them (only feed on Evil characters or people the team fights against). But who knows, maybe Durkon would ask Roy to stake him rather than exist as a vampire.

I don't know if Roy actually would. He and Durkon are pretty close.

[Morty]

Hm. With Durkon potentially becoming a vampire and Belkar's clock ticking away, it's possible that the Order will be down to four members soon.

[LordofNaught]

Well...oh my. This is problematic. Very problematic. On another topic, could someone point me towards the comic where Malack helped Durkon create the Mass Death Ward spell, or it was first mentioned he did so?

[Anarion]

Also, this seems to perhaps fulfill the prophecies of Durkon returning home posthumously and him visiting destruction on them when he next returns.

Yep, pretty much my thoughts here. Maybe he'll stay around with the Order anyway, though. Malack seems to be able to be personally rational and unlike Belkar I feel like Durkon has enough reputation with the Order that they would look at him as a vampire and go "oh man, that sucks...let's head to the next gate."


You don't play your trump card first. You play it last, when it will ensure victory. Or better yet, you win without even using it.

Spoiler, you're implying that this is the last play.

Oh and a question: are we going to learn how this will affect Durkon's allegiance to Thor? Can that be removed by this change, forcing him to lose his clerical magic until he finds a new source of power?

[Mike Havran]

And here I thought Malack was a nice person for so long...

Now I really would like to see Team Evil vs. full Team Tarquin kickass Evil-to-Evil showdown.

[MeanMrsMustard]

Failing that, may be time to start discussing Vamp!Durkon. What are the chances that OOTS would accept another Evil-aligned member?
1. I now really appreciate the move the Giant made earlier of Belkar being bitten but not vamped. It raises the tension of Durkon being bitten more.
2. If Durkon is turned here, I don't think his personality or alignment will change. I also don't think he'll ask to be staked, because I'm sure he'll recognize that he has the capacity to do a great deal of good, even as an undead. But I think a vampire Durkon would be able to satisfy his need for blood in a nonevil way.

[LadyEowyn]

Well, as every cliffhanger strip we've had so far in this segment has been followed by a reversal (Belkar's going to be vamp'd! No, Durkon's going to lose! No, Durkon's winning! No, Malack turned the tables! No, Durkon's winning again!), I'm going to assume this is the perfect time for someone else to show up and rescue Durkon - either Belkar will stop being Dominated, or the rest of the crew will have finished disarming the door and come to look for Durkon and Belkar.

I don't think it will be V, because from appearances he's in a completely different (and much deeper) part of the pyramid. But I've been wrong in my predictions about this comic many times before.

[CWater]

Well...oh my. This is problematic. Very problematic. On another topic, could someone point me towards the comic where Malack helped Durkon create the Mass Death Ward spell, or it was first mentioned he did so?

Here:smallsmile:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html

EDIT: ...And looking at that panel in the bottom-left corner made me sad.:smallfrown:
Great story you are spinning here, Giant!:smallsmile:

[ReaderAt2046]

1. Ok, that was a brilliant move for Malack. Durkon loses a minimum of 1d4 Con, Malack gains some temporary hp, and if something doesn't happen in the next few rounds, Durkon is defeated. Of course, this is only the 5th comic of 9, so something will happen next round to tip the balance of power back towards the Order. Of course, the Giant knows that we know this, and wil probably have Durkon be defeated just to break expectation. On the other hand, the Giant knows that we know that he knows what to expect, so he may have made plans based on what we know he knows that we know he will do, and so on and so forth.

2. I knew from the general structure of this sequence that Malack would take back the advantage dramatically this comic, but I hadn't guessed that he'd be able to dispel the Ward. Seems obvious in retrospect, though.

3. If there really are nine strips in this sequence, then the pattern we have seen so far will end on a "Malack winning" strip, though it could also be that the 9th strip will do something else to herald the end of the battle, such as Xykon warping in or simply cutting away to Haley, Elan, and Roy having finally disarmed all the traps and seeing what's beyond.

[bguy]

Not looking good. Hopefully Durkon remembered to hold back a Word of Recall.

[The Giant]

Spoiler, you're implying that this is the last play.

No, I'm implying that Malack thinks this is the last play, and chose his actions accordingly.

[Samalpetey]

Ok, this leaves the question: why bother checking if Durkon protected himself if you could simply dispel the spell and not care at all*?

*yes, I know it's for the plot, but still..
I think Malack was trying not to reveal that he had that key word, so that he could dismiss it when Durkon used it in a big showdown. Now that durkon's grappled, it's unlikely he'll be able to cast it again though :smallfrown: EDIT: Damn, ninja'd by the Giant himself

[Harry Leipzig]

I don't know if Roy actually would. He and Durkon are pretty close.

Making for an even more emotional scene. Roy being forced to kill his best friend, people would be bawling. And I think an emotional death in the OOTS right before the climax could really drive the seriousness of the situation home. I wouldn't put it past The Giant, remember Roy's death?:smallfrown:

[Paseo H]

No it isn't. Malack wasn't considering Vamping ANYONE until a few minutes ago. Malack was just aware that giving Durkon a spell that could basically completely nullify him was a foolish decision, thus he worked in a way to nullify it, just in case.

A simple "WRONG" would have sufficed. :smalltongue:

[teratorn]

Malack's is a regular reptilian, from a race derived from Bipes biporum (http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.pt/2011/03/ajolote-mexican-mole-lizard.html).

[Arkanist]

But I think a vampire Durkon would be able to satisfy his need for blood in a nonevil way.

Maybe he will drink the blood of the wicked. But then he'll end up blunting his teeth on all those trees. Either way, he'll need to buy a lot of d12s...

[stsasser]

Awesome Giant.

'Xxzerkqei' is the new '1234password'.

[TRH]

Wow, looks like Tarquin's not the only one who goes easy on the OOTS: Malack could have owned Durkon at any time by dismissing the Ward and then going for a grapple. What would be his ECL if he's a Naga instead of a Yuan-Ti, out of curiosity?

[Chessgeek]

And another (final?) twist in the Durkon - Malack struggle! It was a good effort by our bearded friend, much closer than anyone expected.

Oh, and Malack doesn't have legs. Possibly the most important part of this update, actually.

EDIT: And how does one pronounce "Xxzerkqei"? Answer: With great difficulty.

[Arkanist]

Wow, looks like Tarquin's not the only one who goes easy on the OOTS: Malack could have owned Durkon at any time by dismissing the Ward and then going for a grapple. What would be his ECL if he's a Naga instead of a Yuan-Ti, out of curiosity?

Probably high enough that the Snail would be shocked and appalled.

[Samalpetey]

Wow, looks like Tarquin's not the only one who goes easy on the OOTS: Malack could have owned Durkon at any time by dismissing the Ward and then going for a grapple. What would be his ECL if he's a Naga instead of a Yuan-Ti, out of curiosity?
But by grappling first, he stops Durkon casting a regular death ward on himself (assuming he has one prepared)

[Kaulguard]

"What the wha-?"

To quote the MC Bat Commander.

Man this isn't going well at all.

[WoLong]

Geez, a huge twist every comic.

[Grey Watcher]

Durkon will enter his Homeland.....Post Humorously.

... I can't believe I only just got that.


If Malack were a Yuan-Ti Abomination with exactly the minimum levels in Cleric to cast Harm, he would have 9 racial hit dice, 11 class levels, +7 LA from his race and +8 LA from vampire, putting him at ECL 35.

Well, 200 years as a vampire plus however long he was alive before that allows for a lot of time spent level grinding. Or maybe he spent a period as the personal nemesis to an epic-level PC, mooching free level-ups? [tinfoil hat]Maybe Malack was in the Holey Brotherhood? Or was once known as Baron Pineapple?!?[/tinfoil hat]

On the one hand, I think this might be it for Durkon, since playing the Here-Comes-the-Cavalry Card twice in such quick succession seems unlikely. On the other hand, Burlew might be banking on us thinking that very thing. All I know is that it would be quite tragic for Durkon to return to his beloved homeland not as the honored and revered dead he was expecting, but instead as something unholy and reviled by his people.

I'm crossing my fingers that Vaarsuvius will blunder onto the scene and start unloading 1d4 cans of whoop-ass. Or maybe Xykon's arrival will actually do some good for the Order by sparing Durkon from vampirism?

[MeanMrsMustard]

No, I'm implying that Malack thinks this is the last play, and chose his actions accordingly.
When I saw this, the first thing I thought was "I imply nothing! I state openly that…"

[factotum]

No "holy"? Now would be a good time...five minutes ago.

Holy Word is a 7th-level spell, and Durkon has already said he doesn't have anything useful left above 4th level. So yes, you're right, it would be a good time, but Durkon doesn't have the spell to use!

Anyway, oh, snap...surely this fight can't be over so quickly?

[Mantine]

...

So...Malack intended to vamp Durkon from the very beginning?

It's official.

I am impressed.

Well, you shouldn't. There's nothing pointing that way.

[Koraxx]

YES!

Oh god yes.

Strip a day is probably spoiling me but I don't care, this is freaking AWESOME!

[Lex-Kat]

I'm actually happy with this, so far. In a way, I think Durkon deserves to lose this, Malack tried to remain peaceful and nice toward Durkon at the start. It was Durkon who turned on the friendship, and for who? For Belkar. :smallyuk:

[stsasser]

No, I'm implying that Malack thinks this is the last play, and chose his actions accordingly.

Can I get a 'DUN DUN DUNNN!'?:smallsigh:

[Paseo H]

Well, you shouldn't. There's nothing pointing that way.

Already ceded above. You'll have to forgive me, I was just sufficiently whammed by 876 that I forgot some details. :p

[ellindsey]

How does grappling work in D&D? Can Durkon do anything, like present his holy symbol to repel Malack, while being held like that?

[Stormlock]

This would be our first instance of seeing a good character become an intelligent undead if I'm not mistaken (well, garden variety always evil undead anyways- Soon doesn't count) so I'm very interested to see what it may do to Durkon's personality. Assuming he is freed from Malack's enslavement before he gets destroyed.

Also, I love how I completely overlooked the possibility of Malack simply dismissing the death ward thanks to the subpar/feinting combat that led up to this. Who needs to shapeshift or summon minions when you can just dismiss your enemy's (second) most powerful spell?

I suppose there is still the slim chance V walks in on this, or team evil shows up, or Girard or god knows what. But right now all signs point to dead dwarf and Sexy Shoeless Vampiric God of War, and I love it.

[Darth V.]

It seems sooner or later every linear guild cleric ends up grappling with Durkon:smallamused:

[Arkanist]

How does grappling work in D&D? Can Durkon do anything, like present his holy symbol to repel Malack, while being held like that?

I think the comic title accurately describes Durkon's situation. Malack is a vampire/cleric/naga/yuan-ti who is trained in exotic grapple techniques. He's probably caught in a bind.

[Morty]

I just realized... as a vampire, Durkon won't be able to drink alcohol.

[Tragak]

Given the rate at which The Giant Troll has been whip-lashing between who's winning, what are the odds that Malack will spit him out for having a Blood Alcohol Content of 65%?

[bookguy]

How does grappling work in D&D? Can Durkon do anything, like present his holy symbol to repel Malack, while being held like that?

The grappling rules are too complicated. By the time Durkon figures out whether or not he can do it, he will already be dead.:smalltongue:

[Amidus Drexel]

I'm actually happy with this, so far. In a way, I think Durkon deserves to lose this, Malack tried to remain peaceful and nice toward Durkon at the start. It was Durkon who turned on the friendship, and for who? For Belkar. :smallyuk:

I'm pretty sure Durkon's motivation for attacking Malack was a combination of dislike for undead, and a sense of duty to what the party was trying to accomplish (i.e. protect the gate (however that would actually have worked out)). The fact that it was Belkar was largely irrelevant.

[Raineh Daze]

So, Yuan-ti Abomination ECL answered...

Anyone got an answer on the 'grappling targeting' thing? I think I remembered something about there being a chance to hit the wrong combatant, but I can't remember which system that's from. :smallconfused:

[MeanMrsMustard]

It seems sooner or later every linear guild cleric ends up grappling with Durkon:smallamused:
Did I miss the part where Leeky Windstaff did?
Also, yuck. :P

[Nephrahim]

As much as I am a fan of Vampires (White wolf, anyone?) It would be kind of heartbreaking to see Durkon become one, since it would turn him into a being so at odds with what he is now.

[Bulldog Psion]

And so Durkon goes into the dark.

[Harry Leipzig]

Or maybe Xykon's arrival will actually do some good for the Order by sparing Durkon from vampirism?

This. Xykon has been missing for quite a while. Roy starts saying something about Xykon and- speak of the devil, there's Xykon stepping through Dimension Door.:smalleek:

.... Which could force both teams to team up against Team Evil in an epic final arc, filled with action and emotional moments. Everybody and their opposites getting moments of fighting back-to-back and snarking with each other. Yes please.:smallamused:

[CWater]

Did I miss the part where Leeky Windstaff did?
Also, yuck. :P

He was a druid :smallamused:

Or is? I don't remember if he died or not...

[Shale]

Durkon's plan really was just hitting Malack with a hammer? Oh boy. I think he might actually be down for the count.

[Canisius]

Boo. Exactly what I didn't want to see. =(

I wish there were a D&D method for removing vampirism so this wouldn't be so wrenching. Ah well - I trust the Giant's narrative capabilities.

[Tragak]

If Malack were a Yuan-Ti Abomination with exactly the minimum levels in Cleric to cast Harm, he would have 9 racial hit dice, 11 class levels, +7 LA from his race and +8 LA from vampire, putting him at ECL 35.
Wait a minute, isn't ASMODEUS level 37-ish?

[Mike Havran]

I just realized... as a vampire, Durkon won't be able to drink alcohol.

Why?

On the other thought, it just came to me that Tarquin was instructing a friggin' 200-year-old snake tricks on how to grapple his opponent in a combat. Is there no end to his preparedness?

[MeanMrsMustard]

He was a druid :smallamused:
Or is? I don't remember if he died or not...
I think he ran away with Pompey.
Also, good point. I just kind of mentally lumped him in as a divine caster.

Minor question: how does Malack keep his balance when he's grappling Durkon? Looks like it takes a lot of upper- and/or mid-body strength.

[Raineh Daze]

I wish there were a D&D method for removing vampirism so this wouldn't be so wrenching. Ah well - I trust the Giant's narrative capabilities.

Destroy, Resurrect.

Any miraculous reinforcement must show up in this tunnel in the next... 5 to 20 rounds, assuming extremely high constitution? So, uh, 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

[NerdyKris]

Boo. Exactly what I didn't want to see. =(

I wish there were a D&D method for removing vampirism so this wouldn't be so wrenching. Ah well - I trust the Giant's narrative capabilities.

Two strips previous Durkon stated that killing the vampire and raising him will cure vampirism. So even if there's not a D&D reason, there's a house rule way for this world.

[Nephrahim]

Boo. Exactly what I didn't want to see. =(

I wish there were a D&D method for removing vampirism so this wouldn't be so wrenching. Ah well - I trust the Giant's narrative capabilities.

Woulden't resurrecting be it? From the way Malack was talking it sounded like if he was revived he would be who he was before he was a vampire. I assume it would be the same for him.

Who would be able to cast such a spell, though...

[eilandesq]

Definitely all over as far as Durkon "winning" this fight--he could theoretically have Word of Recall racked (which would likely take him far away from the fight to the detriment of the OotS while saving his life), but the (minimum) two negative levels he just took (unless Malack is refraining from draining his levels intentionally to keep him as powerful as possible after turning) would likely wipe that out. Also, the unknown secret plan that Elan took Durkon aside for could come into play, but does anyone *really* want to owe their survival to a "clever plan by Elan?" :smallbiggrin:

[sam79]

No, I'm implying that Malack thinks this is the last play, and chose his actions accordingly.


Perfect time for a last minute field goal and extra time! No, wait, he's still enthralled, right? So, V?

Poor Durkon. Things are looking bad. But its always darkest just before dawn, right?

Right?

This fight has ebbed and flowed, with the upper hand changing with each new strip. Great as this strip is, I hope that pattern continues in 877. To lose Durkon would be bad enough. But to lose him like this...well, that's not a happy ending, for him at least.

[Faldrath]

I'm not familiar with D&D grapple rules, but could Durkon still cast Thor's Might while grappled? I'm not sure if that's a "regular" spell or some sort of spell-like ability Thor's clerics get.

I know he said the ceiling was too low, but better to be crushed while destroying Malack's body than becoming a vampire, I would think.

[rgrekejin]

Well, even with the low ceiling, maybe he can still use Thor's Might to shake Malack off? Grappling would make that difficult, assuming that it's just a re-named Righteous Might, but maybe?

[Grey Watcher]

Did I miss the part where Leeky Windstaff did?
Also, yuck. :P

Technically, he's not a cleric. And with that, I nominate myself for the Eugene Greenhilt Award in Pointlessly Specific Semantic Nitpicking!

EDIT: I should've known taking the time to crack a joke would get me ninja'd. :smalltongue:

[WindStruck]

By the way, do any of you see the weird folds/bulges in Malack's robe after it's confirmed he has no legs? It seems as though he also has 6 arms as well...

[Arkanist]

Woulden't resurrecting be it? From the way Malack was talking it sounded like if he was revived he would be who he was before he was a vampire. I assume it would be the same for him.

Who would be able to cast such a spell, though...

Malack. (Not a chance.)

Redcloak. (Not a chance at all in the 666 layers of the abyss.)

The High Priest of Thor. (Not likely.)

Assuming Durkon crumbles to dust when killed as a vampire, it would have to be a high level cleric.

[Burner28]

EDIT: I should've known taking the time to crack a joke would get me ninja'd. :smalltongue:

It happens to all of us!:smalltongue:


By the way, do any of you see the weird folds/bulges in Malack's robe after it's confirmed he has no legs? It seems as though he also has 6 arms as well...

Nice catch!

[zimmerwald1915]

Holy Word is a 7th-level spell, and Durkon has already said he doesn't have anything useful left above 4th level. So yes, you're right, it would be a good time, but Durkon doesn't have the spell to use!

Anyway, oh, snap...surely this fight can't be over so quickly?
In the same strip he said that, he strongly implied that...


I'm not familiar with D&D grapple rules, but could Durkon still cast Thor's Might while grappled? I'm not sure if that's a "regular" spell or some sort of spell-like ability Thor's clerics get.

I know he said the ceiling was too low, but better to be crushed while destroying Malack's body than becoming a vampire, I would think.


Well, even with the low ceiling, maybe he can still use Thor's Might to shake Malack off? Grappling would make that difficult, assuming that it's just a re-named Righteous Might, but maybe?
Darn it!

Anyway, given how important size modifiers are in opposed grapple checks (as Belkar discovered against Windstriker), attempting to cast thor's might might be Durkon's best move here (depending on whether he can manage a spell with somatic components while grappled, or whether thor's might has somatic components in the OOTSverse).

[BeethroBudkin07]

I can totally picture Xykon entering the room at this moment and making some sort of comment along the lines of "Get a room, you two"... :smalltongue:

Can't wait to see more of this 9-part mega update fest! :smallbiggrin:

[Onyavar]

Oh No Durkon! Durkon!:smalleek:

You're just teasing us again Giant, right?

Right?
If he's teasing us again, I'll be severely disappointed. I mean, Bozzok already lampshaded it before, this "how can the good guys keep doing that" ('that' being escaping in the last minute). Durkon interrupting Belkars vamp-turn was okay. V or Haley+Roy interrupting Durkons vamp-turn will be a tiresome thing, and a stretch as well.

Durkon has his prophecy, so we know he won't live when he returns (alright, the prophecy thing was true for belkar, too), and becoming a vampire fits very well. Not to Durkons personality of course, but Durkon is still the same boring dwarf he was when he started. He had his big shiny moment here in the fight, proving his stubborn good alignment and his personality - now it's time for a change.
Durkon - no longer bland but filling!

What I'm most interested in, is how Durkons personality will change. Vamp Belkar = Old Belkar. Boring.
But Durkon will be turned into something nearly diametrically opposed to his old self.

Edit: Maybe he will oppose Malack and rejoin the order as a vampire, trying (but ultimately failing) to be the stereotypical vegetarian vamp, or hiding his affliction from Roy and the others. And first he kills Belkar - there can't be two openly evil characters in the party.

[Themrys]

Definitely all over as far as Durkon "winning" this fight--he could theoretically have Word of Recall racked (which would likely take him far away from the fight to the detriment of the OotS while saving his life), but the (minimum) two negative levels he just took (unless Malack is refraining from draining his levels intentionally to keep him as powerful as possible after turning) would likely wipe that out. Also, the unknown secret plan that Elan took Durkon aside for could come into play, but does anyone *really* want to owe their survival to a "clever plan by Elan?" :smallbiggrin:

If Elan has counseled Durkon on what to do when being level-drained, that could get really interesting. :smallcool:


I'm wondering if there's any signifigance in the bite Malack's using. With Belkar, he chomped down on the head, but here, it looks like he's going for the "standard" neck bite.

Fanservice? I did write I wanted a sexy biting scene. :smalltongue:

[Tragak]

Technically, he's not a cleric. And with that, I nominate myself for the Eugene Greenhilt Award in Pointlessly Specific Semantic Nitpicking!

EDIT: I should've known taking the time to crack a joke would get me ninja'd. :smalltongue:

You are the valedictorian NO MORE!!

[t209]

Now the prophecy will be Fulfilled. Either durkon will return home as corpse or vampire.
And Possibly destroying it.

[mp122984]

I'm not familiar with D&D grapple rules, but could Durkon still cast Thor's Might while grappled? I'm not sure if that's a "regular" spell or some sort of spell-like ability Thor's clerics get.

I know he said the ceiling was too low, but better to be crushed while destroying Malack's body than becoming a vampire, I would think.

He can cast spells while tied up, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0169.html) so maybe he cast spells while grappled? It's not much, but it's at least a chance.

[Shale]

Oooh, Thor's Might could work. Durkon said the ceiling was too low for it before, but if he's not upright...

[Canisius]

I'm pretty sure Durkon's motivation for attacking Malack was a combination of dislike for undead, and a sense of duty to what the party was trying to accomplish (i.e. protect the gate (however that would actually have worked out)). The fact that it was Belkar was largely irrelevant.

He's a Lawful Good cleric. I wouldn't want him played any other way. You see undead, you attack. Especially if you caught the undead chomping on a party member.

[Porthos]

Haven't posted in a long while, but this is forcing me to come back.

Poor Durkon. :smallfrown: Poor gruffy, irritable, sweet Drukon. If this is indeed how the dual Durkon prophcies are fulfilled, it's been long suspected by many. But still heartwrenching. Doubly so to be by one he considered a friend. :smallfrown: :smallfrown: :smallfrown:

[SaintRidley]

Wow, looks like Tarquin's not the only one who goes easy on the OOTS: Malack could have owned Durkon at any time by dismissing the Ward and then going for a grapple. What would be his ECL if he's a Naga instead of a Yuan-Ti, out of curiosity?

Nonapplicable, since Nagas are aberrations and can't be made into vampires. Only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and dragons (who acquire the Vampire Dragon template from the Draconomicon) can. There are vampire Mind Flayers, but they don't seem to have any relationship to actual vampires in any way and nobody knows how they came about.

[Raineh Daze]

If Thor's Might is a refluffing of this, (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Righteous_Might) then Durkon probably can't cast it. Doesn't he need to be able to reach his Holy Symbol to cast, anyway, or am I confusing it with Turning? :smallconfused:

[FujinAkari]

He can cast spells while tied up, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0169.html) so maybe he cast spells while grappled? It's not much, but it's at least a chance.

Freedom of Movement would work very well, if he can cast...

[Grey Watcher]

Durkon's plan really was just hitting Malack with a hammer? Oh boy. I think he might actually be down for the count.

I think he was banking on Malack being non-optimized for hand-to-hand combat. I mean, aside from the spell list, you'd think he was a Wizard, the way he dresses and fights. Going melee honestly seemed like a good tactical option at the time, even to me, watching from the comfort of my living room. And then suddenly he's got a nasty trick up his sleeverobe in the form of a +Yes to Grapple checks.

[Amidus Drexel]

He's a Lawful Good cleric. I wouldn't want him played any other way. You see undead, you attack. Especially if you caught the undead chomping on a party member.

Well, I'd hope the LG character at least took a second to make sure he was doing the right thing. Not all undead are evil (even if most are). He certainly was in the right to attack Malack, though.

[Stormlock]

Well, staking a vampire in DnD doesn't dust them actually, since if you remove the stake they come back to life, and removing a stake from a pile of dust makes little sense. I think only sunlight would dustify one, maybe drowning.

[ObeyMyBrain]

So that poison that Durkon was dosed with a couple strips ago...any chance that could "spoil the meal"? :smallyuk:

[Raineh Daze]

I think I've worked out the main objection to Yuan-ti: way too many teeth for something snake-oriented. :smallbiggrin:

[Draz74]

Huh. I kind of hope Durkon will be saved by the arrival of Team Evil. It would be cool, after this fight, if the Cleric Friends had to go back to working together in order to survive against a superior foe.

If not ... then it would also be kinda epic if Durkon gets vamped, then casts Resurrection on himself.

[Amidus Drexel]

I think he was banking on Malack being non-optimized for hand-to-hand combat. I mean, aside from the spell list, you'd think he was a Wizard, the way he dresses and fights. Going melee honestly seemed like a good tactical option at the time, even to me, watching from the comfort of my living room. And then suddenly he's got a nasty trick up his sleeverobe in the form of a +Yes to Grapple checks.

Well, vampires have a huge bonus to str, along with a bunch of abilities that are perfect for close combat (notably energy drain and con drain). I wouldn't have attacked him in melee if I could have avoided it, although I do see where you (and probably Durkon) are coming from.

[Peelee]

As soon as Malack's vampirism was revealed, the scene became much scarier and creepier. Now that his snake-ness is confirmed, it's even more so. Great way to hold off confirmation of his race; I don't think it would have worked nearly as well as if we'd known all along.

[E^G]

Well the Giant did possibly foreshadow something when he mentioned that the cat was also protected... and dismissal is probably a standard (verbal) action. (Or M would have used it before.)

Um... maybe the kitty will save the day?

???
(anything else seems a bit ... camp, but not unreasonable given their proximity to allies...)



Curious though: What happens to a priest who's dominated by a force opposed to his deity. Does he just lose domain specific spells until he finds a new deity or does he lose all spells?

[Raineh Daze]

Hmm... would Large size actually be enough to let Durkon break free? Large size is a +4, and +4 to strength (based off Righteous Might) is a +2... but I think a snake tail is a +4 to grappling, too, and as a vampire, Malack has high strength.

[JackRackham]

SO....Yuan-ti Halfblood? Abomination? Some sort of Naga? What are we looking at here? On a related note, I'm having trouble finding the template for a halfblood, as only the pureblood is given in the Monster Manual (Serpent Kingdoms was no help, either). Any ideas how this changes the game?

[jere7my]

I went back to look at a thread from five months ago in which we were discussing Malack's species, and was amused to find this reply to one of my posts:


Have fun holding onto the hope that Malack turns out to be a fiendish half-vampire yuan-ti or whatever weird theory you have. I'm bored now.

:smallbiggrin: (Though, technically, I was only saying it was possible he was a yuan-ti; the fiendish half-vampire part was Killian's elaboration.)

[Raineh Daze]

SO....Yuan-ti Halfblood? Abomination? Some sort of Naga? What are we looking at here? On a related note, I'm having trouble finding the template for a halfblood, as only the pureblood is given in the Monster Manual (Serpent Kingdoms was no help, either). Any ideas how this changes the game?

If he's a Yuan-ti Abomination, his ECL is 35, and he has 20HD. Beyond that? No clue.

[Esclados]

Oh, Malack. <3

[E^G]

Well, vampires have a huge bonus to str, along with a bunch of abilities that are perfect for close combat (notably energy drain and con drain). I wouldn't have attacked him in melee if I could have avoided it, although I do see where you (and probably Durkon) are coming from.



Aye.
Vampires have +6 to strength.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm
Divine power gives another +6 to strength.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm

So that's still a statistical +3 bonus difference.
Of course with Improved Grappling M has a statistical +7 bonus. Modulo race specific bonuses, which may favor him.

I don't know my spell compendium super well, but I have no idea what Durkon was hoping to accomplish meleeing a vampire that can assume gaseous form and heals 5/hp per round.

His own fault for dissing his comrads. (Seriously, only Belkar and Elan are Will liabilities. Haley is a thief she has anti-charm specific class powers.) :/

[Grey Watcher]

Well, vampires have a huge bonus to str, along with a bunch of abilities that are perfect for close combat (notably energy drain and con drain). I wouldn't have attacked him in melee if I could have avoided it, although I do see where you (and probably Durkon) are coming from.

That place we're coming from being the Land of I Haven't Checked to Rules on Vampires in Quite Some Time. :smallbiggrin:

[Shale]

I think he was banking on Malack being non-optimized for hand-to-hand combat. I mean, aside from the spell list, you'd think he was a Wizard, the way he dresses and fights. Going melee honestly seemed like a good tactical option at the time, even to me, watching from the comfort of my living room. And then suddenly he's got a nasty trick up his sleeverobe in the form of a +Yes to Grapple checks.

Even without the prehensile everything and magical cheat code, he's got Fast Healing and magic/silver DR, combining to negate 15 damage per turn. Durkon might have outpaced that, but it'd take a long time that he didn't have.

(Of course, knowing about the DR would require a knowledge: religion check, and we know how good Durkon is at those.)

[St Fan]

There are vampire Mind Flayers, but they don't seem to have any relationship to actual vampires in any way and nobody knows how they came about.

Unless you've read the Ravenloft adventure Thoughts of Darkness, which introduced Illithid vampires to the 2nd edition, and includes their origin.

[natrl20]

Woah woah woah, so if Durkon is vamped, he automatically becomes Evil, even if he is not really evil (like, still trying to help the Order). So as a cleric that change in capitalized alignment means he loses his casting abilities right? Would Thor really turn his back because of something that happened to Durkon against his will?:smalleek:

[Mantine]

I don't see how he could free himself alone.
Can't cast, can't move, Malack must have some ungodly grapple check now (vampire template + divine power + obscure holding technique) and can't even stall for time losing 2-4 CON each round.

[Porthos]

Would Thor really turn his back because of something that happened to Durkon against his will?:smalleek:

I'm sure Nergal will be happy to have a new follower. :smallyuk:

[Golden-Esque]

I think a sudden appearance by V is Durkon's only shot at getting out of this.

I concur. V is Durkon's only real chance at this point; considering Durkon's comment about "weak-willed" describing half of his party, it would have turned out to be a very nice piece of foreshadowing.

An equally poised question, however, is "Can V actually stop Malak?"

My prediction is that V will show up. Considering that Durkon is currently in a grapple with Malak, V's only real choice is to blast them both with some sort of AoE spell. I could see Durkon telling V to do it, honestly. Then the part of the prophecy of Durkon returning home posthumously could become true. Plus I don't think his prophecy ever said he would rest eternal after returning home.

[Raineh Daze]

An equally poised question, however, is "Can V actually stop Malak?"

My prediction is that V will show up. Considering that Durkon is currently in a grapple with Malak, V's only real choice is to blast them both with some sort of AoE spell. I could see Durkon telling V to do it, honestly. Then the part of the prophecy of Durkon returning home posthumously could become true. Plus I don't think his prophecy ever said he would rest eternal after returning home.

The problem being that if Durkon dies, V is then left entirely alone, and in a position where there's an angry vampire that probably wants to kill her in the same room. :smallconfused:

[Themrys]

Woah woah woah, so if Durkon is vamped, he automatically becomes Evil, even if he is not really evil (like, still trying to help the Order). So as a cleric that change in capitalized alignment means he loses his casting abilities right? Would Thor really turn his back because of something that happened to Durkon against his will?:smalleek:

Technically, he did die in battle. Thor should like that. :smallbiggrin:

[Canisius]

I
Durkon has his prophecy, so we know he won't live when he returns (alright, the prophecy thing was true for belkar, too), and becoming a vampire fits very well. Not to Durkons personality of course, but Durkon is still the same boring dwarf he was when he started. He had his big shiny moment here in the fight, proving his stubborn good alignment and his personality - now it's time for a change.
Durkon - no longer bland but filling!


I dunno - I've always thought Rich has written Durkon as an indispensable straight-man. And he's always the most reliable in a fight, iirc. Also, there are a lot fewer times that Durkon's broken the 4th wall than any other of the NPCs, so he seems far more rooted in the "game" than the other protagonists.

Very exciting story, though. I never thought Durkon had a chance in a straight up fight with Malack.

As far as future developments:
There are several characters that could show up suddenly to change the balance of power again.
1. V, obviously, but
2. Belkar may come to before Durkon's vamping is complete. My guess (with little D&D moxie but having played other RPGs) is that Malack can't use his Dominating Gaze while grappling or vamping. Any D&D players know how that works?
3. The lich may choose this time to appear.
4. Roy & party may have heard the commotion.
5. Mr. Scruffy completely disemboweled a low-level NPC. He might be able to come up with at least a distraction
6. This would be a good time for Thog to reappear.
7. It could actually be that Durkon gets vamped, which would suck, so to speak. Though..
8. Even if he is vamped, we saw many strips where Roy was D.E.A.D., and in the end managed to get a rez. There's a lot of stuff Count Durkon could do over the course of many strips.
9. Finally, I think an undead member of OOTS could be pivotal in the eventual Xykon confrontation.

Again, Rich hasn't let us down yet. There have been shocking comics in the past that resolved themselves. Like a good novel or movie though, things are getting a lot darker with the possibility of breaking up the group. Pins & needles!

Great job, Rich!

[Smolder]

I see two ways out... break the hold by growing to giant size, or get vamped but then cast resurrection on himself.

[Whelk]

Here's hoping Durkon can use Thor's Might and break free. He might not be able to stand up straight but does that matter at this point?

If he gets vampirified, I'm going to be really bummed (from a personal liking Durkon standpoint, not a storytelling standpoint). Durkon has always been so solid in his ways and beliefs. That does make it more interesting for him to be forced into something he abhors, though. Still, it'd make me really sad.

Even if this turns out fulfilling his prophecies, hopefully he'll end up being saved somehow eventually. Hypothetically, if Durkon is destroyed as a vampire, does his soul get screwed and sent to the afterlife reserved for evil people because his body was forced into an Always Evil creature?

[JackRackham]

Thinking out loud here: Vampire Durkon (if it happens) would probably mean Vampire Belkar as well, I think. I mean, Malack keeps saying 'children,' and he doesn't seem like the type who'd want to raise an only child, right? Also, since he dismissed the spell (dismiss =/= dispel), I think Belkar and Mr. Scruffy are no longer protected from its effects.

[Mantine]

Considering that Durkon is currently in a grapple with Malak, V's only real choice is to blast them both with some sort of AoE spell. I could see Durkon telling V to do it, honestly. Then the part of the prophecy of Durkon returning home posthumously could become true. Plus I don't think his prophecy ever said he would rest eternal after returning home.

Or, disintegrate Malack.

[SaintRidley]

Unless you've read the Ravenloft adventure Thoughts of Darkness, which introduced Illithid vampires to the 2nd edition, and includes their origin.

I have not, but now I intend to.

[snikrept]

YUSSS vampire durkon! This'll be awesome if it works !!

[Raineh Daze]

Or, disintegrate Malack.

And this is why I keep asking about aiming and grappling.

Simply put: is there anything in the grappling rules that means you might hit the wrong target?

[mawexzon]

I hope that when this ends, at least one member of the Order of the Stick is a vampire.

[Amidus Drexel]

And this is why I keep asking about aiming and grappling.

Simply put: is there anything in the grappling rules that means you might hit the wrong target?

A 25 or 50% chance, I think... Lemme check the grapple rules.

[ScubaGoomba]

Is it possible that he's from the same family line as V's dragon? He said his clan is now all dead and any kind of death spell wouldn't exactly work on a vampire.

Also, I'm really digging on the possibility of Durkon going vamp and becoming a new enemy for the Order, even if that happens after he begrudgingly helps them defeat Tarquin and Malack due to all kinds of angst towards them for vamping him (Malack directly, Tarquin for getting together with the LG in the first place... plus evil Durkon may just have a lot of anger to let out against them). I think it would put the Order in a bigger moral issue than before and give them a real, personal relation to a villain. Nale, Tarquin, and Xykon have some level of relation to the Order, but the Order never really knew them, just that they were their antagonist. This is someone they all know and have gone through hell with. Could make for some interesting storytelling.

[ClockShock]

It's a type of fish.

(and on a triple word score)

[teratorn]

If Durkon is indeed turned what will happen to his holy symbol? If he holds it and presents it to himself does he recoil from himself?

[snikrept]

Also, Malack-is-secretly-a-snake viewpoint gains more evidence :smallbiggrin:

I suppose he could just have a really long tail...

[Draz74]

My prediction is that V will show up. Considering that Durkon is currently in a grapple with Malak, V's only real choice is to blast them both with some sort of AoE spell. I could see Durkon telling V to do it, honestly. Then the part of the prophecy of Durkon returning home posthumously could become true. Plus I don't think his prophecy ever said he would rest eternal after returning home.

Maybe V prepared Sunburst today (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html)? (I don't actually think V is going to show up at this fight.)

[Iranon]

... and be featured in Playdrake magazine? :)

[SaintRidley]

SO....Yuan-ti Halfblood? Abomination? Some sort of Naga? What are we looking at here? On a related note, I'm having trouble finding the template for a halfblood, as only the pureblood is given in the Monster Manual (Serpent Kingdoms was no help, either). Any ideas how this changes the game?

Halfbloods and Purebloods look pretty much human. Abominations have no legs, but ECL for Malack would be 35 at minimum. Nagas can't become vampires.

[Doxkid]

His own fault for dissing his comrads. (Seriously, only Belkar and Elan are Will liabilities. Haley is a thief she has anti-charm specific class powers.) :/

Is this the same Haley that dumped her trapskills because she wasn't using them?

Yes. She absolutely seems like the type of character that would prepare for making a save vs one specific school of magic, which none of her opponents ever use on her.

[Feddlefew]

I think I've worked out the main objection to Yuan-ti: way too many teeth for something snake-oriented. :smallbiggrin:

NOPE. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Python_gab_fbi.png)

(Yes, that is a second row of teeth growing out of the top of the mouth.)

[Rui]

OMG! :smalleek:

What will happen to Durkon now?!

[Sweet_Goddess]

And once again we see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

I find your lack of faith disturbing!!!

Wait... the combination to the Vampire Shield is 1 2 3 4 5? That's amazing, Xykon has the same combination on his Phylactery.



So, does anyone have any answers for these questions?


Are there any rules regarding targeting grappling combatants?
What's the LA for a Yuan-ti Abomination/Naga? Malack's ECL seems like it must be through the roof at this point.
Is it even possible that he's a Yuan-ti?


If Malack were a Yuan-Ti Abomination with exactly the minimum levels in Cleric to cast Harm, he would have 9 racial hit dice, 11 class levels, +7 LA from his race and +8 LA from vampire, putting him at ECL 35.

If Malack is a Yaun-ti, Durkon might be saved by the lawyers...

Chilingsworth has this right... if Malack is Yuan-Ti Abomination Snake-Faced-Snake-Body'd-Snake-Humanoid-Thing, then it will be a return of the Rules Lawyers... ala the Mind-Flayer Illithid Squidhead-Thing.



Or maybe some kind of homebrewed, mutant vampire form for lizardfolks.
After all, vampires are shapeshifters and those who were once human are often portrayed with intermediary forms between man and bat or wolf. I can see a reptile vampire having some half-snake form as an option.

This might be the a valid venue, but it totally throws the ECL discussions for a loop, since we have little to no room for basis to work from.



1. Ok, that was a brilliant move for Malack. Durkon loses a minimum of 1d4 Con, Malack gains some temporary hp, and if something doesn't happen in the next few rounds, Durkon is defeated. Of course, this is only the 5th comic of 9, so something will happen next round to tip the balance of power back towards the Order. Of course, the Giant knows that we know this, and wil probably have Durkon be defeated just to break expectation. On the other hand, the Giant knows that we know that he knows what to expect, so he may have made plans based on what we know he knows that we know he will do, and so on and so forth.
2. I knew from the general structure of this sequence that Malack would take back the advantage dramatically this comic, but I hadn't guessed that he'd be able to dispel the Ward. Seems obvious in retrospect, though.
3. If there really are nine strips in this sequence, then the pattern we have seen so far will end on a "Malack winning" strip, though it could also be that the 9th strip will do something else to herald the end of the battle, such as Xykon warping in or simply cutting away to Haley, Elan, and Roy having finally disarmed all the traps and seeing what's beyond.

1) Yes, and Yes, and yes, yes, and Yes. We know, but he knows that we know, but we know that he knows that we know, but he knows that we know that he knows that we know, but we know that he knows that we know that he knows that we know, but he knows we know that he knows that we know that he knows that we know, but do we know that he knows we know that he knows that we know that he knows that we know?

2) SURPRISE!!!!


3) Nah, we have other twists that we're not seeing that are beyond our ability to predict... we may get holy intervention from 3 or 4 different pantheons here (Nergal for Malack, Thor for Durkon and Haley, the Twelve Animals for Scruffy, Banjo for Belkar and Elan)



Wow, looks like Tarquin's not the only one who goes easy on the OOTS: Malack could have owned Durkon at any time by dismissing the Ward and then going for a grapple. What would be his ECL if he's a Naga instead of a Yuan-Ti, out of curiosity?

Naga LA is +1... so it would be minor




And another (final?) twist in the Durkon - Malack struggle! It was a good effort by our bearded friend, much closer than anyone expected.
Oh, and Malack doesn't have legs. Possibly the most important part of this update, actually.
EDIT: And how does one pronounce "Xxzerkqei"? Answer: With great difficulty.

Is this your key (all forced together... isthisyourkey)



Oooh, Thor's Might could work. Durkon said the ceiling was too low for it before, but if he's not upright...

Since everyone was predicting it in the last thread, I predict an inversion... Thor's Might... slamming Malack through the ceiling and out into the sun... then dispelling the sun protection... and allowing the sun to Rule of Dramatic, cure him and Belkar of the Vampire effects since they weren't fully turned.

[Amidus Drexel]

And this is why I keep asking about aiming and grappling.

Simply put: is there anything in the grappling rules that means you might hit the wrong target?

Posting again instead of editing so you'll actually see it...

No, it doesn't (at least, I didn't find any), although ranged attacks take a -4 penalty.

[Canisius]

Still, it'd make me really sad.

As a few folks have taught me, destroying Count Durkon and rezzing him could bring back the lovable, smelly dwarf some time in the future. I'm also a huge Durkon fan.


Even if this turns out fulfilling his prophecies, hopefully he'll end up being saved somehow eventually. Hypothetically, if Durkon is destroyed as a vampire, does his soul get screwed and sent to the afterlife reserved for evil people because his body was forced into an Always Evil creature?

I wasn't able to follow it very well since I haven't played much D&D, but there's a thread in this comment section that explains how this works.

[Porthos]

Chilingsworth has this right... if Malack is Yuan-Ti Abomination Snake-Faced-Snake-Body'd-Snake-Humanoid-Thing, then it will be a return of the Rules Lawyers... ala the Mind-Flayer Illithid Squidhead-Thing.

The lawyers didn't stop these folks from showing up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html). :smallwink:

I wouldn't count on things that happened during the beginning of the comic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness) to apply MUCH MUCH later.

[Clericzilla]

I do love how in the last panel Malack doesn't go "Mwuahahaha I'm Evil and I WIN" but goes for the "Compromise" of sorts.

I think Malack doesn't want Durkon as a "child" but as a friend again. New theory is ... Malack will turn Durkon into a vampire then tell him NOT to kill himself or do anything that will directly lead to his death due to being a vampire (like walking into a Pelor church and saying "yo I be undead") but to continue on with his life until he understands Malack's point of view on being a vampire... So that maybe one day Malack and Durkon can be friends again. Kick in the teeth to the "evil people are always evil" thinkers.

[Caesar]

I think I've worked out the main objection to Yuan-ti: way too many teeth for something snake-oriented. :smallbiggrin:

snakes have plenty of teeth. its not just two fangs.

Edit: ninja'd, and by a guy with an anatomical drawing.

[Incom]

If V walked in there'd be three mass murderers (for unrelated reasons) in the same room. How often does that happen? (Don't answer that, 'cause RWP is banned, it's just rhetorical.)

Anyway, application of the vampire template turns one evil. But how so?

via https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a


"Vampire" is a fairly common acquired template among adventurers. When an adventuring party is attacked by a vampire, those slain by its special abilities may rise as vampires themselves if the proper measures are not taken. If the vampire template is applied to such a character, she would appear to be dead for a time, then return to a tenuous life, slowly succumbing to the seductive lure of the vampire's hunger, sharpened senses, and evil nature.

It looks like the new vampire is immediately mechanically evil, but it may take time for the behavioral effects associated to kick in.

So assuming Durkon is not made into Malack's thrall (and it looks like Durkon doesn't get a save against mind control so this is unlikely, unless Malack does shenanigans) he'd probably just be the new Belkar.

Actually, looking at that link: could the template class apply to Malack? That is, maybe he only has part of the vampire template and thus doesn't have the full LA?

[Raineh Daze]

I haven't said this yet, but I'm with those that think intervention would be... wrong. It would be cheap; despite the entire long fight, Durkon would get away with damage that can be fixed with a 4th level spell (that he may very well have prepared) and there'd be so much lost potential.

Especially if it's Team Evil interrupting this. That timing would be too convenient.

[Canisius]

I hope that when this ends, at least one member of the Order of the Stick is a vampire.

Boo - I disapprove.

Though I do think it's very possible that an undead OOTS may be the Ace in the Hole for the eventual Xykon confrontation.

[Roland Itiative]

HOLY S**T, MAN!

Malack really is legless!

But really, nothing really unexpected came out of this one, but still a good read. We can't really have an entire fight be made of nothing but awesomeness, right? :smalltongue:

Wondering if the back-and-forth of who's winning and who's losing will end now, with the next page showing Durkon being turned into a vamp, or if anything else will happen to turn the tides yet again (V, maybe? Can't see Durkon getting out of this on his own anymore, and Belkar will probably be out of commission for a little while longer).

[Amidus Drexel]

I'm guessing the next comic cuts away to the rest of the party. It's perfect for dramatic tension, and no one has to show up to twist the vampire dilemma any more than it is already.

[Incom]

Is this your key (all forced together... isthisyourkey)

.......

You are brilliant.

[137beth]

Well, it was looking sort of suspicious that an epic level caster was having trouble against Durkon...

And now we see why!

[Shred-Bot]

I just realized... as a vampire, Durkon won't be able to drink alcohol.

He can... he'll just have to feed on really drunk people. (aka other dwarves)

[mawexzon]

Boo - I disapprove.



Imagine the posibilities Character development potential.

[Porthos]

If V walked in there'd be three mass murderers (for unrelated reasons) in the same room. How often does that happen? (Don't answer that, 'cause RWP is banned, it's just rhetorical.)

Anyway, application of the vampire template turns one evil. But how so?

via https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a



It looks like the new vampire is immediately mechanically evil, but it may take time for the behavioral effects associated to kick in.

That's an alternate take that treats a Template as being gained slowly via class levels ala Savage Species. For instance, in that case, Durkon doesn't actually become evil (and Undead for that matter) until seven full levels of the Vampire 'class'.

[R. Shackleford]

Holy crap, I approve, Ser Giant.

[Shred-Bot]

Did I miss the part where Leeky Windstaff did?
Also, yuck. :P

It was all over the erotic fanfic sites! :P

[SaintRidley]

I haven't said this yet, but I'm with those that think intervention would be... wrong. It would be cheap; despite the entire long fight, Durkon would get away with damage that can be fixed with a 4th level spell (that he may very well have prepared) and there'd be so much lost potential.

Especially if it's Team Evil interrupting this. That timing would be too convenient.

Agreed. Having one twist to save a character from vampirization is fine, but doing it twice in the same sequence is a little eh.

[stevem]

Thinking out loud here: Vampire Durkon (if it happens) would probably mean Vampire Belkar as well, I think. I mean, Malack keeps saying 'children,' and he doesn't seem like the type who'd want to raise an only child, right? Also, since he dismissed the spell (dismiss =/= dispel), I think Belkar and Mr. Scruffy are no longer protected from its effects.

I think Malack would vamp Belkar if he vamps Durkon as:

1. He constantly refers to "children".
2. He wants Durkon and Durkon is fighting for Belkar (from Malack's perspective) so these three "friends" should become on big dysfunctional family.
3. Malack can sire (while still dominating) 2x his own HD in kids, which means that Belkar and Durkon would pretty much bring him up to max.
4. Siring two members of the OotS means he can send them back to infiltrate them, essentially running the party. All he has to do is teach Durkon Protection from Daylight. He might even be able to teach Belkar, as his wisdom will go up and he'll be able to cast spells.
5. Vamping Durkon and Belkar means their respective abilities to resist Xykon will be greatly increased.
6. With Durkon and Belkar as vamps, he'll be in a better position to shut Tarquin up (sire more kids) while bringing this frivolous adventure to a conclusion (as his position on the power grid will have greatly increased).
7. It would be rude to ignore the gifts Negral has placed before him.

[Holammer]

The past few strips have been brilliant. Slyly setup misdirections thrown left and right catching most of us off-guard. Just a few strips ago many expected and speculated that Belkar would be turned into a vampire. Now it's (probably) Durkon. We shall see...
The giant plays us like a fiddle! :smallwink:

[ManuelSacha]

I think he's gonna bite it.

...I'll show miself out.

[Mantine]

She absolutely seems like the type of character that would prepare for making a save vs one specific school of magic, which none of her opponents ever use on her.

Huh, what are you talking about?

[Shred-Bot]

And so Legwatch 2013 ends... no way we could see that much tail without even a hint of leg.

[Emmit Svenson]

I think Malack would vamp Belkar if he vamps Durkon...Malack can sire (while still dominating) 2x his own HD in kids, which means that Belkar and Durkon would pretty much bring him up to max...

They'd put him over max, I'm pretty sure. I think Belkar's destined to be a Renfield.

[Incom]

That's a alternate take that treats a Template as being gained slowly via class levels ala Savage Species. For instance, in that case, Durkon doesn't actually become evil (and Undead for that matter) until seven full levels of the Vampire 'class'.

It is, however, Wizards-official, so...

That is a good point though.

I guess we'll just have to see? It's not guaranteed that Durkon gets vamped anyway.

[Felyndiira]

It is quite unfortunate that Freedom of Movement requires a somatic component to cast =p.

[Raineh Daze]

It is quite unfortunate that Freedom of Movement requires a somatic component to cast =p.

Not to mention ironic.:smallbiggrin:

[JackRackham]

Naga LA is +1... so it would be minor


Not exactly. It may be +1 LA, but Nagas have a butt-load of racial HD.

[Blaknic]

Huh, what are you talking about?

I think that sarcasm was in effect there. That post also brought up that Haley didn't even put points in Search- presumably because she hadn't been using it. I think the poster was saying that she has had no real reason beyond extreme planning and mild paranoia to get those features, and so she likely hasn't.

My two cents on that are that she hasn't been shown to have them, and pulling them out of nowhere would be an interesting narrative choice, but not one I'd make.

[Sweet_Goddess]

The lawyers didn't stop these folks from showing up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html). :smallwink:
I wouldn't count on things that happened during the beginning of the comic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness) to apply MUCH MUCH later.

Death Knight... um... not able to be copyrighted/trademarked (As seen with the fact it is in WoW)

Huecuva... okay, this one could have been, except it was long ago forfeited, so it is open game content... available for public use.

Eye of Fear and Flame... again, just a chain of words, which is not very distinctive and too easily accidentally used by anyone to be approved for a intellectual property


Yuan-Ti, however, aren't open game content, their name and likeness is protected property, and therefore the joke can be re-vamped!!!


If V walked in there'd be three mass murderers (for unrelated reasons) in the same room. How often does that happen? (Don't answer that, 'cause RWP is banned, it's just rhetorical.)
Anyway, application of the vampire template turns one evil. But how so?
via https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
It looks like the new vampire is immediately mechanically evil, but it may take time for the behavioral effects associated to kick in.
So assuming Durkon is not made into Malack's thrall (and it looks like Durkon doesn't get a save against mind control so this is unlikely, unless Malack does shenanigans) he'd probably just be the new Belkar.
Actually, looking at that link: could the template class apply to Malack? That is, maybe he only has part of the vampire template and thus doesn't have the full LA?

I believe the issue is that when made a Vampire, your body continues, but your soul is gone... so you can be undead... no soul means you are evil, and can't dance or get into music.

[DoctorIllithid]

Ah, I love it when a villain plans stuff like this. It warms my heart.

It's a shame Malack is set on killing a thousand people per day eventually. Knocks him to roughly an 8.5 on my personal villain likability-meter.

[Bird]

Keep in mind it takes 1d4 days after burial for a new vampire to rise. So, if Durkon is to become a vampire, he'll have to be out of play for a while first.

This was a great strip. I'm not really expecting it, but I hope Durkon does become a vampire, just because it would add such a strange and unpredictable energy to the comic. (Though it would really risk melodrama, I admit.)

[JackRackham]

Technically, if Durkon called in the lawyers, Malack would simply have to make some joke about the race, or parody it in some way, in order to stay. Bottom line: I'm not sure we're going to get a 100% 'This is what Malack is.'

[SlashDash]

Ummm.... Guys... Have you learned NOTHING from the Giant?
Expect the unexpected... If you're all guessing that he's gonna get vamped he's probably not :smallsmile:


Especially after this
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html
Elan has a plan that involves Durkon somehow... I highly doubt the Giant slapped that in without having a clear thought on what it is and that vamp Durkon would have a part in it...


I'm still betting on Durkon winning.

How? Good question. If Malack is grappling Durkon, doesn't that mean that he can't take any other action? Specifically, he can't attempt to dominate Belkar (requires standard action).

Durkon can easily dismiss the hold person over Belkar and have our not-so-friendly Ranger\Barbarian come to the rescue.

Plus there's the question of how does Malack's backdoor work? Does it dismiss the entire spell or just those in ear shot?)

[Felyndiira]

Ummm.... Guys... Have you learned NOTHING from the Giant?
Expect the unexpected... If you're all guessing that he's gonna get vamped he's probably not :smallsmile:

If every single comic has to be about the unexpected happening, the plot of OotS would not have gone anywhere :smalltongue:.

[JackRackham]

Ummm.... Guys... Have you learned NOTHING from the Giant?
Expect the unexpected... If you're all guessing that he's gonna get vamped he's probably not :smallsmile:


Especially after this
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html
Elan has a plan that involves Durkon somehow... I highly doubt the Giant slapped that in without having a clear thought on what it is and that vamp Durkon would have a part in it...


I'm still betting on Durkon winning.

How? Good question. If Malack is grappling Durkon, doesn't that mean that he can't take any other action? Specifically, he can't attempt to dominate Belkar (requires standard action).

Durkon can easily dismiss the hold person over Belkar and have our not-so-friendly Ranger\Barbarian come to the rescue.

Plus there's the question of how does Malack's backdoor work? Does it dismiss the entire spell or just those in ear shot?)

He can take all the actions he wants as long as they don't use his hands. That's why he's able to drain him. That's why he or Durkon could cast a spell that didn't require a somatic component, etc.

[Porthos]

Yuan-Ti, however, aren't open game content, their name and likeness is protected property, and therefore the joke can be re-vamped!!!

There's been plenty of non-OGL stuff in the comic. Its presence has even been directly addressed. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html) :smallamused:

Moreover, on a storytelling point of view, solving a climatic battle scene with a cheap gag like that just wouldn't work. IMO, at least.

Mr. Jones and Mr. Rodriguez ain't showing up to save the day here.

[oppyu]

Technically, if Durkon called in the lawyers, Malack would simply have to make some joke about the race, or parody it in some way, in order to stay. Bottom line: I'm not sure we're going to get a 100% 'This is what Malack is.'
Or, you know, the incredibly powerful vampire cleric could kill the lawyers. Actually, that would be pretty awesome.

[WoLong]

I just realized... as a vampire, Durkon won't be able to drink alcohol.

Truly, this is the saddest thing ever.

[Sweet_Goddess]

I think that sarcasm was in effect there. That post also brought up that Haley didn't even put points in Search- presumably because she hadn't been using it. I think the poster was saying that she has had no real reason beyond extreme planning and mild paranoia to get those features, and so she likely hasn't.

My two cents on that are that she hasn't been shown to have them, and pulling them out of nowhere would be an interesting narrative choice, but not one I'd make.

Mass Paranoia? Have you met her father? Mass Paranoia is a way of life for them.

[Nephrahim]

Keep in mind it takes 1d4 days after burial for a new vampire to rise. So, if Durkon is to become a vampire, he'll have to be out of play for a while first.

This was a great strip. I'm not really expecting it, but I hope Durkon does become a vampire, just because it would add such a strange and unpredictable energy to the comic. (Though it would really risk melodrama, I admit.)

No, if he drains Durkon's Con to 0, he immidetely becomes a vampire.

[King of Nowhere]

I'm wondering, if durkon get vampirized, he would not become automatically evil. he's likely to keep most of his current personality. malack himself, while being definitely evil, is more the punch-clock kind of villain than a really nasty person. his evilness is in the service of his god. durkon serving a good god, it should make a difference.

Being vampirized would also fit the prophecy about coming home postumously.
However, I won't bet on it. We were all sure belkar would be vampirized a few strips ago, after all.

[JackRackham]

Truly, this is the saddest thing ever. (This quote referred to another about how Durkon wouldn't be able to drink alcohol)

Meh. He's been in human lands for better than a decade without a decent ale. What's another unending undeath for a good dwarf?

[TRH]

Ummm.... Guys... Have you learned NOTHING from the Giant?
Expect the unexpected... If you're all guessing that he's gonna get vamped he's probably not :smallsmile:


Especially after this
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html
Elan has a plan that involves Durkon somehow... I highly doubt the Giant slapped that in without having a clear thought on what it is and that vamp Durkon would have a part in it...


I'm still betting on Durkon winning.

How? Good question. If Malack is grappling Durkon, doesn't that mean that he can't take any other action? Specifically, he can't attempt to dominate Belkar (requires standard action).

Durkon can easily dismiss the hold person over Belkar and have our not-so-friendly Ranger\Barbarian come to the rescue.

Plus there's the question of how does Malack's backdoor work? Does it dismiss the entire spell or just those in ear shot?)

No good; the domination effect can't be dispelled and lasts 1 day per level, so Belkar's still dominated right now. Besides, I'm pretty sure a vampire's gaze is also a free action, so he could probably use it even while grappling.

[snikrept]

Wouldn't Vampire Durkon be immune to Xykon's favorite attack, namely Energy Drain?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

No! Not Durkon!

O buddy Durkon, of the mighty beard

Your light is gone, it must be fear'd

from a world of almonds and nasty trees

and cajuns and ice cream and lovely threes

you were a constant, so stable and true

but now you're gone, we have no clue

our arboreal tormentors that haunt our dreams

and laugh at all our futile screams

sleep easier now that you are gone

Malack, Malack, what have you done

Oh Durkon, Durkon Thundershield

your memory shall never yield!

[Canisius]

No good; the domination effect can't be dispelled and lasts 1 day per level, so Belkar's still dominated right now. Besides, I'm pretty sure a vampire's gaze is also a free action, so he could probably use it even while grappling.

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess it's hello to Count Durkon.

[Toper]

This comic makes me so worried. As the thread says, :smalleek:.

I am also extremely glad we get more comics soon.

I can't imagine the comic with Durkon as an evil vampire, no matter how well it would fit with the Oracle's prophecy. The Order would be too, too different. And I don't know why Rich would do it; if this was a TV show it could be a stupid stunt for shock value, but here it wouldn't happen without a reason.

Of course, there could be reasons I don't know about. But for now I'm just going to hope and trust and maybe say a little prayer to Thor for Durkon's rescue and protection. OK, Thor? You listening? Thanks.

[SaintRidley]

Durkon can easily dismiss the hold person over Belkar and have our not-so-friendly Ranger\Barbarian come to the rescue.

Belkar is stuck under Malack's control for twelve days, per the caster level of a vampire's dominating gaze. He doesn't have to maintain eye contact to maintain the domination.

[Incom]

Guys I can't believe I missed this.

Durkon's gonna die, which we know from the Oracle. And go to the LG afterlife, presumably. (Maybe he'll get vamped and still be floating around physically, but let's say his soul goes to the mountain--either separately, or when his vampire body is destroyed.)

Now who else is in the LG afterlife that we know of. Roy's family.....

...and Roy's Archon.

Who we know was told to go work on some sort of plan, which we didn't get to hear about. And Roy knew that Durkon's death was imminent if they didn't stop Xykon at Girard's Gate.

Prediction: Roy's Archon's plan has something to do with posthumous Durkon.

[Sweet_Goddess]

There's been plenty of non-OGL stuff in the comic. Its presence has even been directly addressed. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html) :smallamused:

Moreover, on a storytelling point of view, solving a climatic battle scene with a cheap gag like that just wouldn't work. IMO, at least.

Mr. Jones and Mr. Rodriguez ain't showing up to save the day here.

Z is a parody though, so he fulfills that stipulation... and isn't that how Z got dragged off in the first place? Solving a climatic battle with a cheap gag?

All Durkon has to do is get Malack to monologue some more and mention his race name. By explicitly identifying himself as one, he ceases to be ambiguous and being a race with a Vampire template isn't a parody of the race.

----------------------------------------------------

Also, maybe the backdoor isn't earshot, it is target? So he has to get each one individually... and since Durkon and Malack are in combat, technically they block LOS to one another and nearby opponents... you can't make ranged attacks out of melee, which includes gaze attacks, so Belkar can't be vampire gazed anymore...


Guys I can't believe I missed this.

Durkon's gonna die, which we know from the Oracle. And go to the LG afterlife, presumably. (Maybe he'll get vamped and still be floating around physically, but let's say his soul goes to the mountain--either separately, or when his vampire body is destroyed.)

Now who else is in the LG afterlife that we know of. Roy's family.....

...and Roy's Archon.

Who we know was told to go work on some sort of plan, which we didn't get to hear about. And Roy knew that Durkon's death was imminent if they didn't stop Xykon at Girard's Gate.

Prediction: Roy's Archon's plan has something to do with posthumous Durkon.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

You could be very right...

[AutomatedTeller]

I did not see that coming.

Am guessing that the cat saves the day. Dunno how, but it will.

Or V. V showing up would be very good right now.