Ranking Schools of Magic

[Talderas]

I know that some schools are more valuable than others and some are more valuable at certain levels than others.

What I would like to do is is lean on the collective wisdom of these forums to rank the eight schools of magic into five tiers in a couple of different categories. I recognize that some may be more potent at different level ranges than others so what I would like to see is a couple of different rankings.

Overall - How do the schools rank over 0th-9th compared against each other.
Low-Level - 0th-3rd
Mid-Level - 4th-6th
High-Level - 7th-9th

Please try to account for outliers when making your rankings. For example, don't over value Abjuration at high level just because of Mind Blank if the rest of the school isn't so great. In other words, don't assume total optimization and instead assume that a DM would be willing to nerf the outliers.

[Alleran]

I'd put Conjuration on top (at all levels, really), followed by Transmutation. Then Necromancy, then Illusion, then Abjuration, then Evocation, then Enchantment (when a 1st-level spell can nullify a good chunk of your school's theme, you have a problem).

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'd put Conjuration on top (at all levels, really), followed by Transmutation. Then Necromancy, then Illusion, then Abjuration, then Evocation, then Enchantment (when a 1st-level spell can nullify a good chunk of your school's theme, you have a problem).

Ya, all this also Necrotic Cyst let's Necromancy steal a lot of Enchantment's out of combat thunder.

At low levels I might put Enchantment higher; sleep is one of the best 1st level combat spells and charm person can be the gift that keeps on giving. I'm tempted to move Necromancy down, because single target debuffs aren't going to be useful/worth a spell in a lot of fights, but command undead is very breakable.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'd say that Conjuration and Transmutation are the top two for just all levels. Lower levels tend to favor Conjuration, while higher levels favor Transmutation. It eventually comes down to Shapechange versus Gate.

After that, I'd actually go Illusion, Abjuration, Necromancy, Evocation and Enchantment, in that order. Illusion gets back most of the Evocation school, sans 9ths, Abjuration has Dispel Magic and company, and Necromancy has minions not unlike Conjuration.

[Answerer]

I feel like low-to-mid level Necromancy spells are better than the highest. Necromancy is a prime target for Incantatrix's late ban, for example.

Also, ranking the schools depends heavily on which list we're talking about, and the rest of the party composition. The Cleric list has some useful Evocations that are more than/other than just blasting, but Clerics don't usually care too much about which school things are. Abjuration is a very powerful school, but can be a safe ban for Wizards if they're partied with a Cleric because the best Abjurations are also on the Cleric list. And so on.

Conjuration and Transmutation are clearly on top, Enchantment and Evocation are generally on the bottom, but the middle gets murkier and in some cases Enchantment and Evocation can do better than normal (Enchantment is fantastic in a heavily low-level-humanoid political campaign, for example, and Evocation has contingency, probably the most powerful spell in the game).

But yeah, I'll stand by Conjuration and Transmutation on top. Conjuration's probably a bit better, but that depends on how far you stretch the polymorph cheese.

[Talderas]

I feel like low-to-mid level Necromancy spells are better than the highest. Necromancy is a prime target for Incantatrix's late ban, for example.

Also, ranking the schools depends heavily on which list we're talking about, and the rest of the party composition. The Cleric list has some useful Evocations that are more than/other than just blasting, but Clerics don't usually care too much about which school things are. Abjuration is a very powerful school, but can be a safe ban for Wizards if they're partied with a Cleric because the best Abjurations are also on the Cleric list. And so on.

Conjuration and Transmutation are clearly on top, Enchantment and Evocation are generally on the bottom, but the middle gets murkier and in some cases Enchantment and Evocation can do better than normal (Enchantment is fantastic in a heavily low-level-humanoid political campaign, for example, and Evocation has contingency, probably the most powerful spell in the game).

But yeah, I'll stand by Conjuration and Transmutation on top. Conjuration's probably a bit better, but that depends on how far you stretch the polymorph cheese.

Good points. My reasons is that I am working on a homebrewed master specialist standard class. So I have a couple of major problems I'm trying to contend with.

The first is prohibiting schools. I want to prohibit three schools but I want to make sure that any single specialist doesn't end up with only the worst schools prohibited to it or another has all the best schools prohibited. Balance is key and that is partly the reason for why I'm looking for low/mid/high level resolution on the schools rather than overall.

The second is that by knowing which schools are the most potent I can offset that by giving it a class ability related to its school of specialization. So if Conjuration and Transmutation are the most powerful, I probably don't want to permit a master conjurer to have transmutation and vice verse and I will probably make their benefits less potent than the benefits gained by the other specializations

The third, and this is really a combination of the 1st and 2nd, is to make the class a compelling choice for a standard class over either a sorcerer or wizard.

[Answerer]

Crystal plated armor is a bad idea? There is a lot to be said about light-weight ablative armor. :smalltongue:
Huh? What does this have to do with anything in the thread?

[Snowbluff]

Enchantment can be pretty sweet. Power Word: Pain is awesome.


Huh? What does this have to do with anything in the thread?

How did that happen?! Excuse me, but I have to go and put that in the right thread. :smalltongue:

[Story]

I'm tempted to move Necromancy down, because single target debuffs aren't going to be useful/worth a spell in a lot of fights, but command undead is very breakable.

At low level, Necromancy gets Ray of Enfeeblement, False Life, Kelgore's Grave Mist and the infamous Shivering Touch. Unfortunately, the higher level spells aren't as good.

[Xerxus]

Illusion allows you to use your imagination like no other school can.

It's the best because it's the most fun.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Power wise illusion is as strong as your imagination and bluff skill. I do love the level 1 sphere of annihilation.

[Xervous]

of course, illusion can be horribly nerfed by narrow minded, unimaginative, boring DMs who have unfavorable interpretations of what situations grant a saving throw vs. illusions.

[ZamielVanWeber]

That is why I advocated Bluff. Gives you a mechanical backing to keep them the entire thing legit.

[Gildedragon]

Note that illusion can imitate other schools (evocation and conjugation in particular)

As such (outside of higher level spells) illusion can be more useful to have.

[tadkins]

A thread regarding magic schools and there's not one mention of Divination. How come?

[Answerer]

A thread regarding magic schools and there's not one mention of Divination. How come?
Can't ban it, so... not too much to discuss? It's phenomenally powerful so it's not like anyone would, but it's also not Conjuration or Transmutation.

Also, I think this is a pretty good analysis (http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19557/what-wizard-schools-are-best-to-specialize-in-which-schools-are-best-to-sacrifi/19558#19558) for Wizards anyway.

[Ravens_cry]

Enchantment can be devistating, potentially anyway. It's very binary though. It tends to be either a encounter winner or it does nothing. I was able to turn around a TPK into a win through spamming a first level spell (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/murderousCommand.html).

[Snowbluff]

Note that illusion can imitate other schools (evocation and conjugation in particular)


Yeah, but it adds a save for lesser effect. It doesn't help much. :smallfrown:

[Gildedragon]

Sure it does; unless you specialize to make those illusions super-real. Disbelieve for more damage

[Fates]

Enchantment can be pretty sweet. Power Word: Pain is awesome.


I like to pretend that spell doesn't exist. In fact, in my campaigns, it doesn't.
Still, I agree, enchantment isn't always as weak as it's made out to be. Unless you're DM is really prepared to counter your enchantment spells, you can really wreak havoc.


That being said, I think it's hard to rank the different schools of magic, because so much of it is just based on what you're trying to accomplish and what kind of character you want to play.

[Story]

Sure it does; unless you specialize to make those illusions super-real. Disbelieve for more damage

It also adds SR. Which is fine for your Shadow Fireballs. For Shadow Orbs of Fire, not so much.

[Pickford]

I know that some schools are more valuable than others and some are more valuable at certain levels than others.

What I would like to do is is lean on the collective wisdom of these forums to rank the eight schools of magic into five tiers in a couple of different categories. I recognize that some may be more potent at different level ranges than others so what I would like to see is a couple of different rankings.

Overall - How do the schools rank over 0th-9th compared against each other.
Low-Level - 0th-3rd
Mid-Level - 4th-6th
High-Level - 7th-9th

Please try to account for outliers when making your rankings. For example, don't over value Abjuration at high level just because of Mind Blank if the rest of the school isn't so great. In other words, don't assume total optimization and instead assume that a DM would be willing to nerf the outliers.

Forget Mind Blank: Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Imprisonment and Prismatic Wall are good enough.

Favorite spells:

0th - Detect Poison (Div); 1st - True Strike (Div); 2nd - Ray of Stupidity (Ench); 3rd - Dispel Magic (Abj); 4th - Burning Blood (Necro); 5th - Prismatic Ray (Evo); 6th - Disintigrate (Trans); 7th - Limited Wish (Uni); 8th - Moment of Prescience (Div)/Prismatic Wall (Abj); 9th - Imprisonment (Abj)/Foresight (Div);

Based on that list, Div or Abj for low/high, tossup for mid.

[Psyren]

I'd put Conjuration on top (at all levels, really), followed by Transmutation. Then Necromancy, then Illusion, then Abjuration, then Evocation, then Enchantment (when a 1st-level spell can nullify a good chunk of your school's theme, you have a problem).

Illusion above Necromancy (shadow spells and low-level defense e.g. Mirror Image), otherwise I agree with this.

[HunterOfJello]

Conjuration - God Tier at all levels

Trasmutation - High Tier at low levels, God Tier at high levels

Illusion - variable High Tier at all levels, depending on how creative the player is (God Tier at very low levels for Color Spray and ghost sound, because what the hell else are you going to cast at those levels?)

Necromancy - Low tier at low levels, iirc. Mid tier at higher levels. (several good spells are here, but it can be used to great effect or ignored without repercussion)

Enchantment - Mid tier at lower levels. Low tier at higher levels. (has a smattering of amazing spells, but falls flat once creatures with high will saves, SR, and immunity to mind-affecting show up)

Evocation - Low tier at low levels. Mid tier at higher levels. The false trap school is a trap for newbs and a great school for more experienced players who cherry pick the best spells out of it that do damage + have riders.

Divination - Variable tier at low to mid levels. High tier at high levels. Variable because it's better or worse depending on which class you're playing. Clerics using divinations can be pretty damn handy at low levels.

Abjuration - Mid Tier for lower levels. High tier for higher levels. Want to ^%&@ up some enemy mages? Then you better prepare some abjuration spells. (A wizard who goes outside his tower without a Mind Blank on himself for the rest of the day is just an idiot.)

~

My opinions are currently under review. I reserve the right to change them as I see fit.

[Lupus753]

I have heard that, when it comes to optimization, Vaar did everything wrong. As such, Conjuration must be awesome while Evocation and Enchantment are bottom of the barrel. Makes sense, since Conjuration lets you Teleport. Don't know about Enchantment, but the Evocation list (glanced at from an SRD site) doesn't look that impressive.

[ericgrau]

I think perceptions have never recovered from internet hyperbole, where 2nd place means last place and sometimes means mostly. I'd say Conj > Evoc > Trans > Illus > Necr > Abjur > Ench > Div.

If we're doing this by level I'd say necr is 2 steps higher at low level, while abjur is 1-2 steps higher at high level. Others have their low spots but are mostly good from start to finish and don't change that much.

[dwlc2000]

Conjuration number 1!

[Story]

Evoc > Trans

Really now? Contigency is good and all, but it can't hold a candle to freaking Shapechange.

And unlike Evocation, Transmutation has more than a few good spells. Alter Self, Rope Trick, Shrink Item, Polymorph, Overland Flight, Shapechange and Time Stop are all essential spells just from core (PAO is too broken for my tastes).

Outside of core you've got staples like Nerveskitter, Heart of Water and Heart of Earth.


The only way Evocation can possibly deserve your 2nd place ranking is if you use shenanigans to grab Miracle. And even then, Shapechange is arguably better.

[Zeb]

Conjuration: It does anything, splats really make it shine and if you cant do it then summon something that can.
Transmutation: A little lite on the direct damage but when you can be anything than does it really mater?
Illusion: The only limit is your imagination/DM and with shadow coping of other schools and some of the best defense in the game its not to shabby.
Abjuration: Slightly edges out Evocation mostly because of explosive runes and better splat support.
Necromancy>=Enchantment since enchantment can be shut down easier
Divination: falls to the bottom, yes knowledge is power but you need something else to act on that information.

The top three I could use all by themselves and be fine. The next four are fun to build around but could use some help.

[Psyren]

I have heard that, when it comes to optimization, Vaar did everything wrong. As such, Conjuration must be awesome while Evocation and Enchantment are bottom of the barrel. Makes sense, since Conjuration lets you Teleport. Don't know about Enchantment, but the Evocation list (glanced at from an SRD site) doesn't look that impressive.

Enchantment is great at low levels, and it works very well in OotS since apparently nobody uses Pro: Evil.

Banning Conj is a bad idea in general of course. V has Polymorph but only used it once, in the most trivial of ways.

[Talderas]

There seems to be a pretty strong consensus that Conjuration and Transmutation are the overall two best schools of magic. I've decided for my homebrew to eschew Divination as a school and make it instead universal (since it's already benefited in core by only having to sacrifice 1 school). The other consensus is that Enchantment and Evocation are at the bottom.

Tier 1: Conjuration & Transmutation
Tier 2: Illusion
Tier 3: Abjuration & Necromancy
Tier 4: Enchantment & Evocation (Sandal would be disappointed)

This led me to create a circle of schools which I used to determine the prohibited schools for each specialization (three total prohibited schools).

Conjuration <> Necromancy <> Enchantment <> Transmutation <> Abjuration <> Illusion <> Evocation <> Conjuration

{table=head]Specialization|Available|Choose One|Prohibited
Abjuration|Illusion, Transmutation|Enchantment, Evocation|Conjuration, Necromancy
Conjuration|Evocation, Necromancy| Enchantment, Illusion|Abjuration, Transmutation
Enchantment|Necromancy, Transmutation|Abjuration, Conjuration|Evocation, Illusion
Evocation|Conjuration, Illusion|Abjuration, Necromancy|Enchantment, Transmutation
Illusion|Abjuration, Evocation|Conjuration, Transmutation|Enchantment, Necromancy
Necromancy|Conjuration, Enchantment|Evocation, Transmutation|Abjuration, Illusion
Transmutation|Abjuration, Enchantment|Illusion, Necromancy|Conjuration, Evocation
[/table]

Given the above chart of schools, are there any schools that are more potent than the others?

[Answerer]

Abjuration has Evocation listed under both Available and Choose One, and no Transmutation listed at all. Also, Enchanters can't get Illusion? Very odd choice. Though that does help somewhat with the fact that it's the only specialization that gets both Conjuration and Transmutation, since they cannot get contingency or greater shadow evocation.

[Story]

Necromancy also gets Conjuration and Transmutation. That's the one I'd pick.

[Answerer]

Necromancy also gets Conjuration and Transmutation. That's the one I'd pick.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I missed that. Though again, can't get those if you also want contingency somehow. Also a problem if there's not a Cleric available for dispel magic et al.

[Talderas]

Abjuration has Evocation listed under both Available and Choose One, and no Transmutation listed at all. Also, Enchanters can't get Illusion? Very odd choice. Though that does help somewhat with the fact that it's the only specialization that gets both Conjuration and Transmutation, since they cannot get contingency or greater shadow evocation.

Thanks. I corrected that. Abjuration would get Illusion and Transmutation always available.

[jywu98]

Conjuration and Transmutation are by far the best schools of magic. It is followed by Illusion, which has a lot of utility. I would rank Abjuration above Necromancy, but they are quite close. Enchantment is useful at lower levels but is easily countered by a single spell at higher levels, and I don't remember Evocation being useful at all.

And about the specialization thing, I would also pick Necromancy, as it gets access to both Conjuration and Transmutation.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I am with Rich Burlow on Divination needing to lose 2 schools like everyone else, espevially since they have been given enourmous buffs in splat books. Do not know if that matters, but I would recommend considering it.

[Answerer]

I don't remember Evocation being useful at all.
Well, contingency is the best spell in the game, and so ridiculous that at sufficient levels of optimization there's actually a distinct power split between those who have it and those who don't.

Yes, there's Craft Contingent Spell (sadly), but that's frequently banned. Illusion can let you do a greater shadow evocation of contingency, though that is several levels late, and both of his combinations that get both Conjuration and Transmutation lose both Evocation and Illusion.

That said, I... feel like these combinations would be gratingly arbitrary in play. I don't really like this solution to the problem. Better to have actual focused casters a la Beguiler.

[Story]

Evocation also gets Dweomer of Transference, Invoke Magic, and Miracle, which may be important in high op.

[Talderas]

That said, I... feel like these combinations would be gratingly arbitrary in play. I don't really like this solution to the problem. Better to have actual focused casters a la Beguiler.

The prohibited schools aren't completely arbitrarily chosen. I setup Conjuration, Transmutation, and Illusion in such a way that you cannot acquire all three schools at once. While Conjuration and Transmutation obviously bar each other, Illusion lets you have that choice of which to lose. With Evocation and Enchantment being considered among the weakest, I set them up in the same fashion as conjuration/transmutation to avoid someone ending up with both the weak schools. So while the orientation of Evocation/Enchantment and Abjuration/Necromancy is somewhat arbitrary their relationship to their opposite as well as the top three schools is not.

Now, mind you, while I would prefer to see someone build and playtest a beguiler type focused spellcaster for all schools so that you could have a standard class for each of the schools of magic, I recognize that isn't going to happen for 3.5e when WotC is publishing 4e and has 5e on the way. I like the path of creating the opposing schools because it provides a framework for creating beguiler, warmage, or dread necromancer specialized casters.

[Answerer]

Dweomer of Transference
Not familiar with that one.


Invoke Magic
Eh. If we're truly high-op (op high enough that someone can actually manage to stick antimagic field on you), seems to me that Cheater of Mystra is in play. In lower op, just moving out of the field is far more effective.


Miracle
Well, rarely a problem since classes that get it don't ban and classes that ban don't get it, though I suppose on some level at high enough op you could wind up getting it on a Wizard. At that point you could probably just chain-gate infinite wishes though.

[Psyren]

Not familiar with that one.

It's used in psionics as another source of PP recharge. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/dweomerOfTransference.htm) But I wouldn't put it on an Evoker's Greatest Hits list; For one, it's available to Clerics, and for two, it's low enough that you can get it from Limited Wish while still banning Evocation.

[ericgrau]

Well, contingency is the best spell in the game, and so ridiculous that at sufficient levels of optimization there's actually a distinct power split between those who have it and those who don't.

I find it odd that people always pick one uber spell to focus on, yet it's not always the same spell. Yes, contingency is great. Wall of force is the best battlefield control in the game, or at least core; no save and very hard to remove. That's my personal favorite. Resilient sphere is the best single target true save or lose, targetting the most common low save, with the fewest immunities and it's available 2 levels earlier than the more immunity prone and fort based flesh to stone. Doubles as a way to save a life. Force cage is the best no save, just lose. The best multi-target damage spell is fireball, and fire immunity and collateral damage are easy to work around, or simply ignore the 20% of the time that it happens and switch spells. Better than most other options against 3+ foes, and ok against 2. The best way to get past the painful level 3-4 hump is flaming sphere. Magic missile is best for low hp yet hard to hit incorporeal foes and for similar reliability in general. Most of the Bigby's line makes good no save, no SR high modifier battlefield control. And there are a few others that are alright. You don't need too many, but the few spells that you need are the best of the best and too much to live without. Shadow evocation defeats the purpose of every single one of those, and paying limited wish xp all day long is hardly a good answer to anything.

[Emperor Tippy]

Honestly, I find banning any school (outside of the one for Incantatrix) to be pretty stupid. It's trading the Wizards greatest ability (versatility) for a fairly trivial power increase.

That being said, how the schools rank depends on the user and campaign.


Conjuration: Powerful at all levels, gives abilities that are generally a pain to replicate with the other schools. Never my selection for banning.

Trasmutation: Powerful at all levels, contains some of the most brokenly powerful spells in the game, great for replicating other schools. Never my selection for banning.

Illusion: It contains Simulacrum and Ice Assassin. Those two alone make this school incredibly powerful. In general it's an incredibly potent school if your DM is willing to actually let you use the school to it's potential. Rarely makes my ban list.

Necromancy: Has it's uses but I consider it the weakest school. I will ban it if necessary.

Enchantment: Incredibly powerful if you are willing to use it right and aren't constantly facing monsters immune to mind effecting spells. Much like Illusion its power depends on the DM. What you can do with a devious mind and Mind Rape is extreme.

Evocation: The best defensive school in the entire game. It sucks at dealing damage but for defense and utility it is exceptionally useful. This however requires that you know what you are doing. Very rarely makes my ban list.

Divination: Can't be banned. Take Spontaneous Divination for your 5th level feat and be happy. Incredibly useful even if your DM doesn't let you make much use of divining the future. Without Spontaneous Divination or a helpful DM it's only moderately useful.

Abjuration: Never ban. Incredibly useful at all levels.

In terms of power I rank Illusion -> Transmutation -> Conjuration -> Enchantment -> Abjuration -> Evocation -> Divination -> Necromancy.

In terms of general usefulness I rank Transmutation -> Abjuration -> Evocation -> Conjuration -> Divination -> Enchantment -> Illusion -> Necromancy.

[Emperor Tippy]

Resilient sphere is the best single target true save or lose, targetting the most common low save, with the fewest immunities and it's available 2 levels earlier than the more immunity prone and fort based flesh to stone.

It's also the best defensive spell in the game. Cast it on yourself or a party member and you instantly become immune to pretty much anything.

It's great offensively, defensively, for utility, and for battlefield control. One of my favorite spells. Granted, I love the entire Force line.

[Psyren]

You can get most of Evocation's good stuff (e.g. Resilient Sphere and Wall of Force) from Limited Wish or even shadow spells though. I wouldn't necessarily call an extra spell/day of your highest levels trivial. But it does depend on a number of factors, like availability of magic items in your campaign, encounters/day etc.

I do rank Evocation above Enchantment personally.

[Bonzai]

You know, I started to write up my take on the Schools, and what should be banned for each in regards to the OP's home brew project. Then I stopped, as I think that WotC did the right thing by leaving it up to the players to decide what to ban for their characters.

Most schools can be played in a variety of different ways, and two specialists of the same school can have drastically different styles and builds. A transmuter for example can be a polymorph melee type, a group buffer, a save or suck/die DC monkey, or a bit of all of the above. Same with the other schools. Forcing them to give up one school or the other limits the styles and builds that can be pulled off, and enforces a "correct" way to play one of these schools. That's something I'd rather not see.

Then there are schools like Divination and Abjuration which in my opinion should never be given up by any wizard, regardless of their chosen school (detect magic and dispel magic any one?). My opinion of course, but it does further complicate what the OP is trying to accomplish as stuff like that can color a person's viewpoint.

So my vote is not to worry about ranking and balancing the schools. They can't be. Not really... Leave that for the players to do themselves, according to the build that they want to play.

[Talderas]

You know, I started to write up my take on the Schools, and what should be banned for each in regards to the OP's home brew project. Then I stopped, as I think that WotC did the right thing by leaving it up to the players to decide what to ban for their characters.

I've not fully explained my project, mostly to avoid tangents regarding the other aspects of the project. I guess this is a good comment to springboard into doing so.

D&D 3.5 lacks standard classes that focus towards a school or schools of magic. As best I can tell there are three standard classes that do so (Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer). Any other topic of specialization is limited to prestige classes or mostly pointless class features based on being a specialist. With WotC publisher 4e and 5e coming I don't believe there any reasonable expectation that focused spellcasting standard classes would be officially published.

My desire is to find and create a chassis by which one could quickly create a focused specialist. It is not a wizard, it is not going to have the versatility that a wizard would have. To that end I had 3 basic goals that I want to set out when creating this chassis. The first of which has been the focal point of discussion for this thread.

1. Prohibit three schools to the specialist while making sure the specialist doesn't have access to all of the most potent schools and making sure the specialist gets the schools that make most sense.
2. Provide some mechanic that naturally blends with the chosen specialization and provides value.
3. Provide a flexible method of spell list selection. Trying to come up with seven or eight entirely new spell lists chosen from all the various sources and play testing to make sure they're effective is beyond the scope of my ability.

The third goal, I've already decided on how to handle. I intend to allow free spell selection for this homebrew with limitation on how spells are selected. It would grant four new spells on each odd level and three new spells on each even level. Two spells of each level must be chosen from the specialization while spells from any non-specialization school may not total more than one half of the spells known in the specialization. Advanced Learning would be granted every four levels to add a specialization spell that was divine if desired.

That leaves only the special mechanic based on school specialization but I can't even contemplate that until the schools are set in stone.

Mind you, this is just a chassis, and it's meant to serve as a chassis for seven different specialists in magic. If the end result hits Tier 2-3, I'm happy with it.

[ericgrau]

For that goal

Primary schools (general combat options): conjuration, evocation, transmutation
Secondary schools (special situation options): enchantment, illusion, necromancy
Terciary schools (not offensive options, only supports other options): abjuration, divination

Primary specialist: lose 1 primary and 2 secondary
Secondary specialist: lose 1 of each type
Terciary specialist: lose 2 secondary and the other terciary

Specialty Bonus: At odd levels you only get one max level spell (same spell level as a regular wizard) which must be in your specialty school.

- - - - - - - - - -

This is more about types of options than anything; what's most limiting to live without rather than what's nicest to live with. If it makes you feel better about seeing evocation on the first list you can make an evocation specialist ban the "weakest" schools within those guidelines. Wouldn't make much difference to me.

You need to be careful with splatbooks and disallow any spells that cross school boundaries to those who prohibited those schools.

Example setup below. Feel free to tweak it around. I can already see many possible fluff changes & explanations but it's your universe to fluff:

Conjuration: lose transmutation, illusion and necromancy
Evocation: lose transmutation, enchantment, and necromancy
Transmutation: lose conjuration, enchantment and illusion
Enchantment: lose evocation, necromancy and abjuration
Illusion: lose conjuration, necromancy and abjuration
Necromancy: lose transmutation, illusion and divination
Abjuration: lose illusion, enchantment and divination
Divination: lose enchantment, necromancy and abjuration

[nedz]

AD&D 2E had a similar system in some regards.

If you played a specialist then, depending upon which school you chose, one or more other schools were banned. I forget the details, but it would be easy to look up; essentially 2E had a similar ring system to which you have described.

What I did was enforce strict specialisation so that a Wizard could only cast spells in their specialisms, but, recognising that combinations are more interesting, allowed Wizards to choose more schools.

For example (using your table — I'm just using the first and last columns here):

If you chose Conjuration, then you couldn't chose Abjuration or Transmutation next.
If you next chose Illusion, then that would close down Enchantment and Necromancy.
This would mean you would have to choose Evocation and Divination next.

This would mean that this particular Wizard could only cast spells from Conjuration, Illusion, Evocation and Divination.

Other permutations are possible, and obviously you need a universal school.

{table=head]Specialization|Available|Choose One|Prohibited
Abjuration|Illusion, Transmutation|Enchantment, Evocation|Conjuration, Necromancy
Conjuration|Evocation, Necromancy| Enchantment, Illusion|Abjuration, Transmutation
Enchantment|Necromancy, Transmutation|Abjuration, Conjuration|Evocation, Illusion
Evocation|Conjuration, Illusion|Abjuration, Necromancy|Enchantment, Transmutation
Illusion|Abjuration, Evocation|Conjuration, Transmutation|Enchantment, Necromancy
Necromancy|Conjuration, Enchantment|Evocation, Transmutation|Abjuration, Illusion
Transmutation|Abjuration, Enchantment|Illusion, Necromancy|Conjuration, Evocation
[/table]

[Talderas]

AD&D 2E had a similar system in some regards.

If you played a specialist then, depending upon which school you chose, one or more other schools were banned. I forget the details, but it would be easy to look up; essentially 2E had a similar ring system to which you have described.

I am aware of it and that served as the basis for the design. I can't find my 2E books to reference.

[nedz]

Here you go

Wizard Specialist Schools [2E]
{table=head]School|Opposing Schools
Abjuration|Alteration and Illusion
Conjuration|Divination and Evocation
Divination|Conjuration
Enchantment|Evocation and Necromancy
Illusion|Necromancy, Evocation and Abjuration
Evocation|Enchantment and Conjuration
Necromancy|Illusion and Enchantment
Alteration|Abjuration and Necromancy
[/table]

There were also four more schools — the elemental schools — which featured in ToM. Their oppositions were obvious. The elemental schools were considerable weaker.

[Bonzai]

I've not fully explained my project, mostly to avoid tangents regarding the other aspects of the project. I guess this is a good comment to springboard into doing so.

D&D 3.5 lacks standard classes that focus towards a school or schools of magic. As best I can tell there are three standard classes that do so (Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer). Any other topic of specialization is limited to prestige classes or mostly pointless class features based on being a specialist. With WotC publisher 4e and 5e coming I don't believe there any reasonable expectation that focused spellcasting standard classes would be officially published.

My desire is to find and create a chassis by which one could quickly create a focused specialist. It is not a wizard, it is not going to have the versatility that a wizard would have. To that end I had 3 basic goals that I want to set out when creating this chassis. The first of which has been the focal point of discussion for this thread.

1. Prohibit three schools to the specialist while making sure the specialist doesn't have access to all of the most potent schools and making sure the specialist gets the schools that make most sense.
2. Provide some mechanic that naturally blends with the chosen specialization and provides value.
3. Provide a flexible method of spell list selection. Trying to come up with seven or eight entirely new spell lists chosen from all the various sources and play testing to make sure they're effective is beyond the scope of my ability.

The third goal, I've already decided on how to handle. I intend to allow free spell selection for this homebrew with limitation on how spells are selected. It would grant four new spells on each odd level and three new spells on each even level. Two spells of each level must be chosen from the specialization while spells from any non-specialization school may not total more than one half of the spells known in the specialization. Advanced Learning would be granted every four levels to add a specialization spell that was divine if desired.

That leaves only the special mechanic based on school specialization but I can't even contemplate that until the schools are set in stone.

Mind you, this is just a chassis, and it's meant to serve as a chassis for seven different specialists in magic. If the end result hits Tier 2-3, I'm happy with it.

Ah... gotchya. Then I would take it a step further and figure out a specific archetypal role that they are fullfilling. For Example, the Warmage is more or less a direct damage blaster. Dread Necromancers are condensed stereo typical necromancer. Beguilers are the sneaky battle field control types. So I would ask what Archetypal casters are left?

Off hand the ones that come to mind are summoners and buffers (thining warweavers and spell mantle type things). Use the Warmage/Dreadnecro/Beguiler chassis, craft a small list of spells that go with their theme regardless of school or even source (arcane/divine), along with mandatory utility spells (like dispel magic). Then come up with class features that help them do their job.