[PF] Dazing Spell and Acid Arrow

[jaybird]

How does passing a subsequent round Will save on a Dazing Acid Arrow work? Are you still dazed for the original duration without renewing the effect, or does the character stop being dazed immediately?

[Squirrel_Dude]

I would think that a saving throw on a will save after the initial damage would only prevent the character from becoming dazed for even longer.


E.G.
First round: Saving throw failed, dazed for 2 rounds
Second round: Saving throw passed, still dazed for 1 round
Third round: Saving throw passed, no longer dazed.
Fourth round: Saving throw failed, dazed for 2 rounds.

[Zanthy1]

I would think that a saving throw on a will save after the initial damage would only prevent the character from becoming dazed for even longer.


E.G.
First round: Saving throw failed, dazed for 2 rounds
Second round: Saving throw passed, still dazed for 1 round
Third round: Saving throw passed, no longer dazed.
Fourth round: Saving throw failed, dazed for 2 rounds.

This makes total sense to me, I must include that I am still learning Pathfinder, but unlike 3.5, a lot of its content seems to lean towards the practical lol

[Squirrel_Dude]

This makes total sense to me, I must include that I am still learning Pathfinder, but unlike 3.5, a lot of its content seems to lean towards the practical lolJust like with 3.5, the more of it you read and look into it, the less that becomes true...

E.G. Necromancy is still treated as the evil red-haired step child of magic for no adequately explained reason. Many of the spells have an evil alignment, and the school doesn't have any healing spells, even though it's the school of life and death. Undead are still just evil, because.

Also see:
- Gun crafting rules
- Some of the new equipment in Ultimate Combat (Armor without AC penalties or spell failure chances)
- Synthesist Summoners
- The terrible terrible boat statistics
- Archetypes that receive feats that don't exist when a book is published (*cough* Tettori Monk *cough*)

... I'm not a huge fan of Ultimate Combat in general.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Just like with 3.5, the more of it you read and look into it, the less that becomes true...

E.G. Necromancy is still treated as the evil red-haired step child of magic for no adequately explained reason. Many of the spells have an evil alignment, and the school doesn't have any healing spells, even though it's the school of life and death. Undead are still just evil, because.


Maybe Paizo aren't fans of Twilight and sparkly undead fiends... er, friends?

Necromancy... never really read a novel yet where "good" chose to play with dead bodies. : /




To the question at hand... I don't see a constant Daze Arrow one trick pony is fair.

[avr]

It's a nasty stunlock, but almost anything you'd be likely to use this on would be as good, continuing damage or not. Magic Missile or Stone Call or Burning Gaze for example. The metamagic may be too good especially if you have a trait to reduce the spell level increase.

[jaybird]

The metamagic may be too good especially if you have two traits to reduce the spell level increase.

In fairness, I'm the GM, and I'll be telling my players explicitly to munchkinize their characters :smallamused:

[avr]

People call it Caster Edition, after all. Have fun.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Maybe Paizo aren't fans of Twilight and sparkly undead fiends... er, friends?Doesn't have to do with that. It has to do with the simple question: What makes the use of a corpse to create a mindless servant evil? Is it still evil if someone gives you permission to use their corpse after they died (see Dustmen)?

Why are vampire spawn evil?
Why is being a Lich evil? It doesn't tell you what becoming a Lich entails. It
just tells you that: If you become a Lich, you are evil.
Why is a ghoul evil? They're people turned into mindless creatures against their will that have to feed off of meat to survive, sometimes human meat. They're practically animals.

I'm not really even asking for a definitive answer. I'm just asking for at least some discussion on the issue on the part of the game developer because I'm so tired of having this argument with any player who wants to be undead/have undead in the game/etc. etc.


On healing: The thing is, the healing magic isn't just important for helping humans. It's one of the tools provided to damage and attack undead. Why does Necromancy, the school of controlling undead, not have this tool?

[Spuddles]

Goddamn that's a neat trick.


People call it Caster Edition, after all. Have fun.

An unfair characterization. The floor has been raised a bit, but that mostly helps low level wizards. d6 HD and at will cantrips mean jack-all compared to 3.5's shapechange, incantatrix, or surge of fortune.

Haters gon' hate, but that's all it really is. Most of the PF criticism is groundless.

[Logic]

Goddamn that's a neat trick.

An unfair characterization. The floor has been raised a bit, but that mostly helps low level wizards. d6 HD and at will cantrips mean jack-all compared to 3.5's shapechange, incantatrix, or surge of fortune.

Haters gon' hate, but that's all it really is. Most of the PF criticism is groundless.

I disagree, most of the criticism that can be levied at Pathfinder is not unique to Pathfinder, but is an error or omission on the part of the D20 system in general.