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Asmodeus
2006-11-12, 06:56 PM
This is my first feat I've attempted to write myself. Be gentle but fair in your criticism.

I made this feat in reply to Alicritous Cogitation from Complete Mage. Where that feat is meant for prepared spell casters, this will apply to spontaneous casters.

Spontaneous Cogitation
With this feat, you can attempt to spontaneously cast a magic spell on your spell list, even if its not one of your known spells.

Prerequisites: Ability to Spontaneously cast spells.
Benefit: You can sacrifice two of your daily spell slots to attempt to cast any spell on your spell list of the same level or lower. Casting the spell requires a full round action.
You can only use this ability once per day.
Roll a d20 + 1/2 Caster Level + Casting Ability modifier. The DC to successfully cast the desired spell is DC 25 + Spell Level.
However, there is a 5% chance that you will suffer a magical backlash.

So if you are level 5 Sorcerer with a charisma of 18, who didn't learn Cat's Grace, you could sacrafice two level 2 daily spell slots to attempt to cast it. Your total modifier would be 6 (2 Caster Level, 4 CHA modifer) The DC is 27. You would need to roll a 19 or 20 better in order to cast the spell. The same sorcerer at level 14 would need to roll a 16 or better.

If you roll a natural 1, you are dazed until the end of your next turn.

[hr]
The potential benefits to this feat are impressive, but the difficulty in making a successful check should hopefully keep it from being overpowering. Any other suggestions would be welcome.

And thanks to Golthur for putting the idea in my head.

Rama_Lei
2006-11-12, 07:00 PM
I like it. I'm not aware of it's counterpart, but I like it. Alos, i tyhink this belongs in Homebrew!

Asmodeus
2006-11-12, 07:07 PM
If it does belong elsewhere, I appologize and ask the mods to kindly move it and let me know.

Goff
2006-11-12, 07:07 PM
Quite a cool idea, I like it.

Seffbasilisk
2006-11-12, 07:07 PM
Too weak.

If the modifier is +6 only a nat 20 can help you. Why not add full caster level, and roll d100. A 1 sends an inevitable or a god's minion of some sort that's pissed off that you're reaching for magic you cannot control. That or some other negative thing.

MrNexx
2006-11-12, 07:08 PM
It's not worth it... the DC is too high. At 14th level, they've got a 25% chance of pulling off a 2nd level spell (assuming at least 2 increases to stats went to Charisma). I'm not going to spend a feat for that small of a chance, especially when there's a 5% chance of backlash and its costing me a good chunk of resources (2 spells per day).

I'd drop the DC to 20+spell level. It's a lot more doable. The other option might be to make it a Spellcraft check with a DC equal to 25+twice the spell level. That makes it pretty hard on beginning Sorcerers (27), but more doable as you increase, especially given the resource cost of this feat (spending a feat plus two spell slots when used).

I'd also drop the chance of magical backlash, or make it more similar to a failed use on a scroll (i.e. a Wisdom check to avoid backlash; perhaps 5+spell level)

Seeker Of Truth
2006-11-12, 07:10 PM
I also think you did a very nice job with this feat. I thought at first that you were going to make the feat over powerful, but I don't think it is. My only criticism is that the 1/2 caster level in the formula is a bit awkward.

Miles Invictus
2006-11-12, 07:12 PM
I like the premise, but there's no way in hell I'd take it. At level 20, I'll have around a +15 to the roll, meaning I'd have about a 50% chance to fail at a simple cantrip. Level 9 spells would fail about 90% of the time. And whether I succeed or not, I sacrifice two spell slots.

I think I'd be better off taking a metamagic feat and planning my spells known really carefully. Maybe if it didn't burn spell slots on a failed casting, or if there was no chance of failure.

Asmodeus
2006-11-12, 07:20 PM
I based the backlash on the Psionic rules for the Wilder and his Psionic Enervation. It seems like a comparable option.

I also would expect a level 14 sorc to have gotten a cloak of charisma to increase his chances a little more in addition to the stat adjustments every 4 levels.

The reason I want the DC to be difficult is that the potential here is pretty massive. Consider being able to cast any spell on your spell list without preparation or knowledge of it. I am fearful of someone being able to cast wish or miracle once a day without sacraficing anything major for that ability.

What about half caster level and DC 20 + spell level? would that be better?

I'm also considering Greater Spontaneous Cogitation. Similar, but you can pick any spell, even not on your spell list.

BardicLasher
2006-11-12, 07:21 PM
It's a once-per-day feat that's almost certain to fail... It's just not worth it.

Hmm... Sac two spell slots to cast a spell one level lower that you don't know isn't bad, but it needs a lower drawback... Maybe drop the check to 15+Spell level?

Pegasos989
2006-11-12, 07:36 PM
As others have said, it is good but horribly weak.

"Your total modifier would be 6 (2 Caster Level, 4 CHA modifer) The DC is 27. You would need to roll a 19 or 20 better in order to cast the spell."
You miscalculated. DC 27, +6 modifier, only natural 20 works (if it even does on CL checks) so 90% chance you simply spend 2 spell slots for nothing, 5% chance to succeed and 5% to backslash.

I would say DC 20+spell level, you use full casterlevel, no cha mod. No per day limitation, 1 spell slot only, no backslash.

10th level sorcerer would need to roll 12 (40% chance) to cast 2nd level spell. He has 60% chance to fail and thus do nothing the whole round (and still spend a slot) while the best case scenario is that he casts 2nd level spell he didn't know. Now, at 20th level it means a sorcerer knows all 1st and practically all other spells too and I admit that this my way is toooooo good at 20th level, but most games I play in are between 1-16 and it isn't that bad in those.

MrNexx
2006-11-12, 07:36 PM
I based the backlash on the Psionic rules for the Wilder and his Psionic Enervation. It seems like a comparable option.

Not familiar with the psionics rules. Looking at them, however, it seems to be a poor fit for the spell slot system.


I also would expect a level 14 sorc to have gotten a cloak of charisma to increase his chances a little more in addition to the stat adjustments every 4 levels.

Yes, but assuming he dumps a fair chunk into a +6 Cloak of Charisma, his chance only improves by 15%... for a once-per-day shot that you're having to spend a feat and two spell slots on, it's too expensive.


The reason I want the DC to be difficult is that the potential here is pretty massive. Consider being able to cast any spell on your spell list without preparation or knowledge of it. I am fearful of someone being able to cast wish or miracle once a day without sacraficing anything major for that ability.

If they have the capability to cast wish or miracle this way, they could've learned it as one of their normal spells per day. They could be spamming miracles, instead of chance-casting them.


What about half caster level and DC 20 + spell level? would that be better?

Far more reasonable. And I'd also drop the 1/day restriction (I'd forgotten it in my first response).


I'm also considering Greater Spontaneous Cogitation. Similar, but you can pick any spell, even not on your spell list.

That one seems reasonable, as well.

Mewtarthio
2006-11-12, 07:50 PM
I based the backlash on the Psionic rules for the Wilder and his Psionic Enervation. It seems like a comparable option.

Except the Wilder only has a five percent chance per augmentation point of suffering enervation (or what is ten?). Granted, she still effectively loses her power if she suffers an enervation, but it's far less likely to occur. Also, it's not really a comparable power since augmenting powers mostly results in more enemies targeted and higher save DCs, rather than entirely new powers.

Golthur
2006-11-12, 08:45 PM
Yes, as a class ability for Sorcerers that they gain automatically, it's fine to have both the daily limit and the risk of surge. For a feat that they have to take (and Sorcerers get too few feat slots for this sort of thing as it is), it's much too weak.

My original thought was for it to be a class ability with a 1/day limit at <whatever> level (probably not 1st), and then automatically incremented every four or five sorcerer levels.

If you're forced to sacrifice a feat for it, I'd either keep it as double-slots with no daily limit, or keep the daily limit but with single slot cost only.

Others have already commented on the DC, so I won't :smile:

Asmodeus
2006-11-12, 10:02 PM
I definetly want to keep the possibility for backlash on a Natural 1, but I could see making a will save at the same DC of the caster check to avoid it.

I never want it to be a sure thing that this will succeed either, so for a level 20 sorc, a level 0 spell should still have only a 95% chance of success. And a level 9 spell shouldn't have more than 40% chance.

Squatting_Monk
2006-11-12, 11:49 PM
I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so if someone did, I apologize for saying it again.

I noticed you said the casting time is a full-round action. What about spells whose casting is normally longer than that (say, to pick one at random, sepia snake sigil, which takes ten minutes to cast)? You should probably include a note that spells that take longer than a standard action have their casting time doubled or some such.

Other than that and the DC thing everyone's commented on, I like it. Heps Sorcerers out a lot, especially with their limited spell lists. It also fits the character class, since they should be able to sculpt arcane power to their wills (though it's more difficult to do so if you know little or nothing about the spell you want to cast). Great job. :smallsmile:

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-13, 01:02 AM
A d100 is about right, just like with spell faliure.

lsfreak
2006-11-13, 02:13 AM
As said, I'd say either drop the daily limit, or reduce the spell slots to one (although just 1/day still seems a bit weak to me... would 2/day be out of line considering the chacne for failure).
I also like what was said about a d%, probably with failure. You fail, you have varying levels of bad effects, from being dazed to temporary damage to "oops, you just pissed off the god of magic," with modifiers based on spell level. That might be too much detail, but I likes favor stuff added into game mechanics :P