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Elixia
2013-03-05, 12:02 PM
Okay this is a long story,

Our DM is a writer, so he doesn't create games as such but stories and involving worlds, which can be very cool from time to time. Makes you feel highly involved in the world and strongly connect to it. I'm an avid role-player, I can get a little precious over my characters and make up quite detailed back-stories for them. My DM loves that since he gives plot hooks for his campaign ideas. I'm normally game for this kinda thing. But these recent series of campaigns are killing me ... or more my drive to play.

In a nut shell from the beginning of the second campaign, he had the BB kidnap my entire family just leaving my grandfather (adopted father figure) an old and very powerful wizard. Then at the end of the third took him and made it quite clear my character played as a pawn to this part of the BB plan. Then destroyed her home among other things. Out of the game he's made hints that I shouldn't count on them surviving.

When he faced a GM burnout, I offered to pick up the torch if he wished and I'd finish the last campaign in which he told me that I wont like the ending of the last campaign (which we are now half through) and wouldn't follow it through'

the last bit has really stuck in my head. I wont like the ending. So now i'm questioning, do i wanna finish? the other players have remarked that saying 'you wont like the ending' was a stupid thing to say, especially to someone as obsessive as me. I've remarked on how i feel to the group that i have no drive for the character anymore. the GM responded that my family still missing but i told him i feel that mute since that happened ages ago and given the BB blood bath killing spree what evidence do i have they're alive? Of course there's revenge but i didn't design the character to operate on revenge, in fact the amount of punches she's taken she's broken spirited. Not sure if he understood my POV.

Now the other players have put up with stupid plot hooks and gone along with it, the GM is longing to play a player again but really wants to finish this full story-arc campaign then retire from GMing. So I feel if I voice my opinion again I'm being selfish and don't want to 'break' the DM. TBH I don't think I can do much about this situation, I feel I have to keep playing and put up and shut up. Everyone wants to get to the end except me and that's selfish. I cant quit because that might snap the DM into a burnout. On the bright side, last encounter my character nearly dropped dead and i didn't fret or bat an eyelid. I played it mechanically and logically and stay faced. I just needed to get this off my chest.

JusticeZero
2013-03-05, 12:16 PM
Take a break. Have someone else run a short-ish oneshot in something else with a definite end. I liked the Ars Magica game I was in because it was resistant to burnout - the players traded off GMing for the same group by design. Get him a bit of time playing something light for a session or two before you go back to it.

Elixia
2013-03-05, 12:18 PM
that might be the answer :)

My partner is making a papercraft dungeon crawler, we could instead help him test that instead of playing dnd

Rhynn
2013-03-05, 12:55 PM
How can your GM already know the ending of a story you're supposed to be creating together through play?

Oh, scripting and railroading. Right.

This is why, even if you're a great writer, you shouldn't think RPGs are novels or short stories.

Talk to your GM. If he's unwilling to work with you, there's not much you can do. You're not obligated to stay and play in any way, if you think/know it's not going to be fun for you, or if it's already not fun for you.

Play a different game or campaign, with a different group, at least for a time.

Alejandro
2013-03-05, 01:14 PM
It sounds like your GM just wants you to act out the parts in his story. Which is lame.

Randomatic
2013-03-05, 02:00 PM
Roleplaying Games are a hobby, and are supposed to be fun.

If you aren't having fun, you don't have any obligation to play the game.

If you haven't already, I suggest you bring this up with the GM as directly as you can. Explain that you aren't having fun, and you don't want to continue the campaign. See if you can come to some sort of compromise, but if you can't, you don't have to continue spending your free time doing something that you don't want to.

NikitaDarkstar
2013-03-05, 02:51 PM
Guys, lets not bash the DM'ing style if it normally works for this group, since that's not the problem here.

The problem is that the DM seems to have misjudged a character, and to a point, the character. Now I don't suggest the DM retcons everything, but I would suggest talking to him about it. He said there is still a chance your characters family is alive, you countered with "there's no proof of that", the logical step would be for the DM to provide some in-game proof. Perhaps they're alive because the BBEG needs them for something/needs something from them. Perhaps not all are alive, but some are.

It might not be what he had planned, and it might be heavy-handed but the DM screwed up badly enough to utterly kill your interest in the game. Yes, you need to make that clear to him, and no it wouldn't be wrong to walk away from a game you're not enjoying, but you should at least have a straight, honest talk with the DM first so he gets a chance to fully understand your point of view and do something to fix it.

Rhynn
2013-03-05, 10:28 PM
Guys, lets not bash the DM'ing style if it normally works for this group, since that's not the problem here.

But the GMing style is the problem here. He's got a pre-ordained ending going that both he and a player seem to think can't be changed. And the OP didn't exactly imply high praise ("can be very cool from time to time", "I'm normally game for this kinda thing"), more toleration.

I wouldn't say this is an inevitable result, but I'd say it's not a surprising complication.

If a lot of us seem to be jumping on him for it, it's because we think making the players/PCs actors in your scripted story is antithetical to what RPGs are.

Jack of Spades
2013-03-05, 11:01 PM
Knowing the direction you're going to take the story is not railroading-- it's planning. A fine line between those two, but since the players are enjoying it (for the most part) we'd do well to assume that we're on the good side of the line here.

Voicing your concerns is always the best first option. Bring it up in private, where there is no chance of anyone ganging up on anyone, and avoid ultimatums or hasty declarations. Just tell him what you've told us.

The GM probably should, as you've suggested, give the character a reason to believe that her family is alive (for now). Possibly, on your end, you should allow your character to gradually become a harder person in such a way that revenge is a motivator. Your character is broken down. Which means she can rebuild herself. And what better for you to rebuild her as than something that neither you nor the GM expects? You know that your current character won't like the way the story ends. So let the character grow in such a way that she will be able to handle that. Then, you get to enjoy the moment in which the GM announces something that should have shattered your character, and you declare that your character is merely strengthened in her resolve.

That's just the way I'd go with it, though.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree that it was a mistake for the GM to foreshadow the ending in that way. I get the same way when I'm told how things are going to go-- to the point where if I plan on playing a video game I will leave the room if other people start talking about or playing through the story. Unfortunately, it seems like your GM is a compulsive foreshadower. It can be kind of difficult to deal with that. Maybe just try to find stuff other than the plot to talk about during down-time. Or, maybe he's trying to set up your expectations so that he can get a better response when he later defies them. GMs do that kind of crap all the time.

In the meanwhile, something light and fun and silly seems to be in order. Something like Paranoia or Fiasco or another palate-cleanser. Folks always need breaks, especially from the kind of dark, depressing stuff it seems like your GM is currently running.

Synovia
2013-03-06, 09:30 AM
Guys, lets not bash the DM'ing style if it normally works for this group, since that's not the problem here.

The DM'ing style is exactly the problem here. The player doesn't want to play the character anymore/finish the campaign because the DM let on that he's going to railroad the character into a bad ending. He's essentially taken away the illusion of agency from the player.

Jay R
2013-03-06, 09:50 AM
Elixia was told that she won't like the ending. From this, a lot of people have concluded that there's only one way to get there, and it's all railroaded.

I think that's an unproven conclusion.

For example, he could mean merely that the enemy is the main character's father. But there are lots of ways to get there, from King Laius to Darth Vader to Emperor Zurg to Tarquin. But saying that somebody is in a story that might play out like Oedipus Rex, or Star Wars, or Toy Story 2, or Order of the Stick, or A Boy Named Sue isn't a railroad. There are lots of different ways for that to happen.

[To avoid the red herrings:
1. Yes, the myth of Oedipus is a railroad. That's the point of his tragedy - it was foretold at his birth.
2. Yes, Tarquin and Emperor Zurg are both riffing off the character of Darth Vader. But my point is that the stories they are in are very different, and hence, to be in the same situation as Luke Skywalker is not a railroad.]

All it implies is that there is a plot point that will become clear when and if the party gets close to the BBEG, or the MacGuffin, that she probably won't like.

Elixia
2013-03-06, 10:06 AM
I've been reading and digesting the responses

the ending situation, er yeah. I DID confront on this and he said its flexible depends on our actions and we've dramatically changed from what he predicted numerous times. So the 'McGuffin' and plot elements are ... crap, i think i might of figured part of it out. Anyway. The problem with foreshadowing is i have a very overactive imagination, quickly turns a molehill to a mountain (and as a longtime friend he should know that!)

I've spoken to him about giving me a boost and hopefully he'll taken that on board. Also he wouldn't mind a break while we play some lighthearted dungeon crawlers (primarily my partners papercraft projects, he needs test subjects)

The advise on character building is priceless by the way, thank you for that :)

Synovia
2013-03-06, 10:14 AM
Elixia was told that she won't like the ending. From this, a lot of people have concluded that there's only one way to get there, and it's all railroaded.

I think that's an unproven conclusion.

We've also been told that the DM is a writer, and prefers his campaigns to be stories.

It doesn't really matter what the specific action is, its that the results are pretty much predetermined that bothers people. You're no longer a powerful, autonomous force, you're now an unwitting actor in a script.

Randomatic
2013-03-06, 02:02 PM
I've been reading and digesting the responses

the ending situation, er yeah. I DID confront on this and he said its flexible depends on our actions and we've dramatically changed from what he predicted numerous times. So the 'McGuffin' and plot elements are ... crap, i think i might of figured part of it out. Anyway. The problem with foreshadowing is i have a very overactive imagination, quickly turns a molehill to a mountain (and as a longtime friend he should know that!)

I've spoken to him about giving me a boost and hopefully he'll taken that on board. Also he wouldn't mind a break while we play some lighthearted dungeon crawlers (primarily my partners papercraft projects, he needs test subjects)

The advise on character building is priceless by the way, thank you for that :)

Looks like taking a break and some time to recharge is what your group needs.

Hopefully when you get back into the game you won't be as worried about things, and that your DM will have listened to your concerns, and be willing to help you out with them.

NikitaDarkstar
2013-03-06, 02:19 PM
Elixia was told that she won't like the ending. From this, a lot of people have concluded that there's only one way to get there, and it's all railroaded.

I think that's an unproven conclusion.

For example, he could mean merely that the enemy is the main character's father. But there are lots of ways to get there, from King Laius to Darth Vader to Emperor Zurg to Tarquin. But saying that somebody is in a story that might play out like Oedipus Rex, or Star Wars, or Toy Story 2, or Order of the Stick, or A Boy Named Sue isn't a railroad. There are lots of different ways for that to happen.

[To avoid the red herrings:
1. Yes, the myth of Oedipus is a railroad. That's the point of his tragedy - it was foretold at his birth.
2. Yes, Tarquin and Emperor Zurg are both riffing off the character of Darth Vader. But my point is that the stories they are in are very different, and hence, to be in the same situation as Luke Skywalker is not a railroad.]

All it implies is that there is a plot point that will become clear when and if the party gets close to the BBEG, or the MacGuffin, that she probably won't like.

This was exactly my point. I'm glad to see someone was actually able to expand on it more than I did. (Besides, people around here are so prone to blaming everything on "bad DM'ing style!!" all the time. It's a little depressing.)

Jerthanis
2013-03-06, 07:50 PM
So you say your character's spirit has been broken? I'm intrigued for one. It's pretty rare for a PC in an RPG to organically have their spirit broken. What happens next? Does she abandon her quest or stick to it out of habit or obligation? Does she feel guilt for not wishing revenge on the badguy, and worry about whether other people are judging her for not wanting that revenge?

This sounds like a pretty intriguing place to end the second act of a character arc...

So the DM has stated that you won't like how the story will end? Well, that sounds like an opportunity to change how the story ends. Whatever he expects your reaction to be, change that reaction. Kill someone he would expect you to spare or spare someone he expects you to murder. Offer to turn coat, then die in the process of double crossing the bad guy right back.

Basically, if he's got a script written for what happens, and he knows you won't like it... rewrite it to anything else, even if you also dislike the rewrite, you at least have a chance to like it.

Of course, he could have misspoken, implying dark and dismal fate where he meant great adversity meant to be overcome heroically. Just remember that character despondency doesn't necessarily mean player despondency, and that can actually make this scenario a lot of fun to play potentially.

Gamgee
2013-03-07, 12:13 AM
Sounds like Darkness Induced Audience Apathy. Lots of writers think that making things super grim dark is awesome, but forget to give us a reason to care. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarknessInducedAudienceApathy

Elixia
2013-03-07, 05:04 AM
oooooh more people here are addicted to tvtropes like me!! Yeah, he did go through too many round of break the cutie (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakTheCutie) and i dont think he releazed he'd crossed the despair event horizon. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DespairEventHorizon) But the responses here, and a little feedback from my fellow player/husband-to-be have given me some heart and a new direction for this character, with or without his ray of hope if he includes it or not. Gonna take a level in badass (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass). Basically i weighed up all the options/plots/mcguffins he use at this point and figured out a way to either counteract or navigate around them or strengthen her resolve. of course i'll keep to myself, let it be a surprise.

.... so sorry for all the tropes, that place is the devil! half a days work lost!

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-07, 05:20 AM
Hmm, where have I seen this situation before? Oh wait, now I remember! It is pretty much the story of Dragon Age II, except that game had an even worse story (your brother dies, your sister dies or is basically enslaved, the city you fought for is almost ruined, your mother is kidnapped and has her corpse multilated by this murderer that you fail to catch for half the game due to railroading, the high-priestess you actually respected as a decent person is murdered by your ally, the mutual tolerance between two organizations you've been working for ends up into a war of annihilation and so on and so forth.)


If this happens, do as I did with that game; stop playing.

GAThraawn
2013-03-07, 07:41 AM
Well, it sounds like this might have a positive ending yet. If your GM is a good one, he will accept your feedback on why you're not having fun and change the game accordingly. GMs aren't required to do everything their players want them to, but they do have a responsibility to sit up and pay attention when someone says they're not having fun any more, as that's the primary purpose of the game.
Never feel bad about expressing your own needs. It may be "selfish" (in as much as you are thinking about yourself), but a certain amount of "selfishness" is necessary and healthy to take care of yourself, just so long as you're not treading on other people's feet. Taking over a campaign so you and you alone can have fun is no good, but giving info to your GM and your fellow players about what you need to continue having a good time is just part of cooperative storytelling.

Hopefully the break gives everyone a chance to recover and have a change of pace.

Elixia
2013-03-07, 09:16 AM
well he just said its got a cool idea and a fellow player he asked for their opinion and they approved so i dont have to burgeon him to death with the DM manual now :)