How to get +2 base fort save without loosing casting level

[ahenobarbi]

I wanted to build an Wizard/Ur-priest/Mystic Theurge. But I want to use it in an actual game, before level 10. So Easiest build Wiz 9/Ur 1/ MT 9 won't really work for me (it gets to the Ur-priest too late).

The most prerequisites are easy
- Evil alignement isn't a problem.
- Skills are easy to get by level 5.
- Two feats are easy by level 3.

But is it possible to get +3 base Fort save by level 5, on wizard, without loosing casting level? I could go Monk 1/ Wizard 4/ Ur-priest 1/Mystic Theurge 9/ Something 5 but it seems so wasteful.

[A_S]

Mindbender is trivial to enter at level 6, and has a high fort save (along with being one of the best 1 level dips in the game, for mindsight). Wiz 5/Mindbender1/Ur-priest 1/MT 9 is delayed one level compared to your monk build, but a lot better than the Wiz 9/Ur 1/MT 9 progression, and it doesn't lose a caster level.

[ahenobarbi]

Thank you :smallsmile:

[JohnDaBarr]

You can always take the Great Fortitude feat

[A_S]

Bonuses from feats do not contribute to "base save," which is what is referenced in Ur-Priest's prerequisites.

[Chilingsworth]

Umm... don't you need a 2nd level in Ur Priest to get the 2nd level spells for MT?

[A_S]

Good point, yes. Woo copypasta.

[Keld Denar]

UrPriest2 is made of win anyway. Rebuke Undead to power Persistomancy is worth a caster level loss. There are ways you can DMM arcane spells, or just be a NaenHoon Illumian.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

What level will you be starting at? Since losing 2 caster levels to UR-Priest is mandatory you will be a spell level behind on the arcane side you might consider getting into Ur-Priest ASAP so you can have appropriate (Character level/2) spells if you start at level 10.

Oh, here's a link to some builds by my brother and I built along a similar concept with Binding thrown in we call the Blasphemancer.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6739.0;wap2

[ahenobarbi]

Umm... don't you need a 2nd level in Ur Priest to get the 2nd level spells for MT?

There are ways around that (sanctum spell, earth spell, versatile spell caster). And since I'm not allowed DMM I think I will want to use them.


What level will you be starting at? Since losing 2 caster levels to UR-Priest is mandatory you will be a spell level behind on the arcane side you might consider getting into Ur-Priest ASAP so you can have appropriate (Character level/2) spells if you start at level 10.

Level 9. If I went human I could increase my CL for some spells with a feat to qualify for Mindbender after level 4 (maybe, I'll have to check with DM).

Wizard 4/Mindbender 1/Ur-priest 1/Mystic theurge 3

Would get casting as Wizard 8 and Ur-priest 4. One spell level behind on both (for now).


Oh, here's a link to some builds by my brother and I built along a similar concept with Binding thrown in we call the Blasphemancer.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6739.0;wap2

Thanks but I don't have access to Tome of Magic so no binding for me.

[Fable Wright]

You can't get into Mindbender at level 4, even with caster level boosts. You need 4 ranks in 4 cross-class skills, and you don't have the feats to spare, even with Human, to get them all as class skills for early entry with the caster level boost. Though, you really have to take the level in Mindbender, not just for the fortitude save, but also because Bluff is a class skill for the Ur-Priest, and you need 6 ranks in it to enter. Without Bluff as a class skill for Mindbender, you're unable to enter the class until level 9. Which, for some reason, a lot of people ignore about Ur-Priest...

[Deophaun]

How to get +2 base fort save without loosing casting level
Tie it down with a really good Use Rope check first.

[ahenobarbi]

You can't get into Mindbender at level 4, even with caster level boosts. You need 4 ranks in 4 cross-class skills, and you don't have the feats to spare, even with Human, to get them all as class skills for early entry with the caster level boost. Though, you really have to take the level in Mindbender, not just for the fortitude save, but also because Bluff is a class skill for the Ur-Priest, and you need 6 ranks in it to enter. Without Bluff as a class skill for Mindbender, you're unable to enter the class until level 9. Which, for some reason, a lot of people ignore about Ur-Priest...

Ouch. You're right. Well Wizard 5 has some nice goodies that will make the delay a bit sweeter.


Tie it down with a really good Use Rope check first.

:smallconfused:

[Khatoblepas]

You can't get into Mindbender at level 4, even with caster level boosts. You need 4 ranks in 4 cross-class skills, and you don't have the feats to spare, even with Human, to get them all as class skills for early entry with the caster level boost. Though, you really have to take the level in Mindbender, not just for the fortitude save, but also because Bluff is a class skill for the Ur-Priest, and you need 6 ranks in it to enter. Without Bluff as a class skill for Mindbender, you're unable to enter the class until level 9. Which, for some reason, a lot of people ignore about Ur-Priest...

UA Social Proficiency ACF?


Social Proficiency (Ex)

Enchanters using this variant are as proficient at manipulating others through mundane means as they are at influencing their minds magically. Add the following skills to the character's list of wizard class skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive. The enchanter also gains a +2 competence bonus on checks involving one of these skills (player's choice) every five levels (5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th). This bonus can only be applied once to each skill.

An enchanter using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard.

Now you can enter whenever you have the caster level!