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Wargamer
2013-03-07, 01:44 PM
Okay, this is going to be kept very short and very simple. In fact, I'm going to make so few changes to the Fighter I won't even bother with tables.

Skills: Add "Knowledge [all]", "Listen", "Profession" and "Search" to the Fighter's skill set - Fighters come from a variety of backgrounds, so it is not unreasonable to assume they might, you know, know things!
Skill Points: 4 + int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level.

The Class:
The Fighter gains a Bonus Feat every level.


...that's it! Fighter Class updated! Huzzah!

Except that we're not actually done yet. You see, here's where the real meat of the work comes in...

NEW FEATS!

I've tried to organise these by Fighter Level (ie: what level fighter you need to be to get them). However, where the Feats are done in progression I've kept them all together for simplicity.

Weapon Focus and its ilk:

Weapon Focus:
Unchanged.

Weapon Focus, Greater:
Prerequisites: Change "Fighter Level 8th" to "Fighter level 6th".

Weapon Specialization:
Prerequisites: Change "Fighter Level 4th" to "Fighter level 3rd".

Weapon Specialization, Greater:
Prerequisites: Change "Fighter Level 12th" to "Fighter level 9th".

Melee / Ranged Weapon Mastery:
Unchanged, save to specify that the bonus is cumulative with Weapon Focus, etc.


1st / 2nd level Fighter Feats:

Brutal Strike:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 2nd.
Benefit: If your attack fails to beat your target's AC, but your roll is high enough to hit with a touch attack, you inflict damage equal to your strength bonus. Attacks made with an off-hand weapon deal damage equal to half your strength bonus, whilst attacks with a two-handed weapon deal 1.5x your strength bonus.

Improved Weapon Focus:
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Fighter level 2nd.
Benefit: The to hit bonus granted by Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Focus is doubled.

Intimidating Reputation:
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 1st.
Benefit: You gain a bonus to all Intimidate checks equal to 1/2 your Fighter Level.

Improved Intimidating Reputation:
Prerequisites: Intimidating Reputation, Fighter Level 5th.
Benefit: Your bonus to Intimidate granted by Intimidating Reputation is increased to your full Fighter Level.

Naturalist:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 1st.
Benefit: Gain Handle Animal, Survival and Heal as class skills.

Shield Another:
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 2nd.
Benefit: When using a shield, you may reduce the AC granted to you by your shield (minimum +0) and increase the AC of one ally within 5ft of you by the same amount. This bonus lasts until the beginning of your next turn. It also ceases to apply if they move more than 5ft away from you, or you move more than 5ft away from them.

Suave:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 1st.
Benefit: Gain Bluff, Gather Information and Diplomacy as class skills.


3rd / 4th level Fighter Feats:

Determined Combat Expertise:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 3rd.
Benefit: You gain the Combat Expertise Feat. You may use this Feat even if your Intelligence score is less than 13.

Determined Power Attack:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 3rd.
Benefit: You gain the Power Attack Feat. You may use this Feat even if your Strength score is less than 13.

Improved Cleave:
Prerequisites: Power Attack, Cleave, Fighter level 4.
Benefit: Upon reducing an enemy to 0 hit points you may immediately make a 5ft step. This applies before resolving any Cleave attack.
If you have the Great Cleave Feat, you may make one additional 5ft step per enemy reduced to 0 hit points.

Light Two Weapon Fighting:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 3rd.
Benefit: You gain the Two Weapon Fighting feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites, so long as you are using a light weapon in your off-hand, are not wearing medium or heavy armour and are carrying no more than a light load.

Strengthened Off-hand Fighting:
Prerequisites: Two weapon fighting, Fighter level 3rd.
Benefit: You may add your full Strength bonus to offhand attacks.

5th/6th level Fighter Feats:

Ambusher:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th.
Benefit: Whenever your opponent is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC, you inflict an additional 1d6 damage.
If you have the Sneak Attack class feat, you instead deal +1d6 sneak attack damage.

Improved Ambusher:
Prerequisites: Ambusher, Fighter level 10th.
Benefit: Whenever your opponent is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC, you inflict an additional 1d6 damage.
If you have the Sneak Attack class feat, you instead deal +1d6 sneak attack damage.

Greater Ambusher:
Prerequisites: Ambusher, Improved Ambusher, Fighter level 15th.
Benefit: Whenever your opponent is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC, you inflict an additional 1d6 damage.
If you have the Sneak Attack class feat, you instead deal +1d6 sneak attack damage.

Supreme Ambusher:
Prerequisites: Ambusher, Improved Ambusher, Greater Ambusher, Fighter level 20th.
Benefit: Whenever your opponent is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC, you inflict an additional 1d6 damage.
If you have the Sneak Attack class feat, you instead deal +1d6 sneak attack damage.

Determined Two Weapon Fighting:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th.
Benefit: You gain the Two Weapon Fighting Feat. You may make use of this feat even if your Dexterity score is less than 15.

Insightful Strike:
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, Fighter Level 5th.
Benefit: You may add your Intelligence bonus (if any) to damage rolls made with a light weapon or rapier.

Methodical Planner:
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 6th.
Benefit: Your party members come to rely upon you for guidance and leadership. If you spend at least ten minutes with one or more party members in a strategy meeting, all party members present gain a morale bonus to all Search, Spot, Listen, Hide, Move Silently, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate and Sense Motive checks made that day. The bonus is equal to 1/4 your Fighter Level.
If you have the Leadership feat, the bonus is equal to 1/2 your Fighter Level instead.

Mighty Blow:
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th.
Benefit: As a standard action, you make a single attack that applies your Fighter Level as a bonus to your attack and damage roll.

Greater Mighty Blow:
Prerequisites: Mighty Blow, Fighter level 12th.
Benefit: All attacks you make gain a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to 1/2 your Fighter level. This does not stack with Mighty Blow.

Supreme Mighty Blow:
Prerequisites: Mighty Blow, Greater Mighty Blow, Fighter level 18th.
Benefit: All attacks you make gain a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to your Fighter level. This does not stack with Mighty Blow.

Rally the Party:
Prerequisites: Cha 12, Fighter Level 6th.
Benefit: As a standard action, you give a rallying cry to inspire your allies. This grants all allies within 30ft a morale bonus equal to your Charisma modifier. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your Fighter Level + your Cha modifier. Your allies must be able to hear you and understand you to benefit.
Alternatively, you may spend a full minute inspiring your party with a rousing speech, going through methodical plan of attack or some other similar action (Evil players may well use threats of violence!). If this is performed, the above boost lasts for a number of minutes equal to 1/2 your Fighter Level + your Cha modifier instead.
If you have the Leadership Feat, you may add your full Fighter Level to determine the duration of the morale boost.



7th/8th level Fighter Feats:

Mettle:
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 8th.
Benefit: You gain Mettle as a class feature.

Uncanny Dodge:
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 8th.
Benefit: You gain Uncanny Dodge as a class feature.
If you already have Uncanny Dodge from another source, this Feat grants no additional bonus.

Improved Uncanny Dodge:
Prerequisites: Uncanny Dodge class feature, Fighter Level 12th.
Benefit: You gain [i]Improved Uncanny Dodge as a class feature.


9th/10th level Fighter Feats:

Force of Will:
Prerequisites: Fighter Level 10th.
Benefit: Whenever you are required to make a Will Save, you may choose to make a Fortitude Save instead.


...and that's all I've got so far. More ideas for Fighter Feats are very welcome!

Libertad
2013-03-08, 01:30 AM
Some updates to a Fighter (and other noncaster) classes are in order for middle and higher levels in D&D.

The standard 3rd Edition Fighter's main weaknesses are lack of mobility, lack of counter-attacks against flying opponents and many magical effects, and lack of ability to pinpoint invisible foes, and hit incorporeal ones. They can do a lot of this with excessive splatbook use, or from multi-classing a lot, but ideally a straight Fighter should be able to overcome these weaknesses right out of the box without being completely dependent upon spellcasters.

I'd give the Fighter, as class features:

Blindsense/Blindsight/Tremorsense: for pinpointing those invisible opponents.

Ghost Hunter: the ability to interact with incorporeal objects and creatures as though they were material.

Daring Agility: Stunt-like abilities to rapidly move across hostile terrain, including swinging and climbing and jumping vast distances. A Climb Speed or limited Fly speed which has to begin on solid ground (you jump really high) might be a good thing to have, maybe as a limited use per day/encounter mechanic.

The Class Itself:

Keeping track of 20+ feats is very daunting for many players. Instead of bonus feats, I'd advocate for special Fighter Feats which scale with class level or BAB. At certain points they gain more abilities granted by the feat. For example, one can turn the Weapon Focus feat into a Scaling feat; I'd recommend extending it beyond a single weapon, and into a group of related weapons (swords, polearms, blunt weapons, etc). This will cut down on book-keeping and give Fighter players more bang for their buck when making choices.

Now for the 1st/2nd level Feats you have:

Granting skills as class skills is underpowered, especially when multi-class options make them class skills. Grant bonuses to the skills, aka Skill Focus, and allow the Fighter to Take 10 even if rushed or distracted at 8th level or higher.

Make Listen and Spot class skills: No feat necessary. Perception of one's surroundings are vital skills for warriors, both in the real world and in many works of fiction. Having them as class skills significantly helps the Fighter detect hidden threats.

I'll make more comments upon further analysis.

Cidolfas
2013-03-08, 02:50 AM
Making the fighter even more of a feat monkey only makes it slightly less of a noob trap. If you pick crappy feats, which constitute a lot of the feats available in core works, you pretty much screw yourself over and your character is this totally dependent on taking the few good feats that exist. It doesn't create any sense of quality assurance to me, more like a way to make the fighter feel more special while in actuality screwing him over.

Ashtagon
2013-03-08, 02:59 AM
Please rename the Naturist feat. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Gnorman
2013-03-08, 03:00 AM
I agree. More feats don't solve the fighter's issues. The ability to swap out feats on a daily basis is the better way to handle it, I think.

That being said, better feats isn't a bad idea either.


Please rename the Naturist feat. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Second. I think you mean "Naturalist."

Wargamer
2013-03-08, 04:31 AM
I'd give the Fighter, as class features:

Blindsense/Blindsight/Tremorsense: for pinpointing those invisible opponents.

Ghost Hunter: the ability to interact with incorporeal objects and creatures as though they were material.

Daring Agility: Stunt-like abilities to rapidly move across hostile terrain, including swinging and climbing and jumping vast distances. A Climb Speed or limited Fly speed which has to begin on solid ground (you jump really high) might be a good thing to have, maybe as a limited use per day/encounter mechanic.
What sort of level would you suggest a Fighter should start receiving these bonuses?


Some minor tweaks made to the class; more will follow later.

Libertad
2013-03-08, 03:36 PM
Well, Shadows and Wraiths are Challenge Rating 3 monsters (although quite difficult for level 3 parties), as are Ethereal Filchers. Phase Spiders are CR 5.

Ghost Hunter should be something a Fighter can use a limited amount of times per day (or once per encounter): once at 4th level, twice at 6th level, and so on. Its duration should be a number of rounds equal to the Fighter's level (or BAB if you want to be multi-class friendly).

For the senses, I'd rank the abilities in terms of versatility, from least to greatest: Blindsense-Tremorsense-Blindsight.

Blindsense detects the square an opponent's in, but said opponent still has total concealment (and as such can still Sneak Attack), is denied its Dex bonus to AC against said opponent, and still moves slowly in poor visibility.

Tremorsense is more precise, except it only works on creatures touching the ground.

Blindsight is pretty much super-senses, but a non-visual one.

Invisibility is a 2nd level spell (3rd level Wizard), and lasts 1 minute per caster level. Greater Invisibility is a 4th level spell (7th level Wizard), and lasts 1 round per caster level (except it allows attacks while invisible).

Pixies can turn invisible at will (CR 4). So can the Will-O-Wisp (CR 6). And the Invisible Stalker (CR 7). The Warlock class (Complete Arcane) can do an at-will invisibility at Level 6.

So I'd put Blindsense 30 feet as a 5-6th level Fighter ability. He can still find the opponents, but he's still at a slight disadvantage. The Tome of Battle grants a similar effect for 9th level Martial Adepts, but I think that this comes too late (as evidenced by the CR and levels above).

I'd put Blindsight 30 feet as an 11th level Fighter ability. It pretty much negates Sneak Attacks and Stealth checks; Rogues will need to rely on feinting and other means of catching the Fighter flat-footed.

For Daring Agility: Monsters capable of flight are really common in Dungeons & Dragons, even at low levels. Air Elementals (CR 1-11), True Dragons (CR 1-28), Griffon (CR 4), Erinyes Devil (CR 7), Dire Bat (CR 2), Cargoyle (CR 4), Pixie (CR 4), half-celestial, half-fiend, and ghost templates (+2 CR), Hippogriff (CR 2), Spider Eater (CR 3), Nightmare (CR 5)... you get the idea.

Even the low CR ones can move pretty fast! Nightmare can move 90 feet!

And Fly is a 3rd level spell (1 minute per level). Overland Flight is 4th level (1 hour per level!).

Normally a melee character has a ranged weapon as back-up, but in D&D 3rd Edition he'll do pitiful amounts of damage unless he specializes in archery feat trees.

Daring Agility, I'd grant it at 3rd level. Once per encounter (or 3 times per day), get a Climb and Fly Speed of 30 feet. The ability's activated as a free action. The Fly Speed is limited (must begin on a solid surface), meaning that the Fighter can fall if he ends his movement in mid-air. The duration is for 2 rounds per Fighter level (or BAB). No this will not equalize true flight, so I'd up the speed by 10 feet every level after 3rd.

I'd recommend doing a per encounter format rather than a per day one for abilities.

Although the flying enemy ties into another problem with D&D, and this class feature isn't a true solution across the board (what about the Barbarian, Ranger, and Rogue?). For further ideas, I'd suggest a "wingclipper" attack (successful attack reduces enemy fly speed to 0, affects both normal and magical flight).

Libertad
2013-03-08, 04:38 PM
Your feats (ones I didn't cover):

1st/2nd:

Brutal Strike: Strength Modifier damage won't do a lot, especially at higher levels. I'd recommend making it a once-per-encounter ability where the Fighter converts a normal attack into a touch attack. He wallops the enemy so hard the blow goes through the armor.

Weapon Focus/Specialization feat tree: Make the whole feat tree one feat which scales with level.

Naturalist and Suave class skills: Grant these automatically as class skills, no feat needed.

Shield Another: Nifty, except the Fighter and the person he's guarding gain the Shield Bonus to AC. Also, allow him to move adjacent to an ally within 30 feet as a swift action once per encounter.

Intimidating Reputation: Lose the bonus, grant the ability to demoralize an opponent in battle as a swift action.

Imp. Intimidating Reputation: Grant the ability to demoralize all opponents within 30 feet.

Demoralize (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm) makes for a convenient "de-buffing" tactic in combat.

Determined Feats: Unnecessary, and don't really grant anything. If anything, allow Fighters the ability to just ignore ability score requirements for fighter bonus feats. I'd recommend turning Two-Weapon Fighting feat tree into a single scaling feat, and Ambusher into a scaling feat (Also allow the ability to feint in combat as a swift action at 4th level).

Give Power Attack as a free feat at 3rd level: And can be used with light and off-hand weapons.

Mettle: Don't allow this as a bonus feat, give it to the Fighter for free. Also give the Fighter Evasion for free as well, perhaps at 9th level.

Important Note:* I'm making these suggestions upon the assumption of cutting down on the number of bonus feats you have. One bonus feat per level is too much, and will just inundate players in an information overload. I highly recommend focusing not on making more feats, but making your existing feats do more things and better things.

A question I have: do you plan on using this in your games as a PC option? How optimized overall are your players? Are they more "casual" gamers, or do they err on the side of heavy optimization and powerful options?

Your Fighter class variant is only slightly more powerful than the standard option, and as such won't be very powerful and versatile at middle-higher levels in comparison to most other classes. Optimized players won't choose it in favor of other combat-oriented classes and options, while unoptimized players can easily get screwed over with poor feat choices and get easily shown up by spellcasters (even by accident or deliberate optimization, this has happened many times in 3rd Edition).

Super_slash2
2013-03-08, 06:38 PM
I'll be honest - I don't really play DnD. And even less, I played Pathfinder for a few sessions before the group disbanded.

But if I understood it correctly, the main issue with Fighters was that they were not versatile. In addition to having weaknesses, they were also very limited in their strengths. You've tried to solve it by giving them more skills and feats but the core issue iirc is that :

a) The feats they get aren't varied/strong enough to make full use of their bonus feat intake.

b) The NATURE of the feat list makes it so that you are unable to match a caster in power.

If this is true, then you won't solve the issue by simply tweaking what skills and what feats they get. You'd need to fundamentally shift it from the ground up.

I had an idea where you simply got a new skill type for martial classes called : Martial. And putting a bunch of basic feats and tricks like tripping and charging under it to use it for checks. Then as you gained higher levels, the more "supernatural" it got until you could, for example, counterspell a caster by glaring at them really fiercely and stuff.

Maybe it's something to think about? And it's probably wrong I haven't played the game much at all, like I said before. But if I were to suggest a fix, it would be to change the actual dynamics of the class because it seems broken from the very ground up in a magic setting.

Wargamer
2013-03-08, 06:50 PM
I don't know if I'll be using this as a PC / NPC or not in my campaigns. At present, we're running a random-stat campaign and so full optimisation is tricky for the players, but at least two are playing to a theme rather than an optimisation goal.

This is just a flying visit, so I'll do a repost sometime in the next day or so with some of your advice applied. ;)