[D&D 3.5 PrC] Three-fold Theurge [PEACH]

[Xuldarinar]

After looking at various classes, and the mystic theurge I had this idea. A class that would advance three classes instead of two. I tried to balance it but I could use advice. So please, evaluate it and critique it.

Three-Fold Theurge

HitDie: D4

Prerequisites
Skills: Any three of the following; Knowledge (any, separate) 6, Martial Lore 6, Truespeak 6
Special: Any three of the following; able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, able to cast 2nd-level divine spells, able to manifest 2nd-level powers, able to use 2nd-level Maneuvers, Able to summon 2nd-level vestiges, able to use 2nd-level mysteries, able to use 2nd-level infusions, able to use utterances of the lexicon of the crafted tool.

Class Skills
The three-fold the urge's class skill list is as follows: Concentration, Knowledge (Associated with classes used to qualify. [Arcane = Arcana, Divine = religion, ect.]), Martial Lore (If a maneuvers were used for entry), Psycraft (if Psionics were used for entry), Spellcraft (If one of the classes uses it), Truespeak (If true namer was used for entry), Use Magic Device (If artificer was used for entry), Use Psionic Device (If psionic artificer was used for entry)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

THE THREE-FOLD THEURGE
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+0|Three Fold Advancement +1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0|Three Fold Advancement +1

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+1|Three Fold Advancement +1

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|Three Fold Advancement +1

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+1|Three Fold Advancement +1

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|Three Fold Advancement +1

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+2|Three Fold Advancement +1

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+2|Three Fold Advancement +1

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+3|Three Fold Advancement +1

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+3|Three Fold Advancement +1 [/table]

Class Features
All of the following are features of the Three-fold Theurge prestige class
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Three-fold Theurges gain no proficiencies in weapons or armor

Three Fold Advancement: Each level you take in three-fold theurge, you advance the three classes you used to qualify for this class; as if advanced by another 'theurgic' class. You do not acquire any other benefit from this. For instance, a Wizard/Archivist/Erudite who enters this class would advance arcane and divine casting, and manifesting. They would not however advance dark knowledge, acquire bonus feats, so on.

[Siosilvar]

My first instinct is "no way, three advancements in one level is far too much." But then I thought about it, and even with the earliest entry I can think of (Wizard 1/Cleric 1/ToB Class 2 with early entry shenanigans for 2nd level spells), you're still 3 levels behind in the caster classes, and you don't get anything more from having three progressions than two, since you only have so many actions to go around.

Having a crapton of stuff available is nice, but since casters are so versatile in the first place, more lower-level spells isn't particularly more useful than a few higher-level slots. Which is really just a roundabout way of saying that this has the same issues as Mystic Theurge in an optimization environment.

Aside from that, I'm not seeing particularly many characters that would use this class. But it's a PrC, so I suppose that's really to be expected.

[Xuldarinar]

My first instinct is "no way, three advancements in one level is far too much." But then I thought about it, and even with the earliest entry I can think of (Wizard 1/Cleric 1/ToB Class 2 with early entry shenanigans for 2nd level spells), you're still 3 levels behind in the caster classes, and you don't get anything more from having three progressions than two, since you only have so many actions to go around.

Having a crapton of stuff available is nice, but since casters are so versatile in the first place, more lower-level spells isn't particularly more useful than a few higher-level slots. Which is really just a roundabout way of saying that this has the same issues as Mystic Theurge in an optimization environment.

Aside from that, I'm not seeing particularly many characters that would use this class. But it's a PrC, so I suppose that's really to be expected.


Well, that instinct is to be expected. I thought of it too, then ignored it to make this. This promotes even further diversity, which some would enjoy and others wouldn't, but sacrifices a bit more fire power and defense than the norm. Its in some ways more thematic than practical, but if someone can't stand missing out on 9th level spells there are still shenanigans, like the ur-priest.

[RadicalTurnip]

This may sound like a strange nitpick, but the skill list having all of the skills available that each class has seems too handy for the class that "gives up everything in order to advance three things at once". Perhaps something like "A Three-fold Theurge knows the knowledge skills associated with their class (Knowledge Arcana for Arcane casting, Knowledge Religion for Divine casters, etc.) and the core skill for each class (psicraft for manifesters, Naming for Binders etc). Would that make sense?

Edit: And a nitpick that's probably an old hat by now, but "Mystic Theurge" was a reference to a person that is both "Magical" and "Religious" Theurge is defined as "One who works miracles, or persuades a god or spirit to perform a supernatural work." not...this "blend" definition that D&D has cultivated since the PHB.

[Xuldarinar]

This may sound like a strange nitpick, but the skill list having all of the skills available that each class has seems too handy for the class that "gives up everything in order to advance three things at once". Perhaps something like "A Three-fold Theurge knows the knowledge skills associated with their class (Knowledge Arcana for Arcane casting, Knowledge Religion for Divine casters, etc.) and the core skill for each class (psicraft for manifesters, Naming for Binders etc). Would that make sense?

Edit: And a nitpick that's probably an old hat by now, but "Mystic Theurge" was a reference to a person that is both "Magical" and "Religious" Theurge is defined as "One who works miracles, or persuades a god or spirit to perform a supernatural work." not...this "blend" definition that D&D has cultivated since the PHB.

You are right on both counts, thank you. The skill list thing was simply laziness on my part. That I will be correcting shortly. Its one of the very reasons I wanted input.

The later, while that is true we find that the eldritch theurge is for arcane/warlock. So the definition in game carries, though not entirely accurate. A miracle worker would be assumed divine but... what ever. For the name of the class, we can look at it as follows: Three-fold = Times three, Theurge = one who works miracles. Therefore we could read it as one who works in three miracles. Miracles being magic, it would then be one who works in three magics, which for the most part holds true for this class.

Edit: I've made the change.

[RadicalTurnip]

The later, while that is true we find that the eldritch theurge is for arcane/warlock. So the definition in game carries, though not entirely accurate. A miracle worker would be assumed divine but... what ever. For the name of the class, we can look at it as follows: Three-fold = Times three, Theurge = one who works miracles. Therefore we could read it as one who works in three miracles. Miracles being magic, it would then be one who works in three magics, which for the most part holds true for this class.


Excellent point. It's just something that's annoyed me about even the later D&D supplements. Thrice miracle worker actually makes it sound really cool, though :smallsmile: