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View Full Version : Explain what happened plz



kudaranai
2013-03-03, 08:02 AM
I Don't understand what happened

He used Dispell magic and it didnt work?

and then he did a back door to what spell exactly?

im confused

Bowbreaker
2013-03-03, 08:09 AM
He helped Durkon research a Mass Ward Undead spell. Being undead himself though, Malack also built in a backdoor in the form of a "word" that cancels out the spell.

EDIT: I have a question myself though. How does backdooring a jointly researched spell work, 3.5 rulewise?

Roland Itiative
2013-03-03, 08:46 AM
EDIT: I have a question myself though. How does backdooring a jointly researched spell work, 3.5 rulewise?
The only proper rules for developing spells (as far as the SRD goes) are for epic spells, so the whole Mass Death Ward thing is 100% houseruled.

Kish
2013-03-03, 08:49 AM
He used Dispell magic and it didnt work?

Dispel Magic (and the higher level versions) use a caster level check, it's not guaranteed to work. Malack's cleric level is presumably lower than Durkon's.

Winter
2013-03-03, 08:49 AM
He used Dispell magic and it didnt work?

Durkon researched a "Mass" version of Death Ward with the help of Malack. He did that because he knows that Xykon likes to use "Energy Drain". Death Ward protects from Negative Energy Effects.
A mass version is nice to protect the entire party.

Malack helped Durkon with the research, but was unsure if he could trust Durkon (a LG cleric he liked, but that he also just met). So he built in a Backdoor to easily be able to dispell the effect with a codeword.

When they fought, Malack tried to Dispel the effect on Durkon with a normal Dispel Magic, but as Durkon seems to have a much higher level than Malack, the Dispel did not work (Durkon's Death Ward is stronger than Malack's Dispel).
When the fight really got intense, Malack decided to use his Backdoor-codeword to remove the spell from Durkon.

This is where we stand at the moment.

Bulldog Psion
2013-03-03, 08:49 AM
He helped Durkon research a Mass Ward Undead spell. Being undead himself though, Malack also built in a backdoor in the form of a "word" that cancels out the spell.

EDIT: I have a question myself though. How does backdooring a jointly researched spell work, 3.5 rulewise?

Anyway, I believe Malack researched the spell himself (i.e. created it). Then he taught Durkon how to cast it.

It's easy to put a back door in if the person you taught doesn't even really know what went into making the spell.

Winter
2013-03-03, 08:54 AM
Anyway, I believe Malack researched the spell himself (i.e. created it). Then he taught Durkon how to cast it.

It's easy to put a back door in if the person you taught doesn't even really know what went into making the spell.

Given how it developed now, I think it very possible that Malack taught Durkon the theory just slightly wrong, so whatever Durkon was doing wasn't going to work, so Malack could "help" him by teaching him the full spell so Durkon would not realize there was a backdoor.

All that underlines again is my impression that Durkon is a pretty naive character. ;)

Lvl45DM!
2013-03-03, 09:00 AM
Dispel Magic is a luck based roll. If you fail the roll you don't dispel. Someone puts up a Wall of Fire, you want to get rid of it, you cast Dispel Magic and hope to roll well enough. Higher level casters find it easier but theres always a bit of luck.

Dismissing a spell is something a caster can do to their own spell usually. Say you cast that Wall of Fire that was in your way and you wanted it down. You snap your fingers and POOF its down.

What Malack did was change the spell so that HE always had the ability to dismiss it as if HE cast the spell no matter who ACTUALLY had cast that spell.

...I think. I only play 1st Edition the rules are different there

EDIT: Damn i got Durkon'd alot

Bulldog Psion
2013-03-03, 09:19 AM
I wonder if the word he said is "Dismiss" in the language of his long-gone tribe.

kudaranai
2013-03-03, 09:25 AM
why doesnt he use divine power + Righteous might?

Shale
2013-03-03, 09:38 AM
why doesnt he use divine power + Righteous might?

Because, in the words of Rich,


My job is to entertain, not to showcase perfect D&D tactics.

Kish
2013-03-03, 09:50 AM
why doesnt he use divine power + Righteous might?
Aside from the fact that both of them are clerics, not members of a super cleric/favored soul prestige class who can cast any cleric spell at any time,
aside from the fact that Malack does have Divine Power active,
the question is as clear as mud. Why doesn't which one use Divine Power and Righteous Might to do what?

Winter
2013-03-03, 09:51 AM
why doesnt he use divine power + Righteous might?

He's not using Divine Power because he probably does not have memorised it. Note that Durkon knows he has already two melee fighters in his group (Roy, Belkar), Elan might even be considered a third melee-er. Why should he become the fourth?

He is not using Righteous Might ("Thor's Might" for him) because the room is not big enough. This is stated in-comic (#875).

MeanMrsMustard
2013-03-03, 01:01 PM
I wonder if the word he said is "Dismiss" in the language of his long-gone tribe.
This is now my headcanon.

Psyren
2013-03-03, 03:05 PM
Remember that Durkon's researched MDW is a level lower than the real version from SpC (7th rather than 8th level. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11878742&postcount=50)) So it's reasonable to expect that this homebrew version would have a disadvantage to balance it - say, a backdoor word that ends the effect.

So the Giant has done nothing wrong here at all; even his homebrew makes sense in the context of the game.

Porthos
2013-03-03, 03:17 PM
The only proper rules for developing spells (as far as the SRD goes) are for epic spells, so the whole Mass Death Ward thing is 100% houseruled.

But there are rules for creating spells in the DMG. Mostly under the category of Does It Pass The Eyeball Test. :smallwink:

Winter
2013-03-03, 04:18 PM
So the Giant has done nothing wrong here at all; even his homebrew makes sense in the context of the game.

Apart from the fact the mishap with the level confusion was unintentional. So he unintentionally did the right thing. Awesome. :smallbiggrin: