Awaken + reincarnate

[ericgrau]

Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) awakens a tree or animal into "human-like sentience". Does that mean it has a soul and so on?

A tree I awakened got killed. Can I reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) him into the body of a gnome or whatever other humanoid I randomly roll? The awakened tree has no class levels nor a con score, but he does have hit dice. Does he retain these hit dice (minus 1) once he becomes a humanoid? If not, does he take any penalties at all from the reincarnate?

[Zanthy1]

Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) awakens a tree or animal into "human-like sentience". Does that mean it has a soul and so on?

A tree I awakened got killed. Can I reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) him into the body of a gnome or whatever other humanoid I randomly roll? The awakened tree has no class levels nor a con score, but he does have hit dice. Does he retain these hit dice (minus 1) once he becomes a humanoid? If not, does he take any penalties at all from the reincarnate?

I have no idea what RAW has to say about this, but if I were your DM I would throw a book at you, then immediately let you do it. I think the book throwing would be a reflexive action when it comes to things like this, but generally I think its a super cool idea lol

[mattie_p]

Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) awakens a tree or animal into "human-like sentience". Does that mean it has a soul and so on?

A tree I awakened got killed. Can I reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) him into the body of a gnome or whatever other humanoid I randomly roll? The awakened tree has no class levels nor a con score, but he does have hit dice. Does he retain these hit dice (minus 1) once he becomes a humanoid? If not, does he take any penalties at all from the reincarnate?

I know there is a lot of confusion on awakened trees, but they should have a con score. Although you use stats and characteristics of animated objects, check the type entry for plants.


This type comprises vegetable creatures. Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores (see Nonabilities) and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive.

So a regular plant has a con score, it just is undetermined by RAW. Therefore an awakened tree also has a con score, it is similarly undetermined by RAW.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Based on the above, logic might suggest that if you reincarnate said killed tree, apply the new NPC with a -2 penalty for Con on their randomly rolled attributes.

I find it interesting that "Tree" is not one of the reincarnated races. Maybe it may be appropriate to use "Treant" for a score of 100?

[Devils_Advocate]

Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) awakens a tree or animal into "human-like sentience". Does that mean it has a soul and so on?
Heck, animals already have souls. They can even become ghosts. I dunno about unawakened trees, but awakened trees presumably do.


A tree I awakened got killed. Can I reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) him into the body of a gnome or whatever other humanoid I randomly roll?
No, you'd use a table of plant creatures if reincarnating a plant creature.

Also, reincarnate is horribly vague a la metaconcert and randomly screws with game balance a la the Deck of Many Things. It's... best not to use it as written.

[Phelix-Mu]

Also, reincarnate is horribly vague a la metaconcert and randomly screws with game balance a la the Deck of Many Things. It's... best not to use it as written.

I always wanted to play a CN druid with far too much money and a penchant for casting last breath on anything and everything that dies in his presence. Just for laughs.

[Quorothorn]

I imagine this is one of those "in-depth conversations with the DM" subjects. (I'd certainly "allow" it, and the spell description implies it is possible, but does not seem to state so outright.)

Meanwhile, the SRD says "For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created." so there you go, you wouldn't be using the table provided.

[Devils_Advocate]

I always wanted to play a CN druid with far too much money and a penchant for casting last breath on anything and everything that dies in his presence. Just for laughs.
Y'know, that spell really illustrates how implausibly quickly casters are supposed to performs certain actions with material components. "Spread over the remains" in about 3 seconds? Please. I'm imagining this guy just chucking water balloons at his targets. Sounds fitting, really.

[Phelix-Mu]

Y'know, that spell really illustrates how implausibly quickly casters are supposed to performs certain actions with material components. "Spread over the remains" in about 3 seconds? Please. I'm imagining this guy just chucking water balloons at his targets. Sounds fitting, really.

Just had a great image of the druid taking the material component, jumping NBA-style, reaching up to grab the departing soul, and then slam-dunking it back into the newly remade body.

*ahem*

But, back on topic, I would agree that animals probably have souls (there is even good-aligned Outer Plane that is filled mostly with animals--the Beastlands). A DM may rule that plants also have souls, just very small and nondescript ones. Clearly the soul of a sentient creature is what is normally referred to in the rules by the term "soul" (though there is mention somewhere of raising animals and such, I believe).

I also agree that reincarnated plant creatures should probably come back as other plant creatures.

[Clistenes]

I think the RAW suggested that, if you cast reincarnate to bring back a non-humanoid creature the DM should create a reincarnation table with creatures of the same type as the one you are bringing back to life. So Aberrations for your awakened tree and Magical Beasts for an awakened animal.

Since Aberrations suffer from massive social hindrances, I suggest that, as compensation, the reincarnated character gets all the Supernatural and Extraordinary special qualities and attacks, spell-like included, of its new species.

Of course, the new creature may decide not to follow you anymore, or may require that you take the Leadership Feat in order to be kept as cohort.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think the RAW suggested that, if you cast reincarnate to bring back a non-humanoid creature the DM should create a reincarnation table with creatures of the same type as the one you are bringing back to life. So Aberrations for your awakened tree and Magical Beasts for an awakened animal.

?? Huh, did I miss something?:smallconfused:

[Clistenes]

?? Huh, did I miss something?:smallconfused:

Crystalkeep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20) says that awakened trees are Aberrations, or at least that "...gains skill points & feats appropriate for an ‘aberration’ of its HD...". The original text of the spell doesn't mention the type of the awakened tree, but Crystalkeep is quite reliable, so i guess they must have taken the information from some errata or official supplement.

EDIT: Bummer. Crystalkeep removed their rules compendium files.

EDIT AGAIN: The original text says that the awakened tree gets the plant type...so the Crystalkeep files were wrong.

[Phelix-Mu]

Crystalkeep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20) says that awakened trees are Aberrations, or at least that "...gains skill points & feats appropriate for an ‘aberration’ of its HD...". The original text of the spell doesn't mention the type of the awakened tree, but Crystalkeep is quite reliable, so i guess they must have taken the information from some errata or official supplement.

Weird place to take it. Especially given the normal precedent for druid/aberration relations (READ: very poor).

I really don't see any reason to suggest that an awakened tree would not become a plant creature, and the only thing that separates plant creatures from plants is the self-awareness that distinguishes creatures from objects, awareness that is granted by awaken.

[Clistenes]

Weird place to take it. Especially given the normal precedent for druid/aberration relations (READ: very poor).

I really don't see any reason to suggest that an awakened tree would not become a plant creature, and the only thing that separates plant creatures from plants is the self-awareness that distinguishes creatures from objects, awareness that is granted by awaken.

I have searched the Player's Handbook and yes, Crystalkeep was wrong and the awakened tree is a plant creature. I guess that was some kind of errata.

[Urpriest]

I have searched the Player's Handbook and yes, Crystalkeep was wrong and the awakened tree is a plant creature. I guess that was some kind of errata.

Unlikely. Crystalkeep notoriously has all sorts of silly typos and mistakes in it, like the Xvart's LA -2.

[Clistenes]

Unlikely. Crystalkeep notoriously has all sorts of silly typos and mistakes in it, like the Xvart's LA -2.

Well, that's exactly what I said, that the Aberration Type is an errata/typo of Crystalkeep.

[ericgrau]

Thanks guys. I was worried that a tree might not want to end up as a bugbear, but a random plant creature makes everything work out nicely... well for me. The DM is probably going to have a headache.

Looking at the various scary plant creatures out there this should be... interesting.

[nedz]

Just had a great image of the druid taking the material component, jumping NBA-style, reaching up to grab the departing soul, and then slam-dunking it back into the newly remade body.


?? Huh, did I miss something?:smallconfused:

Last Breath has no material component /nitpick