[PF] In need of help with Sorcerer (or Oracle)

[5w337x7007h]

I'm building a gnome sorcerer, wild-blooded Sylvan Fey. I want to build him for battlefield control with illusion, enchantment, and conjuration. Trying to maintain distance while supporting my allies. Lvl 7 is the group level, pushing into 8th. Shackled City is amazing and HARD.

My stats are well rounded
Str 8 / Wis 13
Dex 14 / Int 14
Con 14 / Cha 19

I don't plan to actually blast into the fight unless I need to so most evocation spells will be through wand, staff, or wondrous item.

Can anyone give me a recommended spell list idea, and feats? I'm going for boosting my spell DCs so it's near impossible to save.

Also, if you use Dominate Person on an enemy, followed by a Silent Image bridge, could you effectively make the bad guy walk off a cliff, the bad guy not knowing that it's actually an illusion? Because it would perceive that the bridge is safe and not life-threatening, therefore circumventing the whole, "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out.", thing.

[Juntao112]

First off, we have a Sorcerer's Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=487.0).

Spells like Silent Image, Obscuring Mist, Color Spray, Glitterdust, Invisibility, and Blink will probably come in handy.

[Raven777]

The Pathfinder Quick Guide to Sorcerer Spell Selection (https://docs.google.com/document/d/17S3pYy0wk8uUTJ3RFaIDk5vz29WYmOXuhWiOKHO2E_M/edit#heading=h.l4dhw7c1mzqd) is your friend!

Don't forget : what sorcerers give up in spells known, they should make up in versatility for the spells they choose. Summon Monster IV and up are good candidates for that because of the SLAs and spells of the critters you will summon. Need a translator? Your Hound Archon has Truespeech. Need rubble moved of the way? Whip up a cadre of Earth Mephits. Something needs be extra crispy, right now? Lightning Mephits, if allowed, can zap out a Lightning Bolt at caster level 6th.

Stinking Cloud (nauseates, blocks line of sight), Glitterdust (blinds, reveals invisibility), Web (grapples), Haste (extra attack, bunch of buffs), Slow (staggers, bunch of debuffs), Black Tentacles (grapples, does damage) and Confusion (disables enemies or make them attack each other) are are also obvious staples because they are so effective at making your allies better or your enemies suck.

You also want to consider a few personal defenses, ideally ones with a long duration that can be up before combat starts or that can get you out of harm's reach altogether. Mirror Image, Invisibility, Dimension Door and Overland Flight should be your friends.

If you want to Spell Focus into Illusion, Shadow Conjuration (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjR1dOeEVkRUU4WlU/edit?pli=1) and Shadow Evocation (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjTVF4NEY4SXpSTUU/edit?pli=1) can also replace most Conjuration and Evocation spells you might ever need, and the Will saves are not as much a problem as people tend to believe if you are a dedicated Illusionist bossting his school's DCs. These are especially potent with wall and fog type spells, because you are usually allowed to auto disbelieve your own stuff, so you whip up more magic from behind cover while enemies can't see you.

[ShriekingDrake]

Also, take a look at the Short Sorcerer's Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871358/Short_Sorcerer_Handbook) and the Mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer).

[Raven777]

He's playing PF, guys. Mailman won't help beyond the philosophy on the art of blasting.

[avr]

The defining characteristic of a Sylvan bloodline sorcerer is the animal companion. Therefore choose some personal spells you'd want to cast on them via Share Spells, or others which you'd want to cast directly on the companion.

Elemental touch/aura are pretty good for this. Buffs too; defences like mirror image to keep it alive after it charges in to a fight.

If you can spare a 3rd level spell, Seek Thoughts is great for solving social problems.

[Pickford]

Also, if you use Dominate Person on an enemy, followed by a Silent Image bridge, could you effectively make the bad guy walk off a cliff, the bad guy not knowing that it's actually an illusion? Because it would perceive that the bridge is safe and not life-threatening, therefore circumventing the whole, "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out.", thing.

Only if he doesn't 'see' you:

A) Cast (and correctly identify it)
B) See the bridge form/know there should be no bridge there. (As if he has no reason to disbelieve the illusion he cannot save until interacting with it...at which point it should be too late).

Feats: Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus obviously for the DCs...check out complete Arcane for Sudden Silent (1/day silent without increasing level of the spell) and Wand Strike (since you plan on using attack wands).

Since you're apparently half-Fey but also get regular gnome stats? (how's that work?) check Complete Mage for the Fey Heritage feats, one of which increases the save DC on enchantments. Dazzling illusion might be good if you're heavy into those as well.

[dwlc2000]

Hello
I decided to cook up a spell list for you
1st charm person
1st silent image
1st beign transportation.
1st enlarge person
1st hypnotism
2nd web
2nd glitterdust
2nd hypnotic patterns
3rd synystodwemer
3rd major image

As for feats, take spell focus and greater spell focus. Take evards black tentacles at 8th. Ultimate crowd contol.

[5w337x7007h]

I'm playing Pathfinder which allows for bloodlines for the Sorcerer. I'm basically making it hard for enemies to save vs compulsion spells, using those along with battlefield control spells to give my allies the advantage.

[avr]

I think you may be making a mistake. Fey bloodline gives a bonus to compulsion save DCs. Wildblooded Sylvan replaces this with the animal companion. ("This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.")

If some houserule is giving you both, Deep Slumber is a compulsion Save-or-Lose, and next level Charm Monster lets you collect allies or Confusion breaks up groups of monsters.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do this (http://alt.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4), never stress out over spell selection again.

[nedz]

For a similar character in 3.5 I went for

Disguise Self, Charm Person, Exp Retreat, Magic Missile, Colour Spray
Invisibility, Shadow Spray, Eagles Splendour
Major Image, Rainbow Blast
Shadow Conjuration

If you have a char boost item, then you wouldn't need Eagles Splendour. I was in a very low wealth game however.

I swapped Silent Image for MM, since I had Major Image: dumping Colour Spray was the other option.

Rainbow Blast was fun but there are other options. I chose this because it still works even if the target has some energy resistance, also thematic.

Sculpt spell is the feat to have.

I can target any save, though SR would still be a pain. SR is not all that common at this level, and in fact I have yet to encounter any.

For the next level I added
See Invisible, Fly, Illusory Wall

I've not had much mileage out of the last one though.

[5w337x7007h]

Dear god.. Ancestral Relic.. That sounds AMAZING!! Good thing my DM allows 3.5 feats. He's pretty cool about things as long as you don't break them with ridiculous powers like I did with my Rogue. 6d6 damage per round at lvl 3 was fun though. He put an end to it sadly.
Double-checked, and you're right avr. I'll fix that right away.

[DarkEternal]

I think a sorcerer specialising in summoning is excellent. You have a fairly low spell pool, but you can cast a lot of spells, and summoning is an excellent way to go. You get damage, utility, and a whole plethora of spells.

Also, if you didn't, you might consider taking one level in Sand Shaper PrC. It will cost you a feat, but you'll get a lot of spells of all levels, 1-9.

[5w337x7007h]

I realized Ancestral Relic might not work out as well with Pathfinder rules, as the staves in Pathfinder all work with charges.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/ringsRodsStaves/staves.html

[Shining Wrath]

Also, if you use Dominate Person on an enemy, followed by a Silent Image bridge, could you effectively make the bad guy walk off a cliff, the bad guy not knowing that it's actually an illusion? Because it would perceive that the bridge is safe and not life-threatening, therefore circumventing the whole, "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out.", thing.

I think he'd still get a Will SR to realize "hey, that's not right!" as soon as he interacted with the bridge. Up to DM when that occurs - when his front foot goes through the bridge, or when he's about to step onto it.

Other than that, yes, very nice way to kill someone with lots of AC and HP but poor will. And by "very nice" I mean "sadistic". :smallsmile:

[5w337x7007h]

So I've changed the thread title because I want to experiment and i like the idea of a spontaneous divine caster. I saw the ancient lorekeeper archetype but I want to keep the gnome race.
If you were my GM, would you allow me to take an, normally elf-only, archetype with a gnome whos home is a kingdom/city of gnomes and elves? Gnomes of the city mirroring Tolkien's hobbits in the habit of loving to keep records of anything and everything they can think of. My character's family being a prestigious family that owns the kingdom/city's largest extra-dimensional library that holds both gnome and elven knowledge.

[nedz]

If you were my GM, would you allow me to take an, normally elf-only, archetype with a gnome who's home is a kingdom/city of gnomes and elves? Gnomes of the city mirroring Tolkien's hobbits in the habit of loving to keep records of anything and everything they can think of. My character's family being a prestigious family that owns the kingdom/city's largest extra-dimensional library that holds both gnome and elven knowledge.

Yes, and I could probably build this in 3.5.

I'm not so sure about PF though.

[Karoht]

Alter-Self and Paragon Surge.

Alter-Self into a Half-Elf.
Now you qualify for Paragon Surge.
Paragon Surge gives you access to any feat you qualify for. The feat lasts for 15 minutes. You also get a small Dex and Int buff.
For example, you could take Extended Arcana. It grants an extra spell known at your highest level, or any two spells known below that level.
IE-If you can cast 3rd level spells you could take a 3rd level spell, or two spells from either 2nd or 1st level.

Take Eldritch Heritage with the Arcane Bloodline at some point in your build. Why?
Eldritch Heritage will grant you an Arcane Bond (familiar or item), which on it's own is rather nice. But wait, there's more.
Paragon Surge yourself the Improved Eldritch Heritage feat, and select the 'New Arcana' Bloodline ability. This particular trick isn't all that great at level 9, at level 13 you can pick two spells at your highest spell level, and 17 you can pick 3. Want 3 extra 9th level spells known?

Best part, you can pick up both as Wands if you want. Paragon Surge is worth having as a spell known so you can quicken it at later levels.
And Alter Self is worth it on it's own for a multitude of reasons, least of which is that it is incredibly handy for disguising one's identity.

[5w337x7007h]

I don't think paragon surge would work like that. I'd still be a gnome, though polymorphed to look like a half-elf.

Also, my friend, not the GM, keeps telling me that elves are xenophobic about their ancestry and knowledge, so it's unlikely that gnomes and elves would build a city together. It's sad really. The two races together could really bring about the industrial era within the pathfinder world.

[avr]

I'd allow it as your GM. The limitation to elves is a fluff limitation rather than something in place for game balance IMO, and your background complies with the fluff.

Even if you can't take it, there are plenty of mysteries which get sorcerous bonus spells if that's what you're after. Heavens springs to mind.

[avr]

Ah, if the city doesn't exist in your GMs world then, maybe not. If the city is your creation for your characters background then I'd consider carefully how it fit in to the rest of the world and quite possibly say no.