What level 2 wiz spell would you pick given these parameters?

[killem2]

Ok, I'm a Focused Specialist, Spell Gifted, Conjurer 3 and just turned Master Speciliast 1.

I banned evocation, enchantment, necromancy. (we both have colliegete wizard feat)

We have another wizard in our party who is just straight wizard. He was going to pick Mirror Image and Glitter dust and invisbility.

I already have alter self, summon monster 2, cloud of bewilderment, and web.

So I plan on getting glitter, invisibility, and mirror image from him.

What would you pick at this point?

[Aracor]

Good picks would include Rope Trick, Heroics, Heart of Air (for future synergy with the other heart spells), Wraithstrike if you're into hitting things, Swift Fly or Levitate...

It kind of depends on what it is you're looking for.

[Venger]

mirror move is pretty sweet. make sure your dm tells you whether or not it can destroy the ocean.

[hypnotoad]

Rope Trick
Fog Cloud
Dimension Hop

Get Glitterdust anyways (and pair it with see invisiblity / true seeing on higher levels)

[killem2]

Good picks would include Rope Trick, Heroics, Heart of Air (for future synergy with the other heart spells), Wraithstrike if you're into hitting things, Swift Fly or Levitate...

It kind of depends on what it is you're looking for.

Well, I'm full blown into summoning, so I'm not usually casting non-summon monster spells, but I do leave a few open. Rope Trick, is a winner here. Heart of Air looks pretty cool, but I do tend to stay in the back and just fill the room with baddies.

Heroics could come in handy. Our party is made of up a Petal Psion, Ghost elf Wizard, Halfling Conjurer/MS (me), Elf Rogue, Half Giant Psychic Warrior.

Wraithstrike, not so much, I don't like getting up in the fray :D.

Swift Fly is pretty friggin awesome. I am getting that.

Levitate, pretty cool, laste for a damn long time in battle too.

As far as what I am looking for, just good stuff spells, because my bread and butter is summon monster spells but being able to have versitility will go a long way.




mirror move is pretty sweet. make sure your dm tells you whether or not it can destroy the ocean.

I could not find this spell. Where are the details?



Rope Trick
Fog Cloud
Dimension Hop

Get Glitterdust anyways (and pair it with see invisiblity / true seeing on higher levels)

Fog Cloud could be useful in combo with the other wizards aoe damage spells or other crowd control spells.

Dimension Hop. I was considering this spell. But with benign transposition, and two psicrystals available to use, I can do some major swapping.

Why would you suggest glitterdust if I can learn it from my friend? Would it not be best to maximize our spell slots from each other?

[Pickford]

Ok, I'm a Focused Specialist, Spell Gifted, Conjurer 3 and just turned Master Speciliast 1.

I banned evocation, enchantment, necromancy. (we both have colliegete wizard feat)

We have another wizard in our party who is just straight wizard. He was going to pick Mirror Image and Glitter dust and invisbility.

I already have alter self, summon monster 2, cloud of bewilderment, and web.

So I plan on getting glitter, invisibility, and mirror image from him.

What would you pick at this point?

Cruel answer: Baleful Transposition (get into a bad spot, then cast putting that competitor mage in your place)

Realistic answer: Insight of Good Fortune (Divination, PHB II); has a great duration for the level (1 min/level) and works on practically any check.

[Slipperychicken]

Cruel answer: Baleful Transposition (get your ally or familiar into a bad spot, then cast putting that competitor mage in your ally's or familiar's place)


Fixed it. Never get your squishy Wizard into melee.

[Venger]

I could not find this spell. Where are the details?

right here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a) continuing the noble tradition of D&D spells that are named after pokemon moves

[Randomguy]

Grab detect thoughts for sure. Also consider Energy Resistance.

[Flame of Anor]

right here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a) continuing the noble tradition of D&D spells that are named after pokemon moves

This is a really weird spell.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cloud of Knives, PH2, great with Extend/Persist and Fell Drain.

Obscuring Snow, Frostburn, game-breaking if your party has a Ranger or Druid or gets a pile of Potions of Snowsight, same book.

[killem2]

Ok Mirror Move is awesome. I don't have PBS or PS and two get those will help tons early on here. great spell, thanks for finding that for me.

Rope Trick
Fog Cloud
Levitate
Fly, Swift


Is what I had decided on, but I think I will drop out Fog Cloud I have to many monsters in melee to block them all like that. Beside I have obscuring mist, and I really like the idea of flying away as a swift action.

I'm still a little iffy on Levitate at the moment. I may keep it.

[Venger]

Ok Mirror Move is awesome. I don't have PBS or PS and two get those will help tons early on here. great spell, thanks for finding that for me.

Rope Trick
Fog Cloud
Levitate
Fly, Swift
oh yeah, it is pretty sweet.

why swift fly? how often will gaining a fly speed of 60ft (good) for 1 round be useful? especially if you're getting other stuff to fly, like levitate


Is what I had decided on, but I think I will drop out Fog Cloud I have to many monsters in melee to block them all like that. Beside I have obscuring mist, and I really like the idea of flying away as a swift action.

I'm still a little iffy on Levitate at the moment. I may keep it.
fog cloud is indeed not useful. what exactly is your impetus between wanting to fly as a swift ?

[Vaz]

Presumably for Full Attack and Move for a none Pounce Barbarian, Fighter etc

Trying to work out exactly why it would destroy the sea, then it hit me.

It is useful to instantly destroy that annoying tanks full plate armour. Or when your own parties meatshield begins getting too big for his boots after grest cleaves 3 kobolds in one round.

[Twilightwyrm]

Presumably for Full Attack and Move for a none Pounce Barbarian, Fighter etc

Trying to work out exactly why it would destroy the sea, then it hit me.

It is useful to instantly destroy that annoying tanks full plate armour. Or when your own parties meatshield begins getting too big for his boots after grest cleaves 3 kobolds in one round.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm not getting how any of these things would work (either destroying the sea, destroying someone's armor, or showing up your ally).

[Khatoblepas]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm not getting how any of these things would work (either destroying the sea, destroying someone's armor, or showing up your ally).

Material Component: Any reflective surface, including highly polished shields or armor and even surfaces of water, can be used for this spell. Many spellcasters carry small mirrors with them for material components. (http://wallpaperscraft.com/image/clouds_sky_sea_reflection_mirror_evening_61640_192 0x1200.jpg)


A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process.

[Flame of Anor]

Material Component: Any reflective surface, including highly polished shields or armor and even surfaces of water, can be used for this spell. Many spellcasters carry small mirrors with them for material components. (http://wallpaperscraft.com/image/clouds_sky_sea_reflection_mirror_evening_61640_192 0x1200.jpg)


A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process.


http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001109331/HA_HA_HA_OH_WOW_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg

[killem2]

fog cloud is indeed not useful. what exactly is your impetus between wanting to fly as a swift ?

Ya know, I think I was reading it wrong. I don't know why I did, but I thought Levitate forced me to make a concentration check or a spell fails. Nothing like that is even present on that spell.

So, I suppose fly is out, (which I can get with level 4 spells anyway) and levitate is in.

So, Rope Trick, Levitate, Mirror Move.

Still one more then.

[Slipperychicken]

Material Component: Any reflective surface, including highly polished shields or armor and even surfaces of water, can be used for this spell. Many spellcasters carry small mirrors with them for material components. (http://wallpaperscraft.com/image/clouds_sky_sea_reflection_mirror_evening_61640_192 0x1200.jpg)

There was a whole thread on Mirror Move a while back. Not sure who suggested bodies of water there, but it's a pretty big game-buster.

Also, if oceans are considered material components without a listed price, wouldn't that mean you have an ocean sitting in your spell component pouch?

[Fates]

Speaking of mirrors, Mirror Image is an awesome spell to take as well. It gives better protection than displacement, can be used for countless shenanigans, and is arguably one of the coolest looking spells out there.

[killem2]

Speaking of mirrors, Mirror Image is an awesome spell to take as well. It gives better protection than displacement, can be used for countless shenanigans, and is arguably one of the coolest looking spells out there.

Yup, got a buddy wizard in the party who is picking that up.

[Marnath]

Fixed it. Never get your squishy Wizard into melee.

You're thinking of benign transposition, which is a level 1 spell. Baleful transposition doesn't require willing targets.

[Venger]

Ya know, I think I was reading it wrong. I don't know why I did, but I thought Levitate forced me to make a concentration check or a spell fails. Nothing like that is even present on that spell.

So, I suppose fly is out, (which I can get with level 4 spells anyway) and levitate is in.

that explains that.

fly is a third level spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) not a fourth

[killem2]

that explains that.

fly is a third level spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) not a fourth

Christ, I knew that, I don't know why I said fourth.

What do you guys think about Ashstar?

http://dndtools.eu/spells/sandstorm--85/ashstar--3129/

as a summoner. I mean, slapping that over a target getting swarmed by my summoned creations could become fatigued pretty easy.

[ericgrau]

Fatigue with a 1-3 round delay to wait for damage + a failed save doesn't sound like much of a debuff.

You already have plenty of the main spells so I'd start looking into secondary spells like see invisibility, locate object, resist energy, levitate and bull's strength. I wouldn't necessarily prepare these at level 4, but pretty soon you're going to want a couple so might as well grab them early. Rope trick could work if you can squeeze in 2 copies, otherwise I'd wait.

Any of the swift spells in spell compendium are great too, likewise to give you something more to do while you're calling down 3rd level spells with your standard action.

Given your list so far I'd get see invisibility. Maybe locate object if your party tends to hunt for a lot of objects or for foes who carry 1 or more objects that aren't too common.

[Slipperychicken]

You're thinking of benign transposition, which is a level 1 spell. Baleful transposition doesn't require willing targets.

I meant that the Wizard would get his own familiar into the tough spot, then cast Baleful Transposition switch his opponent into the tough spot. All this without the Wizard risking his squishy d4s in melee.

[Venger]

Fatigue with a 1-3 round delay to wait for damage + a failed save doesn't sound like much of a debuff.

You already have plenty of the main spells so I'd start looking into secondary spells like see invisibility, locate object, resist energy, levitate and bull's strength. I wouldn't necessarily prepare these at level 4, but pretty soon you're going to want a couple so might as well grab them early. Rope trick could work if you can squeeze in 2 copies, otherwise I'd wait.

Any of the swift spells in spell compendium are great too, likewise to give you something more to do while you're calling down 3rd level spells with your standard action.

Given your list so far I'd get see invisibility. Maybe locate object if your party tends to hunt for a lot of objects or for foes who carry 1 or more objects that aren't too common.
while see invisibility is indeed a must-have spell until you have the time to permanency it, I question how often OP will run into invisible monsters at level 3.

Does this happen to you a lot? does your DM throw a lot of invisible monsters at you? if so, by all means invest in it, but it's a good example of a spell that can be delayed later until on and dealt with in the interim via scrolls. they're not expensive

[ericgrau]

Like I said I figured it's time to prepare for the future since he already has plenty of level 2 spells for present needs; many more good ones than he can prepare. And he's level 4 I believe.

I don't think I'd prepare any of the spells on my list at level 3 or 4. They're all for later. Ya scrolls of see invis are good too, but while more useful at lower levels they're also expensive on a low level budget. The other advantage of the prepared version is the duration. In a few levels you can extend 3 copies via a rod and you're good for 8 hours of travel. Otherwise you don't know you should cast it until after you're hit.

[killem2]

Fatigue with a 1-3 round delay to wait for damage + a failed save doesn't sound like much of a debuff.

My thought process on it was, if I summon 1d4+1 monster around the target with this over their head, especially if I start getting into monsters with multiple his per full attack, doesn't the fort save or fail become, almost irrelevant due to the higher probability of getting even one hit in?

I looked up dehydrated in the rules comp, and it says this:

Dehydrated: Creatures that have taken nonlethal damage from lack of water are considered dehydrated and become fatigued. In addition, if a dehydrated creature would take nonlethal damage from hot conditions (see page 155), that damage instead becomes lethal damage.


Now I may be wrong here, but since they are considered dehydrated upon failing the same, by the RAW they become fatigued:

Fatigued

A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

I suppose it is a minor debuff.

As far as invisibility, my buddy wizard is picking that up so I can learn that from his book. :smallbiggrin:

[Spuddles]

Ray of Stupidity. I forgot if enchantment is on your ban list, but your buddy should pick it up and you should get glitterdust.

It's 1d4+1 int damage. One shots animals, hydras, and some of the stupider giants with a little metamagic.

It's truly brutal.

[ericgrau]

As far as invisibility, my buddy wizard is picking that up so I can learn that from his book. :smallbiggrin:
But what about see invisibility? It's one of the most generally useful utility spells later on. Not now, as pointed out, but later on it's nice. Otherwise there's locate object and resist energy.

Bull's strength might be ok for scribing onto scrolls, for any rare time you get 3 or 4 buffing rounds and want to make the buffing epic (in combination with whatever you do the other 2-3 rounds). But right now I assume you summon and then later you could haste.

[killem2]

But what about see invisibility? It's one of the most generally useful utility spells later on. Not now, as pointed out, but later on it's nice. Otherwise there's locate object and resist energy.

Bull's strength might be ok for scribing onto scrolls, for any rare time you get 3 or 4 buffing rounds and want to make the buffing epic (in combination with whatever you do the other 2-3 rounds). But right now I assume you summon and then later you could haste.

I don't doubt the power, but couldn't summon bats or spiders with blindsense/tremorsense find them too?

[ericgrau]

I don't doubt the power, but couldn't summon bats or spiders with blindsense/tremorsense find them too?
They still have 50% miss chance even though they can select the right square to hit, and that doesn't help you and your party as much either. See invis works well in combination with glitterdust.

[PurpleSocks]

Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet,

Create Magic Tattoo (Conj); requires a few skill points but it offers your choice of a few nice 24 hour buffs that scale as you level.

If you use a rod of extend you can cast it every other day or choose two of the benefits

This spell creates a single magic tattoo.
You determine the exact type of tattoo, though the selection is limited by your caster level, as indicated below.
You must possess a modicum of artistic talent to sketch the desired tattoo—at least 1 rank of Craft (drawing), Craft (painting), Craft (calligraphy), or a similar Craft skill.
Inscribing a magic tattoo requires a successful Craft check.
The DC varies with the kind of tattoo, as noted below.
If you are a 3rd- to 6th-level caster, you can inscribe a tattoo that generates any one of the following effects (Craft DC 10).

+2 resistance bonus on one type of saving throw (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will).
+1 luck bonus on attack rolls.
+1 deflection bonus to AC.


At 7th to 12th caster level, you can add the following tattoos to the list that you can inscribe (Craft DC 15):

+2 resistance bonus on all saving throws.
+2 competence bonus on attack rolls.


When your caster level reaches 13th, you may add the following to the list of tattoos you can inscribe (Craft DC 20).

Spell resistance equal to 10 + 1/six caster levels.
+2 enhancement bonus to any one ability score.
+1 level of spellcasting ability.


This effect increases the subject's effective level, but not the total number of spells.
For example, an 11th-level caster who receives this tattoo functions as a 12th-level caster for the purpose of determining level-based spell variables (such as range, area, effect, and so on), but he does not receive any extra spells.
A single creature can have only three magic tattoos at a time.
Any attempt to apply more than that automatically fails.
A successful erase spell removes a single magic tattoo.
A successful dispel magic spell can remove multiple magic tattoos if targeted on the creature bearing them (see the dispel magic spell description, page 223 of the Player's Handbook).
Material Components: Tattoo inks in appropriate colors costing at least 100 gp.
Focus: Tattoo needles.

[Venger]

Ray of Stupidity. I forgot if enchantment is on your ban list, but your buddy should pick it up and you should get glitterdust.

It's 1d4+1 int damage. One shots animals, hydras, and some of the stupider giants with a little metamagic.

It's truly brutal.

he banned ench, evoc, and necro.

I've been wanting to recommend entice gift and escalating enfeeblement, but that's not possible

[Spuddles]

Ooh, tattoo is pretty good. Kind of expensive, but pretty sweet.


he banned ench, evoc, and necro.

that's why I recommended the other wizard get it. It's that good.

[killem2]

I think at this point, I will snag:

Rope Trick
Mirror Move
Levitate
See Invisibility

and my buddy will snag

Mirror Image
Invisibility
Glitterdust

and ray of stupidity.

It is soo fun having two collegiate wizards lol.

[Spuddles]

I think at this point, I will snag:

Rope Trick
Mirror Move
Levitate
See Invisibility

and my buddy will snag

Mirror Image
Invisibility
Glitterdust

and ray of stupidity.

It is soo fun having two collegiate wizards lol.

Freakin casters :smallwink:

[killem2]

One more thing, do you think it is ok to give up see invisibility, if I have the creatures to find the targets, to which we can use glitter dust?

Are there any other level 2 spells you can recommend that I (because it would be me that has to take it), should take over see invisibility given the various tools we have?

If it helps, so far we are in a realm that had a war many years ago with chromatic dragons and we are in search of a source of a chromatic white dragon that apparently has risen and attacked various cities.

Most of the enemies we have fought thus far are dragon-kin. Kobolds, dragonspawns, that sorta thing. THis isn't to say story can shift and go to something else. But we have had very long battles with kobolds that had many class levels behind them so far, and one medium dragon.

[ericgrau]

If you have a way to speak with animals that makes sense. Or hope that they get adjacent to the invisible foe and then you just glitterdust your summon. Your summon may go blind, but oh well, that's only a 50% miss chance for a summon with blindsense/tremorsense. The thing about that that would make me nervous is that it's a 2 step process meaning your summon may die, then the foe moves away, then it's 2 rounds before you can try again. I'd at least pick up see invis around level 8 or so when you can extend it for 8 hours a day making it a 0 round response time to deal with invisible foes, rather than 1 to 4 rounds. Or depending on your DM invisible foes could take as long as level 14 to show up.

There are other viable choices too with their own benefits. In the end it's up to you. For example having resist energy instead of see invisibility could save your life against other types of foes. It's not as good until level 7, but then invisible foes probably won't show up until that level or later either. Likewise there are plenty of other good spells.

[killem2]

If you have a way to speak with animals that makes sense. Or hope that they get adjacent to the invisible foe and then you just glitterdust your summon. Your summon may go blind, but oh well, that's only a 50% miss chance for a summon with blindsense/tremorsense. The thing about that that would make me nervous is that it's a 2 step process meaning your summon may die, then the foe moves away, then it's 2 rounds before you can try again. I'd at least pick up see invis around level 8 or so when you can extend it for 8 hours a day making it a 0 round response time to deal with invisible foes, rather than 1 to 4 rounds. Or depending on your DM invisible foes could take as long as level 14 to show up.



I don't know why one needs to speak with animals. These would be my summoned spiders, and at the time I actually need to use them, I will probably be slinging around twinned or maximized summon monster 3 spiders won't I? Those are going to take up more space, see with out seeing, and just move to where I want to direct them.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to be devil's advocate or argue, or undermine your advice. I am just trying to be careful with precious spell slots :).