Custom Lamellar Armor

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Spoilering a bunch of back story.

I have a set of chainmail from a dragon horde that has a non magical +2 Armor bonus from it's material; meteoric iron. I want to melt it down to create heavy armor, but there isn't enough to make full plate.

I want to make armor with the stats of OA Great Armor. The character that will be wearing it will be making it himself. He is a western character that has visited Rokugan and been able to observe Samurai Armor up close and has even looted a set and inspected it. He's back in generic medieval fantasy country and wants to craft a set of armor.

The problem is he's not a Samurai, but is recognized as a member of the Crab Clan. We participated in a sort of open contest called the 30 goblin winter were anyone who brought back 30 goblin bakimono heads before the first day of spring could become a member of the Hido family. As cool as this is, it means I can't just say "I'm a Ronin" and strike a bad ass pose; I'm a Warblade 3/Swordsage 1/Crusader1 in an E6 world.

I want to melt down some "special material" chainmail and make armor with the stats of OA Great armor. This armor has to not be "Samurai" armor, I can have a little grey area being the leader/craziest of a crazy gaijin party that's known for being competent and general do gooding. Here's what I have to work with.

1. I have blacksmithing with knowledge of western armor. I could mix western pieces/designs in though they'd have to not require more metal than Great Armor, limited "special material" is my main motivation for great armor over full plate.

2. I've been to Rokugan and inspected Samurai armor closely including looted set.

3. I won't be using a helmet, because PC's don't need helmets, so that should be a huge step towards it not clearly being Samurai armor rather than superior Ashigaru armor like these guys wear.

http://www.l5r.cz/spoiler/btd/AshigaruElite.jpg

Does this seem reasonable? Oh, preemptively don't say "ask your DM" I have what seems like a solid plan to me, but I don't want to make a case to him and have it approved if it isn't actually reasonable.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Pathfinder has a good set of Eastern armor and weapons, (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/easternArmorAndWeapons.html) including lamellar. I know PF isn't really compatable in 3.5, but armor statistics haven't changed in PF from 3.5.

Hope they could at least give you some ideas.

[ArcturusV]

Well... I mean it depends. If you model it after Ashigaru armor that could end up being "dishonorable" if you ever end up back in Rokugan and they hear of it. Wearing "Peasant" armor.

Which makes me think that normal Great Armor is perfectly fine for you. I mean if you were declared a member of the Samurai Caste by right of arms as your backstory suggests, it could be seen as dishonorable and a slight to your daimyo if you do wear "peasant" armor and be suitably honorable for you to wear Great Armor. I mean being "part of the crab clan" means you're in the Samurai caste. People who aren't nobles aren't part of the clan, they're just Heiman.

But since you say it can't be "Samurai" armor I presume this means you're in some awkward arrangement where you are not quite entirely Samurai but aren't exactly Heiman. This would suggest the rules that Shugenja follow if anything for a basis. Able to wear the armor and such but prohibited from carrying a Katana as that implies you are a samurai.

All of this sounds more or less reasonable to me.

[Deaxsa]

off topic: isn't ashigaru elite kind of an oxy-moron? "peasant elite"

on topic: i think there are lamellar armor stats in oriental adventures.

edit: yep, page 76. it gives: medium armor, +5 armor, 3 max dex, -4 ACP, 30% ASF, weighs 35 lbs.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Ya, I think I'm an odd case. The terms of the contest were supposed to be "successful hunters become members of the Hido Family" and we were just told we were Crabs, so I'm pretty sure we got stiffed because we're "crazy gaijin".


off topic: isn't ashigaru elite kind of an oxy-moron? "peasant elite"

I was looking at the Ashigaru entry in the L5R wikia (some stuff there may contradict Japanese History, but it's primary source for our game's Rokugan) and it says that Ashigaru are both peasents and Buke (the lowest rank of samurai) so I thought Ashigaru weren't strictly peasants. On a second look though, the armor of those Ashigaru Elite's armor looks more like Partial Armor which is what level one Samurai wear. Elite is probably all Buke and members of Ashigaru families. The wikia says members of Ashigaru families serve mainly as guards, doshin(low level law enforcement) and scouts in times of peace, obviously a step above true peasants. So I guess the question should have been "When does partial armor become great armor?"

It is a very awkward situation isn't it? It seems like I should be a Buke or Ji-Samurai and the only thing keeping them from wearing Great Armor is a lack of money, which isn't a problem for me.


Pathfinder has a good set of Eastern armor and weapons, (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/combat/easternArmorAndWeapons.html) including lamellar.

Interesting, O-Yoroi has looks like it has the same relationship to PF plate as Great Armor has to Plate. Mountain Pattern could be good if I got it approved.

Based on ArcturusV's advice and reviewing the wikia I think I may say screw it and make Great Armor also I probably won't be back in Rokugan for awhile so I may be epic when I return. No, need to worry about carrying a daisho, my character's a longsword guy and has the Sword of the Last Citadel.

To give a little more background the main theme of the game is my character and his unarmed Swordsage companion (there's a third party member who's a Psychic Rogue) trying to be the first Masters of Nine. We're in a world that hasn't had a Raeshar, so there are a bunch of schools that teach a style consisting of two ToB disciplines. At this point I have maneuvers from every school except setting sun.


on topic: i think there are lamellar armor stats in oriental adventures.

edit: yep, page 76. it gives: medium armor, +5 armor, 3 max dex, -4 ACP, 30% ASF, weighs 35 lbs.

I should have worded the title better. Though there is an armor called "Lamellar Armor" the descriptions of other kinds of armor suggest they use the Lamellar technique.

From Ashigaru-made of laced metal plates

From Great Armor-a full suit of armor formed from small metal plates tied together with colored leather lacings

From Lamellar-It consists of small,overlapping plates of metal sewn together or stitched to a backing of leather or cloth.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Other historical armors that used this type of technique:

- Byzantine Verangian Armor (http://pneymatiko.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/varangianguarddrawingom31.jpg)
- Of course there is Roman Armor (http://www.valiantarms.com/medieval-armor-images/imperial-roman-armor-8203.jpg)

[Coidzor]

So... what exactly do you want? A complete fluff design for eastern-western hybrid lamellar or laminar armor that uses the same stats as great armor that will pass muster with the DM for not exceeding the amount of metal in a suit of chainmail?

Simply augmenting the completed suit of armor with ostentation from your home-culture would satisfy having it appear sufficiently different from their armor even if it is derived from study of a captured suit of armor.

I don't know the exact metallurgy, but since you're skipping the helmet and getting the coif melted down with the rest for materials it seems plausible that you'd be able to get a western style cuirass along with lamellar or what-have-you for the protection of the groin and limbs. You may actually have enough metal on hand for the plate portion of plate armor.

Edit: Pendanticism: I looted the dragon's hoard after slaughtering the orcish horde.