Do you ban any PrC's?

[danzibr]

For me whenever I DM I ban Incantatrix, Shadowcraft Mage, Ur-Priest, Entropomancer and Thrallherd.

Yours?

[Severance28]

Don't forget about initiate of the sevenfold veil.:smalltongue:

[Lupus753]

Have any of your players heard of Planar Shepherd? That sounds like something that no DM in their right mind would allow.

[darksolitaire]

The Dveomerkeeper and Planer Shepard are also something I don't want to see, but I aim to check entire builds instead of just banning classes.

Not to drag this off topic, but...Entropomancer?

Edit: as in, that doesn't really tingle my game-breaker senses.

[Karnith]

I usually ban Ur-Priest and the other fast-advancement classes (e.g. Blighter, Apostle of Peace, Beholder Mage) on principle, but other than that I don't make a habit of banning prestige classes. I try to focus more on particular builds than on classes in general.

On a related note, while I don't ban Red Wizards or Hathrans, I also don't allow them to use circle magic, which in some (well, one) of my players' minds is about the same as banning them.

EDIT: Oh, right, thrallherd. It hasn't come up in my games, but I definitely wouldn't let a player take levels in Leadership: the Class.

[DownwardSpiral]

I usually ban Ur-Priest and the other fast-advancement classes (e.g. Blighter, Apostle of Peace, Beholder Mage) on

I dont really get why you'd ban blighter. It's a fast advancement class because you have to forsake your druid casting to take it. If it wasn't fast advancement you'd never catch up.

Apostle of peace isn't....that bad. You're supposed to be peaceful with it. So getting super buffs or non-lethal effects is usually alright. Key word usually.

Beholder mage I agree with, but it should be out of the question because you shouldn't be able to take it as a pc. Key word shouldn't.

ur-priest is the only one I'd really agree with because there's so many ways to get early entry and giving up clericical-ness is alright because you're getting it back quicker.

[Karnith]

I dont really get why you'd ban blighter. It's a fast advancement class because you have to forsake your druid casting to take it. If it wasn't fast advancement you'd never catch up.

Apostle of peace isn't....that bad. You're supposed to be peaceful with it. So getting super buffs or non-lethal effects is usually alright. Key word usually.

Beholder mage I agree with, but it should be out of the question because you shouldn't be able to take it as a pc. Key word shouldn't.

ur-priest is the only one I'd really agree with because there's so many ways to get early entry and giving up clericical-ness is alright because you're getting it back quicker.
It's actually as much about making things easier for me as a DM as for limiting power levels (hence the "on principle" part). I ban fast advancement classes because they're basically crippled at low levels (boy, that first level in Ur-Priest sure is great, isn't it? And how about the first level in Apostle of Peace?), and planning encounters/adventures for my players when they're primary spellcasters and only have first-level spells at 6th level (or something) is not very fun for me or them. And then, of course, they tend to get stupid at higher levels. Fast-progression spellcasters are, in my mind, basically the poster-children for DM headaches.

[Fouredged Sword]

I generaly allow fast advancement classes, but not if thy advance your casting to a higher spell level than a wizard of your HD. This solves many issues with them.

Yes you can go urpriest, but only if it wouldn't push your casting above the level of a wizard. You have to take the class ether late in your build or with dips and pauses to slow your advancement.

[Blarmb]

I don't Blacklist, I Whitelist. I guess that qualifies as a "Yes, Everything"? Sort of.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I only ban ones that has serious RP connotations. The thralls, the disciples, apostle of peace. The Vermin Lord loses their 10th level feature for Carpet of Doom. My deal with any players use that if I ban a PrC, they can override my ban by mutual agreement. Dumb question, but why ban Beholder Mage? You have to be a beholder to get in.

[Xervous]

way to quickly get into beholder mage

1. Be an Elan with the appropriate intelligence (17 i think?)
2. buy one casting of polymorph any object
3. Become a beholder permanently
4. go about entering PrC

on a side note, that's just a small sliver of why PAO is broken

[ZamielVanWeber]

PAO represents a giant gap in my memory. Probably because it is ridiculous... Thank you.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Anything non-core is automatically off the list for my group. So I guess... [EDIT: Nearly [/EDIT] all prestige classes are effectively banned because we limit what is available. This helps to mitigate the crazy optimizations that are so popular on these forums.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Nope. The rules of optimization in my group are Rule #1: Don't be a **** and Rule #2: Anything you can do, the NPCs can do, so it's the PCs who decide the power level of the game rather than any banning on my part.

If the party decides for one game to build a party consisting of an acolyte of the skin, a tactical soldier, a combat medic, a pure psion, and a rage mage (which has actually happened before), they'll run into similar opposition (in that case the baddies were a pure dragonfire adept and a blighter). If the party decides to instead build a party consisting of an initiate of the sevenfold veil, an anima mage, a disciple of Dispater, a Telflammar shadowlord, and a conjurer/ur-priest/mystic theurge (also an actual example), they'll run into similar opposition (in that case an incantatrix/Red Wizard and a tainted scholar).

[Karnith]

Anything non-core is automatically off the list for my group. So I guess... all prestige classes are effectively banned because we limit what is available. This helps to mitigate the crazy optimizations that are so popular on these forums.
So do you allow the DMG prestige classes? Because those are pretty tame (Red Wizard excepted) and in core.

EDIT: Also, obligatory statements about "why can't melee have nice things?" and "core wizard 20 is the most broken thing."

[CaladanMoonblad]

So do you allow the DMG prestige classes? Because those are pretty tame (Red Wizard excepted) and in core.

The core prestige classes are fine. I've edited my above with a "nearly".


EDIT Update: Melee do have nice things. The dwarf fighter in our game is generally the heaviest damage dealer even at 10-12 and serves as one of two core leaders. The others include druid (co-leader), cleric/wizard/mystic theurge, rogue/ranger, ranger/wizard, fighter/wizard/eldritch knight, paladin... we even allow Leadership (the eldritch knight has a kobold apprentice, and the mystic theurge has a cleric acolyte, the paladin has a pegasus mount/cohort, etc.)

There are in game ways that we limit casters (levels 1-3 are always available in a metropolitan area, levels 4-9 requires in depth RPG and huge gather information checks to track down a teacher/spellbook/library).

[tadkins]

Wait a sec...is Disciple of Dispater actually an OP PrC?

[ZamielVanWeber]

It is fairly strong by itself. Combined with Lightning Laces and Adaptability weapons it is nightmarishly broken.

[Yora]

I don't allow any PrCs. But playing in the 1 to 5 range, this never really becomes an issue.

[Synovia]

Anything non-core is automatically off the list for my group. So I guess... [EDIT: Nearly [/EDIT] all prestige classes are effectively banned because we limit what is available. This helps to mitigate the crazy optimizations that are so popular on these forums.

I'm surprised at this. Almost all of the really bad stuff is in Core.

[ArcturusV]

Kind of? I mean I tend to take the old view of PrCs before WotC effectively surrendered on it. To get into a PrC you have to qualify ICily for it as well in some way. I don't outright "Ban" necessarily but when you force some IC qualifications beyond "I hit level 5, I'm taking..." they tend to limit themselves a bit more often, and you don't see all those dips into 6 different prestige classes, etc. So I use PrCs less as building blocks for PCs in my games and more as IC rewards instead.

Edit: You mean "Most of the really broken SPELLS are in core", right Synovia?

[Fates]

Anything non-core is automatically off the list for my group. So I guess... [EDIT: Nearly [/EDIT] all prestige classes are effectively banned because we limit what is available. This helps to mitigate the crazy optimizations that are so popular on these forums.

I have nothing against an all-core game, but the other books do offer great variety, only a fraction of which leads to utter madness optimization-wise. Besides, as was pointed out, much about the core game is broken as well.

As far as DMG PrC's go, a few of them are actually pretty good. I'm a big fan or Archmage, Lorekeeper's alright, Arcane Trickster can be fun to play with, and Red Wizard...well, it's totally broken and I don't like it.

[Greenish]

It is fairly strong by itself. Combined with Lightning Laces and Adaptability weapons it is nightmarishly broken.Lightning Maces and Aptitude weapons.

[Fates]

Lightning Maces and Aptitude weapons.

Now now, was that really necessary? I think the former was clearly a typo, and the second may have been as well.

[Greenish]

Now now, was that really necessary?Yes, in case someone not familiar with the trick wants to look it up.

[Fates]

Yes, in case someone not familiar with the trick wants to look it up.

Fair enough, apologies for my rashness.

[danzibr]

It is fairly strong by itself. Combined with Lightning Laces and Adaptability weapons it is nightmarishly broken.

Lightning Maces and Aptitude weapons.

Now now, was that really necessary? I think the former was clearly a typo, and the second may have been as well.
I was starting to have interesting ideas with lightning lace...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zBY3DOohOU8/TzUkdfWPlRI/AAAAAAAAAbs/XG6glTIXJf0/s1600/image1xxl-802x1024.jpg
+
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/lightning-gallery-18.jpg
=???

[Asteron]

Yes, in case someone not familiar with the trick wants to look it up, and have their DM throw a book at their head.

Fixed it for you...

[Eldonauran]

Prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM. We encourage you, as the DM, to tightly limit the prestige classes available in your campaign.

As prestige classes are purely optional and always under DM purview (read: have to be approved of), I have no reason to ban any prestige classes. Players can not take them without my approval, even if they meet the requirements.

Now, to keep in spirit with the thread, I do frown upon certain prestige classes being taken but I do not restrict players from doing so. They simply have to earn the opportunity.

[Man on Fire]

All of them.
All my players are new to Pathfinder and I wanted to simplify making characters. And in PF PrCs are pretty useless anyway.

[molten_dragon]

There are several I don't allow, most of which are already mentioned. Generally I'll ban a prestige class either because it's horribly overpowered (ur-priest, beholder mage, planar shepherd, tainted scholar/sorcerer, etc.). Others get banned because they don't fit the kind of game I run. Apostle of peace is a good example of that. It doesn't fit my style of DMing, and encourages you to try and force other players to behave in a certain way, which I would never approve of.

[TechanMac]

I don't ban anything upfront. If a player says they want to their character to pursue a prestige class I review it with them, decide if it makes sense and go from there. Most of the "broken" ones are really just kind of silly and overly specific anyways and would not fit into any world that I've ever DM'ed, so it's usually not a problem.