The Fleshraker conundrum...

[ddude987]

Hello All,
So friends and I are planning on playing a campaign from levels 21-40. We are going by table 5-1 WBL in the DMG. I am going to be playing DW kobold Druid 20/Master of Many Forms 1 to start. After fully gearing myself out I still had a huge amount of money so I decided to do something fun...

I commissioned another PC (our backstories involve each other and our PCs have been good friends) to create my own demiplane and then I took Fleshraker Dinosaurs there and bred them. I created magic items that can use Awaken 1/day and cast Awaken myself on the first few Fleshrakers. I am going to indoctrinate them into a religion I invent and teach them I am their races maker and god. The magic items for Awaken will be given to the clerical leaders of the church run by the dinosaurs.

Can my PC now order the dinosaurs to basically do whatever I want them to? Can I have some of them travel with me and help me adventuring? Do I need to make dip checks to have them follow me? The campaign isn't starting for a little while but I am trying to iron out how these things would work. My DM usually follows RAW. Answers by RAW (if there are any) and also if you were a DM and this happened how would you handle it? Thanks!

[Ganorenas]

As awakened dinosaurs I imagine they would be treated like any other monstrous race, so being their deity would let you tell them as you please, maybe treat them as fanatics on the diplomacy table, due to how they view you.

Sounds like a beautiful idea btw, love the idea of dinosaurs being intelligent and ruling their own plane, reminds me of Dinotopia

Will you be a major player in their Government?
Just the deity that comes down and makes their lives better (or worse) now and then?

Do you assume fleshraker form to mingle with them?

Fun fun

[ddude987]

As awakened dinosaurs I imagine they would be treated like any other monstrous race, so being their deity would let you tell them as you please, maybe treat them as fanatics on the diplomacy table, due to how they view you.

Sounds like a beautiful idea btw, love the idea of dinosaurs being intelligent and ruling their own plane, reminds me of Dinotopia

Will you be a major player in their Government?
Just the deity that comes down and makes their lives better (or worse) now and then?

Do you assume fleshraker form to mingle with them?

Fun fun

What book is fanatics from for diplomacy?
Also I haven't thought of those other things. It sounds awesome! I need to come up with some stuff for their religion which will also be the government.

[Urpriest]

They're people. People who have reason to think of you as semi-divine, but people nonetheless. They will respond as people would.

[ddude987]

They're people. People who have reason to think of you as semi-divine, but people nonetheless. They will respond as people would.

Which is how?

[ngilop]

I would guess the same way people deal with other deities.

take a look at the real world and how us real life humans deal with higher powers


some will respect and worship, soem will fear and worship, some will deny your divinity at all.

I thought about actually typign out the millions upon millions of reactions one could get as a diety, but serisouly you ( hopefully) should already know how any race of beings treat a supposed deity.

[awa]

by raw you would need diplomacy and bluff. diplomacy to get them to do what you want and bluff to convince them your a god.

What would i do as a dm it might work for awhile but eventually it would fall apart once they realized you had been lying to them the whole time. But then again i think the game starts to break down around level 8 by level 21+ the difference between you and a god is just a matter of degree and hitting the diplomacy dc to turn a friendly target in to a fanatic is trivial if your willing to work at it.

[Urpriest]

I would guess the same way people deal with other deities.

take a look at the real world and how us real life humans deal with higher powers


some will respect and worship, soem will fear and worship, some will deny your divinity at all.

I thought about actually typign out the millions upon millions of reactions one could get as a diety, but serisouly you ( hopefully) should already know how any race of beings treat a supposed deity.

Another point is that, if you act divine and these guys adventure with you then they'll see you get hurt, make mistakes, get messy etc., just like a mortal. So that's a risk.

[ddude987]

by raw you would need diplomacy and bluff. diplomacy to get them to do what you want and bluff to convince them your a god.

What would i do as a dm it might work for awhile but eventually it would fall apart once they realized you had been lying to them the whole time. But then again i think the game starts to break down around level 8 by level 21+ the difference between you and a god is just a matter of degree and hitting the diplomacy dc to turn a friendly target in to a fanatic is trivial if your willing to work at it.

Perhaps I could flavor is as I am their overlord or something if flavoring it as them treating me as a god causes problems.

[ButtSoup]

They'll have whatever wisdom fleshrakers start with and sense motive will be minimal. I think bluffing with a few spells for theatrics would be enough. I have a feeling that if you do things right, a lot of the believability bonuses to bluff will come into play.

[Mnemnosyne]

Making them think of you as a god seems risky for little benefit, unless you're trying to use them to actually become a god by having enough people worship you. In any other case, you're running the risk of them feeling deceived and betrayed when they discover that you're not actually a god at all.

Far better to be reasonably honest with them. If you help them out, are consistently looking out for them and their best interests, and otherwise give them no reason to turn on you, the majority of them should follow you willingly, especially since they were already friendly from awaken. You can use epic diplomacy or perform checks to make them fanatic - you just need a check of 60 to change their attitude from friendly to fanatic. You can probably get away with treating them as disposable minions for a while, at that point, but if you do so I would look out for it to come back and bite you. If you treat them as respected allies and soldiers, sacrificing them only in the greatest of need, they will probably stick with you through thick and thin.

[ddude987]

Making them think of you as a god seems risky for little benefit, unless you're trying to use them to actually become a god by having enough people worship you. In any other case, you're running the risk of them feeling deceived and betrayed when they discover that you're not actually a god at all.

Far better to be reasonably honest with them. If you help them out, are consistently looking out for them and their best interests, and otherwise give them no reason to turn on you, the majority of them should follow you willingly, especially since they were already friendly from awaken. You can use epic diplomacy or perform checks to make them fanatic - you just need a check of 60 to change their attitude from friendly to fanatic. You can probably get away with treating them as disposable minions for a while, at that point, but if you do so I would look out for it to come back and bite you. If you treat them as respected allies and soldiers, sacrificing them only in the greatest of need, they will probably stick with you through thick and thin.

Thanks. I think that is what I will do. Though I will still be creating my own religion for them to follow that will run their government and indoctrinate the newborns into their newfound culture.

[Shining Wrath]

How smart are Awakened fleshrakers? Because when they figure out you aren't a god there will be trouble. See The Man Who Would Be King for details. Other than that, hilarity will ensue. I would assume you can take fleshraker form, live among them, teach them your righteous ways, and don't forget:
"Once you go scaly you'll be back daily".

[Ketiara]

Perhaps I could flavor is as I am their overlord or something if flavoring it as them treating me as a god causes problems.

Why not do both... Use one over the top disguise for when you want to act as a deity, and then charge some of the fleshrakers with a quest to help a high ranking member of your church (this high ranking member is you again) thus solving the problem of you getting hurt and not being all mighty.

[drax75]

Ok so my next question is....

Since he has a demi-plane devoted to his worship does that make him a lesser deity?

Maybe Deity rank 0?

[Spuddles]

How smart are Awakened fleshrakers? Because when they figure out you aren't a god there will be trouble. See The Man Who Would Be King for details. Other than that, hilarity will ensue. I would assume you can take fleshraker form, live among them, teach them your righteous ways, and don't forget:
"Once you go scaly you'll be back daily".

Or you know, you don't raise them with the belief that gods can't bleed.


You are their creator, they owe you their existence, and you can unmake them. You are powerful beyond their reckoning. No one says you have to meet Aquinas' proof for being a the ultimate perfect unicorn or whatever. Shooting lightning bolts out of your eyes is probably close enough for "god".

{{scrubbed}}

[ddude987]

Or you know, you don't raise them with the belief that gods can't bleed.


You are their creator, they owe you their existence, and you can unmake them. You are powerful beyond their reckoning. No one says you have to meet Aquinas' proof for being a the ultimate perfect unicorn or whatever. Shooting lightning bolts out of your eyes is probably close enough for "god".

{{scrubbed}}

I see the point you make. Because I am creating their race they have no reason to believe anything I didn't tell them. Also they are isolated on their own plane of existence. Not sure how to handle teaching them of the outer world. Also that would be absolutely hilarious if a raptor just pounced on a cleric, mauled him and then screamed "Hail Raptor Jesus!"

Another question: Would the existing gods get offended if I told my new found race that I am a god?

[Shining Wrath]

I see the point you make. Because I am creating their race they have no reason to believe anything I didn't tell them. Also they are isolated on their own plane of existence. Not sure how to handle teaching them of the outer world. Also that would be absolutely hilarious if a raptor just pounced on a cleric, mauled him and then screamed "Hail Raptor Jesus!"

Another question: Would the existing gods get offended if I told my new found race that I am a god?

Which existing god? Because a trickster god might think it was hilarious, a lawful neutral one might think you were breaking the rules, an lawful evil one might see you as interfering with his plans to dominate the multiverse, a chaotic good one might cut you slack so long as you meant well ...

[Xervous]

Posing as a high cleric / oracle of the Great Creator might be the best way to go. Avoids the need to display a constant, unbreakable facade...

Also, for the "breeding" portion of this epic plan, why not find an inherited template or two to add to the mix?

Half dragon sounds fitting...

[ddude987]

Also, in terms of my animal companion... The magebred template says int is always 2. Can I improve the animals int after the template is applied?

[Xervous]

awakening a creature bumps its stats... so yeah

[ddude987]

awakening a creature bumps its stats... so yeah

Awesome, though awaken can't be used on animal companion but there are probably other ways to bump its int. Magic items and such.

[Menzath]

leadership >> epic leadership. Not sure what you would do to figure out thier effective level. but that is the best bet for having a "Horde" of followers of any type.

option 2 is that you literally become a divine being and get a divine rank(I.E. godhood).

and #3 is... bribe/pay/extort/ransom/etc them. You should make them understand that only YOU have the power to make them sentiant and that for this to be performed you have to be kept safe from ememies and whatnot.(may require you to not give them the item that can awaken 1/day)

[aphoticConniver]

I love this idea, so I just might steal it.

Now, a question relating to Fleshrakers: Are there any rules regarding concentrating venom? You could turn the demiplane into a venom manufacturing plant and get some sick Dex damage in almost every attack.

[ddude987]

I love this idea, so I just might steal it.

Now, a question relating to Fleshrakers: Are there any rules regarding concentrating venom? You could turn the demiplane into a venom manufacturing plant and get some sick Dex damage in almost every attack.

I don't think so, but then again genesis let's you make the plane with whatever you want I think...