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View Full Version : Nerfing tome of battle so it's not better than wizards



Eslin
2013-03-04, 03:01 AM
The title is lies, I just wanted to get you all in here to have a look. Now that you're here, I'm trying to invent some more special attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#) to make non caster, non ToB users have more fun.

This is pretty simple - to actually differentiate weapons beyond 'longsword is d8, bastard sword is d10', I'm trying to give everyone a few options to make them feel different. To keep them from making tome of battle better I'm going to have them mostly use standard or full round actions (I love tome of battle, but I'd like to bring the other classes a little closer in ability) - let me know if there are any that are too abusable.

Some may end up replicating feats, and if so I don't care, a lot of melee feats are absolutely terrible.

Notes: [W] means your weapon's base damage - 1d8 for a medium longsword, 1d6 for a medium shortbow etc.
All attacks are at your highest base attack bonus unless otherwise stated - a full round attack still has iterative penalties
Unarmed attack means unarmed strike or gauntlet
Unless otherwise specified their benefits can only be used by the specified weapon - if you perform bludgeon while wielding a club and a shortsword, only the club gains extra non lethal damage.

Aim
Usable with: Any bow, any crossbow.
As a full round action, attack the target once - you add your dexterity bonus to the shot and ignore up to 5 range increments worth of attack penalties.

All or nothing
Usable with: Any two handed weapon
As a full round action, perform two full attacks. You are now exhausted and sickened until the end of the encounter, even if you would otherwise be unable to be affected by these conditions.

Bludgeon
Usable with: Unarmed attack, club, greatclub, nunchaku, any hammer
As a standard action, perform an attack. For every attack you would have gotten if you had full attacked, deal an additional [W] as nonlethal damage.

Brawler
Special: Requires the improved unarmed strike feat.
Usable with: Unarmed attack, one handed weapon.
As a full round action, perform a full attack. Until your next turn (or, if you successfully grapple the foe, until the grapple ends) are considered to have a secondary natural weapon with damage equal to your unarmed strike that you have the improved grab special ability for though unlike the normal improved grab you can grapple a creature of any size, though you take a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) if you choose to use improved grab's secondary grapple mode. Your brawling attack can be used in addition to a one handed weapon or your regular unarmed attack.

Combat appraisal
Useable with: Any piercing weapon
As a standard action, take stock of an individual within 30' you have already attacked and roll an appraise check. For the rest of the encounter, ignore points of armour or natural armour (if they have both, choose one to reduce. The other can be reduced by using this ability again) equal to your result on the table below.
5 or less: Opponent gains a +3 dodge bonus against you due to your faulty assessment.
6-15: -1
16-25: -2
26-35: -3
36-45: -4
46+: -5

Confusing throw
Usable with: Any melee weapon with a range increment
As a full round action, move up to half your speed and throw a weapon from up to two hands - no more than one weapon may be aimed at a particular target, and any targets are treated as flat footed for the attack.

Crane Stance
Usable with: Any reach weapon that is not a spiked chain
As a standard action, nominate any number of targets within reach. These targets get a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls against you, but do not count towards your limit of attacks of opportunity you can make. Additionally, if you make a successful attack of opportunity against that target they must make a fortitude save equal to the damage you dealt or be unable to move beyond the square they were in when they provoked that attack.

Crossbow trap
Usable with: Any crossbow
As a standard action, ready a standard attack against a square of your choosing. If a foe steps into that square and the attack hits it does x2 damage, increasing the multiplier by one for every extra attack you would have gotten had you made a full attack.

Decipher weakness
Usable with: Quarterstaff, dwarven waraxe, bastard sword, whip.
Special: You must be wielding a magical weapon
As a standard action, perform a single attack and make a decipher script check - if the attack hits, choose a magic item belonging to the target and attempt to dispel it using your decipher script check -10 as your caster level for the attempt. If you succeed, both the weapon used and the item targeted are suppressed for 1d4 rounds.

Duel
Usable with: Any sword
As a standard action, perform a single attack against one foe. For the rest of the encounter or until that foe is incapacitated you may only direct attacks against that foe and can not flank him, but any time the foe attacks you may make an attack roll back - if yours exceeds his, the attack is nullified. For every time you do this you take a -2 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn, making you more vulnerable to other enemies and to attacks that get through your guard.

Execution
Usable with: Any crossbow, any dagger, scythe, falchion
As a standard action, perform a Coup de Grace.

Flurry
Usable with: Unarmed strike, any special monk weapon
As a standard action, perform a single attack and any extra attacks your flurry of blows would give you if you'd performed a full attack, with the appropriate penalties (if any).

Focus defense
Special: Must be within reach of more than one foe that is intent on harming you or your allies
Usable with: Any shield
As a free action, pick a foe that you are within reach of. The bonuses to AC your shield grants you are doubled against that foe until the start of your next turn, but removed against any other foe.

Great cleavage
Usable with: Scythe, any axe
Attack as a standard or full round action - any attack may target two adjacent squares within your reach simultaneously, but you do not apply your strength bonus to damage.

Harvest
Usable with: Scythe, sickle.
As a standard action, pick a number of opponents within reach and perform an attack against each of them. You are treated as nonproficient with scythes and sickles for a number of rounds equal to the number of foes who took no damage from these attacks.

Hew
Usable with: Any axe
Attack as a standard or full round action - your attacks ignore the target's damage reduction, but afterwards until the end of your next turn the target is considered to have bonus AC equal to their damage reduction against you.

Hybrid style
Usable with: Any ranged weapon, any melee weapon
Attack as a standard or full round action - at the end of the action you sheathe your weapon and cannot draw a weapon of that same type (melee or ranged) until the end of your next turn. If you attacked with a melee weapon your ranged attacks deal extra damage equal to your str mod next until the end of your next turn and if you attacked with a ranged weapon your melee attacks deal extra damage equal to your dex mod until the end of your next turn.

Iaijutsu focus
Usable with: Any one handed sword or light weapon
Special: Must not have a weapon drawn
As a standard action you draw your weapon and attempt to strike your opponent before he can react. You and your foe both make a reflex check - whoever wins is treated as having just attacked and threatened a critical hit with a critical modifier of x3. If the reflex checks result in a draw neither party attacks and anyone with quick draw gains a +4 bonus on the reflex check.

Memorise style
Usable with: Any monk special weapon, unarmed attack, any crossbow
As part of a full attack or standard attack against a single, take a -2 penalty to all attacks and provoke an attack of opportunity from your foe for doing so. If the opponent makes an attack of opportunity, roll an autohypnosis check - if it is higher than your foe's attack roll for the rest of the encounter you may, as an immediate action, make an attack of opportunity against him whenever that opponent makes one of his own. If the opponent does not make an attack of opportunity in response to this maneuver he is dazed until the end of his next turn.

Multiple missile massacre
Usable with: Any light throwing weapon.
As a full round action, make a sleight of hand check and throw one throwing weapon per target at a number of targets equal to your result on the table below.
5 or less: Attack yourself, no other targets
6-11: One target
11-17: Two targets
18-25: Three targets
26-34: Four targets
35-44: Five targets
45+: All targets within range

Pummel
Usable with: Any blunt weapon, light or heavy shield.
Special: Must be wielding both a shield and blunt weapon (two shields is acceptable)
Attack with your weapon as a standard or full round action - every time you deal damage with your blunt weapon you may slam the target with your shield, attacking at the same attack bonus as your weapon and dealing damage equal to your strength modifier and reducing their fortitude save by 1 until the start of your next turn every time you hit.

Quick feint
Usable with: Any light weapon, rapier
Special: Must be dual-wielding melee weapons
As a standard action, make a feint check and perform a single attack with both weapons. If the feint check is successful, your opponent is denied his dexterity bonus to AC for the lowest of your attack rolls. If your BAB is 6+ your opponent is denied his bonus for one of your attacks (your choice) and if your BAB is 11+ he is denied his dexterity bonus to AC for both attacks.

Relentless march
Usable with: Any shield
As a standard action, move up to your speed - immediately and until the beginning of your next turn, you gain a bonus to skill checks and saves to resist movement impairing effects equal to the AC bonus your shield grants you.

Salvo
Usable with: Any ranged weapon with a reload time longer than a free action.
As a full round action, make a full attack - every time you damage a target, you may reload your weapon as a free action. If you miss you must spend a full round action to reload your weapon again.

Sheathe and shock
Special: Must start this maneuver with a one handed weapon in one hand and nothing in the other hand
Usable with: Any one handed weapon
As a move action, sheathe your weapon and move up to half your speed. Until the end of your next turn, you are treated as having the improved grapple, improved bull rush, improved trip, improved disarm and improved overrun feats.

Shield rush
Usable with: Heavy shield, extreme shield, tower shield
As a move action, perform a bull rush with a bonus on your strength check equal to your shield's AC value. You lose your shield's shield bonus to AC until the start of your next unless you have the improved shield bash feat.

Shorten grip
Usable with: Any reach weapon
As a move action, shorten your reach - you now threaten squares adjacent to you but your weapon no longer counts as a reach weapon until you take another move action to return to your original stance

Skewer
Usable with: Any spear, lance
As a standard action, make an attack roll - if your weapon deals damage the spear is stuck in the target, causing the target to bleed for damage equal to your strength modifier x1 (increase the multiple by 1 for every extra attack you would have made if you'd made a full attack) every round unless it is pulled out as a full round action which causes the same damage as the weapon did going in. A successful heal check (DC equal to the original attack) allows the weapon to be pulled out with no damage.

Skyfire
Usable with: Any bow, sling
Attack as a standard or full round action - your missiles ignore the effects of any weather effect and deal bonus damage equal to your dex mod, but afterwards you may not fire at any target that is in contact with the ground until the end of your next turn.

Skullsplitter
Usable with: Heavy mace, morningstar, any flail, any pick, warhammer, gnome hooked hammer.
As a full round action, perform a single attack - your opponent makes a fortitude save against (1/2 HD+str mod) and if he passes the attack is negated. If the attack is not negated, deal [W] damage to the target's intelligence. If your BAB is 6 or higher you may perform this as part of a charge and if your BAB is 11+ you may perform this is as a standard action.

Weaken
Usable with: Sap, whip or bola.
As part of a full attack or standard attack you can decide to convert all nonlethal damage to a strength penalty at a rate of -1 to strength per 10 nonlethal damage traded in.

Eslin
2013-03-05, 03:02 AM
Anyone? Primarily looking for extra ideas and remarks on balance.

inuyasha
2013-03-05, 09:25 AM
Well im not that good with stuff like this but i think its pretty cool and pretty balanced :smallbiggrin:

Yitzi
2013-03-05, 09:45 AM
Here's an idea: Something to let bow users get big bonuses (attack bonus and maybe precision damage) against flying enemies.

Eslin
2013-03-05, 10:30 AM
Oooo, I like that last one. I'm trying to make each type of weapon feel different - an axe wielder is good at taking down multiple foes, a heavy weapon wielder is better at cleaving through armour and DR, a sword user is better at duels and parries, etc - having bows work best against airborne enemies really gives them a niche.

Yitzi
2013-03-05, 01:48 PM
Oooo, I like that last one. I'm trying to make each type of weapon feel different - an axe wielder is good at taking down multiple foes, a heavy weapon wielder is better at cleaving through armour and DR, a sword user is better at duels and parries, etc - having bows work best against airborne enemies really gives them a niche.

It's also a nice way to give fighters a better chance against wizards, at least if you reduce the effectiveness of Wind Wall.

Another idea is to have crossbows also be good at cleaving through armor and maybe DR.

Eslin
2013-03-05, 09:17 PM
I think I might use shields for the anti wind wall thing, and crossbows I'm going for more of a close range utility thing than a big thing killer.

Roland St. Jude
2013-03-05, 10:32 PM
The title is lies, I just wanted to get you all in here to have a look. Now that you're here...

Anyone? Primarily looking for extra ideas and remarks on balance.Sheriff: Don't make misleading thread titles just to lure people into the thread and don't treat bump threads. If no one wants to talk about X, so be it.

If you want to try again in a more appropriate manner, please feel free.