Malack was not invited in!!!

[Luna_Mayflower]

So, Vampires, in general, cannot enter any building unless they are invited in by someone with the authority to do so. Seeing as all the Draketooths are dead, and so cannot invite him into the temple, how was he able to enter it at all? No one else had the authority to invite him in, although quite why you'd invite a Vampire in, I'm not sure.

So, Malack, stay out! Malack, stay out!!!:smallmad::smallconfused::smallyuk:

[Porthos]

Owing to the fact that everyone was dead, it wasn't anyone's building anymore. And thus Open To The Public. :smallwink:

[Shale]

They can't enter a residence unless invited. A building populated solely by corpses is no longer anyone's home.

[Rui]

That's another of these vampire stereotypes? RACISM!

And seriously now, Rich never told us that he put those things in his mind. He can just ignore them, you know.

[hamishspence]

"Unless invited by someone with the authority to do so."

if it's technically within the Empire of Blood's borders, and if Tarquin has the authority to invite anyone into any Empire of Blood building, it works.

Alternatively, when everyone with any claim on a building is dead, that building becomes a "public space".

[JustWantedToSay]

Even in a world with magic, that one rule that doesn't make any sense. There'd have to be a vampire repelling spell on every door and window etc for it to actually stop something from entering.

Similarly don't expect malack to have any trouble crossing running water. (unless it's funny)

[hamishspence]

Even in a world with magic, that one rule that doesn't make any sense. There'd have to be a vampire repelling spell on every door and window etc for it to actually stop something from entering.


Isn't that how it works in novels, movies, etc?

[Sir_Leorik]

Owing to the fact that everyone was dead, it wasn't anyone's building anymore. And thus Open To The Public. :smallwink:

Ninja'ed by Porthos!

Several times on Angel, the eponymous Vampire Detective could not enter someone's home, since he had no invitation. Unfortunately the Vampires or other Demons would use that opportunity to kill the owner, at which time Angel would leap in and start fighting the killers.

[Sir_Leorik]

"Unless invited by someone with the authority to do so."

if it's technically within the Empire of Blood's borders, and if Tarquin has the authority to invite anyone into any Empire of Blood building, it works.

Alternatively, when everyone with any claim on a building is dead, that building becomes a "public space".

Do we know if the Windy Valley is within the borders of Tarquin's empire?

[sam79]

Ninja'ed by Porthos!


=Muskateer'd?

[Porthos]

Do we know if the Windy Valley is within the borders of Tarquin's empire?

Looking at the map it's possible (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html). I looked through the strips that discussed Windy Canyon (presumably in the Goaway Mountains) but didn't find anything.

[Luna_Mayflower]

Well, the OOTS were the first to come to the temple, so doesn't that mean they've hijacked it and it is their choice to invite him in, even if they didn't actively conquor the temple. If I was Durkon, I would have delivered a quick Gate or Implosion spell, or at least cast Death Ward, the normal spell, on myself before the mass ward. Silly Dwarf. Still, he'll be back and fighting fit in the next post/comic, I mean the dead character thing was doen with Roy, I dount Rick would do it again? Rick seems to know a lot about narative and homes.

[Shred-Bot]

So, Vampires, in general, cannot enter any building unless they are invited in by someone with the authority to do so. Seeing as all the Draketooths are dead, and so cannot invite him into the temple, how was he able to enter it at all? No one else had the authority to invite him in, although quite why you'd invite a Vampire in, I'm not sure.

So, Malack, stay out! Malack, stay out!!!:smallmad::smallconfused::smallyuk:

Maybe there will be a bonus strip in the book where Tarquin forges a deed (would Tarquin have ranks in the forgery skill? Of course he would!)to the pyramid (which Chancellor Kilkil notarizes), thus making him the legal owner and giving him the authority to invite in any and all vampires.

[hamishspence]

If I was Durkon, I would have delivered a quick Gate or Implosion spell, or at least cast Death Ward, the normal spell, on myself before the mass ward.

I don't think Durkon's likely to be 17th level though.

[TaiLiu]

...Gate or Implosion spell...

He can't cast those spells.

[Sir_Leorik]

Looking at the map it's possible (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html). I looked through the strips that discussed Windy Canyon (presumably in the Goaway Mountains) but didn't find anything.

Its a moot point, since the Draketooths are dead, but does Tarquin have that kind of authority to grant Malack an invitation to every home in the Empire of Blood? Officially he is only the chief general of the Empress; while he has de facto control, isn't de jure control needed for an invitation? For example, Count Strahd is the de jure Lord of Barovia. He can enter any home in the Domain without an invitation and he can extend an invitation to any other Vampires to enter any home in the Domain. (This includes Vampires that are not under his control, such as Jander Sunstar or Strahd's niece Lyssa von Zarovich.)

[Minitroll]

Do we know if the Windy Valley is within the borders of Tarquin's empire?

If it's not in Tarquin's empire, it's in one of his amigos empire's, and as Tarquin leads the party, that theoretically puts him in charge of that empire, and therefore the Windy Valley.

[Shred-Bot]

Its a moot point, since the Draketooths are dead, but does Tarquin have that kind of authority to grant Malack an invitation to every home in the Empire of Blood? Officially he is only the chief general of the Empress; while he has de facto control, isn't de jure control needed for an invitation? For example, Count Strahd is the de jure Lord of Barovia. He can enter any home in the Domain without an invitation and he can extend an invitation to any other Vampires to enter any home in the Domain. (This includes Vampires that are not under his control, such as Jander Sunstar or Strahd's niece Lyssa von Zarovich.)

Well, we don't necessarily know what kind of private property rights citizens have in the Empire of Blood. If everything is state-owned, Malack should have no issue going wherever he pleases. Even if private land ownership is permitted, they could have some harsher variant of Eminent Domain which would allow them to seize any private land if it is needed by the government. Plus Kilkil is there so the paperwork should be no trouble either.

[Sir_Leorik]

Well, we don't necessarily know what kind of private property rights citizens have in the Empire of Blood. If everything is state-owned, Malack should have no issue going wherever he pleases. Even if private land ownership is permitted, they could have some harsher variant of Eminent Domain which would allow them to seize any private land if it is needed by the government. Plus Kilkil is there so the paperwork should be no trouble either.

But wouldn't they still need to file the paperwork first?

[SaintRidley]

But wouldn't they still need to file the paperwork first?

This is the kind of Lawful Evil that claims your house and files the paperwork afterwards, not the other way around.

[Mike Havran]

Malack is a half-dragon and belongs to the same family tree as the Draketooths. He wasn't affected by familicide, because he had been already dead. And since he is the sole living existing member of the Draketooth family, the pyramid belongs to him.

[Sir_Leorik]

This are the kind of Lawful Evil that claims your house and files the paperwork afterwards, not the other way around.

Tarquin may be one of the most competent (and genre-savvy) villains this webcomic has ever seen; if anything he'd be aware that there are mystical conditions barring Malack from entering the pyramid and take steps ahead of time to counter them. If that did require filing papers, he'd make sure that Kilkil dotted every "I" and crossed every "T" and ask the notary to make sure his license had been renewed.

[Armaius]

Malack is a half-dragon and belongs to the same family tree as the Draketooths. He wasn't affected by familicide, because he had been already dead. And since he is the sole living existing member of the Draketooth family, the pyramid belongs to him.

Uh. There's no direct support for that in the comic.

[SaintRidley]

What I'm saying is that the paperwork is almost certainly a formality where Tarquin and Malack are involved.

Anyway, the obvious and most eminently reasonable answer to why Malack can get in is the pyramid is completely without owners now. Everybody who could possibly claim ownership is dead, and the Order of the Stick are certainly not residing within; they are inside but it is not their home. It is, without any owners and all occupants dead, not a home(or a residence of any kind) anymore.

[TaiLiu]

Uh. There's no direct support for that in the comic.

His comment was in jest.

[Shred-Bot]

But wouldn't they still need to file the paperwork first?

Hmmmmmm... maybe, although it would probably be Kilkil (or one of his subordinates) that does the filing so he could probably use his bureaucratic magic to make it work. I don't actually know how their system works though so that might not be possible.

Alternately, perhaps Z has Teleport Object?

[Mike Havran]

Uh. There's no direct support for that in the comic.

:smalltongue:


His comment was in jest.

[Ghosty]

Uh. There's no direct support for that in the comic.

Agreed, but see the first generation from the Dragon/Human pairing on the Draketooth family tree (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html). The leftmost kid sure looks a lot like a black version of Malack, doesn't she? Well, if Malack had a red ponytail. And breasts... Count the generations on the chart. Do they add up to more than 200+ years or so?

Wouldn't be the first false lead the Giant has dropped along the way though. For example, I really like the BelKar portmanteau. (Though I guess it's not too late for Belkar to be a vampire too.)

If he's a Draketooth, it's likely he has a coffin stashed somewhere in the building. He could have been a resident of the pyramid long before the Rift and Gate showed up.

Edit: We have no idea what race Malack is, nor what he was doing prior to the 200 years he's spent as a vampire. While I think the Giant mentioned the timespan to let us know that Resurrection was not going to happen (though if he's half-Draconic, would his lifespan permit being Rezzed after all that time?) I wonder if there was another reason why he dropped that clue on us? It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was a distant relative.

[SaintRidley]

Agreed, but see the first generation from the Dragon/Human pairing on the [URL="http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html"]

If he's a Draketooth, it's likely he has a coffin stashed somewhere in the building. He could have been a resident of the pyramid long before the Rift and Gate showed up.


Just noting that it's implied in the crayon strips (though those have a degree of subjectivity to them) that the pyramid came after the rift.

[Chantelune]

or at least cast Death Ward, the normal spell, on myself before the mass ward. Silly Dwarf.

Uh, why bother casting Death Ward on himself before Mass Death Ward ? Durkon had no idea that his MDW was not as reliable as he thought it to be, so this would have been a waste of a spell slot. And we don't even know if he has that spell in his list anyway. :smallconfused:

[Ghosty]

OTOH, after counting the generations, it's only the generation preceding Girard. I don't think it's been 200 years since Girard + one generation.

So, either Malack is lying about how long it's been, or he isn't a relative. Bummer. That would have been an interesting reveal, IMHO.

We still have to explain how Malack thought he'd be able to get into the pyramid in the first place. It's true, there's nobody left with a claim on the property and it's not really a residence anymore---so far as we know---but Malack shouldn't know that before he walks in. How was he expecting to get into the pyramid? Was Nale expecting the pyramid to be undefended? What do we know that Nale should know about Girard's Gate?

It'll probably be a bonus strip, I guess.

[Gift Jeraff]

OTOH, after counting the generations, it's only the generation preceding Girard. I don't think it's been 200 years since Girard + one generation.

So, either Malack is lying about how long it's been, or he isn't a relative. Bummer. That would have been an interesting reveal, IMHO.

We still have to explain how Malack thought he'd be able to get into the pyramid in the first place. It's true, there's nobody left with a claim on the property and it's not really a residence anymore---so far as we know---but Malack shouldn't know that before he walks in. How was he expecting to get into the pyramid? Was Nale expecting the pyramid to be undefended? What do we know that Nale should know about Girard's Gate?

It'll probably be a bonus strip, I guess.

Maybe Nale planned to tell the Draketooths that the Order was allied with the Sapphire Guard like Elan feared, so then they might ally with the Guild and invite them in.

[baf]

I'll quibble with the claim that "Vampires, in general, cannot enter any building unless they are invited in". Rather, vampires, in some versions of vampire lore and some fictional settings, cannot enter any building unless they are invited in. The rules vary a lot, and the "can't enter a home unless invited" rule used to be one of the more obscure and less-often-followed ones until it was used as one of the ground rules in Buffy.

That said, I think we can assume that relevant rules for OotS are the rules of 3.5e D&D. According to the SRD: "They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so. They may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all." That's a good deal more restrictive than the Buffy rules; in particular, it doesn't say anything about living residents, so the fact that Girard's descendants are all dead is irrelevant. I can convince myself that Tarquin has the necessary "authority" to let Malack into any building in his realm, but it's kind of a DM judgment call.

[Edited to add:] Note in particular that the rules specify "authority", not residence or ownership. Tarquin doesn't own the building and doesn't live in the building, but he could still plausibly claim authority over it.

[SaintRidley]

OTOH, after counting the generations, it's only the generation preceding Girard. I don't think it's been 200 years since Girard + one generation.

So, either Malack is lying about how long it's been, or he isn't a relative. Bummer. That would have been an interesting reveal, IMHO.


That doesn't really follow too well. Malack's age might preclude him being part of the Draketooth family line, but that doesn't mean that he's not a half-dragon descended from another one of ABD's relatives.

Not that I suggest he's a half-dragon. Just noting that being Girard's aunt or uncle is not the only way he could be a half dragon.

[Grelna the Blue]

As far as the speculation goes that Malack is not only a half-dragon but part of the Draketooth lineage, I doubt it. However, it's worth pointing out that if it were true, he wouldn't have to come AFTER Girard. He could theoretically be Girard's direct ancestor.

[rewinn]

Tarquin doesn't own the building and doesn't live in the building, but he could still plausibly claim authority over it.
... especially since there is no-one to contest his ownership. He could formally enter, say, "I claim this building by right of conquest, anyone dispute me?" and in the silence invite Malack.

[SaintRidley]

As far as the speculation goes that Malack is not only a half-dragon but part of the Draketooth lineage, I doubt it. However, it's worth pointing out that if it were true, he wouldn't have to come AFTER Girard. He could theoretically be Girard's direct ancestor.


Only if Malack had wings, legs, and no tail, since Girard's dad had those qualities and is the only half-dragon direct ancestor of Girard.


But yeah, incredibly unlikely.

[Tragak]

Uh. There's no direct support for that in the comic.

Support Is Unnecessary Under The Laws Of Awesome!

[Trixie]

I'll quibble with the claim that "Vampires, in general, cannot enter any building unless they are invited in". Rather, vampires, in some versions of vampire lore and some fictional settings, cannot enter any building unless they are invited in. The rules vary a lot, and the "can't enter a home unless invited" rule used to be one of the more obscure and less-often-followed ones until it was used as one of the ground rules in Buffy.

That said, I think we can assume that relevant rules for OotS are the rules of 3.5e D&D. According to the SRD: "They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so. They may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all." That's a good deal more restrictive than the Buffy rules; in particular, it doesn't say anything about living residents, so the fact that Girard's descendants are all dead is irrelevant. I can convince myself that Tarquin has the necessary "authority" to let Malack into any building in his realm, but it's kind of a DM judgment call.

[Edited to add:] Note in particular that the rules specify "authority", not residence or ownership. Tarquin doesn't own the building and doesn't live in the building, but he could still plausibly claim authority over it.

Why he does need Tarquin anyway? Aren't they both on the same level? :smallconfused:

Simplest explanation - EoB could simply pass the law Head Clerics of any religion on its territory have authority to enter any building they want, freely. Problem solved :P