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View Full Version : Help needed Wiz forgery spell line. (3.5e)



y2kjman
2013-03-07, 09:17 PM
As the title says, I am currently looking for a spell in the wiz/sorc tables that magically creates forgeries. I havent been able to google one up either, so it might not exist. If so, I request a homebrewer to supply one if possible.

I would also ask that if there is time that there be more than one.

Example:
Cantrip = Decent forgery = DC 15 to spot
3rd = blah blah = DC 20
5th = blah blah = DC 25

Numbers to be picked by homebrewer though, I am horrible at this balancing thing.

Thanks ahead of time for those willing to help.

inuyasha
2013-03-07, 09:21 PM
hmm i think 1e had this...
also isnt forgerie a skill?

y2kjman
2013-03-07, 09:25 PM
It is, though for fluff I would like to have spells that my wizard "researched." Obviously DM dependent.

y2kjman
2013-03-08, 08:47 AM
I will make an attempt, though this is probably gonna be way out of whack... if you have any suggestions I am open to them.

Minor Forgery
Conjuration This or illusion were my thoughts, though if illusion would allow a will save to disbelieve?
Level: sor/wiz 0, bard 0
Component: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: one parchment
Duration: Permanent
Saving throw: None
Spell resistance: No

The document is written through magical means, this creates a non-magical document that functions in every way as a normal parchment. DC for spotting this as a forgery is 10 + CL. Components are the parchment and a quill.


Forgery
Conjuration This or illusion were my thoughts, though if illusion would allow a will save to disbelieve?
Level: sor/wiz 4
Component: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: one parchment
Duration: Permanent
Saving throw: None
Spell resistance: No

The document is written through magical means, this creates a non-magical document that functions in every way as a normal parchment. DC for spotting this as a forgery is 20 + CL. Components are the parchment and a quill.


Major Forgery
Conjuration This or illusion were my thoughts, though if illusion would allow a will save to disbelieve?
Level: sor/wiz 8
Component: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: one parchment
Duration: Permanent
Saving throw: None
Spell resistance: No

The document is written through magical means, this creates a non-magical document that functions in every way as a normal parchment.

The document is literally perfect in every way, the only ways to determine the document is a forgery are: Lesser wish, wish, miracle, or a true seeing effect. In the case of True Seeing the observer must still make a forgery detection check with a DC of 30 + CL. This check is automatic.

The fluff/DCs/components need work most likely.

Yitzi
2013-03-08, 09:44 AM
Seems it should work...assuming, of course, that your goal is for the wizard to be even better at making the rogue useless than he already is.

y2kjman
2013-03-08, 10:39 AM
I do not believe we will have a rogue class or equivalent. That being said it would be DM dependent anyways and that might put a crimp in it.

Either way, im not sure that the DCs are balanced. That and the abilities on Major Forgery. I am hoping to have the. Fully fleshed out before requesting this ho ebrew be aded to the campaign though.

Deviston
2013-03-08, 01:24 PM
Just a quick question...


Petty Officer Jeph Bales: Uh... Captian? I just got this change of orders in my inbox, but you never told me about it. What's up?

Captain Jardir Ahmahn: Lemme see dat! Well... looks like my signature. It's in my handwriting... but I don't remember writing this. Well, seeing as how I have no Wish spell (just roll with it) I must have written it. Pack yer shat Petty Officer! Yer off to the wardwall front lines!


Just clarifying, is this how it could be used? Or, even though it appears to be perfect in every way, would Captain Ahmahn still react to its falsity seeing as how he knows for a fact he didn't write it?

Edit: Additionally, what if there is another Captain Ahmahn for ANOTHER military force? How would the caster differentiate which Captain the spell should attempt to emulate? Would an additional material compnent be an example of the intended writer's... writing? Or maybe a personal object that the spell could imprint via the owner's essense? Or does the spell know who you are intending to impersonate?

Yitzi
2013-03-08, 01:47 PM
I do not believe we will have a rogue class or equivalent. That being said it would be DM dependent anyways and that might put a crimp in it.

Either way, im not sure that the DCs are balanced. That and the abilities on Major Forgery. I am hoping to have the. Fully fleshed out before requesting this ho ebrew be aded to the campaign though.


"Balanced" essentially means "is not substantially more powerful than other ways of doing it"; if there are no rogue classes (and thus no other ways of doing forgeries), the question becomes sort of meaningless.

y2kjman
2013-03-08, 02:15 PM
Just a quick question...


Petty Officer Jeph Bales: Uh... Captian? I just got this change of orders in my inbox, but you never told me about it. What's up?

Captain Jardir Ahmahn: Lemme see dat! Well... looks like my signature. It's in my handwriting... but I don't remember writing this. Well, seeing as how I have no Wish spell (just roll with it) I must have written it. Pack yer shat Petty Officer! Yer off to the wardwall front lines!


Just clarifying, is this how it could be used? Or, even though it appears to be perfect in every way, would Captain Ahmahn still react to its falsity seeing as how he knows for a fact he didn't write it?

Edit: Additionally, what if there is another Captain Ahmahn for ANOTHER military force? How would the caster differentiate which Captain the spell should attempt to emulate? Would an additional material compnent be an example of the intended writer's... writing? Or maybe a personal object that the spell could imprint via the owner's essense? Or does the spell know who you are intending to impersonate?
I do agree on the components it does need to be changed, my thought it to make it either an example of document to be forged, something owned by the signatory or both?

+1/2 CL to DC if you have one or the other...+1 CL to DC if you have both?

I do see that as a possible situation, there are few ways a DM would work with that. Though a lot of organizations leaders delegate things and there are signatures by proxy. I have seen both a "stamp" replication of signature and signing by proxy, this may add a bit of confusion to this specific situation. Otherwise I agree, maybe adding that if the document is brought to the attention of the signatory an automatic Detect forgery check is attempted with DM discretion penalty?

Example, a leader of a very small group would know exactly what he signs at all times so automatic success but a leader of a very large organization sometimes signs things without remembering.

Deviston
2013-03-08, 02:26 PM
Example of document: 1/2 CL
Item owned by signatory: 1/2 CL
Both: full CL

I would say anything brought to the "signatory's" attention would be circumspect. Should it be (as you say) a small organization the jig is up. Say... 50 men or less. Or 500 gp worth of transactions daily or less. Or 5000 pounds of freight shipped daily or less. Etc etc etc.

But with a larger organization, it becomes an RP window. Do you want the PC's to easily get what they want? Or do you want them to WORK for it? Does he ask his aide? Does he know he would never send away his prized coffee pourer and seek to "get to the bottom of this"? Or is he normally so drunk off couzi that he couldn't care less if the Shar'Dama'Ka himself entered his office?

Cogidubnus
2013-03-09, 06:31 AM
DM in question here.

Firstly, what's to stop you using illusion spells to make your papers *look* like the ones you want, psychic-paper style? I'd be willing to allow a Sleight-of-Hand check to cover up the somatic and verbal components (sleight-of-tongue, as it were).

Or use the Forgery skill in conjunction with a spell to create the forgery in a single round? I feel that one would still have to know how to make a good forgery for any magically-made ones to be convincing.