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View Full Version : OOTS #375 - The Discussion Thread



The Giant
2006-11-13, 07:18 AM
New comic is up. Note that this is actually a very-late Sunday comic, there will be one more OOTS in this batch, which will be up tonight/early tomorrow morning.

Zaggab
2006-11-13, 07:23 AM
Does this mean that the high priest was durkon's grandfather? DUn DUN DUN! Edit: Of course not. I just need to learn how to read

Also, poor Durkon.

SumGuy
2006-11-13, 07:23 AM
I officially hate Miko now. I could understand her attitude, and I could forgive her delusions...

BUT HOW COULD SHE HAVE LEFT DURKON'S LETTER!!!!! GAAAHH!!!!

Ink
2006-11-13, 07:25 AM
Talk about vanity. She even stopped to change clothes. :miko: :wink:

drewnchick
2006-11-13, 07:26 AM
Wow...I've always felt Durkon was the unsung hero. Now, life just sucks for him!

Miko's zeal has blinded her once again.

And I'm beginning to think the CitD is more akin to Shrek...big, powerful, and misunderstood.

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-11-13, 07:28 AM
SHE LIVES! Yay!

That's incredibly sad for Durkon, though, but...I kind of feel like this would have been far more effective if we hadn't already had the reveal that he's going home posthumously. This adds another dimension, but we already knew that one way or another the letter wouldn't end in Durkon returning home.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 07:28 AM
Poor Durkon ;_;

TheWarBlade
2006-11-13, 07:30 AM
Alas the doom of all mail, to be eaten by wandering monsters and lost by thrown paladins. What a world.

The_Librarian
2006-11-13, 07:31 AM
Ouch, a papercut on the tongue! My worst fear when licking envelopes... CitD is fast becoming a favourite character of mine.

But I don't understand why Miko would even have that letter anyway.

SDF
2006-11-13, 07:35 AM
Well the oracle already told us about Durkon not returning alive, but this is like Greek sad.

SPoD
2006-11-13, 07:36 AM
But I don't understand why Miko would even have that letter anyway.

Because Shojo promised Durkon he would send a messenger with a letter up to the High Priest who would then wait for a reply. And according to Hinjo, Miko is the first choice for duties that require long trips away from Azure City (because no one likes her). We entered this scene with Miko returning from dwarven lands, having already gone to the High Priest, delivered the letter, waited for a reply, and ridden most of the way home.

Note that Miko didn't KNOW that the letter was for Durkon; Shojo, in his usual two-faced way, only told her it was an important diplomatic message.

(Did anyone else find it interesting that :mitd: was immune to Miko's sword, but then got a papercut?)

Ink
2006-11-13, 07:38 AM
But I don't understand why Miko would even have that letter anyway.

She was sent as a messenger by Shojo to the High Priest of Thor and was supposed to bring back the High Priest's reply.

CitD seems like a nice creature now but a rather poor employee.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 07:39 AM
It's because monsters that don't have tongue attacks usually don't have damge reduction there o.o'

Actis
2006-11-13, 07:40 AM
Alas, the tragedy!

Although we already knew Durkon would return to the dwarven lands after his death, the fact he would have been received earlier (i.e. alive) does hurt those who share that knowledge (right now, nobody, but meh).

Other than that, good comic, more plotorrific than laughable, yet good.

Korppis
2006-11-13, 07:40 AM
Poor Durkon ;_;

Oh well, he doesn't know (yet) that he is free to return, but...


Prophecy of his returning is one step closer to be complete...
High priest who sent him away is dead and it seems to me that he didn't leave any notes about the Reason why Durkon was sent away.

slb
2006-11-13, 07:40 AM
But I don't understand why Miko would even have that letter anyway.

Because she was ordered to bring Durkon's letter to the Dwarves, hence she carries back the answer.

Also note the surprising fact Miko had clothes and a lot of potion in her backpack but decided to rip her worn cloack to light on the Dwarven brandy.

Voxnovanion
2006-11-13, 07:42 AM
Nice comic! Anyone else notice the reference in the last line of the letter to dwarves having two livers? Guess that explains their high tolerance to poisons and dwarven ale and such :smallamused:

And the fact that MitD got a papercut even though he seemed immune to Miko's sword reminded me of an AD&D game long ago where we defeated a dragon by tricking him into swallowing a 'bag of holding' full of fighters. Turns out dragon insides don't have nearly as high an armorclass as the outside :smallbiggrin:

Jacob

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 07:45 AM
I officially hate Miko now. I could understand her attitude, and I could forgive her delusions...

BUT HOW COULD SHE HAVE LEFT DURKON'S LETTER!!!!! GAAAHH!!!!

Well, to be fair, she probably wasn't aware that she had dropped it.


On a related note, now we know how the MitD can be defeated: feed it a lot of paper, and give it a lot of papercuts.

Also, its corporeal.

Om
2006-11-13, 07:46 AM
Alas the doom of all mail, to be eaten by wandering monsters and lost by thrown paladins. What a world.Come rain, hail or paladins... :smallbiggrin:

Grunjon
2006-11-13, 07:46 AM
DUDE! No fair for Durkon! Well, I know he wouldn't return there alive, but STILL...it sucks that it would be okay to return, but he'll never know it. :(


"Apparently littering isn't against the Paladin code" ROFL! Go demon c°ckroaches!

Squall83
2006-11-13, 07:47 AM
Great comic! ^^

Now I feel much better on this rainy day.

But I do feel sorry for Durkon. I'd never have thought that Miko would be the one to deliver the letters.

WarriorTribble
2006-11-13, 07:47 AM
So, the monster can't read or is it just really hungry?

Silverblaze
2006-11-13, 07:48 AM
Hmmm... What is the price of failure for a Paladin on a mission from her Lord ? *GG*

Haarculaneaum
2006-11-13, 07:51 AM
"like Greek sad" = brilliant.

Great, great comic. Poor Durkon and poor :mitd:

Is not littering evil?
A little evil?

It will be interesting to see the timing of the entire event.
Huzzah for 1 more comic!

Haar

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 07:53 AM
Given that, in trade for failing in a mission she'll help saving Azure City, a medal.

DeathQuaker
2006-11-13, 07:54 AM
I can't believe I re-registered to correct a grammatical error, but... well, I just did.


Recent events have lead me to believe...

should be


Recent events have led me to believe...

"Lead" pronounced that way is a kind of metal; "led" is the past tense of the verb "lead."

Please pay no attention to the anal retentive copy editor, or please keep her quiet with chocolate chip cookies.

I've been enjoying the Miko storyline. Lots of questions arising... I am interested to see where the character goes, and also how it affects the OOTS and Azure City. And she'll feel awful for losing the package... Miko misses the finer points of social interaction, but duty's bread and butter for her. I wonder how she will serve her penance for failing in her mission? Lives are at stake, which means others may forgive her, but in this (perhaps only this ;)) she'll probably be hard on herself. At least that's the way I see the character.

I feel sorry for Durkon, but I don't at the same time. Remember why he was exiled--if he found out, he'd feel awful, but he'd feel all the more awful if he returned home... erm, pre-humously... and fulfilled the late high priests' worst fears. Now, on one hand, those fears may still come to reality. On the other, the MITD may have just saved the dwarves.

faerwain
2006-11-13, 07:56 AM
Okay..it was obviously more to drive the story than laughing out loud. For some crazy reason the comment of windstriker's need for an diet made me giggle because it reminded me of Salvatores Crystal Shard (besides Dragonlance my starter into fantasy) and the description of Guenhwyvar hunting the ghost of a deer at the astral plane. Don't know, easy to amuse...:elan:


But MitD with the pink umbrella and carrying a handbag was a creepy image...*shudder*

Lerch
2006-11-13, 07:56 AM
Miko must have dropped her "purse" when she got out the dwarven brady to escape from the 5 sided forcecage :smallbiggrin:.

That does kinda make Durkon's situation (even though he doesn't know it) kinda tragic. Way to pull on the heart-strings Giant.:smallfrown:

Nice comic!

Solmage
2006-11-13, 07:58 AM
I officially hate Miko now. I could understand her attitude, and I could forgive her delusions...

BUT HOW COULD SHE HAVE LEFT DURKON'S LETTER!!!!! GAAAHH!!!!

Yes, how could she forget a letter when she's running for her life and the lives of all her friends, colleagues, innocents, and really the entire world.


On the other hand, now I hate the CitD :smallmad:

Malekith
2006-11-13, 07:59 AM
Whyd Citd just eat the letter? i wouldve eaten the whole purse :mitd: i mean honestly, if youre hungry you dont OPEN it and eat whats inside, you eat the whole thing...:tongue:

Wren
2006-11-13, 08:02 AM
Poor dorfy.

Heloisa
2006-11-13, 08:04 AM
Nice one Giant.

Poor Durkon! :smallsigh:

Ok, enough Miko for me... can we get back to Elan now? Please?

Silverblaze
2006-11-13, 08:04 AM
Given that, in trade for failing in a mission she'll help saving Azure City, a medal.

You fail to see my point Snake-Aes... In the world of Miko there is not "but I..." - that would not be black and white. She failed her mission - the whys and buts have no matter - If they were to have so, then she would surely be pressed in many of her views of TOotS *G*

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 08:04 AM
Yes, how could she forget a letter when she's running for her life and the lives of all her friends, colleagues, innocents, and really the entire world.


On the other hand, now I hate the CitD :smallmad:

Don't be too harsh; he probably doesn't even know how to read it so he wouldn't know its significance.

Plus, he's hungry.



:miko: : "Recent events have led me to beleive that you might want to cut back on your consumption of Heavenly Oats™ brand horse feed"

:roach: : "Apparently, littering isn't against the paladin code".

:smallbiggrin:

Miklus
2006-11-13, 08:09 AM
I am begining to think :mitd: is not evil at all...? It's certanly polite.

And I just can't bring myself to hate Miko. I think she deserve a medal from Sjoho. And the gratetude from all of Azure City.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 08:15 AM
I see your point. Miko would be alone in her self punishment, though. I do think everyone else in Azure City that matters will not punish her, or will, at the very least, punish her by sending her again or whatever like that.

Miko would perform the Sepukku, tho...

vanyell
2006-11-13, 08:22 AM
harsh...

there are no other words

Alfryd
2006-11-13, 08:29 AM
New comic is up. Note that this is actually a very-late Sunday comic, there will be one more OOTS in this batch, which will be up tonight/early tomorrow morning.
Very Good.

Ok, enough Miko for me... can we get back to Elan now? Please?
I must admit I am pleased at the length of this series.


Yes, how could she forget a letter when she's running for her life and the lives of all her friends, colleagues, innocents, and really the entire world.
Agreed. I think it just got smacked off her, though the Purse wasn't visible since the first comic in this interlude...

On the other hand, now I hate the CitD.

I am begining to think is not evil at all...? It's certanly polite.
Oh, come now. He was friendly, playful, and went out of his way to return a dropped handbag. That's almost Cardinal G behaviour.
I am definitely starting to find the MitD's alignment highly suspect.

"While I would love to return to battle that creature..."

What is WRONG with her?


Turns out dragon insides don't have nearly as high an armorclass as the outside...
Okay, but what's your save DC versus intestinal acid and asphyxiation?

Moechi_Vill
2006-11-13, 08:33 AM
The CitD also smacked her straight through a wall. But it/zer was probably just obeying Xykon to the letter. I don't think the CitD is good, it's most likely some mixed up form, resulting in neutral. In real life where morality isn't condensed some call it personality and the duality of being.

Go Miko!

Anyone notice how well Miko gets on with code, law and honor and how she was on a cordial tangent with Durkon? Prolly why she was sent to the dwarven lands. She must really have enjoyed herself there! :)

I'm pleased at the length of it too, but I think the next comic might change scenes (I haven't read to the end of the comic yet).

But anyho, there is nothing wrong with Miko, if but that she is slightly suicidal in wishing to battle with the CitD, she has no reason to believe it is not a loyal servant of Xykon.

PePe QuiCoSE
2006-11-13, 08:34 AM
more comics =)

about miko failing her mission, the purse fell when she was hit "lightly" by Mitd so she doesn't know it fell, not like she drop it while preparing for the journey to azure city.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 08:37 AM
Don't forget to add bludgeoning damage, Alfryd, the muscles there are pretty hard and they don't stop.

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 08:39 AM
Oh, come now. He was friendly, playful, and went out of his way to return a dropped handbag. That's almost Cardinal G behaviour.
I am definitely starting to find the MitD's alignment highly suspect.

It's just one of a number of things that are beginning to add up in that regard. I doubt that it is evil at all.


"While I would love to return to battle that creature..."

What is WRONG with her?

She is hotheaded, stubborn, overconfident and hasn't read the comic, so she wouldn't know as much about the Monster as we do. All she knows is that it was in her way when Azure City was in danger. And she couldn't know about the handbag thing either.

Adder
2006-11-13, 08:39 AM
Poor poor Durkon. I really don't blame Miko or the CitD; she felt responsible for the whole population of Azure City - rightfully so - and the CitD certainly acted without malice.
But for this High Priest, or whoever is in charge in the dwarven lands, to simply forget about Durkon - that makes me really despise them.

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 08:44 AM
The most the MitD said was that letting her go would be awkward, and then she got teed off the range. She must have some kind of Deathwish.

She may well have a deathwish, but note that she was teed off because it said that her request to let her pass was akward because Xykon said such and such. That was after she told it that millions of lives were at stake (specifically because she needed to warn Azure city about Xykon).


Poor poor Durkon. I really don't blame Miko or the CitD; she felt responsible for the whole population of Azure City - rightfully so - and the CitD certainly acted without malice.
But for this High Priest, or whoever is in charge in the dwarven lands, to simply forget about Durkon - that makes me really despise them.

Indeed, it seems a bit negligent to simply forget about one of your people that has been exiled. And a high ranking cleric, no less. Pity the poor commoners that get into that situation.

Alfryd
2006-11-13, 08:44 AM
But anyho, there is nothing wrong with Miko, if but that she is slightly suicidal in wishing to battle with the CitD, she has no reason to believe it is not a loyal servant of Xykon.
The most the MitD said was that letting her go would be awkward, and then she got teed off the range. She must have some kind of Deathwish.

I also note that Miko has deliberately been mildly amusing lately. Gawsh.

Kaerou
2006-11-13, 08:46 AM
Awww, poor Durkon. This comic made me giggle at first and ten feel all conflicted and sad at the end.. =( He just wants to go home.

Alfryd
2006-11-13, 08:46 AM
Uh-oh. Simu-revision. Strike that. Reverse it.


...after she told it that millions of lives were at stake (specifically because she needed to warn Azure city about Xykon).
It still strikes me as a tad hasty. Creatures of unalloyed malevolence don't open with 'This is kind of awkward...' when explaining how they can't let you past.

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 08:50 AM
Uh-oh. Simu-revision. Strike that. Reverse it.


It still strikes me as a tad hasty. Creatures of unalloyed malevolence don't open with 'This is kind of awkward...' when explaining how they can't let you past.

Oh, she is absolutely hasty. I doubt anyone would argue otherwise. :smallwink:

Of course, she has already gotten the idea that other nice seeming people (the OOTS) are working for Xykon, so perhaps she is simply become less trusting of people's appearances - if she was that to begin with. Ironically enough that misaprehension is also due to her being too hasty. :smallwink:

The Doctor
2006-11-13, 08:54 AM
(Did anyone else find it interesting that :mitd: was immune to Miko's sword, but then got a papercut?)

Papercuts ignore all DR. Luckily, not many adventurers know that.

I have to remember the rule for littering not being part of the paladin code...
It appears that 'the Great Greaser' is paladin material after all!

The Doctor
2006-11-13, 08:58 AM
I am begining to think :mitd: is not evil at all...? It's certanly polite.

:mird: is just Chaotic Stupid, which is like Chaotic Evil but without the brains.


And I just can't bring myself to hate Miko. I think she deserve a medal from Sjoho. And the gratetude from all of Azure City.

And a honorable diplomatic position far, far, VERY FAR away.

Eldhrin
2006-11-13, 09:08 AM
I love the :mitd:. He's so cute!!

Noneoyabizzness
2006-11-13, 09:23 AM
wow

that is just so sad.

but sadness and duty is what a dwarf's life is all about

and I was hoping she woulda tried to smite citd to find out he is neutral

DBoot
2006-11-13, 09:24 AM
'I only wish your letter had reached me before the unfortunate death of your grandfather last year. Both of his livers failed as... ...whisk(ey?)'

The secret to the rise of the Dwarven people is now ours, and a glimpse into their fall is at hand!

Kesnit
2006-11-13, 09:38 AM
From reading that letter, maybe Durkon won't have to die before he can go home. The Oracle said he would go home "posthumously ," but didn't say WHOSE death. We all assumed Durkon, but what The Oracle meant the High Priest?

Drascin
2006-11-13, 09:38 AM
DAMMIT, :mitd:! (said with the same expression Roy uses to say "DAMMIT, ELAN!" :P)

Ok, now that that is out of my system...

Dwarves have two livers?! Wow. Now I understand how they manage to keep traditions like that one of drinking one pint of ale per number when anybody counts ;). I know a few peeps who would kill to have two functional livers ^^.

BardicLasher
2006-11-13, 09:39 AM
As much as I'm sad for :durkon: ... I don't think he'd go home even if he got the letter. Even if he recieved the letter, I think he'd still stay with Roy until they defeated Xykon.

Oh, and for the record, Miko didn't FORGET the letter. The letter, like the sword [I presume], was dropped when she was sent flying through the WALL.

Deuce
2006-11-13, 09:41 AM
Must be pub food . . .:smalltongue:

Harliquinn
2006-11-13, 09:42 AM
Spoiler opinion on the MiTD


I believe that the MiTD is actually a good or neutral creature that Xykon has somehow bound to his service. I think also Miko knows what it is, since she is talking to it in a civil manner. Only after it mentions that it works for Xykon does she attack and even then seems rather reluctant to fight it calling it "a great loss of life." She hasn't been hesitant about killing anything else that she thought was evil.

Trobby
2006-11-13, 09:42 AM
Hehehe...chubby horse...^^;

Even if Miko were to believe that the mitd acted underhandedly and did not, in fact, pull it's punches, she'd be foolish to try and take it on without some backup at the least. Frankly, the only rational reason I can think for her to want to fight again is because it is a direct threat to the Azure Gate, and as a Paladin of Azure city, it is her sworn duty to protect that gate.

Also, it is my opinion that Int is probably Miko's dump stat.

Now don't all you Durkon lovers get weepy just yet...the Oracle told him that he'd be returning to his Dwarven homelands "Posthumously", but he never said "after his death". As sad as it is, this could be his trigger to return home. (Durkon probably loves his Grampappy, and would want to attend his dwarven funeral.)

Solara
2006-11-13, 09:46 AM
I guessed what this would be about once I saw the title...reading the letter was still a shock, though. Poor Durkon! :eek:

The Heavenly Oats line made me LOL, though. Is it just me or has Miko been making more jokes lately? Not nearly as many as the other chars, but still pretty funny, considering the class feature she's (ahem) stuck with.

The roaches were also hilarious, as usual, especially combined with the MitD trying to work himself up to opening someone else's purse. Evil? I have serious doubts.



But for this High Priest, or whoever is in charge in the dwarven lands, to simply forget about Durkon - that makes me really despise them.

Oh, I'm sure Durkon was left 'off the record' on purpose.

Adlan
2006-11-13, 09:48 AM
It seems to me that the Old High priest made a really bad descision in sending Durkon away. Durkon never had any desire to leave. So why not simply make him the guard of somthing deep in the heart of the dwarven kingdom? Away from everyone and everything outside of the relm.

Once durkon left, the possibility of him returning becomes real.

Mayhap Durkon's posthumous return will cause the terrible event, even dead, it's return.

Solara
2006-11-13, 09:50 AM
Spoiler opinion on the MiTD


I believe that the MiTD is actually a good or neutral creature that Xykon has somehow bound to his service. I think also Miko knows what it is, since she is talking to it in a civil manner. Only after it mentions that it works for Xykon does she attack and even then seems rather reluctant to fight it calling it "a great loss of life." She hasn't been hesitant about killing anything else that she thought was evil.


Uh, by 'great loss of life' I'm pretty sure she was talking about Azure City. And while she might have spoken to him halfway civilly at first when she was unsure of his alignment, I'm pretty sure she thinks he's evil now. (Especially given that she wishes she could go back and fight him, even when it's no longer necessary.)

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 09:50 AM
On the above spoilers:

Durkon: How will I finally be returnin' to me beloved dwarven homelands?
Oracle: Posthumously.

How will I be returning? Posthumously.

It would be a bit of a stretch to interpret it as anything other than his own death, even though oracles are notorious for wording their prophecies misleadingly. Much as I would like to see the poor guy come home.


Uh, by 'great loss of life' I'm pretty sure she was talking about Azure City. And while she might have spoken to him halfway civilly at first when she was unsure of his alignment, I'm pretty sure she thinks he's evil now. (Especially given that she wishes she could go back and fight him, even when it's no longer necessary.)

Verily. She has concluded that it is evil because it sought to hinder her (albeit reluctantly) even after she had explained the importance of her mission and because she now knows it works for Xykon.

Faramir
2006-11-13, 09:51 AM
re no note being found in Hurak's journals, given how organized the dwarves are it's probably filed in the appropriate place - in the temple of Odin, not Thor.

And I found Miko's comment to Windstriker hilarious given that it was delivered in a very Miko idiom, "Recent events have led me to believe...". Even judgementalism can be humorous if presented correctly :).

Loved the revelation that dwarves have two livers.

Daedrous Avari
2006-11-13, 09:54 AM
Poor MITD, he's a nice man in a monster's suit.

SteveMB
2006-11-13, 09:58 AM
But for this High Priest, or whoever is in charge in the dwarven lands, to simply forget about Durkon - that makes me really despise them.
Well, his own teammates forgot about him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0072.html) -- it just seems to be his lot in life.... :smallfrown:

The_Librarian
2006-11-13, 10:04 AM
Because she was ordered to bring Durkon's letter to the Dwarves, hence she carries back the answer.

Also note the surprising fact Miko had clothes and a lot of potion in her backpack but decided to rip her worn cloack to light on the Dwarven brandy.

Gah... I should have remembered that. Thanks for pointing that out!

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 10:05 AM
Wow! I didn't expect a comic this morning!

This is a very good one and I can't wait for the next one which I assume will finish up this part of the story and move on to the next.

You know, I think that it is probably a very good thing that Miko was unable to deliver Durkon's letter. As tragic as it is for Durkon not being able to return home, the alternative is worse. For the dwarves, anyway.

Now, not receiving a reply, he may try to return home at some point anyway but not as quickly as if he had received the message.

And while I understand why the former high priest didn't not leave any record of his prophecy regarding Durkon, it seems as if that was a bad move on his part.

charik
2006-11-13, 10:06 AM
I like it. I think Durkon would be conflicted over the letter, were he to recieve it, given that he's already gotten the Oracle's answer.

And I propose True Neutral for :mitd: : it understood that opening someone else's purse was wrong and only did so because it was terribly hungry, and also it tried to return it to its rightful owner. Heck, it might even be Lawful Neutral.

chibibar
2006-11-13, 10:09 AM
oh man... you know something? Durkon is probably one of the nicest and selfless (because of his duty) and yet he get the most flack :(

I hope he gets to return to his homeland... I'm betting the "doom" would be Xykon coming right after him or something has to do with the gates. (one of the gates is in the moutains filled with monster)

KeiranHalcyon
2006-11-13, 10:11 AM
Talk about vanity. She even stopped to change clothes. :miko: :wink:

It's not like she had anything better to do why Windstriker was downing the healing potions. The real question of vanity though comes from her carrying a spare cloak. Though I do suppose that on a journey of that length it's probably justified.


(Did anyone else find it interesting that :mitd: was immune to Miko's sword, but then got a papercut?)

It was a Dwarven Letter +5. :tongue:


"Lead" pronounced that way is a kind of metal; "led" is the past tense of the verb "lead."

Maybe it was additional commentary on the apparent composition of Windstriker's rear after eating so much horse feed?


Miko would perform the Sepukku, tho...

No, Miko'd just go back to the dwarven lands to get another copy, once everything's settled down.

The two livers bit was the funniest moment of the strip for me. So, now we know the Dwarves' schtick about alcohol... next we need to know if the elves of OOTSland can keep up as well as Legolas did.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 10:12 AM
"Oh honey, the Evil priestess didn't sacrifice any innocent kids of Waterdeep to make lipstick because it's too expensive, is she turning neutral good?"

Seriously, ONE frame is enough to tell that :mitd: is LN? -.-'
now that's going a bit too far

Ronald_saveloy
2006-11-13, 10:15 AM
Come rain, hail or paladins... :smallbiggrin:

Now that's a good one-liner!

The Glitter Ninja
2006-11-13, 10:15 AM
The horse fiber joke was good. I really like Windstryker.

Aw, poor Durkon :(

Solara
2006-11-13, 10:19 AM
I guess I forgot to mention the part about the two livers. Pure genius, and it would explain a lot. It's just too bad the rest of the letter was so sad. :(

(BTW, any chance we get get a sad-faced smiley?)

Oh, and almosts forgot:

ZOMG Miko called her loyal companion fat! And this after her stupidity just got him knocked through a wall and seriously injured! What a b****! She should Fall for that!!!!11one1!!

(I'm really surprised I'm the first one to bring that up... :amused:)

Spiky
2006-11-13, 10:20 AM
Seriously, ONE frame is enough to tell that :mitd: is LN? -.-'
now that's going a bit too far

No, the facts that he has almost zero actions of any sort (through over 300 comics since his intro) and most of his comments are completely un-evil are casting questions on his assumed Evil alignment.

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 10:21 AM
Solara, you are incorrigible you know? :wink:

Anyway we all saw that she has already fallen--like a ton of bricks!

Atheist_Cleric
2006-11-13, 10:21 AM
Man, that really sucks for Durkon...worst part is he'll never know, Miko wont have read the reply, neither will the MITD. So the only copy is gone, and only the writer knows what was in it. To top it all off, Durkon's original superior is dead, his grandfather is dead, and he'll probably never know because he wont return to his homelands until HE is dead. He just cant get a break...and after that great performance in Cliffport against Leeky too.

Solara
2006-11-13, 10:29 AM
"Oh honey, the Evil priestess didn't sacrifice any innocent kids of Waterdeep to make lipstick because it's too expensive, is she turning neutral good?"

Seriously, ONE frame is enough to tell that :mitd: is LN? -.-'
now that's going a bit too far

Oh, come on, seriously. First off, it was more like five, and that was in this comic alone.

It's one thing to be convinced Miko is good, but what is it with this trend I see of Miko-fans running down all the characters she doesn't like in order to 'defend' her, like that proves something? Roy is Neutral and a bad leader and a jerk, the MitD is obviously eeeevil despite commiting maybe one questionable act in the entire comic (wanting to join the fight when the OotS were attacking the place), and of course completely ignoring all the good/neutral things he's said and done.

It's like you guys are running a campaign for a politician or something.

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 10:31 AM
I'm not running down any characters--

My favorites, in no particular order, are Roy, Redcloak, MitD, and Miko.

Caractacus
2006-11-13, 10:31 AM
IOh, and almosts forgot:

ZOMG Miko called her loyal companion fat! And this after her stupidity just got him knocked through a wall and seriously injured! What a b****! She should Fall for that!!!!11one1!!

(I'm really surprised I'm the first one to bring that up... :amused:)

Well, her stupidity wasn't involved for once. You must have noticed that the supposedly friendly MitD that everyone wants to love (yes, me too) actually attacked Windstriker?

I don't think the horse can realistically be considered to have been playing the game.

karen451
2006-11-13, 10:31 AM
I propose True Neutral for :mitd: : it understood that opening someone else's purse was wrong and only did so because it was terribly hungry

Or maybe the demon roaches have Suggestion?

Solara
2006-11-13, 10:31 AM
Solara, you are incorrigible you know? :wink:


Oh, I can't take all the credit. I mean, I never would have thought of calling her vain for changing her cloak.

And about the horse again, dear God, just look at her yelling at him there in the fourth panel, when the poor horse is obviously already going as fast as it can. Is she trying to make him rupture a blood vessel or something? She's so mean! Somebody get PETA on the line.

Caractacus
2006-11-13, 10:34 AM
Oh, I can't take all the credit. I mean, I never would have thought of calling her vain for changing her cloak.

And about the horse again, dear God, just look at her yelling at him there in the fourth panel, when the poor horse is obviously already going as fast as it can. Is she trying to make him rupture a blood vessel or something? She's so mean! Somebody get PETA on the line.

That's the truth! Windstriker probably volunteered to be hit through the wall to follow her mistress and THIS is the thanks s/he gets?

Solara
2006-11-13, 10:35 AM
I'm not running down any characters--

My favorites, in no particular order, are Roy, Redcloak, MitD, and Miko.

Oh I know. I'm not talking about anyone in particular, like I said it's just a trend I noticed. Like whenever Miko's in conflict with Roy, there's suddenly all these people slamming him (I've even seen somebody say they wished Miko would kill the entire OotS...now these are the protagonists we're talking about.

And now that she's attacked the MitD, it's not even enough that she thinks he's evil, it'll like a few people actually want him to literally be that alignment in order to justify her.

Axorcist
2006-11-13, 10:38 AM
Poor Durkon! He hasn't had anything good happen to him since the enormous gold tankard of beer. He needs another sudden and decisive victory soon.

Solara
2006-11-13, 10:38 AM
That's the truth! Windstriker probably volunteered to be hit through the wall to follow her mistress and THIS is the thanks s/he gets?

You're so right! And the very fact that she's forcing him to carry her around like some kind of slave in the first place just disgusts me. What's that horse's intelligence again? He has rights, dammit!

Varian7
2006-11-13, 11:03 AM
Arrgghh! Poor Durkon! To quote "The Princess Bride", "Life is not fair".

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 11:09 AM
Oh, come on, seriously. First off, it was more like five, and that was in this comic alone.

It's one thing to be convinced Miko is good, but what is it with this trend I see of Miko-fans running down all the characters she doesn't like in order to 'defend' her, like that proves something? Roy is Neutral and a bad leader and a jerk, the MitD is obviously eeeevil despite commiting maybe one questionable act in the entire comic (wanting to join the fight when the OotS were attacking the place), and of course completely ignoring all the good/neutral things he's said and done.

It's like you guys are running a campaign for a politician or something.

hhum, hello? Xykon forbid him to leave the shadows? :mitd: reminds me of an evil being with Elan's brain.
Meh, whatever, my grudge here is on this specific alignment question, no matter on what you say.
And :mitd: wasn't against sacrificing minions, is that questionable?

ozmar
2006-11-13, 11:22 AM
OMG Miko called her loyal companion fat! And this after her stupidity just got him knocked through a wall and seriously injured! What a b****! She should Fall for that!!!!11one1!!


Dude! Windstriker landed on her FACE! "Recent events have led me to believe..." :miko: is hillarious! :)

I also like Windstriker. What a loyal companion. Can we get an icon for him?

-Ozmar the :miko:-fan.

Pilum
2006-11-13, 11:22 AM
But MitD with the pink umbrella and carrying a handbag was a creepy image...*shudder*

Creepy indeed... :mitd: has clearly been revealed as.....
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9712/24/teletubbies/tinky.winky.jpg

Must go, Nurse says it's time for my tablets again! :smallwink:

Logic
2006-11-13, 11:24 AM
Whyd Citd just eat the letter? i wouldve eaten the whole purse :mitd: i mean honestly, if youre hungry you dont OPEN it and eat whats inside, you eat the whole thing...:tongue:

He thought there might be food inside, remember? As soon as he opened the purse he took out the contents (a mere letter), and dropped the purse.
Besides, who knows what kind of crazy unedible material it is made out of.

Sir_Ophiuchus
2006-11-13, 11:27 AM
Just looked up "posthumous":

Adjective

posthumous

1. Taking place after one's death.
* Although obscure in life, she received numerous posthumous awards.
2. In reference to a work, published after the author's death.
3. Born after the death of one's father."

From my reading of this, "posthumous" means only after one's OWN death in almost all cases. Nothing says Durkon can't be killed, resurrected and THEN go home, though.

dcviana
2006-11-13, 11:33 AM
hhum, hello? Xykon forbid him to leave the shadows? :mitd: reminds me of an evil being with Elan's brain.
Meh, whatever, my grudge here is on this specific alignment question, no matter on what you say.
And :mitd: wasn't against sacrificing minions, is that questionable?

He was not against it, but he also didn't agree with it, he simply didn't care. Maybe it is not a good thing, but it certainly is not evil, he could be neutral about it.

He probably is bound to Xykon in some way, so he couldn't be against it even if he wanted to. Besides, if he didn't even saw the gate (What gate?), how can he see Xykon throw minions at the gate?

Ahh, and about your question "Xykon forbid him to leave the shadows?", yes he did here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0117.html), among other strips.

Aerysil
2006-11-13, 11:34 AM
snif.

snif snif. (Had to be 10 characters?)

Aiani
2006-11-13, 11:39 AM
Miko gave me a good laugh in that first panel, Heavenly Oats brand horse food, very nice. MitD is funny as always especially his crazy line of reasoning to get into Miko's purse. Poor Durkon though. :frown:

Harr
2006-11-13, 11:44 AM
Wonder if Miko will go Sepukku when she realizes she's failed her mission. Doesn't seem the type to take that sort of thing lightly.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 11:48 AM
He was not against it, but he also didn't agree with it, he simply didn't care. Maybe it is not a good thing, but it certainly is not evil, he could be neutral about it.

He probably is bound to Xykon in some way, so he couldn't be against it even if he wanted to. Besides, if he didn't even saw the gate (What gate?), how can he see Xykon throw minions at the gate?

Ahh, and about your question "Xykon forbid him to leave the shadows?", yes he did here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0117.html), among other strips.

You really need to turn your sarcasm detector on, for my sayings AND :mitd:'s...

Tussy the Druid
2006-11-13, 11:59 AM
Whyd Citd just eat the letter? i wouldve eaten the whole purse :mitd: i mean honestly, if youre hungry you dont OPEN it and eat whats inside, you eat the whole thing...:tongue:

I'm pretty sure he opened it because of the pressure. And he was hungry. Plus it gave us the chance to see what the letter read.

Starla
2006-11-13, 12:06 PM
DAMMIT, :mitd:! (said with the same expression Roy uses to say "DAMMIT, ELAN!" :P)

Ok, now that that is out of my system...

Dwarves have two livers?! Wow. Now I understand how they manage to keep traditions like that one of drinking one pint of ale per number when anybody counts ;). I know a few peeps who would kill to have two functional livers ^^.

But if they killed the person wouldn't their liver be non-funtional then? J/K

It is amazing how much depth you put into analyzing each of the characters of this comic. If Dr Englund could see what discussions I participate in now. Not Tolstoy, not Steinbeck, but Order of the Stick...:vaarsuvius: She would probably like V the best anyway (she liked to use Calvin and Hobbes a lot too).

I have to say that I like Miko for her perversness. I like all the characters. I am so impressed with Miko because of her confidence in her abilities. I don't feel like I play DnD that well because I don't have the motivation to sit for hours and read all the rules and study every aspect of the game. When Xykon left her alone in that cage I was thinking "How in the heck does she expect to escape? I don't think I could escape so easily"

By the way about the killing the dragon from the inside...How did you get out of the bag of holding?

The Hammer of Thor
2006-11-13, 12:28 PM
MitD is so innocent for a killing machine with incredible strength.
Durkon has got a big surprise for him

Helgraf
2006-11-13, 12:40 PM
Because Shojo promised Durkon he would send a messenger with a letter up to the High Priest who would then wait for a reply. And according to Hinjo, Miko is the first choice for duties that require long trips away from Azure City (because no one likes her). We entered this scene with Miko returning from dwarven lands, having already gone to the High Priest, delivered the letter, waited for a reply, and ridden most of the way home.

Note that Miko didn't KNOW that the letter was for Durkon; Shojo, in his usual two-faced way, only told her it was an important diplomatic message.

(Did anyone else find it interesting that :mitd: was immune to Miko's sword, but then got a papercut?)

Superficial injury (no actual in-game effect). I imagine for a lot of creatures DR doesn't keep the sword from cutting, but essentially keeps it from cutting anything important enough to qualify as damage in the ephemeral D&D sense.

So you couldn't kill a DR creature with papercuts, but it could still get them.

grinner666
2006-11-13, 12:50 PM
Arrgghh! Poor Durkon! To quote "The Princess Bride", "Life is not fair".


Come on, kids! Durkon was thrilled to hear he was going home "posthumously." Frankly I think he likes the human lands a little too much to ever be happy in the dwarven lands ...

:amused:

armatil
2006-11-13, 12:57 PM
in my mind, the demon roach said "HA-ha!" like Nelson from The Simpsons.

Great comic.

dcviana
2006-11-13, 01:11 PM
You really need to turn your sarcasm detector on, for my sayings AND :mitd:'s...

My bad then, tought you were being serious. English not being my first language dosn't help here.

mikeejimbo
2006-11-13, 01:11 PM
Poor Durkon!

Yeah, that's all I have to say.

the_tick_rules
2006-11-13, 01:21 PM
Poor Durkon, why must he be slighted so? His life dreams crushed by a mentally-challenged monster. Did anyone read the letter's bottom is said both (i presume of) his livers failed. So dwarves have 2 livers in OOTS, might explain their drinking. and since when did roaches get so enviromentally friendly lol.

foolsama
2006-11-13, 01:28 PM
Anyone have the # of the comic where it's explained why Durkon got kicked out? I remember only that he was un-aware that he was, in fact, exiled, and not 'sent on a mission' (much like Miko).

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 01:34 PM
Anyone have the # of the comic where it's explained why Durkon got kicked out? I remember only that he was un-aware that he was, in fact, exiled, and not 'sent on a mission' (much like Miko).No. It was explained in On the Origen of PCs. It was not explained in the main comic.

Nerd_Paladin
2006-11-13, 01:36 PM
Oh my god, how could Miko leave behind the letter! It was her sworn duty to deliver it! This is CLEARLY in violation of her alignment and the 12 Gods need to strip her of ALL her Paladin powers IMMEDIATELY! Also, this should be enough to change her from Lawful to Chaotic, and the fat joke about her horse was UNUSUALLY cruel, thus justifying another alignment change from Good to Evil. Now let's an just hope she gets crushed by a Tarrasque on the way home. [/Irrational Miko Hatred]

Maratanos
2006-11-13, 01:38 PM
Poor Durkon!

Yeah, that's all I have to say.

Actually, the situation for Durkon may be better than you think...

The question Durkon asked the Oracle was:


How will I finally be returnin' to me beloved dwarven homelands?

This seems like a stretch of the language, but maybe he will be returning several times, and the Oracle only mentioned the final time? Worth a thought, in my opinion...

Blackeagle
2006-11-13, 01:43 PM
Also, its corporeal.

Not necessarily. It could be Ghost Touch paper. :smalltongue:

Kanashimi
2006-11-13, 01:45 PM
wow.

That makes me sad.

Like, sadder than when Durkon broke up with Hilgya.

Stupid irresponsible Paladin!

foolsama
2006-11-13, 01:46 PM
No. It was explained in On the Origen of PCs. It was not explained in the main comic.

But I've never read that book, and I know I've seen durkon flying out a cave's entrance, 'helped' by some dwarven boots... maybe it was in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools....

the_tick_rules
2006-11-13, 01:52 PM
well it was vaguely shown in the strip when Durkon has just heard of his favor Roy got him from Shojo to write him a letter. there was a one panel flashback with durkon being thrown out of the door by dwarves. why, buy the origin of pc book, nice marketing strategy to get us after it by the way hehe.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 01:55 PM
well it was vaguely shown in the strip when Durkon has just heard of his favor Roy got him from Shojo to write him a letter. there was a one panel flashback with durkon being thrown out of the door by dwarves. why, buy the origin of pc book, nice marketing strategy to get us after it by the way heh.In that case it would be #305. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html)

fangthane
2006-11-13, 01:58 PM
Maratanos - I've had similar notions but given the nature of the prophecy and the crushing effect it'd have on Durkon to realise what effects his return had caused, I'm hoping for his sake that his return will only be posthumous...

As to the MitD...
Grimlocks are "often neutral evil" - if the monster in the dark is an evil alignment, apathetic evil - scuse me, neutral evil - seems closest to its tendencies. It'd enjoy eating the OotS but it doesn't really seem all that motivated. I still say it's a hungry grimlock barbarian, even though I'm pretty sure that's wrong ;)

As far as the papercut, I expect I'd rule that self-inflicted damage avoids DR - but a 1-point subdual papercut isn't going to put down something which can launch Miko (and her horse) that far.

Mirage_of_Deceit
2006-11-13, 02:02 PM
This comic just leads me to believe MitD is in fact a young Tarrasque

Cifer
2006-11-13, 02:24 PM
Come on, kids! Durkon was thrilled to hear he was going home "posthumously." Frankly I think he likes the human lands a little too much to ever be happy in the dwarven lands ...
He was mainly happy because he would get to return at all.

ref
2006-11-13, 02:31 PM
Oh, I had another idea about Durkon...

What if Durkon dies, then is risen, and then goes back to dwarven lands? Does that still count as "posthumously"? I'd say yes...

Pantler
2006-11-13, 02:33 PM
Crap. That one really made me feel sad about Durkon. He'll never know until he meets Thor and drinks some ale with him...
Still, the behaviour of MitD is incredible. He's like a wyrmling that knows everyone expects him to be terrifying while he'd just like to play a bit and eat some adventurers... Have you noticed how did he begin the conversation with Miko? "What's your name?" - as if he wanted to become friends! I don't think he's evil, but I won't speculate on his alignment; he's certainly cute, though :smallbiggrin:

Erloas
2006-11-13, 02:39 PM
So is it just me, or when the mitd is revealed who expects it to be much much larger then could possibly fit in the darkness of the umbrella.

I also really don't think mitd is evil, it has just never come across that way.
What sorts of creatures of DR/paper(possibly wood)?

divine
2006-11-13, 02:43 PM
hey Rich - are you married?
do you wanna be? :smallwink:

I love this whole "side-plot" stuff even if we are in suspense over Elan.. it's funny, it's brilliant..
I bet he's married.. :smalltongue:

Totally Guy
2006-11-13, 02:47 PM
Yay for my starring role in the first panel!

I'm sure that in more peaceful times, when Xykon's regenerating again in his phylactery, Miko will try again.

Grey Knight
2006-11-13, 03:20 PM
Looks like :mitd: has damage reduction ??/paper; origami swords will be the order of the day!

Also, :miko: should totally fall for littering. :smallwink:

mikeejimbo
2006-11-13, 03:27 PM
So is it just me, or when the mitd is revealed who expects it to be much much larger then could possibly fit in the darkness of the umbrella.

I certainly think so.

asmira
2006-11-13, 03:29 PM
Yay for my starring role in the first panel!



See now, that comic had me feeling all sick inside for poor Durkon, and then you just brightened my mood right up^^. Thanks, Glug. :smallsmile:

I love the chili cheese fries in this setting... Right next to Thog's fudge sunday... yay, food.

skinkatlarge
2006-11-13, 03:33 PM
First reaction: Awwwwwwww... Poor Durkon.

Second: Wait, we already knew the prophecy, PLUS, he would have no reason to stay with the OOTS if he knew what was in that letter. Yay, letter getting eaten! I still feel bad for him, though. I'll probably feel worse once I buy the books and find out what I've been missing from the online story. But he's happy, regardless.

Third: Two livers. Hee hee! And Miko's hilariously indirect way of saying to Windstrider: "That hurt, lardbutt!" And "So, what, we all just leave stuff on the ground now?" :biggrin:


hey Rich - are you married?
do you wanna be? :smallwink:

I love this whole "side-plot" stuff even if we are in suspense over Elan.. it's funny, it's brilliant..
I bet he's married.. :smalltongue:

You (or his wife, or husband, or whatever) can have him only if I get enough genetic samples to raise a clone first.

battleburn
2006-11-13, 03:38 PM
Looks like :mitd: has damage reduction ??/paper; origami swords will be the order of the day!

Also, :miko: should totally fall for littering. :smallwink:

Yes, if swords just tickle, but papercuts hurt, it might be best to get origami swords.

I lolled three times this time, first at the openig frame with the horse drinking the potion, second at the miss Miko, you dropped your purse and third at seeing that Durkon was allowed home, but him never getting the message. (Bad battleburn for laughing at such a sad thing)

I know palladins like to be clean, I enjoyed seeing she used her spare time, while the horse was drinking to change her cape.

-battleburn

skinkatlarge
2006-11-13, 03:52 PM
Is anyone else amazed all those potion containers were intact? (Haven't read through the whole thread). I've been noting that Rich seems to prefer not using magic items unless they've been established first, even though "bristling-with-magic adventurers" are one of the most established and parodiable aspects of D&D (I approve). Guess potions, like scrolls, are minor enough not to count though. Which works for me.

Also, either the CitD is really, really fast, or Miko and her Pokemount didn't fly quite as far as I thought they had.

Charity322
2006-11-13, 03:53 PM
I just have to ask, has anyone considered that posthumously doesn't mean Durkon's death?

After reading this comic perhaps the oracle meant that he would be returning after the death of the high priest ...

cyberchihuahua
2006-11-13, 03:57 PM
Is it just me, or does it look like windstrider is chuggings beers?

On a related note, hurray for two livers!

Hototo
2006-11-13, 04:21 PM
Sad times for Durkon. But may I say that I love the Giant for putting out so many comics recently! This is amazing and I hope it never stops... though it is bound to slow down eventually.

Felinoid
2006-11-13, 04:32 PM
Well, her stupidity wasn't involved for once. You must have noticed that the supposedly friendly MitD that everyone wants to love (yes, me too) actually attacked Windstriker?

I don't think the horse can realistically be considered to have been playing the game.
Incorrect. The MitD spoke of losing twice, which means he was playing twice. Not quite sure how the horse accepted the challenge, but a nervous neigh could have been misinterpreted.


in my mind, the demon roach said "HA-ha!" like Nelson from The Simpsons.
Ditto. :biggrin:

RE: Leaving the letter behind
You'll notice in panel 4 that the MitD is holding the purse at least 50 feet away from where Miko dropped her other stuff. I presume it was set down in the watchtower (between panels) before the challenge so as not to damage such an "important diplomatic missive" in the fight that she was planning. At most it separated from her during her impromptu flight. And as others have pointed out, she can easily go get another one later when so many lives aren't at stake.

Also, leaving the missive in the watchtower might be precisely why she wanted to go and battle the MitD again: to get it back and finish her mission.

RE: Durkon's return
As someone else has pointed out (in a spoiler box, for some reason), Durkon asked how HE would be finally returning, not what condition other people would be in. That wording combined with the definition doesn't leave much wiggle room. However, as Maratanos pointed out, "finally" could be an important word here. He may get to go home and leave again plenty of times before his 'final' posthumous return.

Fingolfin
2006-11-13, 04:39 PM
Yes, the story unfolds, Durkon's fate slowly becomes clearer. Or the Giant wants us to think so, hm... :)

Lord Zentei
2006-11-13, 04:45 PM
It's one thing to be convinced Miko is good, but what is it with this trend I see of Miko-fans running down all the characters she doesn't like in order to 'defend' her, like that proves something? Roy is Neutral and a bad leader and a jerk, the MitD is obviously eeeevil despite commiting maybe one questionable act in the entire comic (wanting to join the fight when the OotS were attacking the place), and of course completely ignoring all the good/neutral things he's said and done.

It's like you guys are running a campaign for a politician or something.

Is this some kind of joke? Miko fans "running down other characters"? Mind backing that claim up? If not, this post is quite frankly silly.


And now that she's attacked the MitD, it's not even enough that she thinks he's evil, it'll like a few people actually want him to literally be that alignment in order to justify her.

Having participated in all the recent comic threads I must confess that I have never once seen anyone claim that the MitD is evil specifically to justify her attacking it.


Crap. That one really made me feel sad about Durkon. He'll never know until he meets Thor and drinks some ale with him...
Still, the behaviour of MitD is incredible. He's like a wyrmling that knows everyone expects him to be terrifying while he'd just like to play a bit and eat some adventurers... Have you noticed how did he begin the conversation with Miko? "What's your name?" - as if he wanted to become friends! I don't think he's evil, but I won't speculate on his alignment; he's certainly cute, though :smallbiggrin:

I can't help but wonder whether it really will act the part of the Monster when push comes to shove should any of the OOTS have contacted it before the showdown.


Not necessarily. It could be Ghost Touch paper. :smalltongue:

Ow.

Tobimaro
2006-11-13, 05:48 PM
Whyd Citd just eat the letter? i wouldve eaten the whole purse :mitd: i mean honestly, if youre hungry you dont OPEN it and eat whats inside, you eat the whole thing...:tongue:

Maybe it thought that there was food in the purse? :wink:

It could have been a purse of holding, for all it was worth. But then again, how does Miko carry a purse around with all of that armor on? :confused: And yes :mitd: , that was not a plate of cheese fries. :tongue:

Makes you wonder just how and where dwarves write their letters. And we see that Miko's mission has just changed.

Woolysock
2006-11-13, 05:58 PM
Uh-oh. Simu-revision. Strike that. Reverse it.


It still strikes me as a tad hasty. Creatures of unalloyed malevolence don't open with 'This is kind of awkward...' when explaining how they can't let you past.

Oh, I don't know - Xykon wasn't that impolite to Miko. He was even kind enough to let her beat the crap out of Redcloak without interfering

Shara_Littlebottom
2006-11-13, 06:11 PM
Great comic.

What if we the readers are actually the :MITD: ? Hiding, unseen, strong, and hungry...

:-)

tamtam1991
2006-11-13, 06:13 PM
The tragedy unfolds, and poor star-crossed Durkon suffers.


SHE LIVES! Yay!

That's incredibly sad for Durkon, though, but...I kind of feel like this would have been far more effective if we hadn't already had the reveal that he's going home posthumously. This adds another dimension, but we already knew that one way or another the letter wouldn't end in Durkon returning home.

In response to this, just want to say that the fact that we know the ending has no effect on the story itself. Think of Romeo and Juliet (star-crossed? Anyone?), even though the end of the story is apperant, its the way that it unfolds that makes it such a masterpiece. One slip, and everything goes from best to worse. It doesnt take much to sin the Shakespearean Wheel of Fortune.

Dhavaer
2006-11-13, 06:14 PM
Dwarves have two livers? Huh.

Solara
2006-11-13, 06:22 PM
Is this some kind of joke? Miko fans "running down other characters"? Mind backing that claim up? If not, this post is quite frankly silly.


Well, to begin with, if you'll scroll down a ways you'll see an entire thread about how Roy is turning neutral. (Of course that one's positively glowing compared to some others....do you not remember all the nasty things said about Roy and the insistences that he was no longer Good before, during, and after the trial?) And I've read posts multiple times that slam the entire OotS on Miko's behalf, not to mention the one I saw just the other day stating that the author wouldn't mind if Miko killed the entire Order and became the new protagonist.

Things are relatively civil now, since even with the conflict this was a pretty light-hearted arc, but once Miko confronts them in Azure City I expect to see all the ugliness start up again.

The only explanation I can think is that some people can't handle seeing two characters they like just fine seperately having a serious conflict, so it's necessary to distance themselves by dragging one through the dirt in order to really enjoy rooting for the other.

mikeejimbo
2006-11-13, 06:24 PM
Great comic.

What if we the readers are actually the :MITD: ? Hiding, unseen, strong, and hungry...

:-)

And lonely and insecure!

Or is that just me?

Woolysock
2006-11-13, 06:42 PM
It seems to me that the Old High priest made a really bad descision in sending Durkon away. Durkon never had any desire to leave. So why not simply make him the guard of somthing deep in the heart of the dwarven kingdom? Away from everyone and everything outside of the relm.

Once durkon left, the possibility of him returning becomes real.

Mayhap Durkon's posthumous return will cause the terrible event, even dead, it's return.

That's the nature of yer classic "prophecy of DOOM" - anything you do to try and stop it will usually bring it closer to fulfillment. Moses (http://www.thebricktestament.com/exodus/moses_is_born/ex02_01-02.html) is a good example of this.

5tephen
2006-11-13, 07:12 PM
Ouch- papercut on the tounge!

(Now to go and check on the results of my bets....)

StrykerX
2006-11-13, 07:18 PM
(Did anyone else find it interesting that :mitd: was immune to Miko's sword, but then got a papercut?)

Well, remember that creatures with damage resistance can often overcome damage resistance equal to their own with both natural and wielded weapons... so it wasn't the paper that was special, it was the fact that :mitd: was the one holding it!

And I definitely agree it's about time for :durkon: to get another break... the poor guy's had it rough.

ghost_warlock
2006-11-13, 07:21 PM
Wow. I think :mitd: just became my favorite character...

"Shoot! That's not a piping hot plate of delicious chili cheese fries AT ALL!"

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 08:07 PM
The only explanation I can think is that some people can't handle seeing two characters they like just fine seperately having a serious conflict, so it's necessary to distance themselves by dragging one through the dirt in order to really enjoy rooting for the other.You make some good points, and that is why I try to be less confrontational than some.

I usually enjoy discussing the pros and cons of various characters until people get too wrapped up in their own opinions to discuss them rationally.

I've taken to ignoring "Miko must die!" and related posts. I was really bothered by the fact that Miko's existence actually made some people enjoy the comic less. I just could not understand that. Some people just take it too seriously.

As much as I love overanalyzing things, some things that I recognize as elements of humor others have taken as serious character development. Because I like to overanalyze, I hate it when people say, "It's just a webcomic!" but sometimes I feel like saying just that when conversation topics turn to reductio ad absurdum.

Tach13
2006-11-13, 08:48 PM
I don't think Durkon would come back anyway, even if he knew. He's a part of the team and will remain that as long as the team exists.

As for the posthumously line, he is a cleric, and part of a cleric order. Clerics can resurrect, and if he arrives dead, then gets resurrected by one of his fellow Dwarf Clerics, the prophecy is fullfilled. That's the wonder of prophecies, no one knows how they'll be fullfilled until they are.

Snake-Aes
2006-11-13, 08:52 PM
If anyone is willing to throw in other people's lives in the posthumously thing, I DO think that it could very well be RICH's death here, so it would be a never o.õ

Tabiani
2006-11-13, 08:59 PM
I loved the letter. Couldn't help but notice that in addition to it not being "color coded (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html) or bullet pointed" the new High Priest also didn't transcribe his accent like Durkon did (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html).

Fat Daddy
2006-11-13, 09:10 PM
I feel so bad for Durkon. We already knew he wouldn't be returning home alive, but still, that just sucks. I did like the reference to dwarves having 2 livers at the bottom of the letter though.
I kinda feel bad for :mitd: too. He seems so lonely and misunderstood. Poor little monster.
I am also starting to think that the cockroaches are some of the best characters in the strip. "Apparently littering isn't against the Paladin code" That cracked me up.

teratorn
2006-11-13, 09:15 PM
I loved the letter. Couldn't help but notice that in addition to it not being "color coded or bullet pointed" the new High Priest also didn't transcribe his accent like Durkon did.
Tabiani just beat me to this. I was going to point that also. Nice comic, and better yet I finally ordered the Origin! So please could you keep yourselves from saying to much on the subject in the next few days? I'd rather keep some of the stuff as a surprise.

:miko: rules! And her faithful mount clearly deserves an icon!
By the way, how does one get to join the official fan club?

TinSoldier
2006-11-13, 09:18 PM
:miko: rules! And her faithful mount clearly deserves an icon!
By the way, how does one get to join the official fan club?Just send $50 in a self-addressed stamped envelope to...

Umm, actually you just need to put it in your sig :biggrin: !

TheEmerged
2006-11-13, 10:04 PM
RE: Princess Bride. Actually, I believe the line from this movie was "Life is pain..."

Jefepato
2006-11-13, 10:34 PM
I just have to ask, has anyone considered that posthumously doesn't mean Durkon's death?

After reading this comic perhaps the oracle meant that he would be returning after the death of the high priest ...

No. "Posthumously" means "after one's death," not "after somebody dies." In this context it can only mean Durkon's own death.

Toric
2006-11-13, 10:39 PM
MitD's comment in the last panel reminded me of this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ9sVJ8ryJ0&mode=related&search=)

Arqane
2006-11-14, 12:02 AM
No. "Posthumously" means "after one's death," not "after somebody dies." In this context it can only mean Durkon's own death.

I'd have to disagree with that, and I was thinking the same thing. Even by one of the technical definitions (M-W online dictionary), it says nothing about self.

It certainly leaves it open, anyway, as creative interpretation can always trump technical definition. How else do you think cool changed from a measure of temperature to... well... being cool.

dakiwiboid
2006-11-14, 12:19 AM
Well, of course the :mitd: thinks that the letter's food! It was written by a dwarf, and it's probably totally saturated with beer. Poor :durkon:, though.

Felinoid
2006-11-14, 12:28 AM
I'd have to disagree with that, and I was thinking the same thing. Even by one of the technical definitions (M-W online dictionary), it says nothing about self.

If it really could be interpreted that way, the word would be utterly meaningless. Because everything would be after someone's death. "Oh foo, my dog died. Everything that happens to people in Japan from now until eternity is posthumous."

EL ite
2006-11-14, 12:32 AM
Indeed, I'm beginning to be more and more impressed by the development of MitD. He's kinda growing on me.

Either way, I believe that their is indeed hope for Durkon. I have some strange feeling that he'll make it back to the dwarven lands at some point, maybe even prehumously <--(is that a word?), regardless of the letter. In fact, I think possibly the letter was merely a twist to intrigue us further into his return. Do you think that the posthumously meant his death or someone elses?

Ponderable things. regardless, a very impressive comic strip. Plot furthering ftw!

Leo_Forestclaw
2006-11-14, 01:19 AM
Is this a sad reflection on how much I've come to care for these characters that upon reading Durkon's letter my first thought was, "Rich! How could you be so cruel. I'm mean, going home dead is one thing but this... this is just WRONG."

Dame you Joss, di, I mean, Rich!

Krytha
2006-11-14, 01:40 AM
He ATE it?! He must've skipped lunch...

Lord Zentei
2006-11-14, 03:10 AM
Well, to begin with, if you'll scroll down a ways you'll see an entire thread about how Roy is turning neutral. (Of course that one's positively glowing compared to some others....do you not remember all the nasty things said about Roy and the insistences that he was no longer Good before, during, and after the trial?)

As for the Roy = LN thread: that's more of a joke, as far as I can tell. And as for the trial threads: having only ghosted the forums until recently, I'll have to take your word for it. As far as I could see from the times I was browsing, hoewver, the anti-fans were being the more irrational, by and large.


And I've read posts multiple times that slam the entire OotS on Miko's behalf, not to mention the one I saw just the other day stating that the author wouldn't mind if Miko killed the entire Order and became the new protagonist.

Fnord? Where was this? :smallconfused:


Things are relatively civil now, since even with the conflict this was a pretty light-hearted arc, but once Miko confronts them in Azure City I expect to see all the ugliness start up again.

The only explanation I can think is that some people can't handle seeing two characters they like just fine seperately having a serious conflict, so it's necessary to distance themselves by dragging one through the dirt in order to really enjoy rooting for the other.

I'll have to echo TinSoldier: the idea that people like the comic less as a result of Miko being in it is truly perplexing, as personally I have little or no objections to any of the characters. I too enjoy overanalyzing, though despite that (or perhaps because of it) I tend to find poor arguments a bit annoying.

Grey Knight
2006-11-14, 03:28 AM
I'll have to echo TinSoldier: the idea that people like the comic less as a result of Miko being in it is truly perplexing, as personally I have little or no objections to any of the characters.

Tell me about it. I only started reading the forums a while ago, so I had no idea previously that any such craziness existed. I was thus somewhat perplexed when, after I mentioned in IRC that Roy's quip in #250 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0250.html) made me laugh, one of the other guys in the channel exploded in a ball of seething fury and began decrying both Roy and myself as worthless evil inhuman lower-than-pond-scum sexists.

(Then again, this was the same guy who shouted "Help, help, I'm being oppressed" when I wished everyone a happy Christmas, rather than using his "Winterval" idea... he did have a tendency to be slightly more strident than necessary.
)

Renegade Paladin
2006-11-14, 03:44 AM
Maybe it thought that there was food in the purse? :wink:

It could have been a purse of holding, for all it was worth. But then again, how does Miko carry a purse around with all of that armor on? :confused: And yes :mitd: , that was not a plate of cheese fries. :tongue:

Makes you wonder just how and where dwarves write their letters. And we see that Miko's mission has just changed.
"All of that armor on?" She has and uses Evasion; she can't be wearing that much armor.

Delgarde
2006-11-14, 05:15 AM
I've been noting that Rich seems to prefer not using magic items unless they've been established first

I don't think that's really the case - we've had potions and scrolls show up when needed on various occasions - not to mention Belkar's Ring of Jumping.

Delgarde
2006-11-14, 05:29 AM
"All of that armor on?" She has and uses Evasion; she can't be wearing that much armor.

Technically a monk shouldn't be wearing armor at all, but Evasion at least will work in light armor. Given that and the artwork, I'd say she's wearing a chain shirt - probably mithral to avoid any check penalty.

eilandesq
2006-11-14, 05:47 AM
Technically a monk shouldn't be wearing armor at all, but Evasion at least will work in light armor. Given that and the artwork, I'd say she's wearing a chain shirt - probably mithral to avoid any check penalty.

It could be a mithral breastplate, which is effectively light armor under the rules and will allow full expression of a Dex bonus of up to +5--which should be enough for Miko.

Zeb The Troll
2006-11-14, 06:28 AM
Technically a monk shouldn't be wearing armor at all, but Evasion at least will work in light armor. Given that and the artwork, I'd say she's wearing a chain shirt - probably mithral to avoid any check penalty.
Should or shouldn't be wearing armor is subjective. Certainly there are things Miko can't do as a monk while she's wearing armor, but since her main class (though not her first) is paladin, I think she's perfectly justified in wearing whatever she wants.

In fact, as long as she's wearing light armor now (which is feasible as others have described), the only thing she's missing out on is her Flurry of Blows (which she can't do with those weapons anyway) and her AC bonus for Wisdom (which may just be low enough that the armor provides a better AC anyway).

SteveMB
2006-11-14, 07:24 AM
I don't think that's really the case - we've had potions and scrolls show up when needed on various occasions - not to mention Belkar's Ring of Jumping.
Belkar's possession of a Ring of Jumping was established when they divvied up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html) the treasure from the dungeon of Dorukan.

Lord Zentei
2006-11-14, 07:29 AM
Is anyone else amazed all those potion containers were intact? (Haven't read through the whole thread). I've been noting that Rich seems to prefer not using magic items unless they've been established first, even though "bristling-with-magic adventurers" are one of the most established and parodiable aspects of D&D (I approve). Guess potions, like scrolls, are minor enough not to count though. Which works for me.

Indeed, and I am thankful for that. Unexplained magic items just being in a person's inventory would quite frankly be bad writing. Healing potions could be considered fairly basic, at least, especially for a paladin or fighter. Weather control scrolls for a Cleric of the Thunder God are likewise plausible. But anything significantly more exotic would be just too convenient.

teratorn
2006-11-14, 07:44 AM
Just send $50 in a self-addressed stamped envelope to...!

It wouldn't work, I need to keep what's left of my OOTS budget to buy the next book where we will be able to enjoy Miko in all her glory on print. By the way, despite being a rabid :miko: fan, :haley: is well above her in my preferences. Red is by far my favorite in the OOTS universe.Despite ranking the other members below Miko, I like the OOTS as a whole, so except for Belkar I would be for them in a confrontation against Miko.

The tower is apparently very close to the city, according to :xykon: going from and back is less than one and a half days. As such I expect the next panels to be packed with more action less humour. There are a series of possibilities, that can not be considered spoilers, involving the arrival/departure of :xykon: , the OOTS, and Miko. The GIANT will likely go for the most dramatic, but he has surprised me before.

Om
2006-11-14, 08:37 AM
Indeed, and I am thankful for that. Unexplained magic items just being in a person's inventory would quite frankly be bad writing.
It is always nice to get away from the "A wizard did it" school of narrative

Solara
2006-11-14, 08:45 AM
Tell me about it. I only started reading the forums a while ago, so I had no idea previously that any such craziness existed. I was thus somewhat perplexed when, after I mentioned in IRC that Roy's quip in #250 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0250.html) made me laugh, one of the other guys in the channel exploded in a ball of seething fury and began decrying both Roy and myself as worthless evil inhuman lower-than-pond-scum sexists.

(Then again, this was the same guy who shouted "Help, help, I'm being oppressed" when I wished everyone a happy Christmas, rather than using his "Winterval" idea... he did have a tendency to be slightly more strident than necessary.
)

LOL, yes, I've met a few people like that. I'm a little surprised it was a guy using the 'sexist' argument, because I clearly remember at least one other poster being seriously offended by that strip and would have thought it was the same person, otherwise. Roy called Miko a b****, and some of the posters (myself included) were gleefully backing him up, and this apparently sickened her and she insisted that the real reason we all disliked the character was because Miko was a 'strong, empowered woman'.

...I really miss that little emoticon that was rolling its eyes. :smallfrown:

charik
2006-11-14, 09:28 AM
It wouldn't work, I need to keep what's left of my OOTS budget to buy the next book where we will be able to enjoy Miko in all her glory on print.
Don't worry, they'll take all major credit cards, too.

themunck
2006-11-14, 09:42 AM
And a few minor ones, too.

btw, have anyone noticed that since it became "ilegal" to say "first post", the number of pages in a comictopic have decressed quite a bit?

oh, and why does :Miko: carry two identical cloaks?

Doug Lampert
2006-11-14, 10:29 AM
btw, have anyone noticed that since it became "ilegal" to say "first post", the number of pages in a comictopic have decressed quite a bit?

oh, and why does :Miko: carry two identical cloaks?
Quite predictable and a major reason why people objected to the practice.

First page posts encourage people to post without actually thinking about (or in many cases even reading) the comic. That drives post count up WITHOUT adding anything of interest to the thread, hence some people seeing X pages of posts and reading the first without getting any meaningful comics discussion don't bother reading the rest prior to posting themselves, so they post the same brilliant observation as 300 other people ("Hey did you notice the Demon Roaches") further driving up post count without information.

It's a positive feedback loop that can and will kill forums if not stopped.

As for the other: Miko carries two cloaks because she was on a long trip and you need to be able to wear one when the other is soaked through. They are identical because having been purchased in Azure City there was only one color choice anyway.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-11-14, 11:02 AM
btw, have anyone noticed that since it became "ilegal" to say "first post", the number of pages in a comictopic have decressed quite a bit?

Yes, indeed. I registered on the forums when this "first post" thing was very strong. I do felt compelled to shout this whenever I managed to post a comment -- with content, by the way -- in the first page, which never happened. :smalltongue:


But there is another reason for the small number of pages. There are more posts per page now (30) than before (15). We get half the pages we WOULD get on the other forum. :smallbiggrin:

KeiranHalcyon
2006-11-14, 11:49 AM
I don't think that's really the case - we've had potions and scrolls show up when needed on various occasions - not to mention Belkar's Ring of Jumping.

Ahem... one Ring of Jumping, please (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html).

silvadel
2006-11-14, 12:17 PM
Poor Poor Durkon -- so utterly tragic.

snoogans
2006-11-14, 12:30 PM
BOTH his livers?!!?! LOL! Very funny...Quite the drinker, the priest was, eh?

Margerine A Low Fat Cannibal
2006-11-14, 12:32 PM
Two Livers. :lol:

Lord_Oni
2006-11-14, 01:40 PM
All i can say is poor Durkon

Argus
2006-11-15, 12:27 AM
One other thing that no one has specifically commented on. Perhaps because it is too obvious but:

Some of the comments for strip #368 asked why the reply to Durkon needed to be sealed in the pouch rather than given verbally to the messenger. Aside from the possibility that Shojo simply specified the instructions that way (and the new High Priest saw no reason to change them), it enables the reply to be lost in this strip.

Om
2006-11-15, 05:39 AM
Well Durkon wrote a letter and got a letter in reply. I know its hard to fathom in this day and age but letters used to be the most reliable form of long distance communication :smallwink: