[PF]How should I calculate CR on encounter with a lots of minions and a boss?

[neochaos]

Hello, fellow forum users.
I'm currently running a level 6 Pathfinder campaign, and I'm planning to make an CR 6~7 encounter with a demon cult - lots of minions (level 1 commoners I think?) and one boss, maybe cleric or sorcerer. The problem is, I don't know how to calculate e encounter CR. Say, If I use just 12 commoners with only a stone in their hands, is it already a CR 7 encounter? and CR goes skyrocket if I add, say, ECL 6 boss? I'm not sure how to give players a balanced emcounter in a case like this... Could you give me some guidance about caulculating CR & giving balanced encounter in a case like this?

Thank you very much.

[Andreaz]

It gets fuzzy at that point. If your group is optimized to deal with tons of mooks, adding tens of them won't have much impact. If they're SoD spammers and uberchargers, then the boss won't matter half as much.


What's the group like?

[the clumsy bard]

Ok first and foremost check out here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering)

Now to address the encounter itself.

First how big is your party of assuming level 6 characters?

Second, do you want it to be an encounter that is average, challenging or worse?

If you are going with CR 6 your XP budget is 2400.

A commoner level 1 is CR 1/3 (135 XP)

A level 6 cleric of bla would be CR 5 by himself ( 1600 XP)

Therefore with the cleric and a bunch of commoners with rocks would be 6-8 commoners with the cleric himself all depending on how much you wanna challenge the characters of course.

[neochaos]

The party consists of 2 fighters, a wizard, and a cleric. All are well built. The encounter would be gimmicky, with naked commoners equipped with a dagger/rock (gonna use the same statistics for damage purpose), and a covenmaster npc, level-appropiately equipped. I want it to be somewhat average difficulty.

[neochaos]

I'm pretty sure the commoners gonna give no damage whatsoever to party, and slaughgtered within few rounds - but take enough time for the covenmaster to go in his summoning ritual (I'm not going to make him actually "finnish" in time. Again, just a gimmick - build some kind of tension, short-on-time feeling.) And they fight the covenmaster after they butcher commoners.

[the clumsy bard]

I would say they won't maybe on an errant 20 roll on a d20, but otherwise I would just say they are in the way of the party... although bunch of commoners (if they are innocent) provide a conundrum for the party. Wall of bodies... kill without remorse or suffer consequences for murdering innocents

[Andreaz]

As neochaos said. Most of them will be more useful barring the way for the round and/or soaking up spells then truly fighting. Make a LOT of them, and calculate their CR as whatever group of creatures 1/20th of their number would do 1d4+str damage/round.

[the clumsy bard]

If the cleric is not actually participating it is not much of a challenge. I might add a mid boss like NPC or NPCs on top of the cleric then. His right hand man or loyal body guards etc.

A point of reference being that 6 x level 2 NPCs (with pc class levels and not NPC classes) would be about a CR6 encounter level.

[neochaos]

Hmm. Would it be viable if I make it like 2 consecutive encounters? Like, 6-8 commoners+level 4ish pc class npc (right hand man as suggested) encounter as step 1, and level 6ish cleric encounter as step two, making it two CR6 encounters.

But I still wonder what would the CR be if the cleric just jumps in with the commoners....

[neochaos]

Nevermind me on that last question. i just realized that I can calculate it from CR appropiate XP stock. Thank you!

[stack]

As already said, the commoners are basically difficult terrain, not even worth XP. Kind of like caltrops that walk around. Figure out the challenge for the real villains, then tweak it up slightly to account for their 'terrain advantage'.

[CaladanMoonblad]

I use this CR calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/). You may find it useful as a base instead of doing it by hand.