Vow of Peace: RAW, ROI or stinky cheese?

[Confused Dad]

One of my players, with Vow of Peace (any manufactured weapon that strikes you must immediately make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level + your CON modifier) or shatter harmlessly against your skin), triggers a trap and is struck by a falling falling portcullis. He argues that since the portcullis is obviously a manufactured object, and I am rolling an attack vs his AC, that the portcullis will likely shatter without doing damage to him.

RAW, ROI or stinky cheese?

[Alaris]

One of my players, with Vow of Peace (any manufactured weapon that strikes you must immediately make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level + your CON modifier) or shatter harmlessly against your skin), triggers a trap and is struck by a falling falling portcullis. He argues that since the portcullis is obviously a manufactured object, and I am rolling an attack vs his AC, that the portcullis will likely shatter without doing damage to him.

RAW, ROI or stinky cheese?

Was the item manufactured to deal damage? Since it is a trap, it was likely manufactured to deal damage, and could be construed as a "Manufactured Weapon." The argument could be made.

However, I'd say if the Portcullus was not crafted to hit or harm someone... then the argument could be made in the other direction.

Really, DM's call.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Normally when I see a portcullis style trap, it's designed to fall far enough away from the trigger that there's little way to duck out before it falls. This means it's not going to damage adventurers all that much, which is fine; it's designed to, well, trap some of them. In this case if someone just so happens to be under the portcullis as it falls, it's a falling object and not a weapon.

If the portcullis is actually designed to fall on the the person that sprung the trap, however, then it's a weapon.

[Psyren]

It makes an attack roll vs. his AC, therefore it's a weapon.

[TypoNinja]

Unfortunately for your player he's hosed. By this or any trap.


If a creature strikes you with a manufactured weapon, the weapon must immediately make a successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + one-half your character level + your Con modifier) or shatter against your skin, leaving you unharmed.

Text of the feat specifies a creature striking him with a manufactured weapon.

His AC bonuses still apply, but the portcullis is not in danger of shattering on his noggin.

[molten_dragon]

By RAI the player's interpretation might work.

By RAW it does not both because of the reasons that TypoNinja pointed out, and because a portcullis is not a weapon.

[gomipile]

By RAI the player's interpretation might work.

By RAW it does not both because of the reasons that TypoNinja pointed out, and because a portcullis is not a weapon.

I should make a Hulking Hurler whose preferred throwing weapons are portcullises, just to spite you.

[Joe the Rat]

Since it is not wielded by a creature, no. Since it is a manufactured barrier, no. Otherwise he'd be shattering closing doors by sticking his body in the way. Or breaking down walls by being thrown into them.

[Answerer]

You should tell him to retire the character and stop looking at the atrocity that is Book of Exalted Deeds. Vow of Peace is an incredibly broken feat, not because of its power, but because it literally breaks almost all of the expectations of the game and screws with other players' characters in an unreasonable way. Book of Exalted Deeds is a terribly-written book, with horribly underpowered options, horribly overpowered options, and fluff that ranges from the awful to the outright insulting. It has almost no redeeming qualities, and is one of only three books I'd consider outright banning in 3.5 (the others being Complete Psionics and Savage Species, but I don't actually ban any of them wholesale because they do have a few things worth using – I'm just very careful about what things players use from those books).

Also, "ROI" stands for "return on investment," I think you probably meant "RAI," "rules as intended." Of course, claims of "RAI" are almost always pure BS, since no one knows what they intended except the authors themselves, unless they've commented on their work outside the books (which they have only done in a very few cases).

[molten_dragon]

I should make a Hulking Hurler whose preferred throwing weapons are portcullises, just to spite you.

Well, considering the ability that lets you do that is called 'really throw anything' I still don't think that makes a portcullis a weapon. You can use it as an improvised weapon, but that doesn't make it a weapon, since it has no weapon stats (that I know of) anywhere in 3.5 or PF.

And since it wasn't being wielded by a creature in the OP it's irrelevant anyway.