OOTS #878 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[WoLong]

:smallfurious: Damn.

[Pokonic]

....

Well then,

[What'sThatThing]

Oh snap. Count Durkula is here/

[Killjoy, PhD]

Now THATS just cheating, Malack.

[Codyage]

Wow Durkon is scary :smalleek:!

[The_Tentacle]

Oh. My. Gods.

We saw it coming, yet it is still such a surprise/horror.

[jsuarezcasana]

DAMN, last panel is scary

[never_shades]

I must admit that I was kinda looking forward to Count Belkar.

Maybe he'll do him too? Although he is lawful, so he'll probably honor Durkon's last request.

[Archmage1]

Well, Belkar is sitting there, all tasty like....

[Seligas]

Hmm, well this is an interesting development. I wonder how this is going to work.

Man I wish someone had shown up on time to save him.

[The Pilgrim]

Welcome home, Count Thundershield. :smalleek:

May your existence be short, but eventful.

[Porthos]

HOLY CRAP, that's a Freaky Durkula!! :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

---

Also: Thought Durkon might be getting a Hastened trip to Vampville..

I wished I'd been wrong, but there you are.

[Esclados]

Good old blood of the living.

[Johel]

"I crave the flesh of the livings !!!"
"Oh !! Baby wants his numnum !!"

:smalltongue:

[JackRackham]

Preeeeeetttttyyy sure Durkon's gonna be evil, based on the artwork.

[One Skunk Todd]

Barnabas Durkon it is.

[Amarsir]

Oh snap. Count Durkula is here/
Is that the adopted name now? I like it!

[WoLong]

Durkon's looking a bit more evil than I hoped.

[Olorin Maia]

Man oh man. That's just rough.

[CoffeeIncluded]

And...Well, Belkar is still here, and...Oh boy. Black armor and everything. This cannot be good.

[Mordae]

And, boom goes the dynamite.

Now we see if he is a good vampire, or a bad vampire. Black armor is, of course, not a good sign given the history of technicolor garments in this comic...

[TheDarkblade]

wow...
Already a vampire, Malack pulled a fast one with that staff.
edit: I thought for sure that the order would have at least some chance at getting Durkon's body back before he rose as a vampire.

[ThePhantom]

How powerful is Malack's staff? That's some power in there, hmm. I wonder what would happen if it were to break. Maybe some kind of backlash?

Also, Belkar is in trouble of being a meal again.

[DaOldeWolf]

So close to seeing if there is any Durkon left in that undead.... and Belkar is once again in danger.

[Aadst1]

Well, carp. So much for Rest in Peace. Now to see what Belkar does...

[oppyu]

Damn it, Malack! You couldn't just leave the dead alone?

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!
Incoming Griefstorm (for not using another word)...

I must say I find this development HIGHLY interesting...
I hope everyone had enough time for solving their grief, because this is about to get messy.

[0datdude0]

Who wants to bet Belkar is going to kill Malack because he screws with his cat

[Armaius]

Well, this sucks for the Order. :smallsigh::smallfrown:

[TaiLiu]

The "Rraarghh" seals the deal, I think. Well, that and the whole evil armour thing.

[YourNewOverlord]

And suddenly the phrase "Brother Thundershield" takes on a much more sinister meaning...

:smalleek:

[enh]

Now I feel even more sorry for Roy. It's hard to lose a friend and advisor. It's even harder to have to kill them.

[stsasser]

Mr. Scruffy...?:smalleek:

[Grey Watcher]

Barnabas Durkon it is.

I'm gonna have to remember that one. Heh.

Also, I was gonna post this in the previous thread, but I'll put it here instead.

So, I had a chilling thought while washing dishes.

The SRD entry on vampires confirms as true the legend that vampires cannot enter a building without being invited by someone with the authority to do so. Assuming The Giant decides to honor that rule in this setting, will the reply to Durkon's letter home (as seen in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html)) wind up having dire consequences, potentially allowing a corrupt vampire Durkon into the Dwarven stronghold when he might otherwise have been kept out by... whatever it is that stops vampires from coming in uninvited?

I hope not, because based on the current comic, Barnabas Durkon is SCARY!

[Knick]

Ahhhhh! No!

This is turning into Dwarf Fortress!

[Mutant Sheep]

Aaaand CLOTHING CHANGE.:smalltongue:

.... DURKON IS A VAMPIRE WHAAA.:smallfrown: (If Malack was slightly less caught up in himself, I think the "Seek the blood of the living" thing might tip him off on the root of Durkon's objections, if he somehow had failed to grasp it before.)

[Chessgeek]

That's one handy staff...
My sadness increases.

[RickDaily12]

...So. Plan Y, then? Or shall we skip right to Z?

I'm out of ideas. I'm dry as to how the Order gets out of this mess, sadly. :smallfrown:

[Smolder]

Whoever called 'Hasten Undeath' in the last thread, congrats. Step up and collect your prize.

[The Zealot]

:smalleek: Welp, so long Belkar.

[ti'esar]

I'm gonna have to remember that one. Heh.

Also, I was gonna post this in the previous thread, but I'll put it here instead.

So, I had a chilling thought while washing dishes.

The SRD entry on vampires confirms as true the legend that vampires cannot enter a building without being invited by someone with the authority to do so. Assuming The Giant decides to honor that rule in this setting, will the reply to Durkon's letter home (as seen in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html)) wind up having dire consequences, potentially allowing a corrupt vampire Durkon into the Dwarven stronghold when he might otherwise have been kept out by... whatever it is that stops vampires from coming in uninvited?

I hope not, because based on the current comic, Barnabas Durkon is SCARY!

Oh boy. That is disturbingly plausible.

[Rorrik]

I wonder what Durkon will think of Malack and his former self now he is a vampire. Malack seems only to have disdain for his former self after 200 years. What will Durkon remember of it?

[Starscream]

Dwarf vampire! Do you think his accent will get even worse with him replacing Ws with Vs? Do you think he'll only drink the blood of alcoholics? Will he bite them on the kneecaps?

[stevem]

Count Durkula Thundershield. I think its pretty catchy.

On the other hand, I'm kind of bummed that Durkon is now an evil bloodsucking fiend.

And I'm worried for Belkar. He's either lunch or a vampire himself, or both, before too long.

[Shale]

Well, now we know why Malack is the last of his tribe. The guy gets less sympathetic with each new glimpse into his backstory.

Also, it goes without saying, but poor, poor Durkon.

[Agnostik]

The moments when characters have to specifically explain why something is possible even though D&D says otherwise make me slightly regret that the comic is based on D&D.

This is not a shot at Rich OR the resident D&D crowd. I just find that phrases such as "I'm not supposed to be able to do this, but I can because [something]" irritate me just a bit. If this were fiction not based on a game system, there would be no need for this.

[Jarian]

WELP.

Posthumously indeed.

[Procyonpi]

Whoever said Malack's staff in the last comic was foreshadowing was psychic.

[Feddlefew]

I bet the "raaaarg" was Durkon being angry about waking up.

[Porthos]

Whoever called 'Hasten Undeath' in the last thread, congrats. Step up and collect your prize.

*takes prize*
*stores on mantle*

Wish I'd been wrong, mind.

---

Also, is that a black holy symbol I spy on Durkula? Why, yes it is.

...

Maybe this is just a sort of adrenaline fulled rush of negative energy and Durkon will calm down once he gets his bearings?

*looks at last panel again*

Yeah. Maybe not.

[Alaris]

The question is... did Malack 'lose himself' because he became a Vampire, or did he lose himself from spending 200 YEARS as a Vampire.

That question will hopefully be answered in 879... I'm hoping Durkon retains some of himself... >.<

Poor Durkon...

[ThePhantasm]

Vampire Durkon, oh no. :smalleek:

[Ted The Bug]

Dwarf vampire! Do you think his accent will get even worse with him replacing Ws with Vs? Do you think he'll only drink the blood of alcoholics? Will he bite them on the kneecaps?

I never even thought about the accent possibilities for a dwarfpire.

Of course, that was largely because I never expected Durkon to become one. This story arc...I can't take it!!

[Coidzor]

Dwarf vampire! Do you think his accent will get even worse with him replacing Ws with Vs? Do you think he'll only drink the blood of alcoholics? Will he bite them on the kneecaps?

Hah! Now there's an angle I hadn't considered.

[Kingault]

...Oh dear.

[Astral Avenger]

dont think anyone's said it yet...
Dun dun DUN!
...
:smallcool:

5 cookies that durkon accidentally tries to turn undead and gets himself before strip 1000. :smallbiggrin:

[Grif]

Goddamnit Durkon.

Summarises my feelings perfectly.

[Flame of Anor]

Oh, dammit. If it weren't for the fact that it would ruin the plot, I'd be really worried about a TPK right now. Come on, V, show up and kick Malack's scaly arse before we lose more PCs!

[The Giant]

The moments when characters have to specifically explain why something is possible even though D&D says otherwise make me slightly regret that the comic is based on D&D.

This is not a shot at Rich OR the resident D&D crowd. I just find that phrases such as "I'm not supposed to be able to do this, but I can because [something]" irritate me just a bit. If this were fiction not based on a game system, there would be no need for this.

You and me both.

[elliott20]

Oh f***...

[MaximKat]

Uh-oh, poor Belkar.

Also worth noting, tomorrow is the last of the 9 daily comics. I wonder what it means for the plot.

[Mantine]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZZjdUmqksw/UDfvc9gWOiI/AAAAAAAAAtQ/5Sw1jenM2go/s1600/600px-996DTD_Harvey_Keitel_008.jpg

This is NOT funny.

[ti'esar]

Well, now we know why Malack is the last of his tribe. The guy gets less sympathetic with each new glimpse into his backstory.

Also, it goes without saying, but poor, poor Durkon.

I think someone had already guessed it, but yeah... eesh.

[Plastic_Croc]

Well, this sucks for the Order. :smallsigh::smallfrown:

Not yet, but when Malack and Durkula get their fangs in them, then it will suck. A lot. :smallbiggrin:

[Darthteej]

OOOOOH SNAP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g)

[Traab]

Do clerics REALLY have no protection from such a horrible fate? I mean good lord, if I were to be a blessed follower of some god of light, I think I would insist on some sort of murder/suicide effect placed upon me should someone attempt to turn me undead. Something like, my entire body becomes converted into holy nitroglycerin. :smallbiggrin: Like holy water, only it explodes with the fury of a thousand explosive runes.

[Deviljho]

Well, Belkar is sitting there, all tasty like....

If you we're a vampire, would you want to chew on Belkar, considering the things he's been in?

[JackRackham]

Here's hoping Malack's desire for a 'brother' rather than a child means he will allow Durkon free will. Although, judging from the artwork, it doesn't look like that would be the panacea I was hoping for....

[MaximKat]

Another think I wonder about, does Malack's attitude in this strip imply that he is going to release Durkon from his control?

[Beowulf DW]

:smalleek:

And the forces of good let out a collective "Oh, Bloody Hell."

[Stabbey]

Well, that's not going to help the Order any. No way they'll be able to hold the gate, not with Xykon and Tarquin both there. Even if V comes back and Belkar gets undominated... not like it would be a surprise, we can't have them hanging around this dungeon forever.

I like the nice touch of his armor colour changing.

[Porthos]

You and me both.

Ture. But you got to admit, that was a pretty cool scene with the staff. :smalleek: :smallbiggrin:

[Tychris1]

YES! OOTV (Order of the Vampire) is only a few comic strips away! Wonderul days!

[terryhe]

Not that my opinion should count for anything, but I'm really hating this story line. Enough so that after reading the comics and forum for five or six years I finally had to post. I look forward to this passing.

Amazingly well done comic, of course. Just something that seemed to start with this temple and peak (at least for the moment) with these last two comics.

[Kish]

If you we're a vampire, would you want to chew on Belkar, considering the things he's been in?
Hey, he's gourmet.

[Deviljho]

Now does this mean that Durkon will worship Nergal, due to him being a vamp?

[Ezekiel]

Well, this strip answers a lot of questions.


And so his reign of terror begins.... :smallfrown:

[Doxkid]

OOh, the giant is doing pretty well here!

Or...maybe he was drawing that whole time he was injured and is now releasing everything at once...sneaky sneaky.

[Lord Torath]

Wow. Fourteen Minutes later, and we're already on page 3.

So much for all the well intentioned "RIP"s everyone offered...

[hobbitkniver]

Is he Malacks servant now or does he have free will?

[Alaris]

Now does this mean that Durkon will worship Nergal, due to him being a vamp?

Technically it's not automatic, if it follows D&D rules. Though since his alignment [likely] switched, he will likely no longer see Thor as a good Patron Deity for him. He might look more too Nergal, or Hel.

Presuming he's all evil-like, and there isn't any Durkon in there anymore...


Is he Malacks servant now or does he have free will?

Rules as Written (D&D 3.5), he is a servant to Malak, and must Obey him until Malak is destroyed, or Malak frees him.

[Julian84]

Durkon! Nooooooooooooooooo!

[ti'esar]

Is he Malacks servant now or does he have free will?

That's the 24,000 gp question of the moment.

Based on Malack's comments, and the fact that it would be more interesting, I'd lean towards the latter.

[Skull the Troll]

If you we're a vampire, would you want to chew on Belkar, considering the things he's been in?

Well they say things taste of what they eat, and Belkar is a gourmand....

[Zweisteine]

Why are the bite marks on Durkon purple? Is it the blood loss?

Also, I'll assume Malack had to burn staff charges to change the color of Durkon's armor. I wonder why he did that... :smalltongue:

[thatSeniorGuy]

Mr Giant, I tip my hat to you sir. That last panel is truly horrifying.

[Rorrik]

Also, is that a black holy symbol I spy on Durkula? Why, yes it is.


Who will Count Durkon worship? That's what I want to know. Hel or Nergal?

Edit: This thread is growing to fast, more than a minute or so typing and someone else asks the same question.

[SavageWombat]

So I translate Malack's little speech to imply that, now that he has Durkon, he doesn't consider Belkar worthy of "brotherhood" any more.

[Haluesen]

...oh. :smalleek: :smalleek: Well...oh.

I admit I still kinda like Malack, from a "he kicks tail" perspective. But this...well poo. Now I kinda have to hate him.

Great work Giant on this storyline, definitely on the edge of my seat. :smallbiggrin:

In Memory~
Durkon Thundershield the Good.

[137beth]

Whoever said Malack's staff in the last comic was foreshadowing was psychic.

Not just a psychic. A FUTURE psychic! Obviously, whoever said that was Roy.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I shivered when I saw Count Durkonula! No Joke!

Love, Love, LOVE this arc! Everyone said Durkon needed character development, well, there you go!

[Porthos]

Such a shame that Tsukiko isn't around to see this (what she would consider) joyous event.

[Deviljho]

Hey, he's gourmet.

1: He's barfed several strips

2: He's gotten spewed with acid

3: He's tumbled in a lot of sand.

That is not gourmet.

[MelTorefas]

This strips are like little nightmares. You know what is coming, yet you hope against hope that it won't actually happen.

So yeah. Well done, Giant.

[Almaseti]

He looked so peaceful before he was raised. Poor guy.

[Mordae]

Why are the bite marks on Durkon purple? Is it the blood loss?

That's roughly the color of a bit of dried blood under flesh. I've had enough blood draws to recognize subcutaneous bruising :smalltongue:

[Drakeburn]

I guess this seems appropriate for a Dwarf Fortress joke, but I won't be the one to say it.

[Forikroder]

howd his arms fall like that in panel 4...? looks like there holding his holy symbol

[Fitzclowningham]

Whoa. Thought this would happen, but still got chills.

Regarding explanations, M could have just said the bit about 3 days in the grave*, pointed the staff at Durkula, and said "let's hasten the process." The point would have gotten across.

*"refreshing as it is" - great throwaway line.

[Forikroder]

Whoa. Thought this would happen, but still got chills.

Regarding explanations, M could have just said the bit about 3 days in the grave*, pointed the staff at Durkula, and said "let's hasten the process." The point would have gotten across.

*"refreshing as it is" - great throwaway line.

ya but Malack seems to have a love of saying ten words when 3 will do

[MelTorefas]

The moments when characters have to specifically explain why something is possible even though D&D says otherwise make me slightly regret that the comic is based on D&D.

This is not a shot at Rich OR the resident D&D crowd. I just find that phrases such as "I'm not supposed to be able to do this, but I can because [something]" irritate me just a bit. If this were fiction not based on a game system, there would be no need for this.


You and me both.

I for one actually really like those little touches. I can sure see how it would be frustrating as a STORYTELLER, there, but I just wanted to weight in on the "pro" side for what it is worth.

[WoLong]

howd his arms fall like that in panel 4...? looks like there holding his holy symbol

It looked like Malack put him in a dignified pose.

[Dire Lemming]

Malack being who he is, the foresight is by no means surprising; shocking, though, are the implications.

[Stabbey]

Also, I'll assume Malack had to eats staff charges to change the color of Durkon's armor. I wonder why he did that... :smalltongue:

Nah, Owl's Wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html) changed the colour of Belkar's clothing. It's just automatic, I think.

[Gift Jeraff]

First the title made me think Belkar was going to be Count Durkula's little brother. Then Malack talking about brothers made me think he was talking about the other spawn of whoever made him a vampire. Then...:smallyuk:

Anyway, as saddened as I am by this, it's nice to see Durkon finally get some new digs. When he went armour shopping with Haley and Elan in Sandsedge I was expecting him to get new boots or something.

[Fenin]

What is the black line behind durkon's head supposed to be? (last panel)

EDIT: Nevermind, got it, it is the split between wall and floor

[Segrain]

Why are the bite marks on Durkon purple? Is it the blood loss?

Because he's vampire now - Malack at first panel of 874 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) has his damage marks in the same colour.

[WoLong]

What is the black line behind durkon's head supposed to be? (last panel)

Where the wall meets the floor?

[Forikroder]

It looked like Malack put him in a dignified pose.

i dont know why though he plans to ressurect him in a few seconds why waste time putting his arms in a different position?

[Deviljho]

Now I wonder if Malack will take Durkon and bring him over to the LG...

[Pokonic]

Who will Count Durkon worship? That's what I want to know. Hel or Nergal?

Edit: This thread is growing to fast, more than a minute or so typing and someone else asks the same question.

Somewhere, out there, there is a little dwarf maid who worships Loki with a broken heart.

[joca4christ]

Gotta say, not terribly excited about this development.

Well, that's not completely true. Kind of like watching a train wreck...gotta see how it ends.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, great storytelling. It's harrowing. I don't want this to become the status quo, but a good storyteller has his/her audience rooting for resolution.

You've done your job well, Mr. Burlew. Have checked back frequently throughout the day to see what the next development will be, and will likely continue to do so.

[djcowell]

This plot is riveting and terrifying and wondrous and sad and amazing! Thanks Giant!!

[WoLong]

i dont know why though he plans to ressurect him in a few seconds why waste time putting his arms in a different position?

It's just considered disrespectful to drop someone on the ground, whether they're alive or not.

[darkelf]

and the dwarves of durkon's homeland could've avoided all this by not listening to prophecy.

DON'T LISTEN TO PROPHECY, KIDS.

[Greylond]

Final Panel is full of Awesome Sauce...

[Zweisteine]

I predict that the next thing to happen will be: Very Bad

Or, alternatively, a switch to somewhere else in the OotS world. Maybe Xykon and Redcloak.

[Chaotic Queen]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Goddamn it, Malack.

[rgrekejin]

...maybe now V will show up, and save Belkar from a bloody, bloody death at the hands of his former teammate?

[Mutant Sheep]

i dont know why though he plans to ressurect him in a few seconds why waste time putting his arms in a different position?

Tradition is important. And it could be assumed that the panel of silence was Malack thinking if he should speed the process, or leave his body in an almost peaceful (aside from the bite marks, he's smiling) pose and let the usual vampire coffin-smashing take course. Also, because despite evidence t the contrary, Malack still sees Durkon as a friend and wants him to have a few seconds of dignified death before... That.:smalleek:

[Shatteredtower]

Are you your brother's keeper, Malack? I suspect you may have bitten more than you can chew.

[Dire Lemming]

i dont know why though he plans to ressurect him in a few seconds why waste time putting his arms in a different position?
It's probably a sign of respect if not friendship.

At the least, some level of decency.

[Deviljho]

I must say that I would rate this on par with LoTR, because the plot is so riveting, the action intense, and the humor hilarious, excellent job Giant

[WoLong]

and the dwarves of durkon's homeland could've avoided all this by not listening to prophecy.

DON'T LISTEN TO PROPHECY, KIDS.

Yeah, like a time paradox. The prophecy causes the prophecy to happen.

[Fitzclowningham]

I'm thinking (hoping?) that "RRAARGHH" is how new vampires greet the world. After that, D clears his throat and says something that indicates he still has his faculties.

[headhoncho]

Who wants to bet Belkar is going to kill Malack because he screws with his cat

I think it's going to be way, way worse.

Durkon must be starving. Hey, there's Belkar, how convenient! Munch munch munch, down goes Belkar, there goes another charge from the staff, and there's another vampire.

Another hungry vampire. What else is there to eat? Oh yeah, here's a nice cat, all ready to go.

And so Belkar eats his own cat. And probably no vamping for Mr. Scruffy.

It would certainly illustrate the horror of the undead...

[Geordnet]

Ahhhhh! No!

This is turning into Dwarf Fortress!
You're... You're right. :smalleek:

Mr. Scruffy has already managed to brainwash Belkar, even!


At least we'll be able to deal with ..."Durkula" easily, if we can find a river full of carp...

[ReaderAt2046]

Rest in peace, Durkon Thundershield.

Long live Count Durkula Bloodshield! (Well, not really, but that's how the pattern goes.)

1. It occurs to me that this will be the ultimate test of OOTS's core philosophy. For here we have a case of an undeniably good character being converted to an evil race. Herein lies the crux. Will the Giant's heroic efforts at cleansing the stain of "Always Evil" succeed, and Durkon retain his goodness? Or will the iron laws of D&D drag Durkon down into the miry abyss of wickedness? Tune in tomorrow for (hopefully) an answer to this most important of questions.

2. Sort of building off of what I said in the first post, there are two different ways you can express the vampiric conversion. Either A: Durkon's soul remains in his body and is now running a vampiric body, or B: Durkon's soul has gone to Thor and a brand-new soul (with all of Durkon's memories) is created form negative energy to animate the new body. Could be interesting to know which it is.

3. THIS IS GOING TO BE SO DAMNED AWESOME!!!

4. (and I do mean "damned awesome", as in "evil and damed, but awesomely evil and damned")

[Deviljho]

He'll would freeze over before Belkar hurt Scruffy.

[Feste]

NOOOOOO DANGIT DURKON

I suspected that this would happen, but not in a "yeah, I'm gonna predict this sucka" kind of way, more in a "please don't defile Durkon please please please" kind of way.

:smalleek:

[archaeo]

You and me both.

You know, while D&D might present occasional hiccups in the storytelling here (you have to spend a few speech bubbles explaining how Malack is able to hasten the undead-ifying action), it really has been a boon to the overall strip. For every minor inconvenience, there's a great nerd gag; for every necessary "oh-and-by-the-way" house rule, there's a deeply interesting way of commenting on human nature by way of examining an arbitrary set of rules.

Now, that said: I've never played D&D (read lots of source books, never have had any friends who are the least bit interested), so I'm not sure how spell slots work. I assume Malack has burned all his best spells, but will Durkon get replenished slots due to the transformation here? Since Malack's staff eliminated the time between death and rebirth, does it also give Durkon an effective "rest"?

Either way, Malack and Durkon's fight has severely limited the effectiveness of both Guild and Order right before Xykon's due to show up. And V's still unaccounted for (s/he might outclass two spent vampires right now, though it's unclear to me how that fight would really work). Seriously, you've knotted yourself up an impressively interesting climax here, Giant.

And all while wrestling with the rules.

[Heenett]

You are truly an amazing storyteller, Giant. I've been reading OOTS since Miko's era and I can say that it's one of the most amazing stories I've ever read.
______
Guys, how badly does one's personality changes when you are revived into a vampire? I was kinda hoping that Durkon would try to resist. And also, the oracle predicted that Durkon would come home posthumously. Technically, he died, so if restored to his original condition he would be able to live happily ever after in his lands while also fulfilling the prophecy. But that's my hopeful side talking :smallfrown:

[One Skunk Todd]

No way they'll be able to hold the gate, not with Xykon and Tarquin both there.

We can always hold out hope that Team Evil and the LG will start fighting each other.

[RNGgod]

Depending on just how Malack's lawfulness is defined, we could very well expect something along the lines of

"I promised Brother Thundershield I would not harm you, halfling. I did not, however, promise him he would not do the same."

[Lord Ensifer]

I am very, very concerned for the fate of Mr. Scruffy.

[Geordnet]

Depending on just how Malack's lawfulness is defined, we could very well expect something along the lines of

"I promised Brother Thundershield I would not harm you, halfling. I did not, however, promise him he would not do the same."
I sure hope nothing like that happens. Especially not to Mr. Scruffy. :smalleek:

[One Skunk Todd]

He'll would freeze over before Belkar hurt Scruffy.

If Malack ordered Belkar to kill Mr. Scruffy, is that something that could break the domination?

Edit: typo

[Dire Lemming]

Incidentally, there is a possibility this transformation fulfilled the final requirement in Malack becoming a Vampire Lord.

:smallconfused:

[NotScaryBats]

Yes. I really like this development, and I think it is great. Hard-won, and impressive, I like the dynamic panels you've been using, and I am just all about this <3

[fibonacciseries]

Well, I wish I could say that I'm surprised, but...
I wonder in what accent Count Durkula will speak? Scottish? Transylvanian? Both?!?!

[Mutant Sheep]

Depending on just how Malack's lawfulness is defined, we could very well expect something along the lines of

"I promised Brother Thundershield I would not harm you, halfling. I did not, however, promise him he would not do the same."

He never actually promised, so that doesn't really work. Breaking the spirit of a promise you never made through wordplay is unnecessary when you have no wordplay to work around.

[eras10]

<quote>You and me both.</quote>

I understand why it would be frustrating for an author to have people's capabilities limited by complicated rules, but I just wanted to say, for the record, that the best works of fantasy and sci-fi, in my opinion, work within a system of arbitrary constraints on the fantastic capabilities, they take those constraints seriously, and they make efforts not to have those constraints change for narrative convenience. From Asimov's three laws to Robert Jordan's stupidly complex magic system (which I admire a lot), they do it, and it works really well. (Until it gets too complicated, but that's another story).

The bad stories are the ones where the heroes just always win because they're the heroes, and it always looks like they're doomed, but then some critical loophole comes up at the last minute that makes the whole system not really make sense but the issue is never examined. Like, I don't know, Popeye's amazing can of spinach that he alone among mortals can possess that renders the entire prior fight meaningless and predictable.

A big part of why Rich's work is so interesting, is this system that he is chained to. Watching the human qualities of the characters win or lose according to the rules of this game system, which in turn are trying to imitate why fantastic battles would really be won or lost. It's so much better than magic systems that are like sword fights with fireballs where both people just push against each other going "grrrr" and then whoever the author wants to win, just wins.

This post of mine isn't the best written thing ever, but I really believe that Rich understand the power that the D&D system gives to stories, which is why he tries so hard to work within the system, even though it drives him crazy.

To put it another way, Durkon lost for a reason. Malack wasn't just conveniently powerful enough to kill him for pathos' sake, and he won't be offed next comic by a plucky commoner with a good heart. D&D forces things in this comic to happen for reasons. It makes things "plausible". It enforces discipline.

Edited to make clearer that I think Rich's work does a very good job of respecting those constraints and that doing so mostly helps his story. At least for me. At least I'm guessing that that is part of what I like to read.

[Alaris]

You know, while D&D might present occasional hiccups in the storytelling here (you have to spend a few speech bubbles explaining how Malack is able to hasten the undead-ifying action), it really has been a boon to the overall strip. For every minor inconvenience, there's a great nerd gag; for every necessary "oh-and-by-the-way" house rule, there's a deeply interesting way of commenting on human nature by way of examining an arbitrary set of rules.

Now, that said: I've never played D&D (read lots of source books, never have had any friends who are the least bit interested), so I'm not sure how spell slots work. I assume Malack has burned all his best spells, but will Durkon get replenished slots due to the transformation here? Since Malack's staff eliminated the time between death and rebirth, does it also give Durkon an effective "rest"?

Either way, Malack and Durkon's fight has severely limited the effectiveness of both Guild and Order right before Xykon's due to show up. And V's still unaccounted for (s/he might outclass two spent vampires right now, though it's unclear to me how that fight would really work). Seriously, you've knotted yourself up an impressively interesting climax here, Giant.

And all while wrestling with the rules.

RAW, Durkon won't be getting his spells back. Infact, because he went unconscious, he would lose all the spells he had left, and be required 8 hours of "Rest" (Not necessarily sleep).

[Doxkid]

Promise? He never agreed to that; Durkon babble away while Malack nibbled on his neck.

Now, I can certainly see Malack honoring that request considering the moment of silence and respect for Durkon's body he seemed to display...

---
Prediction: Durkon is released from Malack's service. Problems happen.

[Alaris]

If Malack ordeed Belkar to kill Mr. Scruffy, is that something that could break the domination?

It's possible that "Kill your Animal Companion" would go against his nature, and thus allow him another Will Save Vs. the Domination. (Who knows, Belkar could roll a Nat20).

[Sir_Leorik]

Poor Durkon. So much for any hope he could be staked before becoming a Vampire. :smallfrown:

What on Oerth is up with that staff?!? Its practically a minor artifact if it can speed up the process of siring a new Vampire! (Though it definitely cuts down on the narrative problems of needing to hold a burial and then waiting a few days. :smallsmile:) Oh, and Belkar's gonna be drained next. That's bad, right?

As for Malack... he committed fratricide. Lovely. He's even outdone Count Strahd von Zarovich: Strahd only murdered and drank the blood of one of his two brothers. I bet all the Malack apologists will find that tender somehow. :smallannoyed:

[Deviljho]

<quote>You and me both.</quote>

I understand why it would be frustrating for an author to have people's capabilities limited by complicated rules, but I just wanted to say, for the record, that the best works of fantasy and sci-fi, in my opinion, work within a system of arbitrary constraints on the fantastic capabilities, they take those constraints seriously, and they make efforts not to have those constraints change for narrative convenience. From Asimov's three laws to Robert Jordan's stupidly complex magic system (which I admire a lot), they do it, and it works really well. (Until it gets too complicated, but that's another story).

The bad stories are the ones where the heroes just always win because they're the heroes, and it always looks like they're doomed, but then some critical loophole comes up at the last minute that makes the whole system not really make sense but the issue is never examined. Like, I don't know, Popeye's amazing can of spinach that he alone among mortals can possess that renders the entire prior fight meaningless and predictable.

A big part of why Rich's work is so interesting, is this system that he is chained to. Watching the human qualities of the characters win or lose according to the rules of this game system, which in turn are trying to imitate why fantastic battles would really be won or lost. It's so much better than magic systems that are like sword fights with fireballs where both people just push against each other going "grrrr" and then whoever the author wants to win, just wins.

This isn't the best written thing ever, but I really believe that Rich understand the power that the D&D system gives to stories, which is why he tries so hard to work within the system, even though it drives him crazy.

To put it another way, Durkon lost for a reason. Malack wasn't just conveniently powerful enough to kill him for pathos' sake, and he won't be offed next comic by a plucky commoner with a good heart. D&D forces things in this comic to happen for reasons. It makes things "plausible". It enforces discipline.

Edited to make clearer that I think Rich's work does a very good job of respecting those constraints and that doing so mostly helps his story. At least for me. At least I'm guessing that that is part of what I like to read.

This sounds a little bit like A Song of Ice and Fire, where everybody can die...

[RNGgod]

I suppose it's possible that Durkon will stay Durkon, and be a really nice bloke, and that his storyline will be whether the biological conditions of vampirism cause him to act evily.

I mean, this story shows up a lot. "I don't want to hurt anyone, but I need to drink blood to survive" and over time your will breaks down and you start munching.

[Porthos]

It's possible that "Kill your Animal Companion" would go against his nature, and thus allow him another Will Save Vs. the Domination. (Who knows, Belkar could roll a Nat20).

Massive circumstance bonus should apply in that case.

[headhoncho]

He'll would freeze over before Belkar hurt Scruffy.

We'll have to see how complete the personality change is for the undead, based on the tone I read from the death of the goth necromancer theurge whose name I've forgotten, it seemed pretty comprehensive.

[Kairamek]

Return home posthumously... Leading disaster in his return... Beautiful. Brings a tear to my eye. Not for fallen or his no-so-peaceful rest, but for the story crafting. I enjoy seeing a master at work.

[LasVegasLawyer]

Interesting that Durkula's Holy Symbol is black now, while Malak's is red. Does that mean that he isn't dedicated to anyone, or does that mean something much more sinister?

And, is it just me, or his beard more.. pointy?

[Samurian]

I finally made an account to point out an observation I just made. Once the staff touched Durkon's corpse D's smile went away. Btw, the character the registration process asked me to identify was Durkon, thanks automated process.

[Quorothorn]

Welp...

The placement of the arms and that moment of quiet in panel 4 were very good touches on The Giant's part.

[mawexzon]

Yay, character development.

[Blaknic]

If Malack ordeed Belkar to kill Mr. Scruffy, is that something that could break the domination?

This wouldn't be the first time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html) Mr. Scruffy broke a domination.
My prediction:Mr. Scruffy actually used "dispel magic" or some similar back there, and has been hiding divine powers the entire time-why do you think a man as shrewd as Shojo chose THAT cat? Order of the Stick, meet your new divine caster- a druid hidden in wildshape for years.

[Geordnet]

Well, I wish I could say that I'm surprised, but...
I wonder in what accent Count Durkula will speak? Scottish? Transylvanian? Both?!?!
Pennsylvania Dutch? :smalltongue:

[Alaris]

Massive circumstance bonus should apply in that case.

I certainly hope so! Belkar is one of my favorite characters, and he wouldn't be nearly as awesome (Vampire or not) without Mr. Scruffy!

[Sir_Leorik]

RAW, Durkon won't be getting his spells back. Infact, because he went unconscious, he would lose all the spells he had left, and be required 8 hours of "Rest" (Not necessarily sleep).

No, he'd still have the spells he prepared and had not cast. He will lose his Domain spells and Domain abilities, since he is a Vampire now.

[Hendenicholas]

I'm not sure how it'd work with 2:1 or if Count Durkula gets any bonuses, but I"m thinking the Count goes for Mr. Scruffy, Belkar breaks free of Vampiric Gaze, and fights him to the death. Possibly (re)kills him just as the rest of the Order walks in, possibly gets to off a teammate "for the good of the group". Finally.

Also, I don't know a lot about D&D but would Count Durkula still be able to worship Thor? If not Thor then Hel since she's the Norse...Dwarven! goddess of the dead?

[headhoncho]

This wouldn't be the first time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html) Mr. Scruffy broke a domination.

Once Belkar is vamped, no more domination is necessary. He will just (likely) be a starving vampire with a newly (extra-strength) evil personality.

[Alaris]

No, he'd still have the spells he prepared and had not cast. He will lose his Domain spells and Domain abilities, since he is a Vampire now.

Huh... I could have sworn that Prepared Casters lose all their prepared spells when they go unconscious...

[Thrillhouse]

Ironically, the best hope for the good guys now would be for Xykon and Redcloak to show up and knock off a few Linear Guild members...

[Alaris]

I'm not sure how it'd work with 2:1 or if Count Durkula gets any bonuses, but I"m thinking the Count goes for Mr. Scruffy, Belkar breaks free of Vampiric Gaze, and fights him to the death. Possibly (re)kills him just as the rest of the Order walks in, possibly gets to off a teammate "for the good of the group". Finally.

Also, I don't know a lot about D&D but would Count Durkula still be able to worship Thor? If not Thor then Hel since she's the Norse...Dwarven! goddess of the dead?

He COULD still worship Thor... but if (as the Rules state) his alignment switches to Evil, then he ceases getting spells and abilities from Thor. He could however, switch deities (to Hel, or Nergal).


Once Belkar is vamped, no more domination is necessary. He will just (likely) be a starving vampire with a newly (extra-strength) evil personality.

This is true... now we just have to hope that one does not lose all of their sense of self when they go Vampire. We'll find out next strip, with Durkon.

If Belkar could retain some of his sense of self, he could retain that Mr. Scruffy is his friend, and he doesn't want to eat his friend. His companion.

[SavageWombat]

Huh... I could have sworn that Prepared Casters lose all their prepared spells when they go unconscious...

That was a rule many many years ago. Doesn't apply in 3rd on.

[ti'esar]

Ironically, the best hope for the good guys now would be for Xykon and Redcloak to show up and knock off a few Linear Guild members...

I'm actually expecting this. Both Malack and the vamped Durkon have to be pretty low on spells right now, and the staff looks more like a plot device than it does a combat tool.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Vampires cannot drink alcohol. Vampires have no reflections in mirrors, and as such cannot style any beards. Durkon can no longer use his holy symbols.

Durkon can no longer be a member of the order; he can no longer heal the other members of the order, he can no longer be friends with Vaarsuvius, Haley, Elan, and Roy.

He can never again truly feel the sun shining on his face, the same sun that shines on his dwarven homelands, the same sun that shines so clean and true after one of Thor's storms. The sun is what gives life, and even tunnelers like dwarves know it, it's nourishing heat sustains earthly existence. Flowers bloom in the sun. The sun symbolizes the new day, the hope of life and renewal. We speak of the light at the end of the tunnel, how night is darkest just before the dawn, that one must keep on living and fighting the good fight because the sun will rise again.

Durkon must hide himself from that very sun.

A vampire is a creature dominated by urges beyond its control. It must have blood to survive, and this instinct shall always be in his mind, screaming at him for more; though the rest of him may protest it. Durkon has to live knowing that he is a danger to all living things; that for the safety of the Order, he should probably avoid being with the Order.

Being a dwarf is about doing your duty, despite what you feel. Being a vampire is about being overcome by your feelings and urges.

And a silver tanker of ale? 'Twould be painful just to touch it.

:furious::smallfurious::furious:

[gamephil]

You and me both.

I'm not sure I see why this is any different from any other established "fact" in fiction not based on a game system, though. They can still get in the way, have rabid fans denouncing any deviations, and so on.

[Traab]

I still say good clerics should have some sort of auto protection from becoming undead against their will. I mean come on! This isnt some random follower of thor, this is a guy who talks to thor on a regular basis and gets answers! The least thor could do is smite his ass with a lightning bolt and turn him to ash before letting him become a vampire. I dont know about you guys, but thats how I would prefer to go.

[Blaknic]

Huh... I could have sworn that Prepared Casters lose all their prepared spells when they go unconscious...

Euuch, that'd be a nightmare :smallyuk:
Imagine- during a hard battle, your cleric is incap'd. Now your entire team has no more heals for the rest of the day, even if you wake him up.
Or imagine how much fun it would be to play a wizard! Get knocked out? Have fun with the dagger proficiency that is now your only use.

[One Skunk Todd]

Well, I wish I could say that I'm surprised, but...
I wonder in what accent Count Durkula will speak? Scottish? Transylvanian? Both?!?!

Scottsylvanian? Transylvottish? :)

[Ellye]

Oh my...

He looks cooler than I thought he would!

[Sir_Leorik]

Huh... I could have sworn that Prepared Casters lose all their prepared spells when they go unconscious...

Well, Durkon didn't "go unconscious", he died from Constitution drain. Had Malack allowed Durkon to be buried, he'd probably need to prepare new spells when he rose, but Malack sped things along. I'm not really sure the 3.5 rules cover this.

[Alaris]

That was a rule many many years ago. Doesn't apply in 3rd on.

Funny... since I've never played anything but 3.5 and Pathfinder... maybe my DM has a house rule for that...

[WoLong]

Vampires cannot drink alcohol. Vampires have no reflections in mirrors, and as such cannot style any beards. Durkon can no longer use his holy symbols.

[SnipSnipSnip]

:furious::smallfurious::furious:

Geez, you're a downer.

[Nogster]

Why does everyone think he's going to be evil? I will have more problem if he comes back as a vampire 30 seconds after being dead and is suddenly without morals. He's going to fight the compulsion... which doesn't bode well for the lesser of two evils option: Mr. Scruffy.

[HPV]

Whoa. Thought this would happen, but still got chills.

Regarding explanations, M could have just said the bit about 3 days in the grave*, pointed the staff at Durkula, and said "let's hasten the process." The point would have gotten across.

*"refreshing as it is" - great throwaway line.

Because now it's been established that the staff holds other spells, like, for example, Protection from Sunlight? which would be handy if, say, Malack gets killed during this arc and Durkon needs to leave the pyramid.

That last panel looks bad for the "vampires don't have to be evil" theory, but this could be the result of Durkon's post creation hunger causing him to vamp-out.

My personal tin-foil hat/grasping-at-straws theory is that there might be enough of Durkon left in there that he won't want to eat Belkar when there's the choice of a nice juicy cat to sate his undead hunger with. The loss of Scruffy would upset Belkar to the point that he'd surely get a chance to break Malack's domination (he was talking about how much scruffy meant only a few strips ago) at which point Belkar goes all barbarian rage and somehow slays Malack, freeing Durkon in the process.
If Rich is going to subvert the vampires are always evil rule this leaves the OotS in a much less bad place, as Belkar won't be dead/dominated/vamped and Durkon, while still a vampire, might have the free will to assert his old nature and a magic item which will allow him to leave the pyramid along with the party.
This turn could also lead to some interesting mutual support & counselling between Durkon and V, as V can very much attest to it being one's deeds rather than ones creature type which determines whether you're good or evil.

Dunno, it all feels a bit a stretch I admit, but the alternative seems to be that we lose a third of the party here, and that raises serious questions about how the OotS have any hope of succeeding against the LG, let alone team Evil. So I'm looking at this situation from a narrative PoV (bearing in mind that Elan is prophesied to have a happy ending) rather than just wanting the heroes not to die/fail.

Whatever the outcome I can't wait to see how the Giant is planning this all to go! :smallsmile:

EDIT: Gods this thread's shifting fast, two pages and at least as many ninjas on the Scruffy is Durkon's first blood meal theory, while I was typing the above!

[Sir_Leorik]

I still say good clerics should have some sort of auto protection from becoming undead against their will. I mean come on! This isnt some random follower of thor, this is a guy who talks to thor on a regular basis and gets answers! The least thor could do is smite his ass with a lightning bolt and turn him to ash before letting him become a vampire. I dont know about you guys, but thats how I would prefer to go.

There already is a protection: the Gentle Repose spell.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

It's alive! Well, he's life signs negative, but up and kicking if you want to get technical about it. You know what I'm saying.

...

What?

[Dire Lemming]

Geez, you're a downer.
That made me laugh harder than I should have, if I should have laughed at all.

...sorry to everyone for possibly wasting around seven seconds of their lives. :smallfrown:

[Sir_Leorik]

Why does everyone think he's going to be evil? I will have more problem if he comes back as a vampire 30 seconds after being dead and is suddenly without morals. He's going to fight the compulsion... which doesn't bode well for the lesser of two evils option: Mr. Scruffy.

Because he's probably Malack's slave, forced to obey his every order (despite the protestations of fraternity by Malack)? And Malack is EVIL?

[Alaris]

Why does everyone think he's going to be evil? I will have more problem if he comes back as a vampire 30 seconds after being dead and is suddenly without morals. He's going to fight the compulsion... which doesn't bode well for the lesser of two evils option: Mr. Scruffy.

People think he's going to go evil because, Rules as Written, in D&D 3.5, a Vampire is ALWAYS evil. Therefore, his alignment would immediately change.

I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, Rich (The Giant) doesn't follow this particular rule...

[Omnicrat]

I'm thinking (hoping?) that "RRAARGHH" is how new vampires greet the world. After that, D clears his throat and says something that indicates he still has his faculties.

This is exactly what I expect to happen.

I also expect Durkon to be an oddball alignment case, but that might just be hope...

[eras10]

One more thing - I never saw this coming in a million years - still can't believe Durkon is gone - but in my opinion this makes one thing that's been unclear for a long time a lot clearer.

There have always been too many teams/forces interested in this gate, way more than the other gates, to make you confident that OOTS was likely to be able to hack through them one fight at a time. until now, though, it was possible that they would kill off the Linear Guild of Tarquin, only to be forced to confront Xykon at their moment of weakness.

They still are probably going to have to face Mr. Jolly Skeleton with a crippled team, but it's clear now that they aren't going to finish off the Tarquin Guild first. Somehow, maybe through Elan's good idea, the LG are going to be pacified or neutralized as a threat without combat, because Roy, Elan, and Haley don't stand a chance against Malack, Tarquin, ZZditri and Vampire Durkon. And Nale, I suppose.

I don't think that Roy, haley and Elan could even take Vampire Durkon and Malack, although I suppose they're both low on spells at this exact moment.

One thing's for sure, Roy's elaborate anti-xykon fight plan is shot to heck.

[coineineagh]

REVENGE of the PC with the least in-comic face time.
"Think I'm uptight and boring, huh? How do you like me now? Where's my extra gloomy gothic eyeshadow?":smallcool:

Go Durkon! {or, the undead monstrosity controlling Durkon's memories and corpse, but without his personality}

I read somewhere that vampires always get chaotic personality, so I wonder how this affects Durkon. He might just trump Belkar as comedy gold now...

[sndream]

But OOTS can still turn Durkon back by killing him first and then resurrect him, right?

[Harry Leipzig]

Pennsylvania Dutch? :smalltongue:

I support this. I live in Lancaster, PA. It's a German accent, but with slightly harder "r"s than standard German.

[Agnostik]

You know, while D&D might present occasional hiccups in the storytelling here (you have to spend a few speech bubbles explaining how Malack is able to hasten the undead-ifying action), it really has been a boon to the overall strip. For every minor inconvenience, there's a great nerd gag; for every necessary "oh-and-by-the-way" house rule, there's a deeply interesting way of commenting on human nature by way of examining an arbitrary set of rules.
Oh yes, no argument there, that's why I said I only slightly regret that. I find these explanations are akin to footnotes in a book: necessary and often informative, but distracting you from the story just a tiny bit.

[isleofredemptio]

Well... we all kind of knew this was coming, which made it a tad anticlimactic, but still. One has to wonder exactly how the hell the Order is going to get anything accomplished now. Hell, they could barely get anything accomplished in the six minutes the whole group was together. Now they're down to three. Xykon and Redcloak are gonna slaughter them, no matter what arrangement of Order/Guild we're looking at; they've softened themselves up nicely for the real baddies.

*Rubs temples* Elan's prophecy, Elan's prophecy, Elan's prophecy...

[Samurian]

Because now it's been established that the staff holds other spells, like, for example, Protection from Sunlight? which would be handy if, say, Malack gets killed during this arc and Durkon needs to leave the pyramid.

That last panel looks bad for the "vampires don't have to be evil" theory, but this could be the result of Durkon's post creation hunger causing him to vamp-out.

My personal tin-foil hat/grasping-at-straws theory is that there might be enough of Durkon left in there that he won't want to eat Belkar when there's the choice of a nice juicy cat to sate his undead hunger with. The loss of Scruffy would upset Belkar to the point that he'd surely get a chance to break Malack's domination (he was talking about how much scruffy meant only a few strips ago) at which point Belkar goes all barbarian rage and somehow slays Malack, freeing Durkon in the process.
If Rich is going to subvert the vampires are always evil rule this leaves the OotS in a much less bad place, as Belkar won't be dead/dominated/vamped and Durkon, while still a vampire, might have the free will to assert his old nature and a magic item which will allow him to leave the pyramid along with the party.
This turn could also lead to some interesting mutual support & counselling between Durkon and V, as V can very much attest to it being one's deeds rather than ones creature type which determines whether you're good or evil.

Dunno, it all feels a bit a stretch I admit, but the alternative seems to be that we lose a third of the party here, and that raises serious questions about how the OotS have any hope of succeeding against the LG, let alone team Evil. So I'm looking at this situation from a narrative PoV (bearing in mind that Elan is prophesied to have a happy ending) rather than just wanting the heroes not to die/fail.

Whatever the outcome I can't wait to see how the Giant is planning this all to go! :smallsmile:

A thought occurs to me, if Durkon is able to return to the Order and Belkar survives Durkon will probably be bombarded by requests from the Belkster to vamp him out.

[Belkarsbro]

I was going to rant about Rich killing off Durkon, but after that last panel...

Good job, sir!

Looking forward to seeing Darth Durkon vs Roy.

[Wyntonian]

I kind of hate you, but at the same time...

http://i.imgur.com/bp90wJo.gif

[Sir_Leorik]

Funny... since I've never played anything but 3.5 and Pathfinder... maybe my DM has a house rule for that...

Embrace the dark side Alaris! Become a RULES LAWYER!!

[MeanMrsMustard]

*hasn't read the thread*
Holy fudgenuts. Durkon's scary in his Undead Armor Upgrade.
Also, "I had seven brothers. Their blood was delicious."
At least their relationship isn't gonna be the ultimately creepy parent-child bond I was expecting. It'll be the significantly-less-creepy-but-still-pretty-creepy brotherly bond.
*resists urge to make "blood brothers" pun*

[Sir_Leorik]

But OOTS can still turn Durkon back by killing him first and then resurrect him, right?

If they can find a new cleric who can cast 7th level spells...

[Fitzclowningham]

Scottsylvanian? Transylvottish? :)

Transylvania Dutch.




Apologies to Geordnet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14829840&postcount=158) from whom I totally stole.

Edit: linked.

[Ellye]

I'm worried about Belkar.

[Alaris]

Embrace the dark side Alaris! Become a RULES LAWYER!!

Nuuu, I must resist! I must!


If they can find a new cleric who can cast 7th level spells...

Hilgya? >.< Or... that Cleric of Loki from the Greysky City Arc? He hada scroll...

[t209]

:smallfurious:Malack, When I see you, I will bring garlic bread and a good mace.

[Kish]

He's going to fight the compulsion... which doesn't bode well for the lesser of two evils option: Mr. Scruffy.
Uh. Between feeding on an innocent animal and feeding on a monster nearly as bad as Malack himself, I have a drastically different opinion than you do on which would be the lesser of two evils.


Durkon can no longer be a member of the order; he can no longer heal the other members of the order, he can no longer be friends with Vaarsuvius, Haley, Elan, and Roy.

He can never again truly feel the sun shining on his face, the same sun that shines on his dwarven homelands, the same sun that shines so clean and true after one of Thor's storms. The sun is what gives life, and even tunnelers like dwarves know it, it's nourishing heat sustains earthly existence. Flowers bloom in the sun. The sun symbolizes the new day, the hope of life and renewal. We speak of the light at the end of the tunnel, how night is darkest just before the dawn, that one must keep on living and fighting the good fight because the sun will rise again.

Durkon must hide himself from that very sun.

A vampire is a creature dominated by urges beyond its control. It must have blood to survive, and this instinct shall always be in his mind, screaming at him for more; though the rest of him may protest it. Durkon has to live knowing that he is a danger to all living things; that for the safety of the Order, he should probably avoid being with the Order.

Being a dwarf is about doing your duty, despite what you feel. Being a vampire is about being overcome by your feelings and urges.
Dude, Malack proves that a vampire is not barred from casting healing spells nor, with a spell Malack already knows, from walking in the sunlight.

This...is bad. Sufficiently bad to send Malack to the top of my personal "OotS characters who need to SUFFER" list. But let's not make it sound worse for poor Durkon than it actually is, eh? Hopefully, in a couple hundred strips, "That time I got turned into a vampire, staked, then resurrected" will be nothing more than an unpleasant memory for him. (More of a concern is the death and destruction he's going to bring to his homeland, likely before any resurrection that takes place.)

[Omnicrat]

If Malack ordered Belkar to kill Mr. Scruffy, is that something that could break the domination?

Edit: typo

Probably the only thing.

[Ajadea]

Giant stop punching me in the feels. I don't know how much more of this I can take...

At first, when Malack said 'seven brothers' I thought they were fellow vampires turned by him, and then when he said that they were part of his former (i.e. actually living) life, I thought he was going to say something positive about the familial bond. No. He ate them. And here I was twenty strips ago thinking he was a nice guy cajoled into working with Nale by the bonds of friendship and the promise of vengeance for his offspring (yeah, I was part of the camp that thought he was an albino LN lizardfolk with real kids, right up until he started chomping on Belkar).

Durkon stops smiling in the second to last panel, like he knows what's about to happen to him. I hope that in Malack's desire for a colleague, he frees Durkon from his control, allowing his personality to reassert itself. I hope this is where long years of D&D convention is proven wrong - that Durkon has enough of a conscience remaining to retain his moral compass, even with an overwhelming hunger for blood now hindering his ability to make the right choice. I hope that he remains stable and loyal and kind, even if he is no longer good.

At the very least, I hope that he manages to get into the LG afterlife, even after all that has been done to him and all he may do.

[Turgon9357]

So how much of Durkon are we looking at now?

I'm a bit confused as to how this part of vampirization works. Has the Durkon we know already been shuttled off to the lawful good afterlife, and his body is being used by some evil spirit, or is this still the same Durkon, only thoroughly corrupted by negative magic?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Durkon has a Magnetic shield! Malack places Dead Durkon on his shield, and when he rises again, its firmly on his back! Oh and NOOOOOOOO! Vampire Durkon! :smalleek:

[Gorgon_Heap]

This is just so bloody riveting!!!

[Harry Leipzig]

Saw it coming, but still not happy.

Well, this looks terrible, but I still hold out hope that Durkon will not turn against the team. Evil seems like a strong likelihood, V's costume turned black during the soul splice, and that dark grey armor isn't looking too comforting. Although, Roy may still be willing to work with another Evil teammate, especially if it's his best friend.

Also, can we pause to appreciate that Malack killed his brothers when he turned into a vampire? The guy is as evil as you can get. Damn you, Malack!

I assume that D&D vampires retain their memories of their true lives? The way Malack was talking, pre-undeath and undeath souls/identities/whatever are distinct. Or was that just really old vampire speak?

[Forikroder]

Why does everyone think he's going to be evil? I will have more problem if he comes back as a vampire 30 seconds after being dead and is suddenly without morals. He's going to fight the compulsion... which doesn't bode well for the lesser of two evils option: Mr. Scruffy.

because the dark magic used to bring him back to life (not the dark magic used to hasten his revival) will make him evil

[Sir_Leorik]

Another think I wonder about, does Malack's attitude in this strip imply that he is going to release Durkon from his control?

Based on everything we've learned about Malack in the past week, that seems a little out of character. He'd be more likely to at least keep Durkon on a leash until he was sure "Brother Thundershield" was loyal to him.

[Kish]

I think Malack meant "complicated way of annihilating the person I am today" metaphorically, not literally.

[darkelf]

okay, durkon's angry in the last panel. but that's not the anger of a bloodthirsty vampire, its the anger of a dwarf who was *this* close to valhalla and *real beer* again, and has been denied.

[SaintRidley]

Well, on the plus side, if Durkon does turn Belkar into a vampire it will be the first time Belkar is truly under the control of a member of the Order.

Of course, Durkon needs to be able to rejoin the Order for that to be true.

[Alaris]

I assume that D&D vampires retain their memories of their true lives? The way Malack was talking, pre-undeath and undeath souls/identities/whatever are distinct. Or was that just really old vampire speak?

That is the question of the day. I personally hope that Malak is simply 'a different entity' because he has spent 200 years of time to change, and not because "Vampire = Evil and Different" automatically.

But it could go either way... >.<

[sndream]

If they can find a new cleric who can cast 7th level spells...

I am not familiar with DnD rules. Are cleric capable of casting 7th level spell really rare?

Also, how come Malack still completely white while Durkon become a few shade darker?

[Rizzer]

Note sure if this question's been raised yet: with Durkon gone, how are Roy and the others going to get the Mass Death Ward they need to defeat Xykon?

Surely Mr Scruffy's not going to defeat Xykon all on his own??
(actually, that would be a beautiful feat... :) )

[Forikroder]

I think Malack meant "complicated way of annihilating the person I am today" metaphorically, not literally.

it was literal, if he was ressurected hed no longer have the personality shift taht comes with being a vampire so he would literally be a different person in a manner of speaking

[SaintRidley]

That is the question of the day. I personally hope that Malak is simply 'a different entity' because he has spent 200 years of time to change, and not because "Vampire = Evil and Different" automatically.

But it could go either way... >.<

This is how I would play it. I don't know how Rich will, but I would hope similarly.

[Thrillhouse]

I'm actually expecting this. Both Malack and the vamped Durkon have to be pretty low on spells right now, and the staff looks more like a plot device than it does a combat tool.

Actually, could an injured(from the fall) V still possessing most of his Spells defeat Malack, Durkon, and Belkar? Particularly with Malack and Durkon basically out of spells and Belkar paralyzed and slightly injured?

[Horatius]

It's shark-jumping, stop-reading-the-comic time.

May everyone else continue to enjoy the comic, I'm out.

[Alaris]

I am not familiar with DnD rules. Are cleric capable of casting 7th level spell really rare?

Well... it's 7 levels higher than the lowest level spell that can be cast (0th), and 3 levels lower than the highest level spell that can be cast (10th/Epic).

So... it's pretty high level. Another way to put it is... you need to be 13th level Cleric to cast 7th level spells.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Dude, Malack proves that a vampire is not barred from casting healing spells nor, with a spell Malack already knows, from walking in the sunlight.

This...is bad. Sufficiently bad to send Malack to the top of my personal "OotS characters who need to SUFFER" list. But let's not make it sound worse for poor Durkon than it actually is, eh? Hopefully, in a couple hundred strips, "That time I got turned into a vampire, staked, then resurrected" will be nothing more than an unpleasant memory for him. (More of a concern is the death and destruction he's going to bring to his homeland, likely before any resurrection that takes place.)

Well, he can't really feel sunlight if he has a spell protecting him from it. I think that that kind of spell would make you not feel the sunlight.

Also, wouldn't being vampired make Durkon lose his cleric level, a la fallen Paladin? Aren't vampires unholy abominations and perversions of nature; so how would they use holy magic? Malack has his Nergal, but I don't think that Thor will support Count Durkula.

I assumed that Thor de-powered (or stopped doing whatever it is that gods do to power clerics) Brother Thundershield so as to prevent Count Durkula from being unduly powerful or somesuch.

Or maybe I'm wrong; it's not like I know all that much about the rules of DND.

[Deuce]

...So. Plan Y, then? Or shall we skip right to Z?

I'm out of ideas. I'm dry as to how the Order gets out of this mess, sadly. :smallfrown:

The IFC offers V a chance to double down. Nothing wrong here that a Wish couldn't handle. Of course, there is the small matter of the fee, which they will reduce and/or defer in order to keep the Order in the business of weakening the other sides.

[Dire Lemming]

Yes, because Malack elaborated on in what capacity he drank the blood of his brothers and why.

I don't think otherwise, but... assumptions. *Sighs.*

[Porthos]

okay, durkon's angry in the last panel. but that's not the anger of a bloodthirsty vampire, its the anger of a dwarf who was *this* close to valhalla and *real beer* again, and has been denied.

Ok, that made me laugh. It was a clipped sort of laugh closer to a snort. But it was a laugh, nontheless. :smallbiggrin:

[SaintRidley]

It's shark-jumping, stop-reading-the-comic time.

May everyone else continue to enjoy the comic, I'm out.

Not sure what's shark-jumping about it, but have a good rest of your life, I guess.

[Alaris]

It's shark-jumping, stop-reading-the-comic time.

May everyone else continue to enjoy the comic, I'm out.

I am somewhat curious as to what you thought made the comic unworthy of enjoying for you?

[SaintRidley]

Well, he can't really feel sunlight if he has a spell protecting him from it. I think that that kind of spell would make you not feel the sunlight.

Also, wouldn't being vampired make Durkon lose his cleric level, a la fallen Paladin? Aren't vampires unholy abominations and perversions of nature; so how would they use holy magic? Malack has his Nergal, but I don't think that Thor will support Count Durkula.

I assumed that Thor de-powered (or stopped doing whatever it is that gods do to power clerics) Brother Thundershield so as to prevent Count Durkula from being unduly powerful or somesuch.

Or maybe I'm wrong; it's not like I know all that much about the rules of DND.

Durkon keeps his cleric abilities. His Turn Undead becomes Rebuke Undead, and until he finds a new patron deity he's stuck with a limited choice of domains: Chaos, Evil, Death, Trickery.

[Belkar<3]

Who wants to bet Belkar is going to kill Malack because he screws with his cat
I give 100% chance that he'll get mad.
10% chance he'll actually kill him- Malack is too good of a villain for Rich to kill quickly.

[RabidEel]

At first, when Malack said 'seven brothers' I thought they were fellow vampires turned by him, and then when he said that they were part of his former (i.e. actually living) life, I thought he was going to say something positive about the familial bond. No. He ate them. And here I was twenty strips ago thinking he was a nice guy cajoled into working with Nale by the bonds of friendship and the promise of vengeance for his offspring (yeah, I was part of the camp that thought he was an albino LN lizardfolk with real kids, right up until he started chomping on Belkar).

Am I imagining the sad, regretful expression on his face, then? I thought maybe he hadn't intended to eat his family, but lost control of himself.

But if the other people commenting all have no idea what I'm talking about, then I guess I'll defer to their judgement.

[Xelbiuj]

Meh, I like rules lawyering and basing the story off a game system. It keeps things in check. After all, the real world is made up a physical laws.
No fiction worse than fantasy where magic is wholly arbitrary.
It's also a sort of built in anti-deus ex machina mechanism.

Panel 5 seems like a sort of jaded jab at the readers, a simple "Hasten Undead Creation!" + *zap* would have worked, I think everyone would have got that's it's homebrew.

/2cents

Good comic though.

[atatassault]

It's shark-jumping, stop-reading-the-comic time.

May everyone else continue to enjoy the comic, I'm out.How is this jumping the Shark? This is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect to happen in a Fantasy Setting (and in DnD with a GM who cares more about the logical consistency of the story and NPC actions than a GM who cares more about the players).

Durkon just pulled a really short straw searching for Belkar alone.

[RNGgod]

It's shark-jumping, stop-reading-the-comic time.

May everyone else continue to enjoy the comic, I'm out.

I'd say, "more comic for the rest of us," but OotS is non-rival in consumption.

See ya.

[Angulf]

Is Malack still Neutral? =P

Poor Durkon... this is really bad news. Can't wait to see what happens next!

[Porthos]

It's shark-jumping time...

"I do not think that phrase means what you think it means". :smallwink:

Alternatively, "Jump the Shark": The most misused phrase since Horace* first coined the phrase "Deus ex Machina". :smalltongue:

* I know, I know. Just roll with it. :smallwink:

[Traab]

Well... it's 7 levels higher than the lowest level spell that can be cast (0th), and 3 levels lower than the highest level spell that can be cast (10th/Epic).

So... it's pretty high level. Another way to put it is... you need to be 13th level Cleric to cast 7th level spells.

And if I understand correctly, its generally adventurers and high priest types that reach levels that high. Not counting npc classes like nobleman. Take the whole order of the sapphire guard thing. These are npcs that dedicated their lives to being paladins, and our favorite lich lord waltzed through a small army of them like it was nothing. Even them being brought back as ghosts and the bonuses against his magic that granted made most of them just annoying, not counting Soon. So yeah, finding high enough level clerics will likely involve long side quests like getting roy brought back, or just finding the equivalent of the pope of whatever religion has its capitol nearby.

[Alaris]

Is Malack still Neutral? =P

Poor Durkon... this is really bad news. Can't wait to see what happens next!

Decidedly NOT neutral. At least, if I were the DM, he would solidly be EVIL. But that is Rich's call for his world, I suppose.

[Aquatosic]

As a vamp, does Count Durkula (name needs work) keep all the spells he had prepared before and buffs he had cast as long as they don't require him to be Good?:confused:

[Harry Leipzig]

How is this jumping the Shark? This is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect to happen in a Fantasy Setting (and in DnD with a GM who cares more about the logical consistency of the story and NPC actions than a GM who cares more about the players).

Durkon just pulled a really short straw searching for Belkar alone.

Yes, this isn't jumping the shark. If a popular character dies in an unsatisfactory manner, the Scrappy gets more screen time, or if a charcter's development falls flat, then it's jumping the shark. Now things are getting interesting. Durkon as a high-functioning Evil, Noble Demon character could be very scary. And awesome.:smallcool:

[Alaris]

And if I understand correctly, its generally adventurers and high priest types that reach levels that high. Not counting npc classes like nobleman. Take the whole order of the sapphire guard thing. These are npcs that dedicated their lives to being paladins, and our favorite lich lord waltzed through a small army of them like it was nothing. Even them being brought back as ghosts and the bonuses against his magic that granted made most of them just annoying, not counting Soon. So yeah, finding high enough level clerics will likely involve long side quests like getting roy brought back, or just finding the equivalent of the pope of whatever religion has its capitol nearby.

Indeed, that about sums it up my friend. You'll likely need an Adventuring-Type, or a High Priest-type. Which pretty much ensures a Side Quest (barring Hilgya showing up suddenly out of nowhere).

[ArlEammon]

I hope Durkon gets to go to Valhalla. :(
Or the Upper Planes (Celestia).

[Harry Leipzig]

I'd say, "more comic for the rest of us," but OotS is non-rival in consumption.

See ya.

...An economics joke? Hats off to you, my friend!:smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

Something subtle that I like: Durkon's corpse loses it's peaceful smile when Malack raises it but before Durkon's eyes un-double X. ie, BEFORE he should have control of his body again.

[Brianna_Sollandry]

****.

I don't know if I want to read this comic any more.

****.

[sihnfahl]

Am I imagining the sad, regretful expression on his face, then? I thought maybe he hadn't intended to eat his family, but lost control of himself.
Well, keep in mind that newly created vampires are, stereotypically, starving when they first 'wake'. So, in their desire to satisfy that blood hunger, they go after the first blooded being that's nearby ... barring that, that's in a familiar spot.

If family has a week-long funerary observation which means they stay near the loved ones' burial spot...

[Xelbiuj]

Indeed, that about sums it up my friend. You'll likely need an Adventuring-Type, or a High Priest-type. Which pretty much ensures a Side Quest (barring Hilgya showing up suddenly out of nowhere).

High Priest of Thor in Durkon's homeland/near Kraagor's gate seems like the most logical move.

[ti'esar]

Yes, this isn't jumping the shark. If a popular character dies in an unsatisfactory manner, the Scrappy gets more screen time, or if a charcter's development falls flat, then it's jumping the shark. Now things are getting interesting. Durkon as a high-functioning Evil, Noble Demon character could be very scary. And awesome.:smallcool:

Cool it with the tropes, man.

But yeah. I can only assume he either really likes Durkon, or he has a fairly low threshold for shark-jumping.

[Agnostik]

Is Malack still Neutral? =P
Definitely. He made that brute Durkon much better and stronger, and taught that bigot to respect not only life-forms but also unlife-forms.

Also, Malack's real brothers were all evil, he was the only neutral one. Also also, he commands Durkon to seek the blood of the EVIL living. You'll see that I'm right when Durkon fulfills Belkar's prophecy in the next strip or two.

[Sinner or Saint]

One, should Durkon Vamp Belkar it wouldn't be much of a personality shift for our little psychopath at least.

Two, the rest of the party has no idea what has transpired, or that Malack is even a Vampire. The question is, does Malack now takes his "brother" and regroup with the rest of the Linear Guild or try to finish off the party with his dominated Halfling and new best bud?

Three, I honestly am not sure if Team Evil or the Linear Guild would win in a drag out fight. With two High level Clerics, Z, Tarquin and all his tricks, and his other son; they might be a good challenge for Xylon and Wrong Eye.

[Gengy]

Count Durkula.

I don't think I can take this seriously after hearing that term.

But damn. The speculation here...

...is Durkon now evil? Does that make THREE Order members now very much in the Evil sector of alignment?

And most of all... as a "brother", and not a child of Malak, does that mean Durkon has "free will"? (ie, can he deny Malak's... requests, and will he continue to work for the Order of the Stick?)

The speculation abounds, I say!

...I do kind of hate you right now, Rich (just a tiny bit!) but damn do I love your story...

[TRH]

Hmm. As well as the Death and Destruction personified by Nergal matches up with the wording of Durkon's prophecy, am I the only one who thinks it would be a lot cooler for Count Durkula to take up the worship of Hel instead? It would certainly help keep him from getting excessively dehumanized if he still had to put up with the same silliness that Thor's put him through, just with an evil goddess instead. Just my two cents regarding him getting his spells back.