Druid with AC of 70+

[Morphie]

Well, the title is self-explanatory. I'm currently playing a druid and I hope to take it to epic levels. Aside from the fear of losing my companion, I want to find a way to achieve an AC of 70+, in order to survive the really tough fights.
I have 18 Dex and all my ability increases are going to Wis, so that's out of the challenge.
I'm going pure druid all the way, so no ToB things or psionics and the like, just items (starting on monks' belt and bracers of armor) spells, wild shape and maybe some feats... any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

[Phelix-Mu]

Owl's insight spell from Spell Compendium plus CL optimization plus monk's belt is a pretty good start. It only lasts for an hour, unless you go to the trouble of finding a way to persistify it, but it's a long enough duration that a couple castings should cover the majority of active, planned combat time in a normal day.

Items of natural armour and deflection give +10 together.

Really, wild armour and a wild shield can go a good way toward boosting the AC. If you get dragoncrafted dragonhide full plate with +5 enhancement, and a shield with +5 enhancement, the two of those will yield +20.... But I think this goes against the monk's belt tactic? Also kind of pricey.

[Morphie]

Owl's insight spell from Spell Compendium plus CL optimization plus monk's belt is a pretty good start. It only lasts for an hour, unless you go to the trouble of finding a way to persistify it, but it's a long enough duration that a couple castings should cover the majority of active, planned combat time in a normal day.

Items of natural armour and deflection give +10 together.

Really, wild armour and a wild shield can go a good way toward boosting the AC. If you get dragoncrafted dragonhide full plate with +5 enhancement, and a shield with +5 enhancement, the two of those will yield +20.... But I think this goes against the monk's belt tactic? Also kind of pricey.

Yep, armor and shiels get pricey and they wouldn't work with the monk's belt. I've heard of the combination of the wild armor enhancement with the belt, but I personally think it is a bit cheesy, so I wouldn't like to follow that route.
For Natural Armor my thoughts went to tortoise shell, it can boost the ac up to +9, which is cool :)

Thanks :)

[Eldariel]

Step 1: Find a Wildshape form with very high combination of Dexterity and Natural Armor.
Step 2: Cast Tortoise Shell and Halo of Sand.
Step 3: Wild Monk's Belt.
Step 4: Wild Bracers of Armor +8.
Step 5: Owl's Insight (can be couple Extended to last whole day or so; Rods of Extend help if not persistifying) & +6 Item.
Step 6: Enhance Wildshape Spell for further stat buffs.
Step 7: Add any short duration buffs as applicable.

Remember, if you're going Epic you can use Persistent Spell without Divine Metamagic or such easily too. You should break 100 without much effort. Beyond that it takes a bit of work.

[Shining Wrath]

Get a party member to be a fully equipped 20th level Crusader.
Stay behind them.
See how easy?

[Invader]

Just curious as to why you're trying to such a high AC? Usually at these levels miss chance is a much more popular and attainable goal.

[Khatoblepas]

You're a druid.

You don't (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/blizzard--1300/) need (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/snowsight--1325/) AC (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/mantle-of-the-icy-soul--1319/).

Clarification: By casting blizzard and snowsight, you and your party can act normally within the blizzard, while your enemies can't even attempt to make spot checks or listen checks to find you, and their ranged attacks will be useless. This is just one of the many things druids can use to stop people attacking them. Otherwise, just use your other battlefield control spells to keep enemies at bay while you whale[sic] on them.

Oh, and since it's just two spell slots, you can do that + the other things in this thread. It's your animal companion I'd worry about. Give it a smoking mouthpick weapon, at least.

[mregecko]

Not sure what level you are now, but the key is to just find a Wildshape form with a high NA and have wilding armor / items to boost your AC even more.

Example (level 20)
Aberration Wildshape
Form of: Maulgoth (FF pg 123), +24 NA, +7 DEX, -2 Size

+1 Dragonhide Fullplate
+1 Dragonhide Shield
--> Get party cleric to cast Magic Vestment (extend rod) to get +5/+5 on these items.
+5 Ring of Defection
Tortoise Shell Spell (+9)
+6 Dex Item (Cat's Grace doesn't stack, both enhancement)

If my math is right, that's a 79 AC right there. Cast Scintillating Scales and it's a 56 touch AC.

This is without any Insight, Luck, Sacred/Profane, or Dodge bonuses.

[Eldariel]

Just curious as to why you're trying to such a high AC? Usually at these levels miss chance is a much more popular and attainable goal.

Eh, no, that's only true for mundanes; casters get their AC from spells so it's practically free to have ~70-80 so why not.

[Talderas]

Well, the title is self-explanatory. I'm currently playing a druid and I hope to take it to epic levels. Aside from the fear of losing my companion, I want to find a way to achieve an AC of 70+, in order to survive the really tough fights.
I have 18 Dex and all my ability increases are going to Wis, so that's out of the challenge.
I'm going pure druid all the way, so no ToB things or psionics and the like, just items (starting on monks' belt and bracers of armor) spells, wild shape and maybe some feats... any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

Enemies in the ELH are not advanced by the same rules as PCs. You should probably discuss that with your DM.

[mregecko]

Eh, no, that's only true for mundanes; casters get their AC from spells so it's practically free to have ~70-80 so why not.

Also, worth noting, True Seeing (which everyone should have easily at epic levels) negates the majority of miss chances. Miss chance is great for mid-levels, but for anything that's an actual threat at higher levels, it's almost worthless.

[Khatoblepas]

Also, worth noting, True Seeing (which everyone should have easily at epic levels) negates the majority of miss chances. Miss chance is great for mid-levels, but for anything that's an actual threat at higher levels, it's almost worthless.

What about Obscuring Snow (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/obscuring-snow--1259/) + Invisible Spell + Greater Invisibility? True Seeing will see the snow, you can have True Seeing + Snowsight up and be immune to it. If they put down True Seeing, they don't see anyone.

Of course, they'll need to have Snowsight in order to defeat this combo, but what are the chances of someone habitually memorising Snowsight? Only druids, rangers, winter domain clerics, and archivists can memorise it.

[Phelix-Mu]

What about Obscuring Snow (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/obscuring-snow--1259/) + Invisible Spell + Greater Invisibility? True Seeing will see the snow, you can have True Seeing + Snowsight up and be immune to it. If they put down True Seeing, they don't see anyone.

Of course, they'll need to have Snowsight in order to defeat this combo, but what are the chances of someone habitually memorising Snowsight? Only druids, rangers, winter domain clerics, and archivists can memorise it.

Or anyone with limited wish?

Really, don't be too paranoid. Many of these tricks only become necessary as the power-level of the campaign increases. Should all epic monsters have true seeing? Unless they are stupid, yes. Does that mean that they all do in a given campaign? Not necessarily. Should the player have true seeing available? Yes, yes, yes.

[mregecko]

What about Obscuring Snow (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/obscuring-snow--1259/) + Invisible Spell + Greater Invisibility? True Seeing will see the snow, you can have True Seeing + Snowsight up and be immune to it. If they put down True Seeing, they don't see anyone.

Of course, they'll need to have Snowsight in order to defeat this combo, but what are the chances of someone habitually memorising Snowsight? Only druids, rangers, winter domain clerics, and archivists can memorise it.

But druids, rangers, winter-domain clerics can't cast greater invisibility, and if they could it requires a feat invested in Invisible Spell... And any sort of blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, lifesense, mindsight, etc bypasses it.

But yes, it is possible for some builds to make miss chances that are hard to overcome. A base epic druid will have an easier time pumping their AC to the roof, in my opinion.

Or just make an epic spell to break the world ;-)

[Spuddles]

Starmantle cloak + ring of evasion = immunity to melee attacks. If that is too cheesy, just cast Starmantle on yourself. BoED.

There's also that sanctified spell that gives you the benefits of full plate with no draw backs and melee attackers have -4 to hit you. Luminous armor. BoED.

[ksbsnowowl]

Get Dragon Wildshape at 12th level (Draconomicon). By 16th level, you can wildshape into the oldest category Medium-sized Shadow Dragon. It has +19 Natural Armor. Though granted its Dex is only 10.

10 (base) + 24 (natural, barkskin) + 2 (Dex, Cat's Grace) + 8 (armor, Bracers or Armor) +5 (Deflection, Ring of Protection) = 49

Add in a Monk's Belt, and you should easily hit AC 55 by 20th level.

I'm sure there are other things you can do to up it (Talisman of Shield for +4), but by this point, you're in the unhittable range pre-epic.

[Invader]

Also, worth noting, True Seeing (which everyone should have easily at epic levels) negates the majority of miss chances. Miss chance is great for mid-levels, but for anything that's an actual threat at higher levels, it's almost worthless.

Lets be honest though, at 40th level AC is just as easy to negate as miss chance if not more so.

The only reason there are level 40+ mundane characters to begin with is because there are casters that make level appropriate magic items that allow them to get there.

[Spuddles]

Lets be honest though, at 40th level AC is just as easy to negate as miss chance if not more so.

The only reason there are level 40+ mundane characters to begin with is because there are casters that make level appropriate magic items that allow them to get there.

How are you negating AC? Save or X only works if your DC is high enough and target doesnt have one of 10,000 immunities.

Targeting touch ac isn't really negating anything when you are shooting at a wisdom 50 target wearing a monk's belt.

You can always spam wish/surge of fortune for auto hits, which I suppose is sufficient AC circumvention, but it isn't really an ability a hecachon-thingy or atropal has.

[RedDragons]

at that high a AC and if your going to bother with wildshaping I think you need to dip into the magical wildshape feats and find a monster that is small but deadly

[Snowbluff]

Just curious as to why you're trying to such a high AC? Usually at these levels miss chance is a much more popular and attainable goal.

95% Concealment or Miss Chance doesn't normally happen, and they still stack.

:smalltongue:

[Invader]

My point is that level 40 PC's don't tend to die from sword swings, especially tier 1casters regardless of whether their using wildshape.

[RedDragons]

For someone who hasent said this


Look into the eberron setting for something called a shadow symboiant


Gives you an immediate action and can be worn, gives you 50% concealment or something like that

[Snowbluff]

My point is that level 40 PC's don't tend to die from sword swings, especially tier 1casters regardless of whether their using wildshape.

*Removes glasses, squints* Yeah, that makes sense. AC should stop mattering at that point, depending on the campaign.

[RedDragons]

epic mantel anyone? *grins*


At that level you could even get epic spell reversal if you are paranoid .

[Invader]

*Removes glasses, squints* Yeah, that makes sense. AC should stop mattering at that point, depending on the campaign.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii636/invaderk2/original.jpeg

[mattie_p]

I'm going pure druid all the way, so no ToB things or psionics and the like, just items (starting on monks' belt and bracers of armor) spells, wild shape and maybe some feats... any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

You don't get any additional spells per day after druid 20, and you should be in wildshape 24/7 at that point (don't need more wild shape, in other words), so why stay druid? Is it just for the bonus feats?

[Spuddles]

You don't get any additional spells per day after druid 20, and you should be in wildshape 24/7 at that point (don't need more wild shape, in other words), so why stay druid? Is it just for the bonus feats?

Because caster level and more hd for wildshape?

[mattie_p]

Because caster level and more hd for wildshape?

Hour per level buffs and spells last all day (for all intents and purposes) at that point, the extra CL don't help all that much. MOMF gets you extra hd for wildshape with some class features. Or just splash wizard and go into arcane heirophant. Plenty of things to do once you are druid 20 besides more druid.

[Spuddles]

Hour per level buffs and spells last all day (for all intents and purposes) at that point, the extra CL don't help all that much. MOMF gets you extra hd for wildshape with some class features. Or just splash wizard and go into arcane heirophant. Plenty of things to do once you are druid 20 besides more druid.

Never had to face dispel magic, eh? Or make CL checks? Agreed that AH should be considered.

But more CL is always good, as are more wildshaping HD and effective druid level for that battletitan pet.

[Morphie]

First of all, thanks for all the tips, you guys are amazing :)

I'm just trying to cover all the bases, it's the first time I play a pure caster and I'm really enjoying it, so I don't want to leave anything behind, just make the best out of the class and really have fun (that's the purpose of the game, anyway). Since the attack bonus goes up faster than AC I wanted to know what I could do without compromising the druid's offensive capabilities.

The Animal Companion is another challenge, I think the main problem won't be his AC since he will have a good natural armor that can be increased by sharing Tortoise Shell and other spells (Touch AC still low probably, but I think I can manage to buy a second monk's belt or some good armor+ enhancements). I'm concerned with it's mobility, since I'll be keeping the riding dog all the way (I just like him). Air Walk will probably work, but I haven't thought too much about this.

This Playground rules! ;)

[Morphie]

Oh, and after lvl20 I still don't know if I'll try another class/prestige class, it just seems too far ahead at the moment. But I'll check Arcane hierophant, thanks for the tip :)

[Fates]

Step 5: Owl's Insight (can be couple Extended to last whole day or so; Rods of Extend help if not persistifying) & +6 Item.


Owl's Insight doesn't stack with +wisdom items. They're both enhancement bonuses.

[mattie_p]

Owl's Insight doesn't stack with +wisdom items. They're both enhancement bonuses.

That is incorrect. Most items grant an enhancement bonus, that spell (Druid 5, SpC) grants an insight bonus (stacks with inherent and enhancement bonuses). Build items that grant ability score bonuses of different types. Make a continuous item of owl's insight grants an insight bonus to wisdom. Find someone who can construct an item that grants profane/sacred/holy/morale bonus to wis as well.

[ksbsnowowl]

Owl's Insight doesn't stack with +wisdom items. They're both enhancement bonuses.

My copy of Spell Compendium clearly states it is an insight bonus, not enhancement.

The poster you quoted did get one thing wrong though; the spell can't "be couple extended." In 3.5 you can only apply a given metamagic feat once to a spell.

Edit: ninjas...

[Spuddles]

My copy of Spell Compendium clearly states it is an insight bonus, not enhancement.

The poster you quoted did get one thing wrong though; the spell can't "be couple extended." In 3.5 you can only apply a given metamagic feat once to a spell.

Edit: ninjas...

Two extended owl's insights will last you 4 hours. At level 20+, adventuring shouldnt usually take longer than greater teleport, combat, mcguffin, combat, mcguffin, greater teleport.

[ksbsnowowl]

Two extended owl's insights will last you 4 hours. At level 20+, adventuring shouldnt usually take longer than greater teleport, combat, mcguffin, combat, mcguffin, greater teleport.

Ah, two separate castings. Makes sense now.

[Fates]

That is incorrect. Most items grant an enhancement bonus, that spell (Druid 5, SpC) grants an insight bonus (stacks with inherent and enhancement bonuses). Build items that grant ability score bonuses of different types. Make a continuous item of owl's insight grants an insight bonus to wisdom. Find someone who can construct an item that grants profane/sacred/holy/morale bonus to wis as well.

Sorry, sorry, wasn't paying attention. I was thinking Owl's Wisdom, which grants an enhancement bonus. Apologies to all, and to all a good night.