Durkon the Vampire Spawn

[Finagle]

So, it finally happened. Durkon got all his CON drained and now he's a vampire spawn.


He acquires the Vampire Spawn template. Hooray for stat bonuses! How he's stronger and wiser. What does his character sheet look like now? More bonus spells?

Will he have to wait a few days before rising as mandated by the rules, or will he get up right away? I imagine the comic will cut away after this, so it will be another wait.

He is now Evil, meaning he can now be BFF with Malack. Better than friends, he is now Malack's blood relative. That petty objection of "yer a life-draining monstrosity" is no longer an impediment to their otherwise great relationship.

Per Malack, the life Durkon lived as a mortal now has no bearing on his personality now. He will wake up as a new man and think that his old life was a waste of time. Wandering around human lands just on the say-so of some old fogey cleric! What a dumb way to spend a life!

Durkon is sure looking forward to enjoying that cup of bloodwart tea!

Yet another connection to the "Empire of Blood means your father" theme.

I suppose in game terms he now becomes an NPC. Now he doesn't have plot armor and all the other benefits of being a main character. Well, not that he really had plot armor because his death had been prophesied, but you get the drift.

Maybe he'll be the first priest of Hel? Could that be why she was re-introduced a comic or two ago? I suppose without the connection to Thor his cleric spells won't work any more.

[SinsI]

His level is too high, he is a full-fledged Vampire, not some puny Vampire Spawn.

[dps]

Per Malack, the life Durkon lived as a mortal now has no bearing on his personality now. He will wake up as a new man and think that his old life was a waste of time. Wandering around human lands just on the say-so of some old fogey cleric! What a dumb way to spend a life!


The way I read Malack's comments about being a different person than the one he was when he was alive, it was more about the experiences he's had over the last 200 years than about just being undead.

[KillingAScarab]

He is now Evil, meaning he can now be BFF with Malack. Better than friends, he is now Malack's blood relative. That petty objection of "yer a life-draining monstrosity" is no longer an impediment to their otherwise great relationship.

Per Malack, the life Durkon lived as a mortal now has no bearing on his personality now. He will wake up as a new man and think that his old life was a waste of time. Wandering around human lands just on the say-so of some old fogey cleric! What a dumb way to spend a life!According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm), Malack would be Durkon's undisputed master, until Malack were destroyed or he was freed from slavery by Malack. Since, it has already been established Malack's prior "children" were destroyed, Durkon would not get off the hook by the "exceeds this limit" clause. If Durkon were to become a vampire, he would do whatever Malack told him to, really.



Maybe he'll be the first priest of Hel? Could that be why she was re-introduced a comic or two ago? I suppose without the connection to Thor his cleric spells won't work any more.
It seems unlikely to me Malack would direct Durkon/allow Durkon to worship any deity but Nergal. I agree, though, that becoming a negative energy-fueled abomination is probably in violation of Thor's code of conduct for his clerics. Sure, Durkon could atone, but the proper path to atonement probably requires self-destruction. If a vampire Durkon were to somehow regain free will and he wasn't outright destroyed, it seems likely he would be a 15d12, 2 iterative attack dead weight to the Order of the Stick. Even worse once Xykon or Redcloak show up and take control over him.

I don't see a vampire scenario as being a very likely future for Durkon. Except, in so far as a vampire Durkon might then track down Hilgya and their terrible union would eventually produce a dwarven dhampir descendent of Durkon. This is alliterative, so it must be possible. I want to read the tales of Vampire Hunter DDDD.

[Saage]

I think it is very unlikely that Durkon will become a vampire or will last as one for any significant time.

Seriously, just as turning Malack into a non-vampire is just a way of killing who he is, turning Durkon into a vampire is a way of killing who he is. Surely, Malack understands this. Since apparently he still holds a lot of respect for Durkon, it seems very likely that he won't humiliate him so after his death. So yeah, I don't think we'll be seeing vampire Durkon.

Vampire Belkar is still a lot more likely.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Actually, Durkon will rise as a vampire unless someone destroys his corpse. For him to actually die, Malack needs to perform said destruction i.e. incinerate/decapitate/disintegrate/generally mutilate his friend's temporarily inanimate body.

[hamishspence]

According to Libris Mortis, a spawning undead can, if it passes a Will save, choose to not spawn- even if the type of attack killing the victim would normally cause a spawn to arise.

So- if those rules are used- a vampire could choose to drain a victim to death, without the victim rising as a new vampire or spawn.

[Edhelras]

So, it finally happened. Durkon got all his CON drained and now he's a vampire spawn.


He acquires the Vampire Spawn template. Hooray for stat bonuses! How he's stronger and wiser. What does his character sheet look like now? More bonus spells?



Actually, since Durkon was killed by Malack's blood-sucking (CON drain), and since he has more than 5 HD, he'll rise as a Vampire, not a Vampire Spawn.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

I do hope there will be some twist to this, though. I've never experienced this with my own characters, but according to the description, Durkon would have to be buried first (presumably in a coffin of his own, which he will be bound to), and then rise as a vampire 1d4 days afterwards.
What I don't know is what happens if you use Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm) on the corpse before it has risen as a vampire - will the entire process be reversed, then?
And what if you use the lower-lvl spell Raise dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm)- it doesn't work on someone who has been turned into an undead creature - but it Durkon considered turned into an undead before he actually rises as a vampire 1d4 days after his burial?
I even don't know what happens to a corpse bled to death by a Vampire if the corpse is never buried, or if it's cremated. How can someone rise as a vampire, if he doesn't have a coffin to be his own? The coffin-addiction is kinda essential to being a vampire.

Anyway, unless Hilga or some other Durkon-loving priest shows up, the chances are slim that Durkon can be resurrected in the few coming days. And there is the interesting philosophical question: Given Durkon's view of the bright side of dying - would he be willing to return? On the other hand: Does he have any choice, other than returning, given that the alternative is rising as an undead abomination? What goes on in Durkon now, is his soul already preparing to adjust to the vampiric state?
Many interesting things to come....

[Man on Fire]

I suppose in game terms he now becomes an NPC. Now he doesn't have plot armor and all the other benefits of being a main character. Well, not that he really had plot armor because his death had been prophesied, but you get the drift.

Or he could be played as enemy PC by his former player.

[factotum]

Or he could be played as enemy PC by his former player.

Except he doesn't have a player, and indeed, neither do any of the other PCs in the strip.

[Chantelune]

Despite that, the characters themselves distinguishes the people beetween pcs and npcs. Durkon becoming a vampire doesn't necessary mean he will be a npc from now on, player or not. ^^

[Winter]

Despite that, the characters themselves distinguishes the people beetween pcs and npcs. Durkon becoming a vampire doesn't necessary mean he will be a npc from now on, player or not. ^^

The issue is just neither we nor the characters in comic seem to have any idea what the distinction between PC and NPC means in OotS. :smallwink:

[Edhelras]

The issue is just neither we nor the characters in comic seem to have any idea what the distinction between PC and NPC means in OotS. :smallwink:

Well, at least they know the difference between being someone with a name, and just being an unnamed NPC (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html)...

[Finagle]

The issue is just neither we nor the characters in comic seem to have any idea what the distinction between PC and NPC means in OotS. :smallwink:
Elan knows he is a PC (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html), Roy does too (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html).

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. I think Durkon as the priest of Hel makes a hell of a lot of sense. He'd get his cleric powers back, Malack wouldn't mind because he has respect for Durkon and his religion, and him returning to dwarven lands to wreak devastation would make a lot of sense, story-wise.

All the Oracle said was "posthumously". It doesn't necessarily mean "as the honored dead, to be interred alongside his relatives." That was all Durkon's assumption.

[Winter]

I think Durkon as the priest of Hel makes a hell of a lot of sense.

That's a pretty awesome idea. Also, it seems Hel does need some support. The issue is just that the afterlife of Hel does not seem to be something many dwarves are looking forward to.
With some better PR and a re-decoration of her afterlife, Hel might be on the way up.

Btw, as what would Durkon's death count? He *did* die in battle and not from a disease, so he should go to Thor when he finally is destroyed*.

* Thor's afterlife might or might not be affected by alignment; Durkon's vampirism might or might not affect his alignment.

[Chantelune]

As I was joking around in the strip topic, Hel might argue he died from a heavy case of hemophylia. :smallbiggrin:

Also, Durkon turning out as a priest of Hel would be awesome. :smallamused:

[Emmit Svenson]

... Durkon would have to be buried first (presumably in a coffin of his own, which he will be bound to)....

Or under a collapsing pyramid, after a gate’s destruction.

[The Pilgrim]

For Durkon to return as a Vampire, he has to be buried first. And there is only one place where Roy will allow him to be buried: His Dwarven Homeland.

So, expect a very moving funeral, then a wave of mysterious murders, then Count Thundershield showing up.

Yeah, predictable. But so was Elan's dad being an evil dictator in the Western Continent and pulling an "Elan, I am Your Father", and the Giant went with it anyway - and pulled it off masterfully.

The problem is Belkar. He knows that Durkon has been drained by a Vampire, and he knows that Malack was on a children recruitment drive. So, will he shut up, on the expectative of making an ally of Count Thundershield? Or will he be silenced? I don't really think he's gonna be vamp'ed, too, since, unlike with Durkon, no one in the Party will bother to even bury his corpse.

[Cuthalion]

All the Oracle said was "posthumously". It doesn't necessarily mean "as the honored dead, to be interred alongside his relatives." That was all Durkon's assumption.

"Posthumously" could also count if he got raised, but that is very, very, very unlikely.

Or under a collapsing pyramid, after a gate’s destruction.

Doesn't it need to be a coffin?

[Wizard]

Was Durkon actually drained? I thought he just bled to death due to Malack's fangs. When Belkar is being drained in strip 870, there's a black aura surrounding him, while on strip 877 there's no such thing and Durkon is clearly bleeding.

Just throwing it out there.

EDIT: Never mind, I thought blood draining and constitution draining were different attacks for vampires.

[hamishspence]

I think the black aura represented that Belkar was being drained of energy, as well as blood.

[Cuthalion]

Was Durkon actually drained? I thought he just bled to death due to Malack's fangs. When Belkar is being drained in strip 870, there's a black aura surrounding him, while on strip 877 there's no such thing and Durkon is clearly bleeding.

Just throwing it out there.

There's this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0876.html), which looks like Belkar's, and I think the Sllrrpp and blood both came from Malack. He also got pale.

[Man on Fire]

Except he doesn't have a player, and indeed, neither do any of the other PCs in the strip.

Then why is one of the books is titled "Origin of the PCs", as in Player Characters :smalltongue:

[Emmit Svenson]

Doesn't it need to be a coffin?

Nope. A vampire needs to possess a coffin in order to retreat and recover after being reduced to 0 hit points. Rising after death as a vampire merely specifies burial. I suppose that Count Durkula, were he buried without a coffin, could acquire one at any point after rising from the dead.

[Gnome Alone]

Except he doesn't have a player, and indeed, neither do any of the other PCs in the strip.

Careful, some of them get mad when you tell them that.

[Finagle]

I think the black aura represented that Belkar was being drained of energy, as well as blood.
Then how's Belkar going to get back his drained levels without Durkon to cast Restoration?

[hamishspence]

He might get lucky and pass his Fort saves for the negative levels 24 hours later- so they don't convert to actual levels lost.

Still, the last time he got drained (by a wight) he seemed to be assuming that the lost level was going to stay lost:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0515.html

[Shale]

Durkon as a cleric of Hel would be a really nifty twist, especially after he went to the trouble of pointing out that there are no dwarves who serve her. He'd go from serving a god who barely notices his prayers to one who would be giving him her undivided attention.

[Flame of Anor]

Then why is one of the books is titled "Origin of the PCs", as in Player Characters :smalltongue:

Because, in this world, a "PC" is just some kind of special person. There are no players. This is not in question.

[Man on Fire]

Because, in this world, a "PC" is just some kind of special person. There are no players. This is not in question.

That was a joke, you know?

[Finagle]

Still, the last time he got drained (by a wight) he seemed to be assuming that the lost level was going to stay lost:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0515.html
It was kind of a big deal during that storyline that the Azure City Underground didn't have any clerics who could cast 4th level spells like Restoration. How exactly was Belkar going to get his level back?

[hamishspence]

If he was lucky, the negative level would have come back of its own accord, 24 hours later- and he wouldn't have lost a level:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels


Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

And even then, a greater restoration spell can restore the "permanently" lost levels just fine - and so can True Resurrection.

[KillingAScarab]

I think Durkon as the priest of Hel makes a hell of a lot of sense. He'd get his cleric powers back, Malack wouldn't mind because he has respect for Durkon and his religion, and him returning to dwarven lands to wreak devastation would make a lot of sense, story-wise.


Durkon as a cleric of Hel would be a really nifty twist, especially after he went to the trouble of pointing out that there are no dwarves who serve her. He'd go from serving a god who barely notices his prayers to one who would be giving him her undivided attention.While I find Shale's viewpoint is the more appealing of the two, I still do not see Durkon willingly abandoning his faith in Thor. Even when he was dying, his faith in Thor was not broken. His jokes and lamentations about the inattentiveness of his deity have always, in my opinion, been commentary on the general nature of the relationship between clerics and their deities. I believe Start of Darkness said it best: a god is willing to grant mortals some measure of their power in exchange for the ability to influence portions of the world of Order of the Stick which are outside of their realm. Durkon thinks he has been serving Thor's will, but we don't know if that is true. On the Origins of the PCs offers evidence to the contrary. Still, Durkon has acted according to Thor's best interests as he can interpret them, so we do see Thor have some sort of reaction to Durkon's circumstances (perhaps more often than the average cleric).

We also do not know that a vampire Durkon's alignment would be compatible with Hel's. As Malack stated, Neutrality is a better fit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) for death. Lawful good or lawful evil is still one more step on the alignment table away from a true neutral deity's range of clerics. A lawful neutral death god is certainly possible (Kelemvor in Forgotten Realms, for example), but this is still an unknown.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Durkon does decide to change faith, willingly. Without any prior intent to do so, nor any interest in her sphere of influence, Durkon suddenly becomes the cleric of Hel, who accepts him not out of his piety but her desperation. How would that play out? I see it as something like this.
:durkon: *How may I serve ye, Hel?
"Stop mucking around with that dungeon crawling and go tend to sick dwarves. Tell them that trees aren't a valid enemy and they will no longer be granted honorable deaths for inventing new ways to die to plants."
:durkon: *Everything ye say is a lie! Thor, take me back! *Impales himself on an oak branch*


*spoken with a cheesy vampire accent added on top of his existing Scottish one

[Shale]

Given that both of Hel's appearances have featured her stubbornly rules-lawyering to get custody of a soul, Lawful seems like a good fit from what little we know.

[hamishspence]

As Malack stated, Neutrality is a better fit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) for death.

I'm a little suspicious, given what we now know of Malack.

[Psyren]

The issue is just neither we nor the characters in comic seem to have any idea what the distinction between PC and NPC means in OotS. :smallwink:

"PC" simply means "primary protagonist" in OotSverse. Redcloak makes this clear in the OtOoPCs intro.

[KillingAScarab]

Given that both of Hel's appearances have featured her stubbornly rules-lawyering to get custody of a soul, Lawful seems like a good fit from what little we know.I consider the second one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) to be an appeal to common sense, which also happens to be funny. They're deities, not dwarves, after all. Hmm... I wonder what non-dwarves believe about Hel. The Northern pantheon has only had human proportions, so far, but I can only recall a dwarven P.O.V. on the matter, outside of Banjo attempting to join.


I'm a little suspicious, given what we now know of Malack.The best kind of lie is the one which contains the truth. Neutrality does seem to be a common enough component to the death gods. Nerull (NE) and Wee Jas (LN), Pharasma (N, Pathfinder), The Raven Queen (4th ed. unaligned)...

[MichaelGoldclaw]

I might be getting into a different topic, but does being undead HAVE to be evil.
Baelnorns are elven LICHES that result to lichdom for a noble cause

[hamishspence]

Going by Libris Mortis- no. Even Vampire Spawn can be non-evil (it's rare). Doesn't say much about true vampires- but there have been vampire heroes in D&D fiction.

[KillingAScarab]

I might be getting into a different topic, but does being undead HAVE to be evil.
Baelnorns are elven LICHES that result to lichdom for a noble cause


Going by Libris Mortis- no. Even Vampire Spawn can be non-evil (it's rare). Doesn't say much about true vampires- but there have been vampire heroes in D&D fiction.Plus, in 4th edition you can have vampire as your class regardless of alignment. From what I hear, you become a real drain on the party.

*ducks*

[Flame of Anor]

That was a joke, you know?

It's hard to tell, on the internet.

[Alaris]

To respond to all the claims in regards to PCs, it is actually pretty much answered by Belkar and his Hallucination. ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0606.html ).

"They simply live in a world where the laws of D&D apply."

^_^

A PC is one of the "Heroes." One of the "Protagonists."

[symirel]

So, I haven't really seen any details on this or other threads about the subject of this thread... what would really happen to Durkon as a vampire? I've seen a lot of hand-wringing about alignment and (loss of) cleric spells, that is, but what about the new abilities/stats?

Looking at SRD, he'd get +6 AC (in combination with his heavy armor seems good). The stat bonuses seem big, but I don't know enough about D&D to really speculate. Is +2 Wisdom relevant for a 14th level cleric? Will the +8 racial bonus on move silently finally make Durkon able to move without waking the whole neighborhood? Is his hammer-bashing about to become deadly with the addition of Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative?

Maybe this is all moot and he won't even be made a vampire, but I'm interested in how all these changes could affect his already considerable abilities (even Tarquin said he was a decent melee fighter, as a living cleric).

[Incendax]

Durkon becomes a vampire.
Order of the Stick kills Malack during a big showdown (but not Tarquin).
Durkon becomes free-willed.
Durkon gets Malack's protection from sunlight ability.
Rich Burlew can write interesting stories about Durkon as a vampire.
Rich Burlew does not have to deal with the plot problems that high level cleric casting can bring (due to +8 ECL put on Durkon).


It's win-win for everybody.

[Emmit Svenson]

I still do not see Durkon willingly abandoning his faith in Thor.

Oh, I could see the corrupting influence of an undead nature combining with the desperation of his final moments ("Thor, I guess you're not listening either...this 's part o yer plan, right?") to cause him to abandon his faith, followed by a conversion to the worship of Nergal, or perhaps his wife.

[Psionic Dog]

I'm going to vote with Red Cloak. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)

That’s what you’ve never really understood about the undead, Tsukiko. You treat them like they’re people when they’re nothing but bits of skin and bone and dark energy glued together by magic into the shape of a man.

So far the only undead we've seen to indisputably hold the original soul have been V's dragon head and Xykon. Zombies, on the other hand, are soulless. (SoD)

I could be wrong, but I'd guess that when/if Durkon's corpse becomes ambulatory, the resulting vampire will be the dark echo of what Durkon once was now filled with dark energy. It may have access to Durkon's memories, but it won't be Durkon. The soul of Durkon will be standing on the clouds while Eugene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0601.html) hands him a book titled Everything you wanted to know about your body being used to make a Vamipre and Hel argues that death by draining counts as a disease.

[AlexanderRM]

Elan knows he is a PC (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html), Roy does too (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html).

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. I think Durkon as the priest of Hel makes a hell of a lot of sense. He'd get his cleric powers back, Malack wouldn't mind because he has respect for Durkon and his religion, and him returning to dwarven lands to wreak devastation would make a lot of sense, story-wise.

All the Oracle said was "posthumously". It doesn't necessarily mean "as the honored dead, to be interred alongside his relatives." That was all Durkon's assumption.

Oh wow, that makes far too much sense. And also ruins Durkon's death even further, by completely removing that bittersweet aspect. :(

[Flame of Anor]

Durkon becomes a vampire.
Order of the Stick kills Malack during a big showdown (but not Tarquin).
Durkon becomes free-willed.
Durkon gets Malack's protection from sunlight ability.
Rich Burlew can write interesting stories about Durkon as a vampire.
Rich Burlew does not have to deal with the plot problems that high level cleric casting can bring (due to +8 ECL put on Durkon).


It's win-win for everybody.

Yeah, but wouldn't vampire!Durkon be Evil? That would be a serious problem.

[Tre of the Wood]

According to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm), Malack would be Durkon's undisputed master, until Malack were destroyed or he was freed from slavery by Malack. Since, it has already been established Malack's prior "children" were destroyed, Durkon would not get off the hook by the "exceeds this limit" clause. If Durkon were to become a vampire, he would do whatever Malack told him to, really.


Did Malack not say that he misses his peers? He will undoubtedly be freed by Malack unless Tarquin interferes.

[spongkels]

I don't see a vampire scenario as being a very likely future for Durkon. Except, in so far as a vampire Durkon might then track down Hilgya and their terrible union would eventually produce a dwarven dhampir descendent of Durkon. This is alliterative, so it must be possible. I want to read the tales of Vampire Hunter DDDD.
__________________
I'm the ranger
Killing a scarab

- The Cure Light Wounds
from the album Three Illusion (Figment) Boys


How do thy paragraph and sig win? Let me count the ways ...

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I'm going to vote with Red Cloak. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)


So far the only undead we've seen to indisputably hold the original soul have been V's dragon head and Xykon. Zombies, on the other hand, are soulless. (SoD)

I could be wrong, but I'd guess that when/if Durkon's corpse becomes ambulatory, the resulting vampire will be the dark echo of what Durkon once was now filled with dark energy. It may have access to Durkon's memories, but it won't be Durkon. The soul of Durkon will be standing on the clouds while Eugene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0601.html) hands him a book titled Everything you wanted to know about your body being used to make a Vamipre and Hel argues that death by draining counts as a disease.

Okay, that would be funny.

However, from a plot perspective, it makes sense for Durkon's sentient soul to be tied to his undead corpse. He'll just be driven by his undead urges to feed on the living, and he probably will go through a bit of character development as he rationalizes it (since Malack has already rationalized this as "I'm giving my friend Durkon the gift of immortality so that he can better relate to me and so that I won't be so lonely").

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out when Durkon gets to the LG afterlife. "But I picked up an "always evil" template!" is a pretty good excuse, but it will obviously put a wrinkle in things. Maybe they'll analyze how Lawful he remained?

[Tragak]

Okay, that would be funny.

However, from a plot perspective, it makes sense for Durkon's sentient soul to be tied to his undead corpse. He'll just be driven by his undead urges to feed on the living, and he probably will go through a bit of character development as he rationalizes it (since Malack has already rationalized this as "I'm giving my friend Durkon the gift of immortality so that he can better relate to me and so that I won't be so lonely").

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out when Durkon gets to the LG afterlife. "But I picked up an "always evil" template!" is a pretty good excuse, but it will obviously put a wrinkle in things. Maybe they'll analyze how Lawful he remained?

I imagine that Thor's angels would consider that to be just an "excuse" the way the IFCC did when they made V pull that.

[dps]

So, I haven't really seen any details on this or other threads about the subject of this thread... what would really happen to Durkon as a vampire? I've seen a lot of hand-wringing about alignment and (loss of) cleric spells, that is, but what about the new abilities/stats?

Looking at SRD, he'd get +6 AC (in combination with his heavy armor seems good). The stat bonuses seem big, but I don't know enough about D&D to really speculate. Is +2 Wisdom relevant for a 14th level cleric? Will the +8 racial bonus on move silently finally make Durkon able to move without waking the whole neighborhood? Is his hammer-bashing about to become deadly with the addition of Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative?

Maybe this is all moot and he won't even be made a vampire, but I'm interested in how all these changes could affect his already considerable abilities (even Tarquin said he was a decent melee fighter, as a living cleric).

The big problem is alignment. If he becomes Evil, then he probably can't be a cleric of Thor anymore, so he'd lose his spells.

[Yael]

The big problem is alignment. If he becomes Evil, then he probably can't be a cleric of Thor anymore, so he'd lose his spells.

That's true, he should go to attone, but, being an EVIL undead, it would be difficult, though.

[KillingAScarab]

In before server backups mean I can't post. New comic up. We can stop speculating about the burial stuff.


Did Malack not say that he misses his peers? He will undoubtedly be freed by Malack unless Tarquin interferes.#878 addresses exactly what it is Malack sought, and what he realizes he really wanted.


So, I haven't really seen any details on this or other threads about the subject of this thread... what would really happen to Durkon as a vampire? I've seen a lot of hand-wringing about alignment and (loss of) cleric spells, that is, but what about the new abilities/stats?
...
Maybe this is all moot...
...but I'm interested in how all these changes could affect his already considerable abilities (even Tarquin said he was a decent melee fighter, as a living cleric).I'll disclaim this by saying I don't have very much actual experience with playing D&D. I've read a fair amount, however. That +6 is natural armor, to start with. It will stack with his full plate, but he will be just as much of a sitting duck to touch attacks (for example, that heal spell he cast on Malack) and ranged touch attacks (such as disintegrate), with a maximum dexterity bonus of +1. The -6 armor check penalty nearly nullifies the bonus to a skill Durkon probably has no ranks in. Every +2 bonus to wisdom would raise the Will save DCs of the relevant cleric spells, but he should no longer receive spells from Thor. The silver and magic damage reduction of 10, along with the cold and electricity resistances of 10 could be somewhat useful, but look how much Thor's Lightning hurt Malack. Fast healing makes those better when you have time to recover.

As for his ability to deal damage, he now has a 1d6 slam attack he can use as an off-hand attack, but without a feat he cannot also benefit from his shield, simultaneously. Speaking of which, why did Malack put his shield back on his back before using the staff? Anyway, the strength increase doesn't quite cover the penalties accrued for attempting that in a full-attack action. If he actually wants to hit with that energy drain, he's better off punching than swinging the hammer. He might be able to get creative with the use of swarms called through children of the night, but that has some setup time. Also, 5,000 bats must be a nightmare to draw.



Durkon becomes a vampire.
Order of the Stick kills Malack during a big showdown (but not Tarquin).
Durkon becomes free-willed.
Durkon gets Malack's protection from sunlight ability.
How does Durkon get this spell from Malack? I can see it being cast upon him so Malack and he can leave the pyramid at any time, but learning it right away?


Oh, I could see the corrupting influence of an undead nature combining with the desperation of his final moments ("Thor, I guess you're not listening either...this 's part o yer plan, right?") to cause him to abandon his faith, followed by a conversion to the worship of Nergal, or perhaps his wife.


So far the only undead we've seen to indisputably hold the original soul have been V's dragon head and Xykon. Zombies, on the other hand, are soulless. (SoD)

I could be wrong, but I'd guess that when/if Durkon's corpse becomes ambulatory, the resulting vampire will be the dark echo of what Durkon once was now filled with dark energy. It may have access to Durkon's memories, but it won't be Durkon. The soul of Durkon will be standing on the clouds while Eugene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0601.html) hands him a book titled Everything you wanted to know about your body being used to make a Vamipre and Hel argues that death by draining counts as a disease.First, in Start of Darkness you can tell Xykon's condition results in a change in his personality. This isn't a thread about Xykon, so I don't particularly want to get into how much time that may have taken. Suffice to say that the lich template increases INT, as does the vampire template. So something different is happening upstairs (or it would be if the organ was still functional). Emmit may have a fair point about undead corruption, too.

Second, the spirit of Roy was still up on the mountain because a golem is quite different: Roy's skeleton was just a shell to be inhabited by an elemental which was bound into it. At this point, I agree with Thormar that Malack and Durkon are still quite "in there."

Finally, thanks spongkels. I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)

[Incendax]

Yeah, but wouldn't vampire!Durkon be Evil? That would be a serious problem.Like Belkar? A free willed Durkon would probably lean a lot more neutral while still having evil conflicts from time to time.

How does Durkon get this spell from Malack? I can see it being cast upon him so Malack and he can leave the pyramid at any time, but learning it right away?Malack will cast it on him at first, but eventually Durkon will discover Malack has it as a magic item so he doesn't have to cast it on himself every day (just keep a backup or two in case of being dispelled).

[Chantelune]

Well, I expected Durkon to rise before 1d4 days, as the giant said that things in the ootsverse moves at the speed of plot. Didn't see it coming from that staff.

Malack's rant about having a brother instead of a child makes me think that he will let him have free will. After all, father-children relationship is base on authority, but brothers are of equal standing. So I put my chips in Durkon having free will. :smallamused:

And Durkula must be quite thirsty right now. I kind of feel that Belkar might be Durkon's first bite. Though he might have difficulties to bite his neck and he sure doesn't have Malack's wide mouth to bite his head, so maybe not. Possible that Malack have some blood in a gourd just for those emergencies. ^^

Looking forward to the LG reaction to that. Tarquin might be happy for his friends, but Nale ? He might not be too comfortable with another vampire on the team. :smallbiggrin: