Building a full caster that goes in the frontlines?

[jokeaccount]

Hi,

Been playing as a rogue/fighter for some time and now I've entered TSL PrC with Shadow Walker template added and I really enjoy even the MINIMAL versatility I get with my 4-5 SLAs and 1 spell per day. So I thought, how can someone expand this? On one hand I HATE ranged coward classes, on the other hand I LOVE being Batman. Is there a build that combines this? And when I say Batman, I mean maybe not 20 spell casting progression but still acces to 9th level of utility belt. (skill points are a plus)

I stumbled upon the classic SpellThief 1/Wizard 5/Unseen S 10/X 4 and I seem to like it but are there any other variants out there? (especially that don't require dubious rules like Master Spellthief where the DM has the opportunity to nerf you just because he wants to). What should I look for? Note that I'd prefer if I could deal damage in the front lines while using my ample spell options for control, buffs, divinations, mobility, skill checks etc.

[andromax]

I assume you mean full arcane caster, because divine casters can already do this right out of the box.

[mucco]

Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9. Get the Heart of X spells, Elemental Body, Bite of X, and Wraithstrike. Have fun doing 300 damage/round, and being immune to everything your DM lets you be.

[jokeaccount]

Yes I'm referring to arcane caster otherwise I'd go Druid (also I don't really like Druid 'cause I feel it limits some RP options). I checked the swiftblade/wizard build you suggest but I cannot find the Heart of X spell you are referring to (the bite of X spells seem OP wtf!). Also, any other builds that preferably incorporate classes that exist in books? The swiftblade has a high chance of getting the D from the DM simply because if it is not in a book it hasn't been playtested and generally he rarely accepts stuff like that. (i.e he's ok with wizard trolling but not with ToB classes)

[nedz]

The kind of character you are looking for is called a Gish.
I'll just leave this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786) here.

[Gnaeus]

Since no system is clarified, I'll add Synthesist Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist)

[jokeaccount]

System is 3.5 (i'm referring ToB and some 3.5 classes I believe). Also I remember checking out the "gish" style some time ago but I think it was not what I was looking for especially on the highest spell level those builds could achieve. I remember a gish reaching up to 4th lvl or something in order to get all the basic buffs but I'm looking for something more (caster wise)

[Norin]

Normal gish builds end up with 9th arcane casting and something like 16 Or more bab...

Should be "OK"? Read up om the concepts again. It's alot of really good gish builds out there.

[Shining Wrath]

There is a class called "Battle Sorcerer", but I think it is largely regarded as suboptimal since you give up spell power relative to a good gish.

[SamBurke]

The Sorcadin is popular because of the SAD of Charisma.

[Urpriest]

Yes I'm referring to arcane caster otherwise I'd go Druid (also I don't really like Druid 'cause I feel it limits some RP options). I checked the swiftblade/wizard build you suggest but I cannot find the Heart of X spell you are referring to (the bite of X spells seem OP wtf!). Also, any other builds that preferably incorporate classes that exist in books? The swiftblade has a high chance of getting the D from the DM simply because if it is not in a book it hasn't been playtested and generally he rarely accepts stuff like that. (i.e he's ok with wizard trolling but not with ToB classes)

That's not true, though. WotC online content is just as likely to be playtested as their book content.

[Douglas]

Crusader/Wizard/Jade Phoenix Mage works pretty well, I think. When you run out of Jade Phoenix Mage levels (if you get that far), start Abjurant Champion.

[mucco]

Yes I'm referring to arcane caster otherwise I'd go Druid (also I don't really like Druid 'cause I feel it limits some RP options). I checked the swiftblade/wizard build you suggest but I cannot find the Heart of X spell you are referring to (the bite of X spells seem OP wtf!). Also, any other builds that preferably incorporate classes that exist in books? The swiftblade has a high chance of getting the D from the DM simply because if it is not in a book it hasn't been playtested and generally he rarely accepts stuff like that. (i.e he's ok with wizard trolling but not with ToB classes)

Well, no Swiftblade makes it more difficult. Heart of X line is in Complete Mage. The good ones are Heart of Water (3rd level, lasts hr/lvl, discharge as swift to get freedom of movement) and Heart of Earth (4th level, hr/lvl, 2*CL temp hp, discharge as swift to gain stoneskin without material components).

I don't like cheese, but if your DM doesn't want swiftblade a Domain Wizard to cast Divine Power is a very good idea. You will want some action economy with that so maybe Incantatrix/Celerity/Craft Contingent Spell. I hate all of these and I think swiftblade is so much more balanced though. If Domain wizard is out, snag one of those weapon enhancements that make you have Medium BAB (Aptitude? I forget). If you feel like breaking the game, get Polymorph.

If you want to go Sorcerer, dip in Paladin for saves is nice (get Practiced Spellcaster probably), and there are some excellent (broken?) Sorc only spells like Arcane Spellsurge/Arcane Fusion/Wings of Cover/Wings of Flurry.

Sigh. All of this could be avoided with Swiftblade. It is truly one of the few not-so-broken ways to gain the action economy that is much needed for gishes.

EDIT: oh and Abjurant Champion is your goto follow-up for the last levels.

[Vaz]

Wu Jen 3/Archivist 3/Geomancer 2/Incantatrix 3/Geomancer +7/Archmage 1

Take Miracle as the Archmage's SLA

Staff of Mighty Sweeping with Sizing, Morphing and Skillful Enchantments.

You now have a 30m High guy with 150ft square being Chaingun whipped to death.

You can now also cause the Big Bang.

[jokeaccount]

Taking miracle/wish as SLA bypasses the xp requirement? Also I'm guessing human is best race for any favored class right?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Most groups that have any sense of game balance will toss multiclassing xp penalties along with favored class right under the bus.

Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Incantatrix 4/ Eldritch Knight 4 will get you +16 BAB and 9th level spells, along with being able to persist your highest level spells. Replace the first six levels with Human or Elf Paragon 1/ Fighter 1/ Wizard 2/ Human or Elf Paragon 2 for slightly better HP, skills, and saves. Use Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) to get something like Power Attack or Combat Reflexes or Improved Toughness instead of Scribe Scroll. I'd use Dragonborn Grey Elf with it if you're starting high enough level to cast Polymorph.

Always put the first two or three Incantatrix levels as early as you can without worrying about your HP. The Slow trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#slow) plus Persistent Swift Expeditious Retreat can help out with that. Note that Incantatrix can use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect to persist your highest level spells if you get Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd and put every skill point you get after that into it for the greatest return. Cooperative Metamagic can be used on your own spells outside of combat because the action economy system only exists during initiative. Item familiars are intelligent items, which are regarded as constructs, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas. Make it a ring and wear a glove or gauntlet over it so it can never be targeted directly or slight of handed.

With persistent buffs like Shield, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Wraithstrike, Swift Fly, Displacement, Ray Deflection, Greater Invisibility, Thunderlance, Draconic Polymorph: Cave/War Troll, etc. plus hour/level spells like Greater Magic Weapon, Greater Luminous Armor, Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire, etc. and 24-hour buffs like Greater/Superior Resistance and Mind Blank, you won't really have to worry about gear.

[Vaz]

Taking miracle/wish as SLA bypasses the xp requirement? Also I'm guessing human is best race for any favored class right?

Neraph. Go knock yourself out with Alter Self and Polymorph funzies on a LA+0 Outsider. The Human bonus feat and skill points are oddly not necessary for once. Sure, they're nice, as always, but they're strictly a bit meh in this build Multi-class penalties can be annoying, but when it comes to it, XP is a river. Races with boosts to Physical Scores and Intelligence likewise lose out. Neraph are pure awesome though. Possibly my favourite race.

Tbh, it's complete TO, DM's don't like facing 48 hour persisted buffs of every single spell in the universe, regardless of whether it could normally be Persisted Extended Maximised and Widened all together, every single day.

You can do something similar with Psionics; Archivist 3/Convert Spell to Power Erudite 3/Psychic Theurge 10/Divine Caster +3/Hierophant 1 - you're an Archivist 16/Spell to Power Erudite 13. But of course, you're not as high a level, and don't have access to SLA Miracle.

[pyromanser244]

you may want to look into duskblade. it has a more limited spell list than pure casters, but you've got more spells per day than anyone but thuerges and can smash face to a satisfying degree. caps at 5th level spells though, so if you want max casting you'll need either shenanigans or a different class.

[Yael]

You could try a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, which HD is d8+con+2/lv, but you would have problems with the lack of spells known and spells per day, however, this is only before entering Master Transmogrifist~~ :smallsmile: