Can We Fix It? #2: What should we do next?

[Psycho Yuffie]

This is a poll to figure out which class we'll fix next out of 3.5 and Pathfinder. Whichever class gets the highest vote wins. Remember that you can suggest a class that isn't on the list, I'll add it in for you. :)

Votes
Barbarian: 0
Bard: 1
Cleric: 1
Commoner: 1
Druid: 0
Monk: 3
Paladin: 1
Ranger: 6
Rogue: 0
Sorcerer: 1
Wizard: 2

The voting will end tomorrow at some random time or whenever it's clear a class has an overwhelming lead.

Voting is now closed.

The ranger will be the focus of Can We Fix It #2. I will be posting the thread soon in the homebrew section. If you wish to follow it, you'll have to go there. Thanks.

[Darius Kane]

Commoner. It's almost as weak as Monk.

[ArcturusV]

Bard can tend to already be pretty dang powerful. So I'd vote for Paladin.

[MukkTB]

Can you link a previous thread? Does fixing mean altering its power to a specific tier or just rejigering the mechanics?

Anyway put me down for Wizard.

[ArcturusV]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274409

Previous one. We made the fighter "More powerful" but the intent seemed more along the lines of "Make the class do what it says on the tin".

So that might involve making stuff less powerful so it's more like what the hard sell on the class is? But so far it was just a straight buff to the fighter.

[avr]

If fixing means "Increasing its power, but keeping the same flavour and most of the mechanics" my vote is for Ranger. I think the PF Paladin is this treatment for the Paladin class and it works pretty well, and Bards can already be optimised as Arcturus says.

[Shaynythyryas]

Bards have been greatly fixed by PF (in the way that it offers him much music variety, avoiding the "full IC" of 3.5 - don't get me wrong, i'm in love with the bard, but as for me he totally lacks the music choice PH offerts him).

I'd go with Cleric. Great, great spells, but no class features at all, no reason at all for a cleric to, well, just stay cleric instead of multiclassing/prestigeclassing.

[Gildedragon]

I'd like to see what gets done for Monk that is not "take levels in unarmed swordsage"

[Amphetryon]

Another vote to fix Ranger.

[Karnith]

Seconding the vote for Monk.

[Palanan]

I'll put in another vote for Ranger, which I've always had a soft spot for, despite its draggy weakness.

(I personally love the Mystic Ranger, but Dragon content, alas.)

[Krobar]

Put me down for Sorcerer. Sorcerers need some help.

[HunterOfJello]

Ranger.

I've always felt that Ranger was half assed. They aren't as bad as the Monk, but a lot of their abilities seem to be all over the place and many of their decent abilities come into play far too late to be worthwhile.

[VGLordR2]

Rogue Shadows put out a PDF with his own fixes for all of the base classes in Core. It fixes a lot of the problems that the classes currently face. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it could be worth taking a look at for your purposes. The PDF can be found here (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B86CqQWWW_t7SmwtT2xFN3lQdjQ/edit), and design notes can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242561).

[Eldan]

Do a caster. They tend to get pretty much the only interesting fixes.

One vote for wizard. Might as well do the big one.

[Psycho Yuffie]

Rogue Shadows put out a PDF with his own fixes for all of the base classes in Core. It fixes a lot of the problems that the classes currently face. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it could be worth taking a look at for your purposes. The PDF can be found here (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B86CqQWWW_t7SmwtT2xFN3lQdjQ/edit), and design notes can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242561).
You're missing the point. These threads are to work as a community to create something new and interesting.

[VGLordR2]

You're missing the point. These threads are to work as a community to create something new and interesting.

I wasn't trying to say that this has already been done. I just wanted to share the document because there are a lot of useful ideas in there. It can't hurt to peruse through it and see what ideas other people had.

[Mcdt2]

I vote for the Ranger. Honestly, they really need it, they just don't feel very nature-y to me, because the druid steps all over them in that area. I want to see a ranger who out-natures the druid.

[Psycho Yuffie]

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the ranger has won, but I'll leave it open for another hour.

[Arcanist]

I vote Monk. Even at level 1,000 it still has trouble taking down a 20th level Wizard...

[Randomguy]

I vote Ranger.

[Psycho Yuffie]

Well, it's pretty safe to say that ranger won this round. :)

[Frosty]

Wait, are we fixing the PF ranger or the 3.5 ranger?

[ngilop]

both. would be my guess

[MukkTB]

What is the ideal fixed state anyway? Tier 3? Something else?

[ArcturusV]

I like to go with the stand "Does what it says on the Tin".

In the Ranger's case that is "Nature aligned warrior who specializes in light unit tactics" pretty much. Which the current ranger really doesn't for various reasons. I don't know if that would end up in what tier. But I think just having it do what the class thematically is supposed to do should be the primary victory condition here.

[ngilop]

well if the ranger does what the class is suuposed to do it would extremely solidly set in tier 3.

if you take a look at what JaronK says is the definition of each teir and his test of what tiers do in speciifc situations.

anywas cna we start giving ideas yet or..?

[ArcturusV]

Well, I figure first off would be making it fit the idea of a "natural" warrior more. Less "Sit and shoot" or "Sit and stab with two weapons". Needs more mobility built into the class. And needs it right off the bat. The easy answer would be to crib Skirmishing from the Scout, but I don't know if that's necessarily the right idea. It's a decent one though.

Spellcasting needs faster access than waiting for level 6 (Presuming no bonus points which can't be presumed considering the MAD nature of the ranger). I want to give it access from level 1. Still cap the spells up to level four, sure. But give them a few more spells per day and start them off with at least 1 per day. That will make the early level Ranger feel more like what it's supposed to be than feeling like just an inferior version of some two weapon fighting barbarian.

[ngilop]

Well I think the spells are perfect but caster level does need a bump.

I think animal companion and favored enemy are the 2 biggest offenders of what makes the ranger do bad.

also combat styles should do more than just give a bonuc feat they should have actual abilities IN ADDITION to the bonus feats.

as for mobility fast movement is good and ignoring natural terrain is pretty bawss.

[MukkTB]

If "Does what it says on the tin." is the only criteria I would say that as a tier 4 character the ranger adequately fills his fluff. Sure up to tier 3 would be better, but since the tier terminology isn't being consistently used then I hold that the ranger does at least manage to handle its fluff.

[Psycho Yuffie]

The new thread is officially up and waiting here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14836678#post14836678). :3