Is this a good item.

[fishjam]

Hi giants and that.

Im planning on giving the players a magic item that is the equivillent of a shop, a super shop thats portable and full of any item they need.. for a price.

Kind of like a genie in a lamp, only a shop owner who can get or make anyhting they need, for the right amount of gold. Obviously.

Im hoping other people can tell me if this is a good idea or not.

any thoughts would be appreciated. and any refinements. Its DND/pathfinder so thats the context of this item.

[GAThraawn]

Hi giants and that.

Im planning on giving the players a magic item that is the equivillent of a shop, a super shop thats portable and full of any item they need.. for a price.

Kind of like a genie in a lamp, only a shop owner who can get or make anyhting they need, for the right amount of gold. Obviously.

Im hoping other people can tell me if this is a good idea or not.

any thoughts would be appreciated. and any refinements. Its DND/pathfinder so thats the context of this item.

In theory it should be fine, so long as you are prepared for the can of worms you are opening. Players can get very creative when you give them access to "anything". There are some items that are supposed to be highly rare and difficult to acquire as a restriction on their high power: unless you sell them for far more gold than your players can reasonably acquire without completing adventures, you may find their power level rising very rapidly.
Be prepared for get-rich-quick schemes (or get rich slowly schemes, a la "Nothing important is happening right now, lets all spend the next ten years making Profession skill checks and then spend that money in this shop!"), as money will be of even greater importance now that there's literally nothing it can't buy.
Also be prepared for the opposite end of the spectrum, now that they have access to unlimited amount of cheap items, like daggers, caltrops, simple potions, etc. I guarantee you won't be able to come up with all the possible tactics your players could use, given access to nearly limitless numbers of the cheapest items in the book.

So, yup, if you're fine and ready for all that, sounds fine.

[Slipperychicken]

If this is dnd 3.5, and your players are savvy, beware. They can vastly improve their effectiveness by buying the right scroll at the right time. Same goes for single-charge wands.

[Rhynn]

If this is dnd 3.5, and your players are savvy, beware. They can vastly improve their effectiveness by buying the right scroll at the right time. Same goes for single-charge wands.

Yeah, I'd say make it more of a procurer than a warehouse. "We need a potion of cure disease!" "Sure, that'll be one day..."

[geeky_monkey]

A word of warning – don’t make it a shop that appears on request.

A DM gave my party an item that did that and we abused the heck out of it.

We used it for cover from ranged attacks, made it appear in front of a charging minotaur (who dazed itself when it ran into a building that hadn’t been there a second earlier), used it to stop the walls during the traditional “the walls are moving” trap.

And on one memorable occasion summoned it in midair and dropped a house on a witch, Dorothy Gale style.

In the end it was destroyed when we used it as a bridge to cross a river of lava when fleeing from a p*ssed off dragon we’d just robbed blind.

[Oaktree0]

If I was gming this game I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than give my players something like this, but it's your call. It's all in the feel of the game you want to give your players. You want a Resident Evil 4 style of "Hey cewl, there's a shop I can sell and buy **** in a dark spooky dungeon!" then go for it! I'm sure the pc's will love having a tool like that at their disposal. Personally I like it to be somewhat of a trek to go find magic items even in a shop that they really want. You know a little effort for reward.:xykon:

[DarkEternal]

This exact kind of item existed in Baldurs Gate 2, I think.

[Synovia]

I don't see how this is any worse than having a player with a bunch of craft feats. An artificer will break a game a lot easier than this.

[fishjam]

Thanks guys,

Its helped me sort out some logistics, i always thoght something like this would be amusing and a good roleplay thing but i can see where it would be abusable by crafty and creative players.

May have to make a "cursed" shopkeeper item, marvelous deals, discout prices.. "not likely to work"

[Joe the Rat]

If you need to re-equip them on the fly, and don't want them to pull a ladders-into-poles scheme, then it should be a temperamental item.

-The item isn't a shop in itself, but a key for summoning or opening a portal to the pocket dimensional home of some sort of extraplanar merchant or the demigod of overpowered shopkeepers. A doorway appears, and you go inside. (abuse option #1 - free rope trick; solution: Door is visible and open to anyone, and remains open until they leave. He will sell to anyone)

-If they don't want to buy anything, it won't open. If you don't want to buy something, you get yanked out.

-The Shop Keeper is aware of where his doorway opens, and will be sure to charge characters the local prices (plus a 10-50% markup - hey, he's got to make a profit) for his wares. If he buys goods from them at all, his offers are well below cost. "Yeah, 40. I'm doing you a favor here! I'm up to my eyeballs in masterwork silver longswords! What, you want another one? 700, a bargain!"

-The doorway won't open in environments actively hostile to his wares. By the way, he has a lot of paper in stock.

-High-cost goods, powerful magic items, etc. will take time to craft or procure. If they're available at all. He may send you on a fetch-quest first.

-He does not stock cheap crap. You want a wand, you get a fully charged wand. Only wanted one shot? buy a scroll next time.

-He won't sell anyone a spell scroll above the level of what they can cast. "Hey, them backfires can be dangerous. I got a responsibility to my customers here!"

-Sometimes the door just won't open. You get a doorway with a sign that says "Closed" or "Private Event". If you try to summon it for cover, it falls over the first time something hits it. Preferably on the character trying to hide behind it.

Oh, and play it as comedy.

[Jay R]

Is there a way to break the system with some item or set of items?

If the answer is yes, then you are giving them that power.

It's that simple.

[Averis Vol]

you could always have it be a family of merchants, one for each day of the week*, and each day only one of them is at work with a specific trade (like weapons, armor, wondrous items, potions/scrolls(one shot consumables), rings, wands, staffs) that way, it is technically a "Store of infinite possibilities) but the day is important, or equally, you could roll randomly which one is working on which day, and just never use more then one a week.

*This assumes a standard, real world week. not sure how long a week runs you in your games.

[Amaril]

Huh, reminds me of Zin Bu the Magic Abacus from Jade Empire. For those who aren't familiar with this amazing game, he was a celestial bureaucrat assigned to track the protagonist's actions and determine their fate in the afterlife, but he botched it and was shunted sideways into the sales department. He then decided the best way to get his old job back was to help the hero by providing merchant services anywhere and anytime the hero needed them. Jade Empire has a pretty weird cosmology, as you might be able to tell :smallbiggrin:

Also, I agree with the others--it could be a cool item to give them, but be very, very careful in how you let them use it, and make sure you've thought this through.

[Thrawn4]

Castlevania 64 hat this feature. A magical contract that would allow you to visit a shop at certain points. Only downside: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=castlevania+64+renon&oq=castlevania+64+ren&gs_l=youtube.1.0.0i19.13855.25735.0.28491.18.11.0. 7.7.0.92.816.11.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.k0Jwwl3aWbk

[nedz]

Once your players get Teleport, or similar, they won't need this magic shop.
At lower levels magic shops need not be quite so capable.

[Emmerask]

Once your players get Teleport, or similar, they won't need this magic shop.
At lower levels magic shops need not be quite so capable.

Oh I could see a lot of useages for this shop even with teleport available.
Especially during time sensitive quests where there is just not enough time to teleport to the nearest city on the chance that they have the item that would currently be helpful. (and there is a chance of getting somewhere else then you want^^)

I think this magic item will be damaging to the overall "balance" which is bad enough but will even slight further in the casters favor with this item.

My wizard or cleric won´t need to either spend wbl or spell slots for niche spells anymore on the off chance that they are needed.
If needed they can just be bought in an instant on demand freeing either wbl or spellslots for more broken stuff.

It does help none casters a bit too, with some very specific weapons but in the end I feel that casters benefit a lot more.

Its not super bad balance wise (well it can´t get much worse then d&d anyway) but why tip already bad balance even further :smalltongue:

[Bulhakov]

Awesome plot hook idea but I would suggest some limitations:

- the shop can be summoned only at a specific time (e.g. noon, midnight) and needs a relatively long ritual to make it appear (e.g. make a campfire under open sky, surround it with a circle of rocks, wait for a tent to appear, it will stay there till dawn)

- the shopkeeper needs to be a magical/divine being that makes it clear he or the shop is not to be messed with or abused, likely he's not even looking for profit, but more for entertainment and chats with the PCs about their recent adventures (or asks about adventures they hadn't had yet, then acts embarrassed)

- for very rare items the shopkeeper will request additional quests/boons, maybe not the player's soul, but it's a treasure trove of plot hooks - a pint of virgin blood? a tear of joy shed by an evil ruler? a pubic hair of a forest troll?

[AuraTwilight]

The shop is run by an efreeti and his wares are conjured up via wishes, therefore they only get three purchases a day.

[nedz]

The shop is run by an efreeti and his wares are conjured up via wishes, therefore they only get three purchases a day.

If this is true, then the players do not need to know.
Or you have a major exploit just waiting to happen.

[AuraTwilight]

What sort of major exploit? Just because he's using wishes as part of the procedure to conjure up whatever he needs doesn't mean he's literally offering everything the wish can possibly offer. Maybe he only sells objects priced under 15,000 GP, magical or otherwise.

[Dewani90]

you can always make it conjurable only outside a dungeon, so they have to buy whatever they think necessary before entering, then the shop is gone when they come out, and you can always make it sell only low level stuff, you want an iron sword? sure i have plenty, a healing staff? potion of health? book of level 1 spells? sure i have them all, oh, you wanted a steel, silver or adamantium weapon, high level spell book or a panacea?, sorry kiddo, only an established store has those

[fishjam]

Alot of good ideas here.

I totally balnked the whole "fetch quest/plot hooks" for this item.. great one. I can be so creative with this, and obvously feel free to throw stuff in.

The party are.. nearly ALL non magic users.. they all new and all didnt like the idea of wizards and sorcerers and that. we have a bard, 1 fighter, a barbarian, a rogue and a monk.. yeah.. so Magic items wasnt going to be crafted much. so this might work with the whole lack of magic theme. A special and unique shop that hasnt had a lot of sales recently.. because its been buried in a treasure chest for a long time maybe..

Any more ideas throwem at me. go for it. Im sure this can become something really amusing. Oh and i planned on making it Strictly, "you want something welcome, you dont.. get lost"

[nedz]

What sort of major exploit? Just because he's using wishes as part of the procedure to conjure up whatever he needs doesn't mean he's literally offering everything the wish can possibly offer. Maybe he only sells objects priced under 15,000 GP, magical or otherwise.

Blackmail/Diplomacy/Bluff/Charm/Dominate = 3 Wishes.

[Bulhakov]

To avoid exploits it's better to keep the technical details secret, plus it will add an aura of mystery to the shopkeep (just give him plot-armour from any ideas by the players).

Few flavor texts that immediatelly come to mind:

Shopkeep looking out from the tent/through a window: "Oh, I haven't been summoned to this world in a long while"

Shopkeep recognizing one of the players "Welcome back loyal costumer! How did that battle with the dragolich go? " "..." "Oh, that didn't happen yet as you still have both your arms, nevermind, forget I said anything, don't raise the subject again"

As for the silly fetch quests:
- tooth of a tyrant
- green dragon droppings
- a flask of the best mead in the kingdom
- hair of the fairest maiden in the capital
- sweat of a barbarian hero (lvl 20 minimum)
- hairball from a witch's cat familiar

[Joe the Rat]

Rule 0 is handy for things like this.

This is something introduced as a convenience, with a thus-far undefined magically potent general store owner. If they try to abuse the system for more than goods (look at the party - does it look like they're that power-conscious?), he as GM can revoke it. Absurd purchases? Sure. But direct spells and spell-like abilities from the shopkeeper? That's outside of the charter.

If you prefer something a bit more mechanical, you can have the shopkeeper under some form of epic geas that prevents him from doing more than retrieving/fabricating items with his powers (until he earns 100 million gold, at which point he will not be happy with the attempted browbeating). Or his stock comes entirely out of items lost into null-space by portable hole ruptures, and he doesn't have "wish-like" powers at all.

Given the lack of clerics in the party, Izchak, demigod of overpowered shopkeepers wouldn't create too many theological issues.

[nedz]

To avoid exploits it's better to keep the technical details secret, plus it will add an aura of mystery to the shopkeep

Yes exactly, there will always be something you haven't thought of.

[Synovia]

Blackmail/Diplomacy/Bluff/Charm/Dominate = 3 Wishes.

DM's who let players do this = idiots.


Do you really think a creature that can make 3 free wishes a day isn't capable of defending itself from a handful of spells (that can be blocked with a 1st level spell) and Diplomacy/Bluff?

PC's who try to blackmail a Djinn should end up in very bad situations.

[AuraTwilight]

Blackmail/Diplomacy/Bluff/Charm/Dominate = 3 Wishes.

The Efreeti's so stubborn that none of those work. Mind Blank for magic stuff.

"I'm not giving you any goddamn wishes. That's not the type of shop I'm running, here. Material goods only."

[Slipperychicken]

Blackmail/Diplomacy/Bluff/Charm/Dominate = 3 Wishes.

Efreeti + Mortal slave (or friend) = He gets the Wishes => He uses wishes to make bad things happen to you.

[nedz]

DM's who let players do this = idiots.

Do you really think a creature that can make 3 free wishes a day isn't capable of defending itself from a handful of spells (that can be blocked with a 1st level spell) and Diplomacy/Bluff?

PC's who try to blackmail a Djinn should end up in very bad situations.

I wasn't suggesting that the players be allowed to do this, but rather that you not tempt them with the idea because: players. Do you really want to derail your game over a side plot where the likely outcomes include: PC's banned from the magic-mall, PC killed, TPK, ...

[AuraTwilight]

You said it was an exploit, implying you considered it some sort of valid strategy. Just tell your players straight up they won't get away with bullsh!t shenanigans. They're adults.

[nedz]

Probably a bad choice of word on my part, but I would be wary of this way of defining the item.

[AuraTwilight]

There's literally nothing to be wary of. If they're the type who'd try to brainwash the efreeti for wishes they're the type who would murder some commoner and take everything in his store, and if that's what they're going to behave that, have the world react to them appropriately.

[tommhans]

My DM did this once, sold our paladin in the group a really sick magical shield, that made it so that he had 26 in AC!(he actually had far less until we all put our characters in that character builder) and yeah basically he couldnt be killed that easily off, wasnt even challenging anymore for him so he changed character, but yeah he bought that shield for like 1/10th of the price.

He also traded me a griffin(which are really awesome and overpowered) which made me do 50hp in one charge attack with the griffin, which is a lot if you can do that every turn, so he basically had to make it so that he removed the griffin from the game the next session(we were captured and we never found them again:( )

Personally i like it better when u find a magical item and can only use it for an epic encounter or a short period of time, then its not that bad if its overpowered just for an encounter or two