Ravanan
2013-03-05, 11:22 PM
I asked this question in the basic Q&A thread, but there was a disagreement, so let me ask here:
With regard to applying metamagic to 0-level spells, if the metamagic feat raises the level of the spell, does that casting that spell still expend the spell slot?
As arguments can be made from both spontaneous and prepared casting, I will replicate the d20PFSRD's Cantrips sections for both Sorcerer and Wizard
Sorcerer Pg 71 Core Rulebook:
Sorcerers learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Wizard Pg 79 Core Rulebook:
Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from an opposition school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below).
SRD re: Metamagic Feats Pg. 113 Core Rulebook:
Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.
Ultimately, the question is whether it is the 0-level spells themselves that do not expend slots, in which case metamagicked 0-levels are infinite usage, or whether it is the 0-level slots that are not expended, in which case the metamagicked spells are expended upon use.
Here were the arguments in the Q&A post:
A71: Technically it does indeed say that level 0 spells are never expanded and metamagic feat say they don't alter the spells level in any way, even though it takes up a higher level slot.
So by the letter of the word, you can indeed cast a metamagic cantrip all day long without limitation.
(But since you still have to reserve one slot for them and you would need a lot of metamagic feats to truly make them powerful, this might not actually be that imbalanced and could actually be intended.)
A 71 disagreement A metamagiced 0-level spell is not generally a 0-level spell any more, as it requires a higher level slot to cast, a limited resource. It doesn't fit within your 0-level slots anymore, so you have to expend a larger amount of energy to cast such a spell. For example, if a 6th level Sorcerer knows Acid Splash and has the Maximized feat, she could apply Maximized to Acid Splash and cast it as a 3rd level spell, using one of her 3rd level slots for the day. It doesn't matter where it started, it matters where it ends.
With regard to applying metamagic to 0-level spells, if the metamagic feat raises the level of the spell, does that casting that spell still expend the spell slot?
As arguments can be made from both spontaneous and prepared casting, I will replicate the d20PFSRD's Cantrips sections for both Sorcerer and Wizard
Sorcerer Pg 71 Core Rulebook:
Sorcerers learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Wizard Pg 79 Core Rulebook:
Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from an opposition school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below).
SRD re: Metamagic Feats Pg. 113 Core Rulebook:
Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.
Ultimately, the question is whether it is the 0-level spells themselves that do not expend slots, in which case metamagicked 0-levels are infinite usage, or whether it is the 0-level slots that are not expended, in which case the metamagicked spells are expended upon use.
Here were the arguments in the Q&A post:
A71: Technically it does indeed say that level 0 spells are never expanded and metamagic feat say they don't alter the spells level in any way, even though it takes up a higher level slot.
So by the letter of the word, you can indeed cast a metamagic cantrip all day long without limitation.
(But since you still have to reserve one slot for them and you would need a lot of metamagic feats to truly make them powerful, this might not actually be that imbalanced and could actually be intended.)
A 71 disagreement A metamagiced 0-level spell is not generally a 0-level spell any more, as it requires a higher level slot to cast, a limited resource. It doesn't fit within your 0-level slots anymore, so you have to expend a larger amount of energy to cast such a spell. For example, if a 6th level Sorcerer knows Acid Splash and has the Maximized feat, she could apply Maximized to Acid Splash and cast it as a 3rd level spell, using one of her 3rd level slots for the day. It doesn't matter where it started, it matters where it ends.