Can you Raise yourself?

[karkus]

Let's say that you are a >8th-level Cleric who has died and returned as a ghost. Because you retain all of your spellcasting abilities, can you travel back to the site of your death and cast Raise Dead on your own dead body?

Disclaimer: this should not become a Durkon thread. It's fine if you want to include some things relating to him, or even talk about how it can work for him, but this is not a strictly-Durkon thread. This is a more-or-less-irrelevant idea that sprung into my head five minutes ago.

[Ashtagon]

Let's say that you are a >8th-level Cleric who has died and returned as a ghost. Because you retain all of your spellcasting abilities, can you travel back to the site of your death and cast Raise Dead on your own dead body?

Disclaimer: this should not become a Durkon thread. It's fine if you want to include some things relating to him, or even talk about how it can work for him, but this is not a strictly-Durkon thread. This is a more-or-less-irrelevant idea that sprung into my head five minutes ago.

Strictly by RAW, you don't even need to be a ghost to accomplish this. By RAW, dead characters are not prohibited from taking actions.

otoh, if player who tried this (even as a ghost character), I'd throw books at them.

[karkus]

if player who tried this (even as a ghost character), I'd throw books at them.

I wonder what would enrage a DM more; Raising yourself or taking Leadership.

[Coidzor]

The trick here is in becoming a ghost.

[karkus]

The trick here is in becoming a ghost.

...How so? If anything, I had thought that the rules for becoming a Ghost were far too broad; not restricting and/or difficult. Just say that there are things left for you to do.

"Oh no! I forgot to clean the lint trap! What if someone breaks in and does laundry?! It could start a fire!"

Although that was a quote from Marge Simpson, it can certainly show that you can come up with an excuse, no matter how ridiculous, for almost any situation.

[Crake]

...How so? If anything, I had thought that the rules for becoming a Ghost were far too broad; not restricting and/or difficult. Just say that there are things left for you to do.

"Oh no! I forgot to clean the lint trap! What if someone breaks in and does laundry?! It could start a fire!"

Although that was a quote from Marge Simpson, it can certainly show that you can come up with an excuse, no matter how ridiculous, for almost any situation.

Except that in the end it's entirely up to the DM if you're allowed to come back as a ghost or not. I'm sure that 99% of people who die have something left unfinished, but they don't all come back as ghosts do they.

[Lonely Tylenol]

In all seriousness, in the Ghostwalk campaign setting (or any campaign that incorporates Ghostwalk rules for eidolons and eidoloncers), I believe it would be rather easy...?

[TuggyNE]

The real question, I think, is why would you want to? You're a ghost now! Sure, you're harmed by positive energy and all that, and if you used to be a melee type you sure aren't now, but these things can be overcome, or better yet used to your advantage.

:smallwink:

[Lonely Tylenol]

The real question, I think, is why would you want to? You're a ghost now! Sure, you're harmed by positive energy and all that, and if you used to be a melee type you sure aren't now, but these things can be overcome, or better yet used to your advantage.

:smallwink:

Well, if you're in said Ghostwalk campaign, there is the unfortunate issue of passing on once eidolon/eidoloncer levels make up a majority of your class levels...

...I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who cares that Ghostwalk exists...

[ahenobarbi]

The real question, I think, is why would you want to? You're a ghost now! Sure, you're harmed by positive energy and all that, and if you used to be a melee type you sure aren't now, but these things can be overcome, or better yet used to your advantage.

:smallwink:


Let's say that you are a >8th-level Cleric who has died and returned as a ghost.

Because lost levels hurt :smalltongue: Also because it's kind of cool.

[Coidzor]

Well, if you're in said Ghostwalk campaign, there is the unfortunate issue of passing on once eidolon/eidoloncer levels make up a majority of your class levels...

...I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who cares that Ghostwalk exists...

I keep meaning to do a good read through...x.x

[Deaxsa]

The real question, I think, is why would you want to? You're a ghost now! Sure, you're harmed by positive energy and all that, and if you used to be a melee type you sure aren't now, but these things can be overcome, or better yet used to your advantage.

:smallwink:

...he'd want to so that he could walk(float) up to his body and raise himself? are you being sarcastic?

[KillianHawkeye]

This will not work. Your corpse cannot be raised until the undead you have become has been destroyed. Therefore, someone else has to do it.

Also, Raise Dead will not do it. It requires Ressurection at the minimum.



EDIT: For the most fun, you can still always animate your own corpse as a zombie or skeleton (if your DM doesn't throw a book at you).

Honestly though, ghosts are kinda dependent on their remains remaining undisturbed, so I don't think you can do much with your corpse other than see that it's well cared for.

[navar100]

There's an easier way. Take Craft Contingent Spell Feat and craft a Contingent Raise Dead on yourself while alive. Contigent Resurrection is better when you can cast it. Who needs an Epic Spell? :smallcool:

[GreenSerpent]

This will not work. Your corpse cannot be raised until the undead you have become has been destroyed. Therefore, someone else has to do it.

Also, Raise Dead will not do it. It requires Ressurection at the minimum.


Contingent Resurrection + several Heals on yourself?

[Lapak]

EDIT: For the most fun, you can still always animate your own corpse as a zombie or skeleton (if your DM doesn't throw a book at you).

Honestly though, ghosts are kinda dependent on their remains remaining undisturbed, so I don't think you can do much with your corpse other than see that it's well cared for.You've just given me a great idea for a villain, though. I'm imagining a Ghost who is tied to his mortal remains and cannot manifest far from them, and decides to take his show on the road by animating his corpse as a zombie.

[Waddacku]

Gish it up, become a ghost, cast Animate Dread Warrior on your corpse. Team up with yourself.

[Kaeso]

What if the cleric gains contingency (through a domain) and uses contingency to cast raise dead on himself as soon as he dies?

[Psyren]

Contingent Resurrection + several Heals on yourself?

Resurrection cannot be contingencied as it is 7th level. However, you could get a Craft Contingent Spell version of it.

As far as Contingent Raise Dead (condition: dead), this seems to me a very reasonable use of the spell, provided you are capable of casting both. But coming back this way can really screw you over - you may return next to the thing that killed you in the first place, and you also have the 50% chance of losing each uncast spell, on top of the spells gone from your level loss.

[Raimun]

Of course there are Cleric spells for this.

Fortunate Fate Heals you immediately when you go -10 hp or below. This only works against death by loss of hp and you kinda have to know you'll be dying soon, since the duration is 10 min/caster level.

Death Pact is permanent and hits you with True Resurrection immediately you die.
Bad news is that you lose 2 points of Con permanently, when the spell cast. Good news is, you can get them back with Miracle, once the spell has been activated or it is otherwise ended. It's cheap too. It costs only 1,000 gp vs. 25, 000 gp of post-death True Resurrection.

[Ashtagon]

What if the cleric gains contingency (through a domain) and uses contingency to cast raise dead on himself as soon as he dies?

Either he is dead and so cannot use actions (screw RAW on that one), or he is undead and so the spell fails because he exists in undead form. Either way, fail.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Of course there are Cleric spells for this.

Fortunate Fate Heals you immediately when you go below -10 hp. This only works against death by loss of hp and you kinda have to know you'll be dying soon, since the duration is 10 min/caster level.

Death Pact is permanent and hits you with True Resurrection immediately you die.
Bad news is that you lose 2 points of Con permanently, when the spell cast. Good news is, you can get them back with Miracle, once the spell has been activated or it is otherwise ended. It's cheap too. It costs only 1,000 gp vs. 25, 000 gp of post-death True Resurrection.

I looked it up and it appears to only be raise dead, not true Resurrection.

[Raimun]

I looked it up and it appears to only be raise dead, not true Resurrection.

Spell Compendium, Death Pact, an 8th level spell. It is True Resurrection.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Spell Compendium, Death Pact, an 8th level spell. It is True Resurrection.

Ah, I was looking at the complete divine version. I really want my copy of the spell compendium soon.

[Raimun]

Ah, I was looking at the complete divine version. I really want my copy of the spell compendium soon.

Hmm, you're right. There's an another version. This one teleports the target to a safe location (SC-version doesn't do this) and casts Raise Dead and Heal to the target. Not bad but it also costs XP, the most valuable commodity.

[otakumick]

I love the Ghostwalk ghosts... I once had a dead cleric that used her own body as a mule for carrying things... when it wasn't just stuffed in one of the party members bag of holding.

[Coidzor]

Resurrection cannot be contingencied as it is 7th level. However, you could get a Craft Contingent Spell version of it.

As far as Contingent Raise Dead (condition: dead), this seems to me a very reasonable use of the spell, provided you are capable of casting both. But coming back this way can really screw you over - you may return next to the thing that killed you in the first place, and you also have the 50% chance of losing each uncast spell, on top of the spells gone from your level loss.

Contingent Revivify?

[Psyren]

Contingent Revivify?

Yeah that seems fine, and works for (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/contingencyPsionic.htm) psionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRevivify.htm) too.

[holywhippet]

Arcane casters have it better with the clone spell - just create a clone in advance and use regular castings of gentle repose to keep it from rotting.

A better question I've always had is what happens if you create and maintain a clone then become a lich. If your phylactory is destroyed do you get immediately risen in your cloned body?

[koboldish]

I'm not too familiar with all of the after death stuff, but can't a spellcaster just plane shift back to the material plane after he/she dies? Also, as previously stated, there are no penalties for being dead.

[Cirrylius]

I'm not too familiar with all of the after death stuff, but can't a spellcaster just plane shift back to the material plane after he/she dies? Also, as previously stated, there are no penalties for being dead.

No, upon arriving on the Outer Planes your old life is a blank to you. Plus, even if it wasn't, you'd probably lose all your spells from the shock, anyway, so you'd have to wait a day to return.

I always wanted to play a spellcaster who had a researched an appropriate contingent spell to ensure his whole character and identity arrived intact in the afterlife. :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Complete Divine goes into detail on what happens after death (CDiv 125-130.) They cover everything from passing on to become a petitioner, to becoming a ghost due to unfinished business (which "often takes days or even months," fyi) and even being killed by a spawn-creating undead (e.g. a Vampire) that traps the soul inside the corpse.

Concerning the "plane shift back and rez myself" theory, this is not possible by RAW. The Giant's setting - whereby petitioners like Eugene and Roy kept their class abilities in the afterlife - is a houserule, and even then it appears that there are rules that limit what they can do (since Eugene was unable to leave the cloud to harangue Roy whenever he wanted.)

[Coidzor]

I'm not too familiar with all of the after death stuff, but can't a spellcaster just plane shift back to the material plane after he/she dies? Also, as previously stated, there are no penalties for being dead.

Once they get to the outer planes, they're just petitioners or they've been accepted by their deity, and in both cases they're mindraped/mindwiped and either lose all of their power and self or they're divine servants of their deity without the free will to want to do that kind of thing.

During the transition to the outer planes through the astral, they're basically unconscious and rapidly losing a bunch of themselves, but I'm less sure of the second part of that.

At least, insofar as I recall vanilla RAW. It's possible I'm misremembering something.

[Twilightwyrm]

Well, if you're in said Ghostwalk campaign, there is the unfortunate issue of passing on once eidolon/eidoloncer levels make up a majority of your class levels...

...I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who cares that Ghostwalk exists...

It is actually a very interesting campaign setting, but it does face two problems: First, it is a 3.0 setting. Granted, so is something like the Rokugan setting (from Oriental Adventures), but then again you don't see that setting being talked about much either. Second, I just get the feeling people generally don't quite know what to do with it. Someone really should compile a list of compelling adventures that could be had in the setting, because otherwise it is really just "Normal 3.X D&D w/ weird ghost rules".

[Cirrylius]

Someone really should compile a list of compelling adventures that could be had in the setting, because otherwise it is really just "Normal 3.X D&D w/ weird ghost rules".


...I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who cares that Ghostwalk exists...
I get this feeling too. I'm in a Ghostwalk campaign right now, and so far the other players and I have completely ignored the aspects of it that make it a non-generic setting.

[Psyren]

Someone really should compile a list of compelling adventures that could be had in the setting, because otherwise it is really just "Normal 3.X D&D w/ weird ghost rules".

I did see one post back in the day that I found funny - a DM had introduced it to his group by starting the party off in a tavern, then getting the tavern caught on fire and trapping them inside the burning building. Right as their characters died, he pulled out Ghostwalk.

I think it was in a "Interesting Ways to Start in a Tavern" thread of some kind.

[Venger]

Death Pact is permanent and hits you with True Resurrection immediately you die.
Bad news is that you lose 2 points of Con permanently, when the spell cast. Good news is, you can get them back with Miracle, once the spell has been activated or it is otherwise ended. It's cheap too. It costs only 1,000 gp vs. 25, 000 gp of post-death True Resurrection.

what a ripoff!

here's a much better deal:

a 7th rather than an 8th, no material component, and a resurrection (albeit with no level loss so it's functionally the same thing) with a duration of hours/lvl and multiple instances being allowed up at the same time:

heroes of horrors' pact of return.

available at cleric 7 and at the same level via the spite domain.

name any (reasonably specific) set of conditions you think are gonna kill you in the next 13+ hours, and if/when they do, bingo bango, you're up and running good as new!

zap yourself with magic aura to hide the aura of the spell. heck, have two up and only hide one to give enemies a false sense of security! be a weirdo and cast undead mask or something while using false theurgy to get them to unbuffstack the wrong thing

[Socratov]

Contingent Resurrection + several Heals on yourself?

I am not allowed to call this a savepoint/spare life/heartcontainer/green mushroom/or any other reference to videogaming increasing the likelyhood of survival (i.e. more lives)

[Psyren]

I am not allowed to call this a savepoint/spare life/heartcontainer/green mushroom/or any other reference to videogaming increasing the likelyhood of survival (i.e. more lives)

Psionics has a Save Game trick that's way more foolproof than this one. For one thing, this one raises you right where you died, which might be in some monster's belly or impaled on some trap.