3.5 to Pathfinder

[Psycho Yuffie]

I DM a group every other week. After reading through the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, I really enjoyed the changes they made. I have some minor gripes, but the majority of the game looks interesting. I bought the Rulebook as a birthday gift to myself and I want to transition my group from 3.5 to Pathfinder. Some are a bit less enthused than others.

One of my female players is worried about needing to learn a bunch of new rules. I told her that there isn't much of a difference between 3.5 and Pathfinder, but the little changes will probably seem like mountain to her.

The other one is a minmaxer. He really enjoys coming up with broken character concepts. Despite this, he is a good guy and he does occasionally hold himself back and make a somewhat standard character. I always have to crank up the encounter difficulties with him. It's a bit of a challenge to keep him entertained while not wiping the rest of the party.

Is there anything I can do to coax them over to Pathfinder?

[Slipperychicken]

Ask them to just try the system, as it's essentially an update to 3.5, streamlining some things (skills, combat maneuvers, fixed some spells) but not changing too much. If they don't like PF, they don't have to play it.

You can also start by playing "3.P", in which you introduce some PF mechanics as houserules, and add PF classes, feats, and other material to the game. Many groups do this, and it works surprisingly well (I actually played in a 3.P game, it's pretty much backwards compatible and PF classes blend in more or less seamlessly).

[Coidzor]

Well, there's always blending them, but you might take a look at Saph's guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7609693), which may provide you with some ideas.

As far as the minmaxer and challenging him without slaughtering the others, have you heard of the tier (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0) system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269440)and some of the thoughts about how to address the issue at least on the side of what the characters are capable of, even if what the players actually do is a more fiddly social engineering problem?

[inuyasha]

Im like this with 3.0 and 3.5 I play 3.0 but i use some 3.5 things like certain buffed spells, ebberon (teehee :D) and some random books. Yea just use stuff from PF as houserules and it should work fine

[Sajiri]

The changes aren't really that big of a deal. As said, a lot is just streamlined and things are grouped together. For example, multiple skills in 3.5 have been combined into 'perception.' If you have a player who's worried about learning new rules, I think PF is far far easier to keep track of.

There are rules out there for converting 3.5 content to PF too, so if there are features from 3.5 you miss, like certain classes, you can always convert and incorporate them into pathfinder.

My DM uses pathfinder, and he allows us to bring any 3.5 content to him we want to be converted and we use it.

[Psycho Yuffie]

I have been thinking about blending the two for a few days, but I wasn't 100% sure if it was possible.

[Coidzor]

I have been thinking about blending the two for a few days, but I wasn't 100% sure if it was possible.

Oh, yeah, it'll blend. Depends on how exactly you want to go about doing so, really. Do you want to graft some of the PF rules onto 3.5's chassis? Do you want to substitute the core rules of PF except where you prefer the mechanics of 3.5?

A fair number of people have posted conversions and porting that they've done that you can look over to consider what to do in specific cases, mostly classes.

Just... don't use the PF rules for tumbling. :smalleek: At least not without modification.

[Urpriest]

For the minmaxer, show him the Alchemist. It's not necessarily overpowered in an absolute sense, but it's very modular and capable and there's a lot you can do with it as an optimizer.

[Certified]

Rip the bandage off.

At the onset of the next campaign, start fresh with Core Pathfinder only. Introducing Pathfinder rule changes without the rest of the updates may turn off players worries about a learning curve. There is also so many things that can break when blending Feats for your Munchkin player it may sour other players thinking this is the normal power level, not seeing that the power really comes from blending 3.5 and PF feats.

When you start the new game encourage players to look at the Archetypes, and new Base Classes, let them know that Prestige Classes are not nearly as important as they were. Although, they are there for those that want them. This can appeal to players worried about complexity as everything is all in one class. Point out that Fats are now every other Level, this generally makes the munchkin types smile.

This leaves you just the rules updates to overcome but those should feel relatively minor as people explore the new shiny things. It is important that you as the DM are very familiar with the changes though. be ready to explain new rules multiple times and try not to get frustrated. Also, make sure that casters read their spells very closely and do not assume they do exactly what they expect.

This gives everyone a clean break, and fresh start. If you don't normally, start at Level 1, don't jump into higher level play. However, you may use the fast track for experience so it goes by quickly while players adjust to the changes.

[Carth]

I'm a long time 3.5er that has recently had a couple of my groups dabble in Pathfinder. There are some changes that are good, some that are bad, but it doesn't play all that differently, the changes aren't difficult to adjust to. The thing I dislike the most is that if you're restricted to Pathfinder material only, there's a lot less to choose from, even if you're just looking for fluff information.

[Slipperychicken]

The thing I dislike the most is that if you're restricted to Pathfinder material only, there's a lot less to choose from, even if you're just looking for fluff information.

This is the main reason to blend them. 3.5's strength is in it's wealth of character options -you can build damn near anything 3.5. Pathfinder adds more character options (and the changes amount to a set of decent houserules) since WotC stopped printing 3.5.

[Psycho Yuffie]

I don't like the idea of only using Pathfinder stuff myself. There are a lot of cool classes and feats that are still compatible that you would be giving up. Nah, I would never do that. What I was thinking for 3.5 classes is that people would still need to use Pathfinder races, character feat progression, and experience. Classes and feats can be shown to me and be approved when necessary.

[navar100]

Have the players use Pathfinder classes but 3E's feats. The feats are the big deal. Some people who otherwise like Pathfinder just can't get past the changes to Power Attack and Tripping. The class changes are easy enough to understand, and they only need worry about it one level at a time. Aside from the paladin having to get used to his new and improved Smite Evil and the druid caring about his physical ability scores, the class changes are smooth. You can have NPCs, friend & foe, use Pathfinder feats so that players can see them in action.