Durkons replacement

[AngryHobbit]

1) Hilgya?
She didnt appear once after the first Linear Guild broke, and Giant had one oportunity to return her to the comic and didnt do that, so its very unlikely
2)Celia?
They really need a healer, and Elan only has Cure Light Wounds.
3)O-Chul?
He will certainly appear again.
4)New character?
I would like this to happen, but I guess he would become the Scrappy character.

[TRH]

How about Leeky Windstaff? He's available, and a divine caster. :smallbiggrin:

[Emulgator]

Leeky and V disputting would propably make the rest of the comic covered in text though.

[mrzomby]

Whoever they find would be someone on the continent, which means

1. the scrappy(perhaps a mercenary cleric?)
2. healing wand with a beard slapped on
3. one of the paladins/azurites get send over by hinjo?

[TheSummoner]

Who says they'd replace Durkon in the frist place? This isn't supposed to be a representation of a game. There isn't a player who has nothing to do unless he rolls up a new character. This is just a story that follows the rules of a game.

[Kish]

Durkon will replace Durkon.

Possibly Vampire Durkon will replace Durkon temporarily. Failing that, Durkon will replace Durkon once Vampire Durkon has been destroyed and resurrected.

[Zmeoaice]

Who says they'd replace Durkon in the frist place? This isn't supposed to be a representation of a game. There isn't a player who has nothing to do unless he rolls up a new character. This is just a story that follows the rules of a game.

They need a healer.

[AngryHobbit]

Who says they'd replace Durkon in the frist place? This isn't supposed to be a representation of a game. There isn't a player who has nothing to do unless he rolls up a new character. This is just a story that follows the rules of a game.

How are a Rogue, Bard, almost dead Barbarian/Ranger, Wizard (who, altough powerful, might get possesed by demons any time soon) and a Fighter gonna defeat an Epic Lich, 17th level Goblin Cleric embued by the Artifact of Doom, Evil Warlord who controls one third of a continent, Vampire Cleric, depending what Durkon does - maybe even 2 vampire Clerics (but thats highly unlikely), and what is (probably) baby Tarrasque alone?
This is not a gameplay mechanic, they NEED help.

[Xelbiuj]

I'd like to see O'Chul on the team, he's the only Azurite paladin that doesn't annoy me.

[SaintRidley]

Durkon will replace Durkon.

Possibly Vampire Durkon will replace Durkon temporarily. Failing that, Durkon will replace Durkon once Vampire Durkon has been destroyed and resurrected.

Probably the first of those, I'm thinking. Vampire Durkon will result in all kinds of character development not just for Durkon, but for everybody else.

Better to wonder who will replace Belkar when he bites it. Which may be before Durkon rejoins the group, precluding resurrection.

[Zmeoaice]

How are a Rogue, Bard, almost dead Barbarian/Ranger, Wizard (who, altough powerful, might get possessed by demons any time soon) and a Fighter gonna defeat an Epic Lich, 17th level Goblin Cleric embued by the Artifact of Doom, Evil Warlord who controls one third of a continent, Vampire Cleric, depending what Durkon does - maybe even 2 vampire Clerics (but thats highly unlikely), and what is (probably) baby Tarrasque alone?


Considering the fiends don't want Xykon to win, being possessed might be an advantage.

[Katuko]

Even seen as a story, the party has benefited greatly so far from Durkon's healing, and a cleric's holy/divine magic is of great use when warding against negative energy and dealing with undead. V can dish out some buff spells, but V would not be able to bring people back from the brink of death like Durkon could.

Without a healer they only have potions to recover with, and considering the damage they are likely to take in the eventual confrontation with Team Evil they would realize the benefit of having one.

[Kish]

and what is (probably) baby Tarrasque
I'm just going to pretend that I don't know which character you're suggesting is a baby version of a mindless, magicless beast...
...and note that a baby tarrasque would be well under the Order's challenge rating. They'd be lucky to even get XP for fighting one at this point.

[Zmeoaice]

I'm just going to pretend that I don't know which character you're suggesting is a baby version of a mindless, magicless beast...
...and note that a baby tarrasque would be well under the Order's challenge rating. They'd be lucky to even get XP for fighting one at this point.

The Monster in the Darkness?

[Shale]

Obviously not, because that is such a silly idea that nobody would seriously propose it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

It's true that they do desperately need someone who can heal them after a fight, though. They've relied heavily on Durkon to keep them going between battles, and I'd be shocked if they didn't at least make an effort to get a paladin or two traveling with them.

[Kish]

What Shale said.

...And if you're under the impression I asked, :elan: "Which character do you mean by the baby tarrasque?" then you need to reread the post you responded to.

[AngryHobbit]

It is hoped that the tarrasque is a solitary creation, some hideous abomination unleashed by the dark arts or by elder, forgotten gods to punish all of nature. The elemental nature of the tarrasque leads the few living tarrasque experts to speculate that the elemental princes of evil have something to do with its existence. In any case, the location of the tarrasque remains a mystery, as it rarely leaves witnesses in its wake, and nature quickly grows over all remnants of its presence. It is rumored that the tarrasque is responsible for the extinction of one ancient civilization, for the records of their last days spoke of a great reptilian punisher sent by the gods to end the world.

They are quite powerful and they are unique. Only problem i can see with that is that Tarrasques cant speak. And that Tarasque cant look cute, but
http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/2010%20Tarrasque%20Map%20Mascot%20text%20jared%20h indman.jpg

Looks hungry and stupid. Which fits our character :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

The only problem you see is that they can't speak? Not, oh I don't know, that they can't teleport anyone, that they're non-sapient, or that the single item that might fit in the "pro" column here is "unique"? Or what I said in this thread, that a baby tarrasque would be less powerful than any member of the Order now and far, far less powerful than the creature in the darkness?

[F.Harr]

Whoever they find would be someone on the continent, which means

1. the scrappy(perhaps a mercenary cleric?)
2. healing wand with a beard slapped on
3. one of the paladins/azurites get send over by hinjo?

I like "2".

[warmachine]

Resurrected Durkon. With a sitrep by Belkar and Durkon and Vaarsuvius gone, Roy realises defending the Gate by waiting for team Tarquin is a non-viable strategy, but an isolated Malack is a chance to shorten the odds. Roy orders Haley and Elan to find Malack. By good fortune, they find Vaarsuvius first and, combined with Roy's undead bane sword, destroys Malack and Durkon (who lacks clerical powers). Team OotS uses the flying carpet to fly to another city and buy a Raise Dead.

[AngryHobbit]

The only problem you see is that they can't speak? Not, oh I don't know, that they can't teleport anyone, that they're non-sapient, or that the single item that might fit in the "pro" column here is "unique"? Or what I said in this thread, that a baby tarrasque would be less powerful than any member of the Order now and far, far less powerful than the creature in the darkness?

OK. You win. MitD being a baby Tarrasque is almost as dumb as being a Hello Kitty, judging by her/his umbrella.

I just cant think of anything, except maybe miniature Snarl, but I think Rich will think of something more original. I went too much off-topic.

[873]

I could see the Oots teaming up with O-Chul or Lien at Kraagor's gate, if Durkon doesn't end up being part of the team by the end (and since Malack looks like he wants to retreat, that may be likely). The two paladins are already there, so why not take advantage of their heals?

Vampire Durkon would be interesting though. Would he kill himself because he is undead, or wait to be revived?



Better to wonder who will replace Belkar when he bites it. Which may be before Durkon rejoins the group, precluding resurrection.

I suspect this won't be as much of a problem as Durkon's replacement would be. There's probably more close-combat attackers around, so the Oots could feasibly just hire a mercenary as a temporary measure until something more permanent is found.

[Kish]

Sorry about being harsh. Just seen the "baby tarrasque" line a lot. :smalltongue:

Grey Wolf maintains a thread to discuss what the creature in the darkness could be. For the subject of this thread, I doubt there will be a replacement, even more than I doubt Durkon will stay dead/undead/not in the Order.

[Man on Fire]

Who says they'd replace Durkon in the frist place? This isn't supposed to be a representation of a game. There isn't a player who has nothing to do unless he rolls up a new character. This is just a story that follows the rules of a game.

And this argument has nothing to do with the reasons why they need replacement.
Think about how important for their strategies and combat Durkon and V have been. Consider that Durkon was the only guy who could turn undead, their main heaer, strong front-line fighter and had variety of spells that proved very usefull. He single handely beaten tar out of Leekey, when nobody else could touch him., he was the one who eliminated several members of Linear Guild in last battle. Without him they take strong blow to the side and in fact bigger one than if V died, because he was better team player.

I find it very annoying that whenever anybody even dares to suggest they consider this story to be a game, somebody will jump to yell "No! No! stop having fun! You're WRONG!", as I experienced in almost every thread concering Durkon's death and vampirisation, but even if looked from your perspective, thi is still a story that follows rules of the game. And rules of the game says they just lost their most powerful and useful asset.

[slayerx]

Whoever they find would be someone on the continent, which means

Not necessarily. Its too late for them to get a replacement for the upcoming battle so they may have to save looking for someone till after this battle. And since they don't know anyone on the continent, and the nature of the continent makes it unlikely that they would find a high level cleric they could trust and was willing to help them, it is very possible that they may wait until they on their way to the next gate to find a new healer.

O'chul i'm not sure if he's a candidate. While they will most likely meet up with him and Lien on their way to the next gate, i'm not sure if he's an adequate healer

Personally i would not rule out Hilgya. who knows, maybe after her break up with Durkon she went back to the dwarves Despite her dislike of the place. Heck wouldn't be the first time a linear guild member resurfaced after being gone for so long.

[EmperorSarda]

Durkon's been dead for barely two strips and already we talk of replacing him. How heartless. ;)

[AngryHobbit]

Sorry about being harsh.

You weren't. Everyone has his right to rage a little about something he disagrees here. :smalltongue:



Think about how important for their strategies and combat Durkon and V have been. Consider that Durkon was the only guy who could turn undead, their main heaer, strong front-line fighter and had variety of spells that proved very usefull. He single handely beaten tar out of Leekey, when nobody else could touch him., he was the one who eliminated several members of Linear Guild in last battle. Without him they take strong blow to the side and in fact bigger one than if V died, because he was better team player.



Exactly. They need at least temporary replacement, until/if Durkon returns. They cant rely on Potions alone.
Considering that there is no need for new characters, Celia or O-Chul probably. Or both? (considering that Belkster could kick the bucket soon.)

There. Im not only replacing Durkon, im killing Belkar too!
MUHAHAHAHAH!!!:xykon:

[skaddix]

Belkar can just be replaced by a Paladin. Lien or O'Chul will work fine.

Durkon is harder. Hilyga and Leeky work I guess.

[pendell]

Durkon's been dead for barely two strips and already we talk of replacing him. How heartless. ;)

I believe the phrase you are looking for is "pragmatic" :)


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Gift Jeraff]

The former Supreme Leader.

[Prospero7]

I'd find it interesting to see Lien and O'Chul replace Belkar and Durkon but I think Kish is right on the money: Durkon will replace Durkon.

A vampire Durkon in the party? The dining jokes between him and Belkar would be fantastic. :smalltongue:

[zimmerwald1915]

Considering that there is no need for new characters, Celia or O-Chul probably. Or both? (considering that Belkster could kick the bucket soon.)
Neither Celia's nor O-Chul's skill set overlaps with Durkon's. Celia's a mid-level Sorcerer and given that O-Chul has yet to lay on hands, he's probably a mid-level Fighter with one Paladin level. The only thing they bring to the table when it comes to replacing Durkon is that they're already allies of the Order. They don't bring anything else that the Order lost when they lost Durkon.

[Scrub]

Belkar with "Owls Wisdom" buff if a really basic healer is what they need, since he has access to divine magic as a Ranger (since he was able to cast "Cure serious wounds" from a scroll while he wasn't afflicted by his low wisdom score).

Not sure if he can prepare his own "Cure X wounds" spells. I think they're on his spell list as a ranger but I don't play DnD myself so I'm a bit hazy on whether or not he can use them without scrolls especially in his level drained state.
Otherwise they'd need plenty of scrolls.

Wouldn't be as powerful as an actual Cleric since he'd be lacking plenty of spells but can probably stand in temporarily with the assistance of some of Elans spells until they can get their hands on an actual Cleric since he's the only one we know of (or that I know of) who is close or capable of being in the immediate vicinity of the Order of the Stick.

Later.... probably Durkon again.
Just because he isn't out for the count yet.

[Aadst1]

I wonder if Elan ever changed his spell selection like he discussed http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html. Never really heard of a bard being a healer, but my D&D 3.0+ experience is limited to NWN.

[Procyonpi]

Can O-chul even cast? After all, he started out as a fighter and might not have the best wisdom. We already know his Charisma isn't great, so no real lay on hands to speak of.

[Olinser]

1) Hilgya?
She didnt appear once after the first Linear Guild broke, and Giant had one oportunity to return her to the comic and didnt do that, so its very unlikely
2)Celia?
They really need a healer, and Elan only has Cure Light Wounds.
3)O-Chul?
He will certainly appear again.
4)New character?
I would like this to happen, but I guess he would become the Scrappy character.

This debate is pointless.

Clearly, Durkon will be replaced by Banjo in all his mighty glory.

[AngryHobbit]

Can O-chul even cast? After all, he started out as a fighter and might not have the best wisdom. We already know his Charisma isn't great, so no real lay on hands to speak of.

I completely forgot about that.



This debate is pointless.

Clearly, Durkon will be replaced by Banjo in all his mighty glory.

How ignorant of me. This Thread can be closed now.

[faustin]

Durkon's been dead for barely two strips and already we talk of replacing him. How heartless. ;)

Right. Maybe the Order should ask the Linear Guild or Xykon a time out mourning period.

[Sunken Valley]

Cleric of Loki. He had a ressurection scroll on him. Plus he can probably wind walk. Remember, Durkon is also OOTS teleporter.

Miko. Roy talked to his archon in 664 about an unspoken plan. Maybe it was contacting Miko.

Haley. Haley has UMD.

Vampire Durkon. He's gonna leave Malack's service one way or another.

[silveralen]

When Roy died they carted around his decaying corpse for 200 strips. Durkon has been "dead" for two strips, and he is alot less dead than Roy was.

Just saying, you might be jumping the gun a bit.

[zimmerwald1915]

he is alot less dead than Roy was.
He's not dead at all. His creature type says so :smalltongue:

[Shale]

"The party will try their damndest to get Durkon back to the land of the living" and "the party needs somebody who can keep them breathing in the short term" are not mutually exclusive statements.

[Shred-Bot]

They need at least temporary replacement, until/if Durkon returns. They cant rely on Potions alone.

Maybe they can rely on potions if they visit Eve and Larry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html) again (if they're still open, of course). All potions only 20gp each!

Though I guess at some point encumbrance becomes a factor.

[zimmerwald1915]

Maybe they can rely on potions if they visit Eve and Larry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html) again (if they're still open, of course). All potions only 20gp each!

Though I guess at some point encumbrance becomes a factor.
Nope, not even then. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html)

[Ellye]

I don't think Durkon (or Belkar for that matter) will be replaced or recovered.
The Order will be down two men, and down for good.

Also, losing the Cleric is great for added tension - they no longer have Resurrection (well, UMD aside, at least).

[Alan_Pehnereas]

Elan.
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)
Just a thought.

[Dr.Epic]

I hope their name is Squiddley Doodle Fluffer.

[Shred-Bot]

Haley. Haley has UMD.

Haley UMD-ing a scroll of restoration is Belkar's best chance of getting fixed. (and since they know that Xykon likes energy-draining people, there's a pretty good chance they bought some, too.)

If they have enough scrolls and wands, Haley should be able to pull off the healing functions that Elan can't (aka everything other than small to medium HP refills). Of course they won't go melding into stone and dropping holy words on people, but there isn't going to be a perfect solution...

...unless the Giant decides to pull a Beerfest, and have Durkon's brother (who taught him everything he knows about being a cleric and has secretly been corresponding with him in such detail that he knows everything about Xykon, the gates, and all their inside jokes) show up and emotionally ask them to call him Durkon. (Spoilered on the remote chance that someone interested in this movie still hasn't seen it yet)

[D4rtagnan]

It turns out that the cat is actually a tibitt favorite soul (or other divine class). New party member solved.

[Carl]

Complete left field idea. Mostly for he lulz, i find it highly unlikely but it stinks of "just crazy enough to work".

They get to the gate to find Xykon and Redcloak in the middle of the ritual. Epic amounts of craziness go off as the OotS tries to fight through and stop them but they fail. Then at the last moment we see Redcloak go all panicky as he realises Xykon knows what he was upto and has altered the ritual to compensate, so Redcloak pulls is final trump card and ends the ritual in some fashion that blows the gate to stop Xykon getting it.

Assuming MitD doesn't finish him off at this point and Xykon is at least temporarily inconvenienced i could see the OotS and Redcloak escaping loosely together followed by a WTH are you upto at him. At that point he's nothing to lose by laying it all on the line at this point. He now needs Xykon stopped as much as the next man. Vaarsuvius would probably be understanding for obvious reasons. Elan given both rule of drama and his understanding nature would be ok. Haley would come round if everyone else does IMHO. That just leaves Roy and Belkar. If Redcloak goes into the full backstory i think his bringing up his little sister might be enough to get through Roy's armour and make him pay attention. Belkar would have been an easy sell before this last strip, but now, TBH i think he'd be the one to give Redcloak the "hurt my friends and you will suffer horribly" spiel:smalleek:. Hojo might be a hard sell, but i think all Redcloak really needs is a line along the lines of "All i want is for my people to be able to live in safety and peace, to be a great civilisation in the world, not outcasts fighting off every would be non-monster just because iof our species". Hojo and co are basically in that situation themselves right now, and it's really all they want. To get back their civilisation and not be chased to the ends of the world by the gobbo's et al. He can't really come up with a good argument to refute that.

Maybe that's why the giant has azure city fall actually, with the gate gone the gobbo's could have lost and it wouldn't have mattered, but by having them win it puts the azurites through the same experience the gobbo's have had since, well forever. It would take a lot of bridge mending, but it offers another way for the Gobbo's to break out of the XP food always evil bracket.



Anyway totally crazy and like a million to one chance, but you never know.

[rodneyAnonymous]

That is really hard for me to read.

[orrion]

Cleric of Loki. He had a ressurection scroll on him. Plus he can probably wind walk. Remember, Durkon is also OOTS teleporter.

Miko. Roy talked to his archon in 664 about an unspoken plan. Maybe it was contacting Miko.

Haley. Haley has UMD.

Vampire Durkon. He's gonna leave Malack's service one way or another.

1) How would they contact the Cleric of Loki, and what reason would said Cleric have to be anywhere near the Western Continent right now?

2) And what could Miko do? We've never seen her corpse after the last comic, so at best it's in Azure City and at worst doesn't exist.. meaning the Order would need True Resurrection. Good luck with that.

3) Does she?

4) Eh. I could see the whole "vampire" stage as being a huge red herring for the original prophecy. One interpretation of the prophecy is that the last Gate is somewhere in or through Dwarven lands and so the Order (and Durkon) bring Xykon there. Hilarity ensues, fulfilling the prophecy.

Remember that a Paladin can't really join the party in any capacity until Belkar is dead. Associating with evil means they would lose Paladin skills. Miko never lost them from that angle because she only treated the Order as prisoners.


Belkar with "Owls Wisdom" buff if a really basic healer is what they need, since he has access to divine magic as a Ranger (since he was able to cast "Cure serious wounds" from a scroll while he wasn't afflicted by his low wisdom score).

Not sure if he can prepare his own "Cure X wounds" spells. I think they're on his spell list as a ranger but I don't play DnD myself so I'm a bit hazy on whether or not he can use them without scrolls especially in his level drained state.
Otherwise they'd need plenty of scrolls.

Rangers can prepare their own spells. We've never seen Belkar cast spells though, because his Wisdom is abysmal and he's.. not optimized. Even assuming Belkar is a 15th level Ranger though, he only has access to 5 spells a day (2 1st, 1 each 2nd, 3rd, 4th). And he would lose access based on the level drain.

[Zmeoaice]

How ignorant of me. This Thread can be closed now.

No... how do you know it's not his brother, Giggles, in his mighty pie-eating glory? He has more worshipers.

[White Magic]

These guys have it right, I think:


Resurrected Durkon. With a sitrep by Belkar and Durkon and Vaarsuvius gone, Roy realises defending the Gate by waiting for team Tarquin is a non-viable strategy, but an isolated Malack is a chance to shorten the odds. Roy orders Haley and Elan to find Malack. By good fortune, they find Vaarsuvius first and, combined with Roy's undead bane sword, destroys Malack and Durkon (who lacks clerical powers). Team OotS uses the flying carpet to fly to another city and buy a Raise Dead.


Durkon will replace Durkon.

Possibly Vampire Durkon will replace Durkon temporarily. Failing that, Durkon will replace Durkon once Vampire Durkon has been destroyed and resurrected.


Maybe they can rely on potions if they visit Eve and Larry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html) again (if they're still open, of course). All potions only 20gp each!

Though I guess at some point encumbrance becomes a factor.

Give Elan's romantic nature and Roy's Lawful one, they will get Durkon un-vamped and re-clericked ASAP.

[mikelibrarian]

Elan's been ready to fill in for almost 800 strips.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html

[Bird]

2. healing wand with a beard slapped on
That friggin cracked me up.

[coineineagh]

Remember that a Paladin can't really join the party in any capacity until Belkar is dead. Associating with evil means they would lose Paladin skills. Miko never lost them from that angle because she only treated the Order as prisoners.

Well, the same difficulties apply to V now. Although not evil by nature, his actions are more reprehensible than all the things Belkar has done put together. That will cause difficulty, however it is revealed to the rest. I wonder when V will show up...
Or am I reading paladins wrong? I thought only Miko was lawful-to-a-fault.

[coineineagh]

2. healing wand with a beard slapped on
That friggin cracked me up.

Don't forget a faux Scottish accent.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Hate to break it to you guys, but Durkon ain't coming back, at least not to the land of the living, and not willingly. Think about it. This whole time, at least since the trial, what has been Durkon's dream? To go home. In a metaphorical sense, he's there now (minus the vampirism bit). If they do get a Raise Dead cast on him, he'll probably just stay where he is.

Here's hoping for Right-Eye's cleric daughter to appear and take D's place!

[Agnostik]

Remember that a Paladin can't really join the party in any capacity until Belkar is dead. Associating with evil means they would lose Paladin skills. Miko never lost them from that angle because she only treated the Order as prisoners.
What about Thanh? He "associated" with Belkar for quite a while. Or was it forced somehow and didn't count? He could've probably formed his own resistance, with blackjack and... no, wait. Paladin.

[faustin]

Elan's been ready to fill in for almost 800 strips.

Is not the Bard´s deal (Jack of all Trades) to support a role, specially when the pj who used to perform it is unavailable?:smallamused:

[Jubal_Barca]

Can I apply for the vacancy? :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

What about Thanh? He "associated" with Belkar for quite a while. Or was it forced somehow and didn't count? He could've probably formed his own resistance, with blackjack and... no, wait. Paladin.

It requires Knowing association- if Thanh suspects, but never confirms, that Belkar is Evil, he's probably safe.

Or rather, was- he's dead now.

[Wrecan]

I think Elan and Haley-with-a-wand can cover it for the most part. Elan barely uses his spell slots as is. He's got at least 13 levels of bard, which can give him plenty of healing. Haley can fill in with the rest.

[TaRix]

Durkon's replacement will be....

The very high-value Kickstarter pledge's choice. For maybe half a page.

[137beth]

You weren't. Everyone has his right to rage a little about something he disagrees here. :smalltongue:



Exactly. They need at least temporary replacement, until/if Durkon returns. They cant rely on Potions alone.
Considering that there is no need for new characters, Celia or O-Chul probably. Or both? (considering that Belkster could kick the bucket soon.)

There. Im not only replacing Durkon, im killing Belkar too!
MUHAHAHAHAH!!!:xykon:

Think about how important Roy is to their strategies. Now consider that in the entire time Roy was dead, they never replaced him. Now ask yourself if you think they are going to replace Durkon with another character.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Why would you need Haley to use UMD? Elan can use the wands and scrolls since the spells are on his class list.

[Kish]

"The spells"?

Elan has a few weak healing spells on his class spell list. He cannot resurrect. He cannot remove negative levels. He cannot, with or without an unlimited number of those scrolls he can use, fill in for an actual cleric...or even for a character with enough Use Magic Device to fake being a cleric for more powerful scrolls.

[137beth]

Also,

1) Hilgya?
She didnt appear once after the first Linear Guild broke, and Giant had one oportunity to return her to the comic and didnt do that, so its very unlikely

This is completely wrong. Assuming you are referring to the cleric of Loki,


I think you're looking at the way I do things backwards.

I didn't have a role for a cleric of Loki, then have to choose whether to use a new unnamed character or go back and use an established one. I had a role for a new unnamed cleric, and then had to pick what god he worshipped. There's really only one god of the Northern (Norse) pantheon appropriate to a church working with a thieves' guild in a crime-dominated city, so it became Loki.

No connection was ever intended with any previous clerics of the same god; in fact, I didn't even think about Hilgya until the strips came out and people started speculating. If I had thought of the connection beforehand, the result would have been that I would have changed what god the new unnamed cleric worshipped (though I have no idea what I would have used instead), not that I would have mentioned or used Hilgya.

[Shale]

For reference, bards can cast any level of Cure X Wounds, and Mass Cure X Wounds up to Moderate. They cannot cast Heal, any spell to restore life to the dead, or - crucially at the moment - the Greater Restoration necessary to fix Belkar's blood loss.

[Yendor]

Furthermore, Elan is an arcane caster, and can't use divine scrolls whatever spells they may contain.

[AngryHobbit]

Think about how important Roy is to their strategies. Now consider that in the entire time Roy was dead, they never replaced him. Now ask yourself if you think they are going to replace Durkon with another character.

It is possible, not something that will 100% happen. And there is a small difference between him and Roy:
-They had a Cleric to resurrect Roy.
-Durkon's body is still moving.
-We still don't know what will Durkon become when he gets his free will back. He could become Evil, or Neutral at best. If there is someone who can become Neutral after becoming a vampire, it's this guy.
-Maybe, even if everything turns OK, he doesn't want to get resurrected. That way, his death would have bigger impact to the story.

And then again, maybe they will resurrect him. Or maybe there will be no replacement and no resurrection. There are endless possibilities.

[Carl]

That is really hard for me to read.

Sorry though the smiley use would make it easier to read, does for me. Fixed it for you anyway.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Sorry though the smiley use would make it easier to read, does for me. Fixed it for you anyway.

It wasn't the presence of smileys, exactly, it was the lack of line breaks.

[Carl]

Line breaks? Sorry if that's a dumb as hell question but AFAIK the normal definition of line breaks i did leave them, (if it makes it easier copy my prior post into spoiler tags and format it appropriately).

[Devonix]

It requires Knowing association- if Thanh suspects, but never confirms, that Belkar is Evil, he's probably safe.

Or rather, was- he's dead now.

Paladins are perfectly capable of working with evil party members as long as that paladin doesn't turn a blind eye and allow the person to do evil. As long as Belkster doesn't kill any random cart owners Ochul could work with him just fine.

[Wrecan]

Paladins are perfectly capable of working with evil party members
That is not true.

"a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm)"
-Paladin (under subsection, "Associates")

A paladin cannot knowingly associates with evil characters. However, as long as Belkar keeps his lead sheet handy, the paladins wouldn't necessarily "know" Belkar is evil.

[Living Oxymoron]

I think O-Chul is the only non-evil NPC that is badass enough to become a PC. (and I believe Belkar alignment will change until there) :smallbiggrin:

That said, I ask your opinion... can a NPC become a PC?

[elvengunner69]

I really don't want them to replace Durkon and hope he is 'cured' (destroyed/rez'd) but if they don't I vote they get a Cleric & Druid. A Wild Shape Druid could be fun!

[Wrecan]

On a side note and rampant speculation...

it would be awesome if evil-Durkon vampire returns to the dwarven homeland for a rampage, gets back together with Hilgya in a Twilight-style romance, only for Hilgya to realize that what she liked about Durkon was his good heart. So she stakes him, kills him, and resurrects him. Heck, she might even cast atonement for him!

[KillingAScarab]

On a side note and rampant speculation...Interesting. There's one small problem with that. How does an evil cleric cast an atonement spell to make a character good?

[ellindsey]

Interesting. There's one small problem with that. How does an evil cleric cast an atonement spell to make a character good?

Unless I'm missing something, the spell description doesn't say that the original alignment of the target has to be the same as the caster's alignment. If the spell is being cast to give the target the chance to change alignment, it has to be to the caster's alignment, but there seems to be no such restriction on casting Atonement to undo a magical change to alignment. Hilgya should in theory be able to cast Atonement to return Durkon to LG, even though she isn't.

[Wrecan]

Unless I'm missing something, the spell description doesn't say that the original alignment of the target has to be the same as the caster's alignment. If the spell is being cast to give the target the chance to change alignment, it has to be to the caster's alignment, but there seems to be no such restriction on casting Atonement to undo a magical change to alignment. Hilgya should in theory be able to cast Atonement to return Durkon to LG, even though she isn't.

Yep. That's just one of those wonderful quirks of the rules the Giant so enjoys mocking.

[zimmerwald1915]

However, as long as Belkar keeps his lead sheet handy, the paladins wouldn't necessarily "know" Belkar is evil.
Not possible. Niu has Belkar's lead sheet, unless she lost in while feeling from Redcloak.

[Wrecan]

I'm pretty sure he can pick up another lead sheet if he needs to.

[Kaulguard]

I wonder if Elan ever changed his spell selection like he discussed http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html. Never really heard of a bard being a healer, but my D&D 3.0+ experience is limited to NWN.

Yay! NWN is still my favorite game of all time. In fact, every time I read a run of OotS, I get the urge to log in to Arelith (NWN server - www.arelith.com) and take my Elven Wizard out for a spin (though she's about the same level as Vaarsuvius, I never get the sense that she's quite that powerful)

Anyway, plug over, I also think we have a couple hundred strips of Vampire Durkon (Count Durkula is awful, I won't use it) as a free-willed OotS cleric.

[Onyavar]

Durkon will be replaced by Durkon.

Anyway, plug over, I also think we have a couple hundred strips of Vampire Durkon (Count Durkula is awful, I won't use it) as a free-willed OotS cleric.

My thoughts exactly. I bet on Malacks death soon. He plans to free Durkon back in Bleedingham... it won't come to that. It will be massively more dramatic if Durkon is freed while fighting against the order, and then turns against the LG.

As Malack pointed out, regaining free will as a new evil vampire personality that was previously good and hating undead, will be very confusing for Durkon. Once Durkon has free will, WHAT is binding him to Tarquins guild? They're not a big happy family just because they're all evil. (Same as Team Evil.)

Durkon is still a dwarf, and defined by his extreme loyalty. His loyalties are to the dwarves (they threw him out of the North, as LE personality he will finally notice this), to Thor (he didn't help him in his hour of need, and being LE he can't worship Thor anymore) and to Roy (who never let him down).

Roy, on the other hand, is LG. He cared about Durkon, he won't abandon the dwarf just because his alignment and creature type has changed.
Joining the party as a LE dwarf vampire cleric - after Malack is killed - isn't out of the question for Durkon. ALso, being lawful, he knows how to behave and won't "accidentally" converting his party to vampires, as long as he gets his blood from *somewhere* else.

Roy had indulged Belkar all the time. Being a pragmatist, Roy will accept Durkon easily, especially since Durkon just got a lot stronger. Having a literal, lawful bloodsucker in the team; or keeping a chaotic bloody murderer under his control is pretty much the same.
All Roy needs to do is point LE Vamp-Durkon at the bad guys and hope for the best.
The others in the party will object more than Roy, but eventually accept:
- V is now trying to do good, and s/he has screwed up hirself.
- Haley and Elan will be worried, but eventually accepting.
- Belkars going to die anyway, and he's evil

[Wrecan]

Either way, I have a sinking suspicion that Malack will first teach Drukon his homebrewed Protection from Daylight spell.

[Onyavar]

Either way, I have a sinking suspicion that Malack will first teach Drukon his homebrewed Protection from Daylight spell.

Oh yeah, exactly. Should happen when they walk out to Tarquin.

[quasit]

Either way, I have a sinking suspicion that Malack will first teach Drukon his homebrewed Protection from Daylight spell.

...backdoor'd too? in case his "bro" gets too uppity... :smallamused:

[Obscure Blade]

I'm going with Vampire Durkon replacing Living Durkon, at least for quite some time. It would be a waste of potential to undo such a huge change quickly, and most of his reasons to work with the Order will still be there if he's free willed. He still won't want the world destroyed or Xykon ruling over it. Plus as said upthread, dwarves are inclined to loyalty, and he's loyal to Roy.



A vampire Durkon in the party? The dining jokes between him and Belkar would be fantastic. :smalltongue:I can see it now. Belkar feeding some enemy of the Order a gourmet meal...


Enemy: "Mmmm, this is great! Don't know why you offered me a free meal though..."

<Durkon pounces>

Belkar: "Flavoring!"

[Sorcery_01]

Durkon will replace Durkon.

Possibly Vampire Durkon will replace Durkon temporarily. Failing that, Durkon will replace Durkon once Vampire Durkon has been destroyed and resurrected.

yeah, and don't forget the prophecy that he would bring 'death and destruction' on his people the next time he would go home, so that gives us the possibility of vampire Durkon going back to the dwarven lands .

[Kornaki]

...backdoor'd too? in case his "bro" gets too uppity... :smallamused:

Delicious irony would be Durkon figuring it out and pulling the backdoor on Malack. I don't know how he would do figure it out, but I'm sure there's a spell on the cleric list (well, besides greater dispel magic)

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't know how he would do figure it out, but I'm sure there's a spell on the cleric list (well, besides greater dispel magic)
There's no need for a spell, he'd just have to make his Spellcraft check this time around. Him doing so is likelier than one might think. The Vampire template boosts his intelligence, and knowing that Malack likes to work backdoors into his custom spells would probably give him a circumstance bonus to spot one...if it exists. Given this is a ward Malack created and prepares for himself, it might not.

[Wrecan]

Given this is a ward Malack created and prepares for himself, it might not.

But if his "children" were also clerics, he might have had a backdoor installed.

[faustin]

yeah, and don't forget the prophecy that he would bring 'death and destruction' on his people the next time he would go home, so that gives us the possibility of vampire Durkon going back to the dwarven lands .

One question: if a vampire is killed and then resurrected into the person who used to be... is that person morally or legally culprit of the vampire´s crimes?:smallconfused:

[drexx]

Maybe Durkon can sire a Dhampir?

[Minitroll]

Maybe one of the party members can multiclass to cleric...
And I know just the person. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html)