The Only Plot Hole in OOTS!

[Sunken Valley]

In This Comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html) Roy accuses Xykon of murdering Master Fyron and his son. Okay.

However, in Start of Darkness, Eugene tells Roy the story of that incident and no son is mentioned or seen. That's fine, we know Rich hadn't finalised the plot when he wrote 110.

But Look in Panel 8! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) Roy clearly mentions a son. After Start of Darkness. So we know he didn't hear from Eugene.

Where does this son come from! Plot Hole!

Although, it has been 9.5 years with no other plot holes so that's pretty good going.

[Dust]

All I'm really getting from this is that Eugene didn't bother to mention a wizard's son....who, since Eugene was the apprentice and not Fyron's own flesh-and-blood, was probably some filthy martial class instead.

Seems perfectly normal to me.

[Olinser]

All I'm really getting from this is that Eugene didn't bother to mention a wizard's son....who, since Eugene was the apprentice and not Fyron's own flesh-and-blood, was probably some filthy martial class instead.

Seems perfectly normal to me.

Yeah, I was kind of under the impression the son had either been killed off-panel before Xykon and Fyron went at it, or the son tried to avenge his father and Xykon killed him.

[Sunken Valley]

All I'm really getting from this is that Eugene didn't bother to mention a wizard's son....who, since Eugene was the apprentice and not Fyron's own flesh-and-blood, was probably some filthy martial class instead.

Seems perfectly normal to me.

So how does Roy know?

[Kish]

Uh. Where does the son come from? Well, you see, when Master Fyron and a woman--

[JackRackham]

Roy is a psychic. It is known.

[Domino Quartz]

Roy is a psychic. It is known.

I thought he was a future psychic.

[TheYell]

Giant should draw a strip where Roy has a flashback to a stranger buying him a drink and explaining he is Fyron's son, when he's shot in the back by a goblin archer who flees in a coach with Xykon's livery.

Hole closed.

[Gift Jeraff]

Roy is a psychic. It is known.

A future psychic, to be precise. So Fyron, Jr. hasn't been killed yet.

[Peelee]

*snip*
Master Fyron's son.
*snip*

First, if this WAS an error, it's a continuity issue, not a plot hole. Whether or not the son exists has no bearing on the rest of the plot; therefor, it cannot be a plot hole. Second, the story is not over. Once we reach the end and it has not been resolved, I'll agree that it's probably a mistake of some kind. Until then, we have no way of knowing if it even IS an error.

Take Malak drinking tea on the balcony with Durkon. A week ago, before we knew of Malak's vampirism, one could have said, "Plot hole! Malack needs a special diet, which is unable to be served at a dinner party. How is he able to drink tea? If tea was his special diet, he would have been able to be at the dinner with Elan and Tarquin!" This would have the same validity as your theory, because again, the story is not yet over. There was information not yet revealed to us that explains it. Which could easily be the case with Fyron's son.

[Sunken Valley]

A future psychic, to be precise. So Fyron, Jr. hasn't been killed yet.

So Roy is accusing Xykon of future crime? Maybe Miko and Roy are a good match after all!

[hamishspence]

The Giant on plot holes:



And finally, something is not a "plot hole" if one can reasonably come up with a plausible explanation for it using just the information given in the work itself, even if I don't spell out that explanation in the text. Not every reaction that every character has is going to be explained in explicit detail. It's possible to draw your own conclusions based on what you know about them as people rather than assuming that the author made an error of some kind.

[JackRackham]

A future psychic, to be precise. So Fyron, Jr. hasn't been killed yet.

Actually, he's both. Remember that Elan labeled him a psychic (mind-reader) first, then labeled him a future psychic when he said Elan was picturing him choking Elan and THEN it happened. So, he's both. He simply read his father's or Xykon's mind (probably his father's, as Liches are immune to mind-affecting stuff.

[ThePhantasm]

This isn't a plot hole. Its just an "unknown."

[NerdyKris]

Indeed. I wouldn't call this a plot hole or a continuity error due to the fact that, as the OP shows, it's very clear that it was left out of SOD intentionally, since it was brought back up in the strip shortly after. (That month or so)

The Eugene/Roy conversation was already shown in an obviously censored context in Origin of PCs. There could be a reason for why Eugene left Fyron son out of the story, or that portion wasn't shown because it would spoil something. (For instance, some meta knowledge we the readers know that Roy wouldn't.)

There's a lot of mystery surrounding that incident. Why would Xykon really break in just to steal a crown when anyone could have made one for him? Why did the crown really cause the holder to appear as evil to a detect evil spell? Yeah, Durkon came up with an explanation, but is it correct? Why would Xykon even recognize it out of every other crown in existence when what he thought was a random mercenary attacked him if it wasn't anything special?

Granted, it really could just be a normal, non magical crown. But there's a good chance that incident is going to have more impact on the story than we think.

[SoC175]

Didn't the conversation between Roy and his father blank out for some time, we did see only a very small part of it on panel.

[Dr. Gamera]

I get it! In OOTS #309 (My Dinner with Elan) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html), Haley says "Yrhw, nc cgfwb dgc N uhv wdc ay yqhlcrv mkhc vdg mdgre lhrr --" But Elan cut off the rest of the sentence.

The rest of what she was going to say was: "-- bnwpry! N'u uhffnye cd Cvfdw Zglyagltry. N mhb nw rdjy mnck knu, agc ky rysc uy cd kgwc Qvtdw cd hjywpy knb shckyf Svfdw'b eyhck. Qvtdw tnrrye Cvfdw, hwe ckyw Cvfdw mhb fybgffylcye. N mhb bd djyflduy mnck yudcndw ckhc N sddrnbkrv uhffnye knu. N khjyw'c byyw knu bnwly."

[Cizak]

I get it! In OOTS #309 (My Dinner with Elan) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html), Haley says "Yrhw, nc cgfwb dgc N uhv wdc ay yqhlcrv mkhc vdg mdgre lhrr --" But Elan cut off the rest of the sentence.

The rest of what she was going to say was: "-- bnwpry! N'u uhffnye cd Cvfdw Zglyagltry. N mhb nw rdjy mnck knu, agc ky rysc uy cd kgwc Qvtdw cd hjywpy knb shckyf Svfdw'b eyhck. Qvtdw tnrrye Cvfdw, hwe ckyw Cvfdw mhb fybgffylcye. N mhb bd djyflduy mnck yudcndw ckhc N sddrnbkrv uhffnye knu. N khjyw'c byyw knu bnwly."

Anyone wanna, 'cause I'm not gonna.

[Procyonpi]

This has been pointed out several times before. Rich has acknowledged the inconsistency but not explained it.

[Dr. Gamera]

Anyone wanna, 'cause I'm not gonna.

With this much text, the online cryptogram solvers work very well. But for your convenience:
"-- single! I'm married to Tyron Pucebuckle. I was in love with him, but he left me to hunt Xykon to avenge his father Fyron's death. Xykon killed Tyron, and then Tyron was resurrected. I was so overcome with emotion that I foolishly married him. I haven't seen him since."

[SaintRidley]

A future psychic, to be precise. So Fyron, Jr. hasn't been killed yet.

Or perhaps he has and Roy isn't just a future psychic. He's a past psychic too.

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

I get it! In OOTS #309 (My Dinner with Elan) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html), Haley says "Yrhw, nc cgfwb dgc N uhv wdc ay yqhlcrv mkhc vdg mdgre lhrr --" But Elan cut off the rest of the sentence.

The rest of what she was going to say was: "-- bnwpry! N'u uhffnye cd Cvfdw Zglyagltry. N mhb nw rdjy mnck knu, agc ky rysc uy cd kgwc Qvtdw cd hjywpy knb shckyf Svfdw'b eyhck. Qvtdw tnrrye Cvfdw, hwe ckyw Cvfdw mhb fybgffylcye. N mhb bd djyflduy mnck yudcndw ckhc N sddrnbkrv uhffnye knu. N khjyw'c byyw knu bnwly."



Anyone wanna, 'cause I'm not gonna.




Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call --"
"-- single! I'm married to Tyron Pucebuckle. I was in love with him, but he left me to hunt Xykon to avenge his father Fyron's death. Xykon killed Tyron, and then Tyron was resurrected. I was so overcome with emotion that I foolishly married him. I haven't seen him since."


Handy cypher tools... and knowing Haley's original message... :smalltongue:


EditT: Damn ninjas...

[Cirrylius]

Roy is a psychic. It is known.

It is known.

[NerdyKris]

Didn't the conversation between Roy and his father blank out for some time, we did see only a very small part of it on panel.

Yes, in Origin of PCs. In Start of Darkness, we see the two blanked out sections, since they involve a lot of Xykon stuff and Eugene backstory that wasn't really relevent in Origin.

However, there is a possibility that the son dying was mentioned in another conversation, or after that conversation, or hadn't happened at the time of the conversation.

[ti'esar]

This has always puzzled me - it has to be deliberate, but I can't possibly imagine how it might actually be relevant.

[Winter]

This always has puzzled me a very bit. Eugene claimed to be some sort of surrogate son of Fyron and we'd have to assume he was friends with the son as well.

But it has not puzzled me that much. Maybe Eugene "knew" the son but was no real friend. And I think Xykon killing someone else on his shopping spree in Fyron's library is not that hard to imagine.

I assume the son just got written in "back then" but was not really integral to the story so he got left out. Xykon killed him as well, so what? I do not think it is a plot hole or even "an issue" but just a "bit awkward" he never showed up (dead) or got mentioned again.

[Cizak]

Or perhaps he has and Roy isn't just a future psychic. He's a past psychic too.

http://images.politico.com/global/click/091119_shyamalan_ap_392_regular.jpg

[Dr.Epic]

Although, it has been 9.5 years with no other plot holes so that's pretty good going.

Really? 'Cause I can name another: how the heck is Roy LG after this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html)? Or this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0204.html)?

[hamishspence]

Roy's Deva provides an answer for the first one- he learned his lesson:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html

[Cizak]

Really? 'Cause I can name another: how the heck is Roy LG after this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html)? Or this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0204.html)?

Because this. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html)

[Morty]

It's funny that you link to the very strip which makes it not a plot hole. If Fyron's son had been mentioned once in #110 and then never mentioned again, including Start of Darkness, then it might be called a plot hole, albeit a completely insignificant one. But the mention of Fyron's son further down in the storyline makes it so it's an open issue, not a plothole. Well, unless you considered Roy's brother a plot hole until we saw him in the afterlife.

[Chantelune]

Or maybe Roy misunderstood his father on some points and think that Fyron had a son that Xykon murdered when they never was. Roy is just mistaking and given how "great" is Xykon memory, he barely remember the whole thing in that much details. Frankly, what's the difference beetween kiling one or two people for him ? :smallamused:

[Dr. Gamera]

More seriously (in comparison with my Haley-secret joke), after "bloodwart" turned out to be significant, rather than a misspelling, I assume by default that anything appearing to be a plot hole, a loose thread, a red herring, or a misspelling is in fact a key plot point that we just either haven't figured out yet or don't have enough information about yet.

[XxXU2XxX]

More seriously (in comparison with my Haley-secret joke), after "bloodwart" turned out to be significant, rather than a misspelling, I assume by default that anything appearing to be a plot hole, a loose thread, a red herring, or a misspelling is in fact a key plot point that we just either haven't figured out yet or don't have enough information about yet.

This. So much this.

[TopCheese]

The Snarl got the kid and erased him from the reality, now he has merged with the snarl and created the planet in the rift so that it may serve as a prison for Xykon when the Kid/Snarl hybrid gets a chance to grab Xykon.

What's on the planet? A million copies of Fyron that work at a million StarBucks coffee houses and are immune to everything Xykon can dish out. The other ppl that got "killed" by the snarl are now copied a million times so that each has a copy in said starbucks where they are enjoying their coffee.

[deworde]

This has been pointed out several times before. Rich has acknowledged the inconsistency but not explained it.

I don't see this in the Index of the Giant's Comments... I spy shenanigans!

[deworde]

This. So much this.


Yes, but that leads to this kind of thinking...

[SaintRidley]

More seriously (in comparison with my Haley-secret joke), after "bloodwart" turned out to be significant, rather than a misspelling, I assume by default that anything appearing to be a plot hole, a loose thread, a red herring, or a misspelling is in fact a key plot point that we just either haven't figured out yet or don't have enough information about yet.

Soon's paladins aren't fascist, but facist - prejudiced against the faces of the Draketooth clan?

[martianmister]

Does this means that "Facism" is a real ideology? (Panel two (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) and eight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0814.html)) :smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

Belkar spells it the other way here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html

[SaintRidley]

Belkar spells it the other way here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html

Clearly Belkar is describing a different ideology from the face-based prejudice seen above.

[M.A.D]

I thought he was a future psychic.

Clearly, Roy foresaw the future where he reads an unedited draft of a fast-forwarded flashback told in a prequel where master Fyron's son was mentioned

[SaintRidley]

Clearly, Roy foresaw the future where he reads an unedited draft of a fast-forwarded flashback told in a prequel where master Fyron's son was mentioned

Random and silly speculation - Fyron's son died doing something completely unrelated and never even met Xykon. Roy (and Eugene?) just assume he died because of Xykon because Xykon.

Turns out he fell on dice while rolling for HP or something. Maybe he went to the Western Continent and got killed by Tarquin's people. Who knows.

[Sniffnoy]

Or maybe Roy just misremembered there being a son in the tale.

[Redgoblin]

Well, why do you think Xykon can't remember killing Fyron and his son...

[Domino Quartz]

Well, why do you think Xykon can't remember killing Fyron and his son...

It was Tuesday? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButForMeItWasTuesday)

Yes, I know it was actually Laundry night, not necessarily Tuesday.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Or maybe Roy just misremembered there being a son in the tale.
How does someone invent an entirely new character in a story by accident? I can understand omitting a character but fabricating a nonexistent son doesn't make any sense.

That said, wouldn't it be awesome if Fyron's son turns out to be some bizarre psionic plot to make Eugene (and/or Roy) believe that there was another victim who never actually existed (to what end, I have no idea)?

[Dr.Epic]

Roy's Deva provides an answer for the first one- he learned his lesson:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html

Learning your lesson means you are ignorant or unaware of the correct answer. You're honestly telling me the smartest member of the Order was too dumb what to do when an ally taken by hostile forces?


Because this. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html)

How was Roy trying to be LG when he abandoned his loyal comrades?:smallconfused:

Another plothole: How did Ochul survive a massive explosion and a several hundred foot drop when Miko, a higher level character, was torn in half from the same distance and didn't even take any falling damage?

Further plothole: In the Dungeon of Dorukan, Roy with his armor was too heavy to be carried by the other remaining 5 Order members. Yet Haley - the rogue - and Belkar - the halfling - were able to lift him during the Battle of Azure City.

[deworde]

Another plothole: How did Ochul survive a massive explosion and a several hundred foot drop when Miko, a higher level character, was torn in half from the same distance and didn't even take any falling damage?

Not a plothole. As shown later, O-Chul has a constitution in the mid-20's. He took on an Acid-Breathing Shark and survived. He can endure more than almost anyone else. Doesn't make him the best fighter, but he's a lot tougher than Miko.



Further plothole: In the Dungeon of Dorukan, Roy with his armor was too heavy to be carried by the other remaining 5 Order members. Yet Haley - the rogue - and Belkar - the halfling - were able to lift him during the Battle of Azure City.
Levelling up.

[Dr.Epic]

Not a plothole. As shown later, O-Chul has a constitution in the mid-20's. He took on an Acid-Breathing Shark and survived. He can endure more than almost anyone else. Doesn't make him the best fighter, but he's a lot tougher than Miko.

A massive explosion that tore Miko in half AND DESTROYED A LARGE CASTLE, and several hundred feet falling?



Levelling up.

So leveling? Yeah, I'm sure Hailey the rogue put lots of points into strength and Belkar, who's small and thus has a lower carrying capacity as well as a racial -2 to strength, did something they couldn't do before with 3 other people helping - one of whom was a dwarf!

[Flame of Anor]

Turns out he fell on dice

Heh heh, he died.


A massive explosion that tore Miko in half AND DESTROYED A LARGE CASTLE, and several hundred feet falling?

So leveling? Yeah, I'm sure Hailey the rogue put lots of points into strength and Belkar, who's small and thus has a lower carrying capacity as well as a racial -2 to strength, did something they couldn't do before with 3 other people helping - one of whom was a dwarf!

This is not a plot hole! Nothing in this thread is a real plot hole. It's just a minor inconsistency, like everything else people have mentioned.

Besides, I don't even see where it says the Order couldn't carry Roy, just that they didn't. It would mean the Order had unbelievably low stats, anyway.

[Bastian Weaver]

A massive explosion that tore Miko in half AND DESTROYED A LARGE CASTLE, and several hundred feet falling?

Yes. O-Chul is that tough.



So leveling? Yeah, I'm sure Hailey the rogue put lots of points into strength and Belkar, who's small and thus has a lower carrying capacity as well as a racial -2 to strength, did something they couldn't do before with 3 other people helping - one of whom was a dwarf!

Actually, I think I saw something about that... oh, yeah.


There are no hard-and-fast stats for the characters. I find that if I were to ever commit exact stats to paper, I would feel limited in what I could have these characters do in the future. For example, I might want to make a strip spoofing a particular feat, only to find that I didn.t give it to any of my characters. As a result, there will never be official game statistics for Roy, Elan, and the rest.

[Dr.Epic]

This is not a plot hole! Nothing in this thread is a real plot hole.

Just like "nothing" in the Star Wars prequels were plotholes?:smallwink::smalltongue:


It's just a minor inconsistency, like everything else people have mentioned.

Inconsistency=plothole

Hate to burst your bubble.


Besides, I don't even see where it says the Order couldn't carry Roy, just that they didn't.

Right here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html):smalltongue:


It would mean the Order had unbelievably low stats, anyway.

Dude, everyone in the Order DOES have unbelievably low stats.


Yes. O-Chul is that tough.

Ha! Ha! No!:smallannoyed:


Actually, I think I saw something about that... oh, yeah.

It's not a matter of the Giant statting his characters. It's a matter of common sense: You get one ability score point every 4 levels. Belkar has a multiclassing penalty. How much experience points would Belkar have to earn to level up to put enough points into strength to be able to lift someone he couldn't life before with the help of 3 people not present?

[Flame of Anor]

Inconsistency=plothole

Hate to burst your bubble.

All plot holes are inconsistencies, but not all inconsistencies are plot holes. Just because an event is unexplained does not make it a plot hole, especially if it is as trivial as most of these are.



Dude, everyone in the Order DOES have unbelievably low stats.

Ha! Ha! No! :smallannoyed:

Roy and Durkon have at least 20 STR. Roy has good mental stats. Vaarsuvius has a delicious 18 INT. Durkon has at least a 19 WIS. Elan has at least a 22 CHA. Haley has a 20-21 DEX. And that's before their stat-improving magic items. Don't believe me? Check the Geekery thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253978)



Ha! Ha! No!:smallannoyed:

This is a fantasy setting! Things happen which would not happen in real life! The only way that O-Chul's survival would be a plot hole is if he were somewhere else shown to be frail, or if characters were held to real-life limits of physical capability, which they are not, as it is fantasy.

[Bravo]

Learning your lesson means you are ignorant or unaware of the correct answer. You're honestly telling me the smartest member of the Order was too dumb what to do when an ally taken by hostile forces?

How was Roy trying to be LG when he abandoned his loyal comrades?:smallconfused:He wasn't. He wasn't TRYING to be anything at all, he was just exasperated with Elan's incompetence and one could almost say that he failed a Will check with a high DC. However, the point is that when he had time to think about it, and came to the conclusion that he had been wrong, he didn't say "oh well, I guess I fouled up there", he actively took steps to fix it. There's nothing more he could have done to make amends. It's at THAT point that it's clear to see that he was TRYING.


Another plothole: How did Ochul survive a massive explosion and a several hundred foot drop when Miko, a higher level character, was torn in half from the same distance and didn't even take any falling damage?Maybe he rolled a better save. But seriously, I don't think she was TORN in half, I think she was CUT in half. Since she was carrying a katana and the explosion happened in mid-swing for her, it doesn't seem like a stretch that the blast made her mess up the follow-through and bisect herself. The katana was nowhere in the frame when next we saw her, so it probably got blown out of her hands and through her. As for O-Chul not taking fall damage, I'm not sure. Could be that Xykon's Paralyzing Touch is capable of making the victim as dense and tough as steel? If not, then you have a point there. I suppose the difference between his fall and Roy's fall is that Roy had just taken a Meteor Swarm to the face, and so he didn't have enough HP to survive, but O-Chul was completely untouched until the explosion, so he took significant damage but had enough left to survive.


Further plothole: In the Dungeon of Dorukan, Roy with his armor was too heavy to be carried by the other remaining 5 Order members. Yet Haley - the rogue - and Belkar - the halfling - were able to lift him during the Battle of Azure City.Better stats and equipment? Also, don't forget that Vaarsuvius had doled out a SWATHE of Potions of Heroism.

[Emanick]

A massive explosion that tore Miko in half AND DESTROYED A LARGE CASTLE, and several hundred feet falling?




So leveling? Yeah, I'm sure Hailey the rogue put lots of points into strength and Belkar, who's small and thus has a lower carrying capacity as well as a racial -2 to strength, did something they couldn't do before with 3 other people helping - one of whom was a dwarf!

Remember, part of the castle actually fell on Miko; that's what ends up cutting her in half. O'chul was "merely" hurtled through the air: for all we know, all he took was 20d6 falling damage.

Also, you're forgetting that the Order likely had far less carrying capacity in the Dungeon of Dorukan - where they were lower level and hadn't been to a town in ages, so were probably loaded down with coins and the like. I don't think Roy would have suggested that the party ditch a substantial amount of its loot just so that they could have more adventuring encounters that day before stopping to rest.

Haley and Belkar, on the other hand, are almost certainly only carrying light loads when they go to pick up Roy. That makes a big difference.

[KoboldRevenge]

My God.
You've just discovered the ending/death of Xykon.
Fryon's son will appear from the shadows at Xykon's weakest moment, and strike him down. :smallamused:

[Psyren]

Really? 'Cause I can name another: how the heck is Roy LG after this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html)? Or this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0204.html)?

Er, that second one is pretty LG to me. Any paladin would berate his party in the same way.

[rodneyAnonymous]

This is not a hole, just possibly as-yet-unresolved. Do we know what Roy's Archon was talking about?

Roy: "Roy's Archon, do you remember what I need you to do once I'm gone?"
Roy's Archon: "Yes. I have no idea if it will work, but I know what to do." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html)

[isoriveil]

Er, that second one is pretty LG to me. Any paladin would berate his party in the same way.

Paladin of Lastai? Or of some god of boning?

[FlawedParadigm]

It is known.

Valar morghulis.

[Flame of Anor]

Remember, part of the castle actually fell on Miko; that's what ends up cutting her in half.

Yes, exactly. It's the back of the throne, in fact, which bisects her.


Valar morghulis.

Valar dohaeris.

[hamishspence]

Learning your lesson means you are ignorant or unaware of the correct answer. You're honestly telling me the smartest member of the Order was too dumb what to do when an ally taken by hostile forces?

The lesson was "don't abandon your ally just because you personally dislike them"

A lesson he actually tried to teach others, in Origin of PCs. Maybe he hadn't completely learned it himself?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html

Roy's Deva actually uses those words "There's a lot to be said for learning your lesson before you died, rather than trying to backpedal now."

[Bravo]

Paladin of Lastai? Or of some god of boning?

Just because Belkar suspects that to be his motive does not make that his motive. Due to his LG nature he could not in good conscience attempt to kill her once he realized she was one of the good guys. His finding her attractive merely made the decision easier.