[3.5] Introducing somebody to D&D

[Gice]

Hi, my group is playing the main dragonlance campaign, but are using the 3.5 rules. We are only using the core books (PHB, DMG and MM1) as well as all dragonlance books.

Now recently some new players have joined/are joining the group.
To introduce these new people into D&D (and dragonlance a little bit) we're going to organise a session (i.e., an evening, about 4 hours) to introduce our two new players to the way D&D works.

Because the DM likes to play as well and we're not playing too often, he's asked me to DM this evening (which I like for a change).
Since we are at level 14 we have planned to do something on the following lines:
- We ask the new players what kind of character they want to play (after reading the PHB)
- We make a party with the two new players and two other players who will choose supplementing classes to make a nice party.
- We make a first level characters and I'll lead in a very short story which involves in killing a few goblins (a small encounter).
- We'll upgrade to level 5 characters and we'll go into a bit longer story (multiple rooms, woohoo) with some skill-checks and maybe some traps, to get used to those mechanics. The first room will probably be something similar to the level 1 adventure to give them a feel of powerchanges after leveling up.
- Finally we upgrade to level 14 (the current level they will be playing at), and put them on an adventure with some talking/gathering information as well as more enemies (worthy opponents) followed by a bigger enemy they won't be able to face (dragon or such) to show them that it is important to know when to run :smallsmile:

Now my questions: what, in your opinion, would be the best way to introduce someone into a situation like this? Does the setup I describe sound like a good idea or should we add some other elements of D&D I forgot? Any suggestions for the encounters (please keep it a bit standard :smallwink:)?

[Eldan]

I think one thing that was always helpful when I introduced new people was this:

Don't make them memorize rules first. Always, instead, ask them what they want to do and *then* tell them what they should do for that. Puts them into a better mindset right away.

I'd suggest not starting with combat, either. It tends to be a bit complicated. Start with a roleplaying encounter (quest giver, probably), let them talk to each other a bit, let them get comfortable with that. Then introduce a kind of skill challenge, maybe an environmental obstacle on their way to the quest. Then let them fight a single enemy, so they can get used to attack rolls, armour class and movement. Only do group combat later.

And I really wouldn't throw level 14 character at them after only one session. Let them play an entire session with level 1's, or it will be incredibly confusing.

[mattie_p]

I really don't think you can bring players up to speed with level 14 characters in one session. Why don't you have one whole session at level 1? Or just start a new campaign at level 1 for these players?

One other thing that works is if you can get them to describe their characters in advance, you can pre-build the characters for them at level 1, and bring a cheat sheet of their abilities. That way they aren't consulting the book every time they want to do something, they just look at their cheat sheet.

This works up until level 5-7 or so, at which point their spells and abilities are too much for a single sheet (or even 2-3 sheets), and they just need some system knowledge and page references (like writing down the page number for the sleep spell, etc).

[Komatik]

Tome of Battle is a Core book. Fighter and Monk and Paladin don't actually exist, you're just hallucinating that there's pages in the PHB that say they do.

[Gice]

Most (all except for the DM and me) players are relatively unexperienced so that doesn't really matter too much (this is their first game (excluding the first two books of dragonlance)). So the big lack of real understanding in these new players will probably not cause too much problems. Most players choose classes based on what is "easy to play" anyway. We currently have a ranger/rogue, a fighter, a barbarian, a monk and I'm playing a Cleric. Usually its like "I run up to him and attack (no tripping, grappling, sundering etc)" so real group tactics and such don't matter too much. Additionally, some of the players don't really like the roleplaying that much, but more the combat.

@Eldan, because of this, we usually do something similar to this until players understand how to do it in D&D right away.
Irregardless, I intend on starting with a quest giver of sorts at level 1 just to show that it's not only about combat.

@mattie_p A whole session at level 1 would not give them the feeling of changing powers when leveling up, plus the switch to level 14 will be too large to have only 1 and 14 I feel.
We (the DM and I) also intend to show them how to look up stuff by themselves after a few times, but start by telling them how to do things right away.
To save time, we'll also try to precreate most character sheets. Either that or we'll simply don't pay too much attention to the details of character sheets yet.

[Gice]

Tome of Battle is a Core book. Fighter and Monk and Paladin don't actually exist, you're just hallucinating that there's pages in the PHB that say they do.

Haha, I included the "(PHB, DMG and MM1)" bit to prevent people from making wrong assumptions about the books we use.
In any case, paladins don't exist in Dragonlance, so you're right about that :smallbiggrin:.

[Zombimode]

Don't make them memorize rules first. Always, instead, ask them what they want to do and *then* tell them what they should do for that. Puts them into a better mindset right away.

Well, for some people this might work. On the other hand it could create the expectation that the player does not need to learn the rules because the DM will handle everything. And thats a mindset I despise.

While I'm the first to point out that D&D is not MTG, learning to play D&D is maybe closer to learning to play MTG then you would think. D&D is a rules-heavy game and the rules, in part, inform what happens in the game world and what your character can do. To make informed decisions in-character you have to know the rules. And this is something the player has to understand from the beginning.

[mattie_p]

@mattie_p A whole session at level 1 would not give them the feeling of changing powers when leveling up, plus the switch to level 14 will be too large to have only 1 and 14 I feel.
We (the DM and I) also intend to show them how to look up stuff by themselves after a few times, but start by telling them how to do things right away.
To save time, we'll also try to precreate most character sheets. Either that or we'll simply don't pay too much attention to the details of character sheets yet.

Yeah, they don't need the whole feeling of changing powers when leveling up. They probably have that from WoW, or PS3/Xbox games, or even farmville. What they really need is a basic understanding of this game. The best way to do that is to start them at the beginning, and then work to level them up as they go. Which is why I suggested beginning a whole campaign for them (you can skip a level or two in between if you must, but I really don't recommend going from level 1 to level 14 over less than 7 sessions).

[Gice]

Yeah, they don't need the whole feeling of changing powers when leveling up. They probably have that from WoW, or PS3/Xbox games, or even farmville. What they really need is a basic understanding of this game. The best way to do that is to start them at the beginning, and then work to level them up as they go. Which is why I suggested beginning a whole campaign for them (you can skip a level or two in between if you must, but I really don't recommend going from level 1 to level 14 over less than 7 sessions).

I agree that throwing new players into a campaign is not a great idea either, because of the backstory (although we have a semi-detailed wiki) and game knowledge because they are new.
But, we don't really have the option to take a lot of sessions because we sometimes even have 2 months between sessions. We started this campaign on 22nd of april 2009 and are here, at level 14 now.

Besides the discussion about whether or not we should do this in one session, does anyone have suggestions on what kind of encounters/traps/skills to 'demonstrate'?
I like the starting setup of quest giver -> skill check to get to encounter -> small battle. So I'll ask them to retrieve an item from a group of goblins or something, and then (at higher level) they will face the leader of the goblins (or owner of the item).

[Person_Man]

Here's my personal procedure for introducing new players:

1) Describe the world in general to the new players, and the types of things adventurers do.

2) Ask them about the type of character they would like to play, and the types of things they would like to be able to do.

3) Create their character for them. Preferably a single class build with spontaneous abilities. Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage, Beguiler, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Psychic Rogue, Bard, etc. Where rules are needlessly complex (such as the Favored Soul being Wis and Cha dependent) simplify them as a house rule. Choose Feats that are meaningful, but also simple to understand and use. (Fearless Destiny, Acheron Flurry, Fearless, Improved Toughness, Improved Initiative, Spirit Sense, Sculpt Spell, etc).

4) Write each potential action that they might do down on a separate note card, simplifying things where possible. So each of their spells/maneuvers/powers gets one card, and you create a separate card for "Full Attack Action" and "Charge" and "Withdraw" and whatever. I find that it's best to load them up with useful Standard Action spells/manuevers/powers, so that they get into the habit of Move and Act, rather then worrying about juggling Swift/Immediate + (Move+Standard or Full Round).

5) Let them read everything through, and make sure they're cool with it and look forward to playing it. If they're not, change it.

6) During the game itself, if the player wants to do something that's similar to what's written on a card but not exactly like it, just let them do it. For example, if they want Fireball to be a line of fire instead of a burst, or they want to lite a camp fire with a cantrip, or whatever, just let it happen, and then try to retconn it with appropriate Feat choices after the fact. It's a game, not a fantasy physics simulator, and the point of a game is to have fun.

[Shining Wrath]

I think you want a modular approach.


First have them understand the idea of "PC" versus "NPC", and that not all NPC are antagonists.

Hand them some pre-created characters.

Then introduce the skill checks - Diplomacy, Climb, whatever. Just get that D20 + ability score + training mechanic across.

Then have them fight something.

Then introduce spellcasting.

*THEN* have them create characters, once they have some idea what a PC does

[Komatik]

Haha, I included the "(PHB, DMG and MM1)" bit to prevent people from making wrong assumptions about the books we use.
In any case, paladins don't exist in Dragonlance, so you're right about that :smallbiggrin:.

O_o? Some of the Knights of Solamnia should be Paladins? Though depends on the era I guess.

The Tome of Battle note was just because Fighters are generally a bad class. Weak, quite easy to screw up and largely one-note. Charge, full attack, that's it. ToB makes sword swingers mobile and able to do cool stuff rules-wise by default. Interesting choices to make every round and so on. The casters are still more powerful (but no longer just more fun), so that fear of the supernatural is preserved. The Warblade and Crusader fit right into Dragonlance, too. Helps that it's basically impossible to screw a Warblade up unless you specifically try.

[Karnith]

O_o? Some of the Knights of Solamnia should be Paladins?
Surprisingly, no. Knights of Solamnia are (in game terms) meant to be either fighters or multiclass fighter/clerics (who may go on to take levels in the prestige classes of the orders). While the Knights of Solamnia serve more or less the same function as paladins, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting specifies that characters with levels in the actual paladin class are rare.

[Gice]

Thanks for the replies everybody :)

I'll try to combine your input and generally have a good time :smallbiggrin: