Tiger Claw for Extra Dummies

[Palanan]

In my current campaign I'm using ToB for the first time, and questions keep occurring to me as I read through the disciplines. I have a player who's very interested in Tiger Claw, so I have a few basic questions on some of the maneuvers and etc.

Please bear with me here, and keep in mind I've never used this supplement before.


Flesh Ripper (p. 87)
The text states that on a successful attack, the target takes penalties to attacks and AC for 1 round. When exactly does this penalty round end? Directly before the warblade's next attack, directly after, or at some other time?

Leaping Dragon Stance (p. 88)
This seems intended to be used together with Claw at the Moon. In practice, does this combination end up pretty much auto-activating the extra damage? If so, this looks like a bonus 2d6 every other round, forever.

Rabid Wolf Strike (p. 88)
Does the "single melee attack" preclude this being used with TWF? That's what I would assume, but I'd like to know for sure.

Wolf Fang Strike (p. 90)
I'm honestly not quite sure what this does. If my player has TWF and a light off-hand weapon...what does this maneuver do? Something stirring and wonderful, I'm sure, but I'm just not seeing it.
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[ZeroSpace9000]

Your question re: Flesh Ripper seems a little curious. Really, it would end the same time any one round spell would end, specifically at the start of the initiators next turn.

Moving onto Leaping Dragon Stance, your thoughts are pretty much correct, but do be aware that the initiator still needs to make an attack roll, and they get +4 to confirm any critical hits they may score. Also, the 2d6 extra damage from Claw at the Moon is not increased on a critical hit.

Rabid Wolf Strike, again right on the money, as you make 'a single attack' through the maneuver.

Wolf Fang Strike is a slightly trickier beast, since to find the point of the maneuver, you need to look really close, and know how TWF works. Wolf Fang Strike lets you make 1 attack with each hand as a standard action; attempting this normally requires a full-round action. What this means is you can move in and double-tap with WFS, or double-tap then move out.

[Phelix-Mu]

Wolf Fang Strike (p. 90)
I'm honestly not quite sure what this does. If my player has TWF and a light off-hand weapon...what does this maneuver do? Something stirring and wonderful, I'm sure, but I'm just not seeing it.[/INDENT]
.

As a character of mine is looking at taking this maneuver, here is what I think it does.

As a standard action, you can attack once with each weapon. You take -2 to each attack. For some reason, you can't reach the enemy with the second attack if you drop it with the damage from the first attack (needless nerf, imho).

With the level and pre-req set up, this maneuver may be required if you want Sudden Leap (more useful, imho, but needs another Tiger Claw maneuver...).

EDIT: Righteously ninja'd.

[lsfreak]

Flesh Ripper (p. 87)
The text states that on a successful attack, the target takes penalties to attacks and AC for 1 round. When exactly does this penalty round end? Directly before the warblade's next attack, directly after, or at some other time?
I actually don't know RAW, despite playing off-and-on for nearly 10 years, but I've always ruled it ends at the beginning of the warblade's next round.

Leaping Dragon Stance (p. 88)
This seems intended to be used together with Claw at the Moon. In practice, does this combination end up pretty much auto-activating the extra damage? If so, this looks like a bonus 2d6 every other round, forever.
One single attack at +2d6 damage every other round isn't all that impressive, though. Compare to sneak attack, skirmish, and power attack, which work on all your attacks, every time you qualify (and it's not hard to qualify).

Rabid Wolf Strike (p. 88)
Does the "single melee attack" preclude this being used with TWF? That's what I would assume, but I'd like to know for sure.
That's right.

Wolf Fang Strike (p. 90)
I'm honestly not quite sure what this does. If my player has TWF and a light off-hand weapon...what does this maneuver do? Something stirring and wonderful, I'm sure, but I'm just not seeing it.
It lets you attack with two weapons as a standard action, instead of requiring a full-round action.

[Palanan]

Thanks for the answers, guys, I appreciate it.

Looks like the only outstanding question, at least for me, is to nail down the reference for when the Flesh Ripper effect actually ends. The consensus seems to be right before the initiator's next turn, which makes sense, but is this directly stated anywhere in ToB?

[Phelix-Mu]

Thanks for the answers, guys, I appreciate it.

Looks like the only outstanding question, at least for me, is to nail down the reference for when the Flesh Ripper effect actually ends. The consensus seems to be right before the initiator's next turn, which makes sense, but is this directly stated anywhere in ToB?

Compare to Stunning Fist. Similar effect, similar benefit, though the likeness isn't flawless. Stunning Fist's stun ends right before the stunners next turn. It is entirely reasonable to use a similar mechanic for Flesh Ripper.

I don't own ToB, and I can hardly stand to read relevant parts out of a .pdf, let alone read the whole book that way. I'm sure someone else here has a more encyclopedic knowledge of this supplement, though.

[Lapak]

Under 'Duration,' Tome of Battle p. 45: (emphasis mine)


One-Round Durations: Some durations are measured as 1 round. You gain the capability to perform whatever special effect or attack the maneuver permits on your turn. Immediately before your action in the round after you initiated the maneuver, its effect comes to an end.

Flesh Ripper is listed as having a duration of one round, so there you go!

EDIT: Technically its duration is 'one round or more,' as the effect lasts for [x] rounds on a critical hit, where [x] is the critical multiplier of the weapon that you delivered the strike with. But the default duration is certainly one round.

[Palanan]

Aha! Perfect, Lapak, thanks very much. Even I can plainly see that!

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
I don't own ToB, and I can hardly stand to read relevant parts out of a .pdf, let alone read the whole book that way.

I'm with you completely on this. I have the hardcopy checked out through my library on ILL.

What's even more frustrating, at least for me, is the arrangement of maneuvers and stances within disciplines, rather than presented in a grand alphabetical list like the Spell Compendium. Restarting the alphabetical sequence for each discipline makes a sort of thematic sense--but it's a real bear when you're trying to look something up, especially when they don't clearly mark each page with the relevant discipline.

Just my two kopeks there. Thanks again, guys.

[Darrin]

Wolf Fang Strike is a slightly trickier beast, since to find the point of the maneuver, you need to look really close, and know how TWF works. Wolf Fang Strike lets you make 1 attack with each hand as a standard action; attempting this normally requires a full-round action. What this means is you can move in and double-tap with WFS, or double-tap then move out.

There are a couple other quirks to Wolf Fang Strike. The -2 penalty *replaces* the normal TWF penalties, so you can attack with two non-light weapons or use a non-light offhand weapon and still only take a -2 penalty. There's also the option to use unarmed strike as your offhand, but it's not clear to me how this would work if you didn't have Improved Unarmed Strike. I think the intent was to allow you to use an offhand unarmed strike without IUS or provoking an AoO, but this isn't clear from the text.